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Old 12-02-2012, 09:46 AM   #121
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Southerngirl- I always look forward to your posts b/c you are so careful to comment on everyone's post- it makes me feel special

Anjikun- that's gotta be frustrating- I hope you are able to get some answers soon!

Becky- now that you mention it- I also went through a depressive state when getting back on track (letting go of the 1/2jar of PB a day)...that was a doosey- and I really hope I am able to stay on track!
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:16 AM   #122
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Ok, the good news is, that as of this morning, I have not gained any weight the past 2 weeks since Thanksgiving. The not so good news is that I haven’t lost any. I am ok with slow loss but not ok with no loss. The biggest change I have made is to not log my food. So, starting today, I am going to log again to see if that helps. It may or may not, but at least I will see where I am at. I do think I was under eating protein. I know I was getting plenty of fats and have no idea where I was on calories. Some days I have to almost make myself eat, but the things I do eat are pretty calorie dense, like the cream cheese mousse, the macadamia nuts. I might just be to a stage where my body is adjusting but I do know that to learn you have to log. Laziness pushed aside for the time being, I will log this week and see what happens.

The journey continues……
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:18 AM   #123
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Seems like a lot of people who are not losing also have very diabetic symptoms and signs. Can't help but think it is related, especially based on my experience of not being able to budge off of 242 and possibly gaining more before I was put on metformin.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:27 AM   #124
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Ok, the good news is, that as of this morning, I have not gained any weight the past 2 weeks since Thanksgiving. The not so good news is that I haven’t lost any. I am ok with slow loss but not ok with no loss. The biggest change I have made is to not log my food. So, starting today, I am going to log again to see if that helps. It may or may not, but at least I will see where I am at. I do think I was under eating protein. I know I was getting plenty of fats and have no idea where I was on calories. Some days I have to almost make myself eat, but the things I do eat are pretty calorie dense, like the cream cheese mousse, the macadamia nuts. I might just be to a stage where my body is adjusting but I do know that to learn you have to log. Laziness pushed aside for the time being, I will log this week and see what happens.

The journey continues……
I can relate to your frustration, only I would have been happy for the last 3 months to have had a 1# loss. At over 3 months of this, I am finally ONLY .2# over where I began!!! I went down 2#, and up 5# and now am down nearly 3# to be almost identical to where I began.

I have been logging. And my morning (before eating/drinking) ketone reading was .4 and my fasting B/G was 110, but they were with the NovaMax meter and so I don't trust the glucose reading. I have an AccuChek one coming this week and we shall see how different the meters test then.

But my measurement day was today as well. I lost 1/8" in the bust and everywhere else gained inches! So...don't know what to say other than hang in there. For you, Buffy, my guess is that you've had such wonderful and consistent "slow" losses that the body is just "settling in" for a bit and then will continue the downward trend.

I'm going to continue to up my protein and calories and see what happens.

But I'm happy!!!! I feel well and not at all deprived or feeling I'm on a "diet"....
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:29 AM   #125
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Hi to All, GM, it is pretty here, I love any day the sun welcomes us in the morning!
Great report Mizz! You are doing so good. The suppression will come on appetite, I was around end of two weeks I think. One day I just wasn't as hungry.
Hi Becky, good going to drop the nuts, I am as well, with the exception of mac nuts. Yesterday I emptied a new package, 8 oz in the old Oscar, and made mac nut butter. Easy to add cream cheese and coconut butter in a quick need. I had a T after my coffee this morning to take vitamins, have to get fat for those to absorb, and I am feeling good. That slight depressed feeling is likely due to the reduction of carbs from nuts, hang in it will clear.
Hi Darin! Bet you are tired after all that new December work yesterday! I like your point about metrics, 98% of Americans cannot convert and it is setting folks up for failure. Health care does work in metrics, and it's a challenge to tell folks, take 1 mg of something, and they stare with a blank face. We are working on discharge planning hard, to make certain they understand how to take meds and vitamins. We do have conversion errors in the facilities as well. Would be nice if these books had the conversions sidebar to the metrics.
Hi Tablis,
So good to hear from you Shunsweets!
Sophie, I get the green face everytime I think about taking olive oil straight! I'm glad it works for you, but well, eeekkk!
Dazy, you have to do what feels right for you....charts are merely recommendations. I feel best at 120, even though the charts say I "should" be higher.
Deborah, I thought the same thing when I saw 2000+ calories, I don't know if mentally I can do that.
Hi Judy! you always provide needed laughs! TY
GM Cheryl, very good!
Heading out to work in the garden! Have a great day
You are always so nice to greet everybody!
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:30 AM   #126
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Good luck Buffy, if I'm maintaining during the holidays, I'd call that a win regardless!
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:33 AM   #127
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Ok, the good news is, that as of this morning, I have not gained any weight the past 2 weeks since Thanksgiving. The not so good news is that I haven’t lost any. I am ok with slow loss but not ok with no loss. The biggest change I have made is to not log my food. So, starting today, I am going to log again to see if that helps. It may or may not, but at least I will see where I am at. I do think I was under eating protein. I know I was getting plenty of fats and have no idea where I was on calories. Some days I have to almost make myself eat, but the things I do eat are pretty calorie dense, like the cream cheese mousse, the macadamia nuts. I might just be to a stage where my body is adjusting but I do know that to learn you have to log. Laziness pushed aside for the time being, I will log this week and see what happens.

The journey continues……
I think I'm going to go get some macadamia nuts. I love those things and haven't had them since starting this WOE.
I suppose logging food will be the way to see exactly where you are and possibly why you aren't losing.

Is there some school of thought that our body has to adjust at a new lower weight? Mine did.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:34 AM   #128
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Good luck Buffy, if I'm maintaining during the holidays, I'd call that a win regardless!
Oh me too.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:36 AM   #129
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but I do know that to learn you have to log
That is an awesome line Buffy!
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:41 AM   #130
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Seems like a lot of people who are not losing also have very diabetic symptoms and signs. Can't help but think it is related, especially based on my experience of not being able to budge off of 242 and possibly gaining more before I was put on metformin.
I was just listening to the Long Term Stalls podcast again and Phinney just remarked a few mins ago about how tricky Type 1 DB medicine can be for dosage. He said that a very small amount over what you actually need would knock you out of ketosis (without, apparently, any other effects). I think it is somewhere between the 40 minute mark and the 60 minute mark on that recording.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:45 AM   #131
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Thanks everyone. To maintain during the holidays is good, but I really do not eat much differently if any during the holidays. Now, when I was younger, it was like holding back a team of wild horses to keep me out of all those carbs, it is easier now and we don't do as much if any socially I'm afraid. As far as food laden holiday parties that is.

I am not really too frustrated, but after 2 weeks without seeing a loss, I think it will help me to see what is going on. If my numbers are right on, then we will just give it some time. But, I don't think I am eating enough protein.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:46 AM   #132
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Yes Red, it is very tricky for people on insulin, easier for those of us type 2's. Once we get on the right meds that is. Or, you can control type 2 with diet alone but it does make it harder.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:07 AM   #133
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I can relate to your frustration, only I would have been happy for the last 3 months to have had a 1# loss. At over 3 months of this, I am finally ONLY .2# over where I began!!! I went down 2#, and up 5# and now am down nearly 3# to be almost identical to where I began.

I have been logging. And my morning (before eating/drinking) ketone reading was .4 and my fasting B/G was 110, but they were with the NovaMax meter and so I don't trust the glucose reading. I have an AccuChek one coming this week and we shall see how different the meters test then.

But my measurement day was today as well. I lost 1/8" in the bust and everywhere else gained inches! So...don't know what to say other than hang in there. For you, Buffy, my guess is that you've had such wonderful and consistent "slow" losses that the body is just "settling in" for a bit and then will continue the downward trend.

I'm going to continue to up my protein and calories and see what happens.

But I'm happy!!!! I feel well and not at all deprived or feeling I'm on a "diet"....
I'm a very slow loser too! you have a great attitude. I hope we both start losing soon!
Let me know how you find the accucheck... I got one, found it to be inaccurate and exchanged it. same problem with the second one. I would prick my finger and get a crazy reading so repeat it immediately after and get a totally different reading! in fact, i got two different readings from the same finger... I actually found a youtube video of a guy demonstrating having the same problem... I have a nova one coming...lol
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:36 AM   #134
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Anjikun - too much B6 and too little B12 are also reasons for neuropathy, just as an aside.
They have checked this (and my doctor is checking again). I have been researching this, and it turns out that there are about a zillion things that cause neuropathy! Diabetes is just the most common.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:43 AM   #135
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Sorry to hear about all of that Anjikun

If you do need thyroid medication then be aware that getting the dosage just right is more of an art than a science. And the dosage being right for you will have a huge impact on your LC/NK success. Phinney talks about that in the Long Term Stalls podcast with Jimmy Moore - google 'long term stalls phinney'.

Your family doc is a good person that will be conscientious about this matter? Are they aware of your LC lifestyle?
Thanks for your input Red. I think I listened to the podcast you mentioned, but I wasn't paying much attention to the thyroid part. I will go back and listen to it again.

Of course the thing that I'm really worried about is that my thyroid will be in the "normal lab range" despite the fact that all my symptoms clearly point to thyroid. Luckily my doctor is very cool, and I'm quite sure she will agree to run the extra labs mentioned on that Stop the Thyroid Madness site if necessary. And yes, she is definitely aware of my LC lifestyle. I even told her I wanted to try nutritional ketosis, and she didn't seem to think I was a total crazy. She told me as long as I eat some vegetables, it should be fine!
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:49 AM   #136
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She told me as long as I eat some vegetables
She is a quack!!



Seriously though, that is so good to have a doc that is onboard with LC/NK!
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:54 AM   #137
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They have checked this (and my doctor is checking again). I have been researching this, and it turns out that there are about a zillion things that cause neuropathy! Diabetes is just the most common.
How do you know if your b6 is high? Is there a serum b6 blood test?
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:18 PM   #138
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That calorie limit makes me SO jealous!
your goal weight seems low for your height...i'm an inch shorter than you and the bottom recomended weight for me is 136. what frame size are you?
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:18 PM   #139
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Anjikun, I think he mentions it several times but he for sure talks about it right at 1:36:30.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:19 PM   #140
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Her frame size is stubborn as I am sure Mr. tLG would agree
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:20 PM   #141
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No. In fact, under-consumption will probably increase weight loss as long as you are not dangerously under-consuming and break yourself, wake up to concerned looks in the ER and everyone freaking out when they find out you were eating Atkinsesque which gets reported on the 6pm news and then all of us suffer for your very low protein diet choices.



At any rate, no, low protein won't stall you. But too low protein means that you will lose lean body mass. That happens because your body will gleefully, and super silently, steal protein from your body if you aren't eating enough in your diet. And there are no red flags for this slow leech of lean body mass. You have to be actively checking your LBM values to catch it happening.
thanks!

today's numbers are:

cals: 2143
protein: 82 g
fat: 184 g
carbs: 32 g total (strawberries, coconut water, pecans, almond muffins)
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:21 PM   #142
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Her frame size is stubborn as I am sure Mr. tLG would agree
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #143
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Hey ya'll. I listened to JM's podcast on long term stalls with Phinney again and made notes as I went.

I posted a new thread in our forum with my notes if anyone is interested.

NK - Phinney & Jimmy Moore - Long Term Stalls podcast
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:39 PM   #144
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How do you know if your b6 is high? Is there a serum b6 blood test?
I guess I was referring to the B12. I'm not sure if she is checking B6, or if there is a test for that.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:55 PM   #145
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Well well well.

It turns out that all advertising is not hyperbole after all.

I just found a pack of new Mach3 razors at the bottom of my shave kit bag. So I thought, banza!! don't have to buy razors for a while!!! and proceeded to shave with my very old (like 3 years) but treasured find.

Nicked the living smoke out of myself lol

I haven't nicked myself in I don't know when but I am pretty sure it is ever since I bought the heavily advertised Fushion ProGlide.

Right after I sliced myself open, inflicting a grievously painful wound, I remembered scoffing at the over the top advertising and rolling my eyes at the hype heh.

And the Mach3 does not give as good a shave as the FPG either.

I'll be cautious but I'm still gonna use them up. If you wonder why just mosey down the razor aisle at the store and witness the fleecing of America first hand - jiminy cricket!


Last edited by reddarin; 12-02-2012 at 03:43 PM..
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:13 PM   #146
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That actually kind of gives me a general feeling of annoyance whenever it comes up.

We should be metric. It is far superior to the Ye Olde English system we are straddled with.

That is why it is always used in almost every industry where precision and accuracy is important.

I was a school boy when the metric system was a huge buzz in America. It was the wave of the future and we were all going to be jetting around in our flying cars spouting mg/kg/ml/dl/etc.

*That* was the stupidity of what happened right there. Instead of playing to its actual strength, which is precision, the dunderheads tried to convince everyone it was the future. Well, heck, that means it is changeable, maybe it won't become the future, and it is a big pain to use and the conversion to it is expensive, the USSR is using it and we do not want to give them a nod and a wink, blah blah blah. Just stupid.

/rant over
Off your soapbox now? Must have been crowed with both of us on there! I wish I could tell you all the stories of my days...who needs fiction when you work in a hospital. That said, this is part of the crisis in our schools; math/science etc. It is also very, very frustrating to give orders/instructions to patients only to have them not tell you they cannot read, therefore, useless pieces of paper, and then they turn around and SUE us for their round #2 of whatever they have returned to the ED for, since they didn't follow instructions, because they could not read. Metrics and diet instructions go the same way. We convert, as it is hopeless otherwise, but diet instructions are yet another issue. Ok, off MY rant!
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:45 PM   #147
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Hi Buffy, I am working my way up to the OO in the water! I take a 200mg of Mag Oxide about an hour before bed....the OO would increase fats, which I am short on most days...let us know if it works. I have suffered with potty issues my entire LC life...until I upped the Mag, and took the oxide at night. The higher fat is good for this too.
Mary, we wait anxiously with you on the T-testing. Not that it's a great dx, but the unknown drives us bats! There are many excellent diabetics here with great info, I am the hypoglycemic in the party -- but I can spike very high results if I eat something with sugar, then crash to 45-50 in less than an hour. I recommend charting for patterns. Sorry about the neuropathy, that's a tough one.
Hi Brandilynn! Great info! How are you doing?
Hi Mizz! LOL, frozen yogurt meltdowns! Sounds like my Blue Bell Ice Cream moments! DH banned that stuff back last Feb....
Sophie, I need to remember to roast some garlic....I have been very lazy and buy it at the grocery. What a delightful smell in the house - my three dogs walk in circles! PB is a no-no for me too, I can take a tablespoon to that stuff in a most dangerous way!
Shelley, I cannot remember your age, I am 51...seems like many "fun" and delightful things happen from late 40s to mid 50s. All my research points to hormones for "most of us girls". I have a few emails out to fav contacts on this subject, as I have conveniently ignored my aging up to the last few months -- but after my recent tests, and finding my lowest pitiful levels were the ones directly affecting weight, storing fat, slowing metabolism, I am going to learn all I can....depending on when this "bliss" hits us, it can really feel like a brick wall for weight loss. I have a friend age 61, she decided to test and go on BHRT too.
Hi Judy, I think you are on the nose with the "adjustment to new weight"....I have had several adjustment periods....I refuse to believe that is where I am now!!!
Tablis, I feel for your fingers! All of you, all the poking! I absolutely hated it when I had to start back in late teen years...luckily I found my low patterns and dispensed with that quickly. Yes, this is why I don't test for the ketones! There are labs for vitamin panels, you are in Canada, yes? I don't know the coverage for your health care system, in the US most insurance won't pay without a definitive diagnosis; Medicare is the same, but once a year with a condition. There are labs for B12 as well.
Darin, still laughing tears over the razor story.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:01 PM   #148
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YAY FOR DECEMBER!!!!

I'm just checking in here, I'll catch up in the morning cause I have to run now.

Hope everyone had a great weekend so far! I'll be chatting it up tomorrow morning
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:13 PM   #149
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Shelley, I cannot remember your age, I am 51...seems like many "fun" and delightful things happen from late 40s to mid 50s. All my research points to hormones for "most of us girls".
I'm 64.5 years of age! And I did BHRT for many many years as I started having hot flashes when I turned 31. I went through a natural menopause at 50 and kept taking them under the direction of several naturopaths and MD's who specialized in that. Then I moved....and the ones that tout themselves as pros really messed me up royally. I mean I nearly died. But found a great person to help me, but it took a good 2 years to be optimized in thyroid and adrenals and then she told me to get off the hormones! Yup, even BHRT. I've been off them for about 18 months...or has it been longer?

I laughed at the "fun things" that happen in late 40's to mid 50's. You are so right about that! And it's not much fun unless you have really good guidance! I'm glad I'm through to the other side of all that! Life is really good then!!!
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:56 PM   #150
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Ok, end of the day, ready for bed and I logged today. Did the deed, know it will help.
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