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Old 12-04-2012, 05:11 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazygyrl View Post
congrats, mizzcase!!

i am up a bit today. :/ my body just doesn't like salty foods. i was a bit saltier again yesterday and was up again. second time this has happened. so will keep that salty food in check.

Yup, I know its been said people in NK need more salt since the kidneys (or liver, can't remember, please set me straight red) metabolizes sodium differently. But I think the .2 bump up on the scale yesterday had something to do with the cup of salt (aka bouillon) I drank on Sunday.

Don't sweat it
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:19 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61 View Post
Hi to all!
Tablis, I get the same tingling numbness, and it loves to come right around 2am. Mine are when I pinch a nerve that travels down my right shoulder, ticks off the arm, which somehow lets the right leg and foot in on it too! I simply drag to the side of the bed, hang the arm off the side, and all is good in five minutes. Have you changed positions during sleep? Mine happens when I am on the right side.
So mines on the left and it happens mostly at night (I prefer to sleep on the left but I switch off during the night). It also happens if I'm driving for a long time. The funny thing is that after I mentioned it here yesterday, I realized that I hadn't had it the night before... and I didn't have it last night either.
It had kind of become a way of life since it was going on for so long.

So, I'm wondering if it has something to do with all the WOE changes.
I'm on the 6th wk of NK, during that time I started taking magesium and I'm now up to 600 mgs/day, I also upped my Vit D to 3000 iu (i had been taking 400 iu that did nothing - my level was a whopping 8! yikes) and upped Vit C to 1000. So maybe one or all of these things has made a difference!
Thanks everyone for the recommendations!

Last edited by tablis; 12-04-2012 at 05:20 AM..
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:24 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by wildflower View Post
Yea, the 40 lbs was with lowering carbs. Pretty much cut out all bread, pastas and potatoes and probably moving a whole bunch more than I had for a long time!!
Hmmm. It sounds to me like NK will be perfect for you since the more casual LC approach dropped 40 pounds of fat.

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Old 12-04-2012, 05:30 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by TerriMM View Post
be 1700-1900, fat 78-86%.
Terri, be careful if your fat macro edges up above about 82%. Either you are low on protein or high on calories or both (using 1.5g/kg protein).

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Old 12-04-2012, 05:37 AM   #245
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Morning all almost there! Down to 164.6 this morning,I was so busy yesterday did not eat enough protein.i had 3 eggs and a can sardines had to go to a meeting at resturant .did not eat there cause ever time I eat out I gain.did not get home until 9 and that was to late for me to eat,ill do better today!
Cheryl hubby sounds funny,we're did you eat!
Oceania food looks great,
Everyone seems to be doing great too
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:16 AM   #246
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I still haven't caught up on all the action on this thread over the weekend but I just wanted to report that is wk 6 day 2 for me and I went down a bit more for a total of 7lbs! I guess it really is working. I've been stalled for so long that I kept thinking this can't be real loss, it has to be a lava lamp phenomenon... but by 7 lbs I think some of this has to be real.

Thanks everyone for all the help and support!
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:17 AM   #247
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Morning - same on the scale this morning so today will make it a priority to eat all my protein, up my fats and stay low on carbs. I actually did well on carbs yesterday but needed a bit more protein and lots more fats. Fat bombs are on the make menu today when I get home from Xmas shopping for the grandkids!

Hope everyone has a great day!

BTW, I am SOOOO enjoying this thread -- you guys are the bomb! (fat bombs, get it)

Arlene

PS: Red, thanks for the advice on patience!

Last edited by wildflower; 12-04-2012 at 06:20 AM..
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:04 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by mizzcase View Post
Yup, I know its been said people in NK need more salt since the kidneys (or liver, can't remember, please set me straight red) metabolizes sodium differently. But I think the .2 bump up on the scale yesterday had something to do with the cup of salt (aka bouillon) I drank on Sunday.

Don't sweat it
I couldn't remember off the top of my head so I looked it up. I'm so glad you asked because it is so interesting and very, very important.

Page 19 or location 458

"Salt deprivation leads to lightheadedness, fatigue, headache, and malaise."

Here is the part you are talking about, on page 20 or location 476: "High carbohydrate diets make the kidneys retain salt, whereas a low carbohydrate intake increases sodium excretion by the kidney (called 'the natriuresis of fasting')."

Another quote from that chapter's summary:

"3. Third, the body's metabolism of salt is uniquely different when one is adapted to a low carbohydrate diet. Salt and water are more efficiently excreted, which is a good thing as long as you maintain an adequate minimum sodium intake. Ignore this lesson and you are likely to suffer the completely avoidable problems of headache, fatigue, weakness, and constipation"

That is very interesting. If you are having a problem with regularity you could benefit from a close examination of your sodium intake.

Page 40 has more salty goodness. He remarks that adding 1 to 2 cups of bullion to your routine adds about 1-2 grams of sodium and being keto-adapted ensures that the salt moves right on through you.

Interesting. I think that he is saying that once you are keto-adapted you will not experience water retention from 'excess' salt. He says that 5 grams of sodium a day is about right for a keto-adapted person and that is a whole lot of sodium and a vast amount of table salt (which is not pure sodium).

That is not to say that water retention is imaginary, particularly in you girls, but it does seem to say that it is not sodium related.

On page 150 or location 2650, Phinney shows low sodium to be the culprit behind abnormal potassium sacrifice. "At some point, when confronted with this low sodium intake plus carbohydrate restriction, most people's defense mechanisms can't maintain normal mineral balances. So the body's next level of defense is for the adrenal gland to secrete the hormone aldosterone, which makes kidney tubular cells excrete potassium in order to conserve sodium. That is, the body wastes some of its intracellular potassium in order to cling to whatever sodium it can. However unless there is copious potassium coming in from the diet, this excess urinary potassium comes from the body's potassium pool inside cells. Two things then happen. First, nerve and muscles cells don't work well, leading to cardia dysrhythmias and muscle cramps. Second, because potassium is an obligate component of lean tissue, the body starts losing muscle even if there's plenty of protein in the diet"


Wow!!! So that fluttery heartbeat you experience is from a potassium deficiency brought about by too little sodium!! Dang.

And...Wow!!! So eat low sodium LC at your LBM's peril! That is very interesting too because it implies that you'd lose LBM without necessarily experiencing cramping.

This has an interesting implication.. Losing LBM has an impact on caloric requirements too. Less LBM means less calories burned because muscle mass burns calories just by being there. So you gradually lose LBM and your actual calorie needs diminish too. And ... you stall.

Page 150, and elsewhere, is where he says a total of 5 grams of sodium for an LC'r in some combination of food and added sodium (broth, bullion, etc).

Last edited by reddarin; 12-04-2012 at 07:09 AM.. Reason: clarification about LBM
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:10 AM   #249
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so, why, red, have i had a gain everytime i eat higher sodium foods? that's the only time i had gains.

terri and i were talking and she asked if the TYPE of salt makes a difference. adding pure seat salt as opposed processed salty foods...say summer sausage?
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:18 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by dazygyrl View Post
so, why, red, have i had a gain everytime i eat higher sodium foods? that's the only time i had gains.

terri and i were talking and she asked if the TYPE of salt makes a difference. adding pure seat salt as opposed processed salty foods...say summer sausage?
It isn't impossible that your body is an exception for some reason.

But I think if you carefully look at everything you might find that sodium is only a symptom of the real reason for the gain. Like, there is some other commonality that accompanies the bump on the scale which would absolve or partially absolve sodium.

In fact, Terri may be on to something. Sodium is sodium, no doubt about that, but the source of the sodium, the vessel carrying it, could have a huge impact on your BG, BS and insulin which could account for the bump apart from the sodium itself.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:20 AM   #251
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If I missed replying to anyone let me know
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:21 AM   #252
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Hey Blonde! Yea on the loss! 1.4 sounds huge to me! We are all hit with the head bugs! Burny throat, not a good sign. Get the D3 and Vit C up! I take zinc too, as soon as the first tickle happens. Usually gone in 24.

Thanks SouthernGirl! I actually went out a week or so ago and bought D-3 2000 and Magnesium 500 and have been taking them everyday with a Multi. This is huge for me, I don't do vitamins well, I just forget to take them, but I'm being diligent. I still feel stuffed up this morning but no fever or anything. You are so good at responding to everyone. I don't know how you do it, I'm always three pages behind.

Hello and Good Morning ALL! My numbers for yesterday:

Cals: 1735 (1841)
Fat 137 (198)
Pro: 107 (92)
Carbs: 16.8

I'm posting them here for awhile since I'm so new the NK.

Oceana: Great Food Pics!
Wildflower and DOT:
Buffy: The tortilla roll-ups would have sent me reeling to the next wheat item. It is my biggest trigger food. I envy your ability to take it leave it.
RED: What can I say? You are the Guru. Thanks for such a great thread. Lucky for me, I never smoked in my car. However I had to make my back patio off limits for three weeks or so...apparently I smoked there a lot!

It was all I could do to stay off the scale this morning. I'm waiting until Thursday (at the earliest).

Please forgive me, I'm not good at following up with everyone at once.

Congrats to the losses!!!
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:23 AM   #253
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You know, that thing about losing LBM because of the sodium and potassium dynamic has another implication.

If you are thinking you are protected because you exercise, It makes the type of exercise you are doing inordinately important. If it isn't resistance, if it isn't building muscle mass, then you are not treading water, you are in the same leaky boat as the non-exercisers only you'll be more baffled than us couch potatoes
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:33 AM   #254
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I don't do vitamins well, I just forget to take them
Get one of them week long pill-minders that are marked S/M/T/W/T/F/S. It is a life saver. You can see at a glance if you've taken your assortment for the day.

I find that I still need to look occasionally or that I'd plumb forgot until I spy the strip and realize I still hadn't had mine yet.

Numbers look good

Is this "Fat 137 (198)" a typo? I can't figure out the 198 compared to the ~1800ish goal calories. Just want to make sure I don't have an error in my spreadsheet.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:33 AM   #255
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Good morning Becky
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:41 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
I couldn't remember off the top of my head so I looked it up. I'm so glad you asked because it is so interesting and very, very important.

Page 19 or location 458

"Salt deprivation leads to lightheadedness, fatigue, headache, and malaise."

Here is the part you are talking about, on page 20 or location 476: "High carbohydrate diets make the kidneys retain salt, whereas a low carbohydrate intake increases sodium excretion by the kidney (called 'the natriuresis of fasting')."

Another quote from that chapter's summary:

"3. Third, the body's metabolism of salt is uniquely different when one is adapted to a low carbohydrate diet. Salt and water are more efficiently excreted, which is a good thing as long as you maintain an adequate minimum sodium intake. Ignore this lesson and you are likely to suffer the completely avoidable problems of headache, fatigue, weakness, and constipation"

That is very interesting. If you are having a problem with regularity you could benefit from a close examination of your sodium intake.

Page 40 has more salty goodness. He remarks that adding 1 to 2 cups of bullion to your routine adds about 1-2 grams of sodium and being keto-adapted ensures that the salt moves right on through you.

Interesting. I think that he is saying that once you are keto-adapted you will not experience water retention from 'excess' salt. He says that 5 grams of sodium a day is about right for a keto-adapted person and that is a whole lot of sodium and a vast amount of table salt (which is not pure sodium).

That is not to say that water retention is imaginary, particularly in you girls, but it does seem to say that it is not sodium related.

On page 150 or location 2650, Phinney shows low sodium to be the culprit behind abnormal potassium sacrifice. "At some point, when confronted with this low sodium intake plus carbohydrate restriction, most people's defense mechanisms can't maintain normal mineral balances. So the body's next level of defense is for the adrenal gland to secrete the hormone aldosterone, which makes kidney tubular cells excrete potassium in order to conserve sodium. That is, the body wastes some of its intracellular potassium in order to cling to whatever sodium it can. However unless there is copious potassium coming in from the diet, this excess urinary potassium comes from the body's potassium pool inside cells. Two things then happen. First, nerve and muscles cells don't work well, leading to cardia dysrhythmias and muscle cramps. Second, because potassium is an obligate component of lean tissue, the body starts losing muscle even if there's plenty of protein in the diet"


Wow!!! So that fluttery heartbeat you experience is from a potassium deficiency brought about by too little sodium!! Dang.

And...Wow!!! So eat low sodium LC at your LBM's peril! That is very interesting too because it implies that you'd lose LBM without necessarily experiencing cramping.

This has an interesting implication.. Losing LBM has an impact on caloric requirements too. Less LBM means less calories burned because muscle mass burns calories just by being there. So you gradually lose LBM and your actual calorie needs diminish too. And ... you stall.

Page 150, and elsewhere, is where he says a total of 5 grams of sodium for an LC'r in some combination of food and added sodium (broth, bullion, etc).
Wow! This really speaks to me. The other day when I was dizzy and weird I took the salt you recommended and it really helped. Now excuse me if this has been asked but if I'm feeling well with the xtra salt is that enough or is the potassium supplement necessary as well? I bought the potassium but I am a little scared of it bc my pharmacist kinda scared me that its very hard on the kidneys...
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:45 AM   #257
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Wildflower....I can so relate to the Costco cashew clusters....I got hooked on them a couple years ago and that is how I gained my weight back I'm sure. Cashews are famous for that. Re: not meeting your goal calories, fat, etc....I'm right there with you! Last night after dinner I realized that I needed another meal (after dinner within 20 minutes), so I had a protein shake with 1.5 scoops of the powder, more MCT oil and almond milk. I laughed at all I ate. This morning...scale was exactly the same (weighs within .2#). So, I'm going to continue to up my food....and thank you everyone for the bulletproof coffee stuff and teh website person as I have been having that and it's absolutely sensational. I had a protein shake made of a BPC drink with a scoop of protein powder for breakfast. Wow...vanilla whey powder and the coffee, butter, MCT oil were just yummy!!!!! I'm eating more than ever, and hoping that it will release bodyfat, pounds and increase my ketone readings which are NOT yet into being in ketosis.
I'm actually starting to LIKE this bullet proof coffee stuff! Especially on these cold mornings!
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:50 AM   #258
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De-lurking here. It has taken me awhile to get to this point, but I'm dipping my toe in the water. I'm not new to LCing or LCF. I go back aways recognizing Buffy and CarolynF here, and a few on other boards. I've been studying LC since the 70s, and always lean towards eating that way, but my boundaries had begun to stretch.
Around Labor Day, after a busy summer, ending with holding a BBQ for 40 at our house. I was totally spent and had a minor meltdown. I actually lost some time during the day where I wasn't sure what had transpired. Time to change the food, if nothing else, and get some rest.
I started under the overall umbrella of LC, soon getting my energy and clear thinking back. I then went grain free as well. Then I decided to lurk on LCF again, and found the info on LCHF. It was for me. A much better long term tweak to the old LC.
Now at 70, I still don't gain easily, but I could lose 30 lbs give or take. Per an event in 2000, I'm aware that I'm the same weight as at that time. I don't lose easily, never have. But I don't yo-yo either. It seemed in the past it was a gradual 1-2 lbs every winter/holiday season. Until I learned to control gaining with leaning toward LC.
Now 3 months later, I've lost a whopping 2.5 lbs. A little discouraged as usually the first 5 lbs at least would come off easily. However, I've dropped inches in many places, discovering new places all the time. I would not stop eating this way no matter what as the benefits of energy and clear thinking are far worth it in these later days. My DH, my house, my yard, my job (business at home), and my hobbies have all benefited as well.
The story goes on, but enough for now. Dot
Belated Welcome Dot! Catching up on the thread. Pretty cool how this WOE impacts everything especially the mental clarity and energy!
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:01 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Get one of them week long pill-minders that are marked S/M/T/W/T/F/S. It is a life saver. You can see at a glance if you've taken your assortment for the day.

I find that I still need to look occasionally or that I'd plumb forgot until I spy the strip and realize I still hadn't had mine yet.

Numbers look good

Is this "Fat 137 (198)" a typo? I can't figure out the 198 compared to the ~1800ish goal calories. Just want to make sure I don't have an error in my spreadsheet.
No, not a typo. 198 is the recommendation, yes? 1841 is the floor. Let me know. Wouldn't it be hilarious if I were eating double the recommended fat grams?

Great idea re: the pill case, Yep, I think it's time.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:16 AM   #260
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Wow! This really speaks to me. The other day when I was dizzy and weird I took the salt you recommended and it really helped. Now excuse me if this has been asked but if I'm feeling well with the xtra salt is that enough or is the potassium supplement necessary as well? I bought the potassium but I am a little scared of it bc my pharmacist kinda scared me that its very hard on the kidneys...
We'll have to wait for one of or medically knowledgeable people to speak to the kidney and potassium thing.

But I think potassium is a widely accepted supplement for the LC community. Dr. Eades Rx's 400mg/daily for the first 2 weeks to his obese patients when he starts them on his LC woe and then, I think, reduces it to 200mg.

I take 200 to 300 mg every day.

He may be right for those poor souls eating high carb. I bet if you asked him about upping your sodium intake he'd get a very pensive look on his face before either flatly calling it bad or asking what was prompting you to think that was appropriate.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:22 AM   #261
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No, not a typo. 198 is the recommendation, yes? 1841 is the floor. Let me know. Wouldn't it be hilarious if I were eating double the recommended fat grams?

Great idea re: the pill case, Yep, I think it's time.
lol

Ah, I see. The 198 is for the ceiling not the floor. No worries! And that is the right way to do it - lowest carbs possible and fat is where you trim calories if you are going to miss goal.

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Old 12-04-2012, 08:24 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
We'll have to wait for one of or medically knowledgeable people to speak to the kidney and potassium thing.

But I think potassium is a widely accepted supplement for the LC community. Dr. Eades Rx's 400mg/daily for the first 2 weeks to his obese patients when he starts them on his LC woe and then, I think, reduces it to 200mg.

I take 200 to 300 mg every day.

He may be right for those poor souls eating high carb. I bet if you asked him about upping your sodium intake he'd get a very pensive look on his face before either flatly calling it bad or asking what was prompting you to think that was appropriate.
OK I'm sold. LOL yes he would totally freak about my current sodium intake let alone upping it There are so many different kinds of potassium out there, have you looked into the differences or you just take any kind? The one I got, solgar is potassium gluconate.

editing to say- I remember why else I was hesitant to take it - bc of the blood pressure lowering affect. I already have lbp. But (information overload!) I think I may have read someplace here that it is not a concern....?

Last edited by tablis; 12-04-2012 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:28 AM   #263
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Just FYI~ I currently take a "potassium sparing" BP RX. I've been warned NOT to supplement or even use "light" salt products. Just in case someone here is doing the same and hasn't heard this.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:57 AM   #264
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Terri, be careful if your fat macro edges up above about 82%. Either you are low on protein or high on calories or both (using 1.5g/kg protein).

Thanks Red,
I ended up with
1816 Calories
165 Fat - 83%
66 Protein
13 Carbs
And a .70 bump this morning
I thought I did great Then re-reading your opening tips & instructions this morning and your comment, I realize I need to shake the FF frame of mind a bit a allow more protein. Thanks again I really appreciate you input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzcase View Post
Good news though, this morning was 121.2, -1.8 since yesterday. Woo!

Macros:
1541 calories, 117.4g fat, 13.8g carbs, 57g protein
68% fat, 16% protein, 3% carbs, 13% alcohol
He, He, He wine cheat! Congrads Mizzcase!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazygyrl View Post
so, why, red, have i had a gain everytime i eat higher sodium foods? that's the only time i had gains.

terri and i were talking and she asked if the TYPE of salt makes a difference. adding pure seat salt as opposed processed salty foods...say summer sausage?
I'm on the bench with my bud with a bump today. But I'm thinking more macros on my end.

Red, we were also wondering if something else in processed food might be the culprit, like nitrates or MSG for instance.

My table salt of choice is Kosher Salt and I use Sea Salt for cooking, and I love salt. I have no trouble with these or "no nitrate added" processed foods. But some of the other stuff where the micros on the label look good. Whammo!
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:08 AM   #265
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Haha Buffy it was only for 6 people so there was plenty of leftovers! I'm just assuming they thought more people were coming.
The shredded looking dish was spaghetti squash w/ bacon and mushrooms

Today I'm eating the left over steak

I'm up 1.4 today. I drank soooo much water yesterday and it's like it all stayed in me! I also ate kung pao chicken two days in a row :/ and some 90%
chocolate. So today I'm going to keep it simple, I want my energy back.

Hope everyone is having a great morning!!
I'm still half asleep (at work)
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:12 AM   #266
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Congrats Mizzcase!!! Impressive loss!
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:19 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alizgurl View Post
Haha Buffy it was only for 6 people so there was plenty of leftovers! I'm just assuming they thought more people were coming.
The shredded looking dish was spaghetti squash w/ bacon and mushrooms

Today I'm eating the left over steak

I'm up 1.4 today. I drank soooo much water yesterday and it's like it all stayed in me! I also ate kung pao chicken two days in a row :/ and some 90%
chocolate. So today I'm going to keep it simple, I want my energy back.

Hope everyone is having a great morning!!
I'm still half asleep (at work)
That's a normal fluctuation. You're not really up unless it doesn't go away in a few days. You're doing great!
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:21 AM   #268
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Baconator.jpg

It was at wendys. First time I ever heard of it.
I dreamed about it last night.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:34 AM   #269
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Wow gang, there are too many posts to try to respond to, so I will just say a general hello, love our thread here and so many interesting people now posting.

I finally got to sleep about 4:00 am and slept until 10:00. Do feel better but still lingering sinus headache. But, feel more in control of my eating. Yesterday I was about ready to just cave, just because I didn't feel good and let's face it, carbs temparily make us feel good. On the tortillas, those were just the little pinwheel appetizers I ate, so maybe a 10th of a tortilla, guess that really wasn't that much.

Some days the higher sodium makes me retain and some days it doesn't, think it is part of us ladies wonderful hormonal swings we have to put up with.

Since I haven't been feeling well, I have really been enjoying some of my homemade buttery chicken broth which I make very salty. I go through the chicken fairly fast so have been able to stockpile some broth in the freezer, sure is better than store bought.

If some of our newbies have missed my broth "recipe?", here it is.

Take a 8 qt souppot, throw in a whole chicken or the parts to equal at least one chicken and fill pan with water. Put in lots of sea salt and pepper. To this I add at least 1/2 lb butter and let it simmer on the stove all day. Simmering slowly will not boil off your water, which you want to keep, if it gets a little low, add some more hot water. Then, dip out all the chicken and bones, pull that meat off and store, I put mine in bags of 4 oz and strain your broth. Put in freezer containers. It is high fat, strong, salty broth.

Another tip for our newbies. For a treat, a lot of us love diet soda floats. Pour half a can of diet soda, root beer is very good, zero coke very good, fango orange, either of these over the ice, add 1-3 T of HWC, then fill up with rest of soda. Yummy goodness. If I am craving fruit, I will do the orange.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:36 AM   #270
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Wow Becky!!!
You are going back down really fast!!
Congrats. I know that makes ya happy!!!
WTG!!!
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