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Old 12-31-2012, 04:35 AM   #1231
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So sad to hear about the cancer victims. My step mother had throat cancer. She beat it with radiation but sacrificed her vocal strings.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:13 AM   #1232
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He will be doing what ever the Dr reccommends is my understanding. They are scheduling surgery this week and then she said he may have to have chemo or radiation. She wasn't sure. He seemed healthy as a horse always outside working but had a heart attack 2 yrs ago. Then the drs put him on all these meds and a low fat diet. He started coughing all the time from the meds. he always ate high fat but also had a serious love for sugar and ate bologna every day. We picked on him about bologna daily. But he cut out all the "bad foods" and did everything the Drs told him to do.
I don't know what could cause cancer but I know I do not trust all the rx meds the dr want to slap ya on.
Thanks for sharing and helping me.
Well Cheryl...there may be some good news in here...it is a rare EC patient that has surgery...it's a difficult place to work in, so they must have caught it early. My Dad was late stages, it was huge...he started with the most common reason for EC, long-term smoking, and excessive, I would label him a chain-smoker for many of those 50+ years. Then reflux symptoms hit, that's the initial warning....that he ignored. Then extreme difficulty swallowing, which he refused a modified barium swallow. Choices. We all have the right to make them and live with them. Radiation is good for this type too, as long as they are radar on it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:14 AM   #1233
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Good morning ya'll
Good Morning Darin! How are you doing?
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:20 AM   #1234
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Morning all,we're is ever one these days?well I'm back down from my Xmas weight,160.6 sure would be nice to start the new year off in the 159.i have not seen that in 4.5 years I'm doing mostly meat and eggs keeping fat high it's workin for now. I seem to lose one week then the next nothing my body must be resting,who no our body's are funny!
I hope all of you have a great NEW YEAR,,and reach your goal this time next year!!
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:22 AM   #1235
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Morning all,we're is ever one these days?well I'm back down from my Xmas weight,160.6 sure would be nice to start the new year off in the 159.i have not seen that in 4.5 years I'm doing mostly meat and eggs keeping fat high it's workin for now. I seem to lose one week then the next nothing my body must be resting,who no our body's are funny!
I hope all of you have a great NEW YEAR,,and reach your goal this time next year!!
WTG Becky! That is wonderful to head into the new year. I think everyone is sleeping in this morning! I am heading out to sweep up a bit from the last two wind/rain storms, to get ready for the next one! We really need the rain, so its a blessing!
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:36 AM   #1236
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I was listening to a radio show and the topic for that hour was Happiness - it is always the topic for that particular hour of the week. Although guests are rare, this particular hour had a psychologist, Dr. Stephen Marmer. He said something that finally and at long last reconciled some observed behavior with definable terms.

He said that three traits in particular are very destructive to happiness: jealousy, covetousness and envy. In plain language they are usually considered synonymous. However, in psychology they have specific and unique properties one to another.
---

I see a person with something and

Jealousy: ...I want one because that person has one. I am jealous. If I buy one for myself or someone buys one for me I have cured my jealousy.

Covetousness: ...I want *that* one. I want to take it away from that person and have it for myself.

Envy: ...I resent the fact that you have got something that I do not have and I am gonna knock it out of your hand and stomp on it because it bothers me more that you've got something that I don't have than for me to go out and get it myself.

---
Wow. Who hasn't met or doesn't know someone that fits the envy description to a tee? Knowing the distinct differences among these three states of being means that you can address each with a tailored approach for your own problem or for a problem person.

Correctly defining a problem is the biggest part of conquering a problem.

Anywho! I thought it was very interesting
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:45 AM   #1237
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Morning all,we're is ever one these days?well I'm back down from my Xmas weight,160.6 sure would be nice to start the new year off in the 159.i have not seen that in 4.5 years I'm doing mostly meat and eggs keeping fat high it's workin for now. I seem to lose one week then the next nothing my body must be resting,who no our body's are funny!
I hope all of you have a great NEW YEAR,,and reach your goal this time next year!!
Congrats on reattaining that so quickly after Christmas Becky!!

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Old 12-31-2012, 06:53 AM   #1238
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Good Morning Darin! How are you doing?
Good morning ct!

Better today than the last few days thanks to that show I mentioned in the other post.

Cravings-wise...sheesh! I'm ready for that stuff to be over with. Today is Day 74. It is tragic that cravings at this point in time almost certainly mean that smoking was a much bigger mental crutch than I thought. I mean, I knew that it was what I leaned on in stressful times/situations but I had no idea how heavily I leaned on it.

I'm still off plan and I have for sure gained back every ounce of water weight lol. I'm hoping to begin again on Wednesday or Thursday. I've got some Jarrow Formulas (that is their brand name) CO coming that should be here by then.

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Old 12-31-2012, 07:03 AM   #1239
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Hey, I meant to update the thread on the CO to sleep the night through thing.

So far it has worked dramatically well. I think twice I still woke up but I was able to think happy thoughts and go right back to sleep after a few minutes.

That is a huge contrast to having to stay up for an hour reading a book to get my mind off of things.

The question is, is it simply the placebo effect or is Taubes right?

I am inclined to think the effect is real but not for the reason that GT gave. When I was doing it weeks ago I would have my T of CO before 6pm. How many calories are in that? Not enough, I think, to account for sleeping through 6 or 8 hours later because of caloric intake.

On the other hand, CO results in the production of ketones and ketones unlock the calories in fat tissue, right? Simplistic but correct in broad terms I think. So, GT is right about energy availability but not because of his [implied] reasoning for the just before bedtime calories. Or, perhaps more likely, it is a situation of "either / or / or both".

One very interesting thing is that I took my dose very late one evening, just before going to bed, and it did not keep me up. I'm sure that is a YMMV thing.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:05 AM   #1240
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Sorry to here that red!!i no that co really helps me get back on track.ive set my goal to be 155 by the time I leave for Puerto Rico the 28 of jan.. Just hang in there,,,
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:09 AM   #1241
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Ok red did not understand so is co good for u at night?does it help sleep?will you still lose weight eating co that late?
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:11 AM   #1242
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Red, that post on the radio show is fascinating. I have to say, I do/did know people that exhibited each of those behaviors, but I've done my best to expel them from my life!
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:41 AM   #1243
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Hey, I meant to update the thread on the CO to sleep the night through thing.

So far it has worked dramatically well. I think twice I still woke up but I was able to think happy thoughts and go right back to sleep after a few minutes.

That is a huge contrast to having to stay up for an hour reading a book to get my mind off of things.

The question is, is it simply the placebo effect or is Taubes right?

I am inclined to think the effect is real but not for the reason that GT gave. When I was doing it weeks ago I would have my T of CO before 6pm. How many calories are in that? Not enough, I think, to account for sleeping through 6 or 8 hours later because of caloric intake.

On the other hand, CO results in the production of ketones and ketones unlock the calories in fat tissue, right? Simplistic but correct in broad terms I think. So, GT is right about energy availability but not because of his [implied] reasoning for the just before bedtime calories. Or, perhaps more likely, it is a situation of "either / or / or both".

One very interesting thing is that I took my dose very late one evening, just before going to bed, and it did not keep me up. I'm sure that is a YMMV thing.
Hi, Red. I am surprised at this statement as everything I read showed ketones to be a byproduct of the liver/kidneys breaking down fatty acids and act as fuel to the nervous system in the absense of glucose. When they are present this process is taking place. I am confused by the idea that they actually have any active part in fat burning outside of being the end product.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:49 AM   #1244
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Ok red did not understand so is co good for u at night?does it help sleep?will you still lose weight eating co that late?
Yes, the anecdotal evidence is that it will help you get a full night of sleep. However, if you are sensitive to it then taking it right before going to bed may be a problem because of the energy bump it tends to give.

It seems like you build a bit of a tolerance to that zoom feeling after taking it steadily for some period of time (weeks or months maybe).

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Old 12-31-2012, 07:51 AM   #1245
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Sorry to here that red!!i no that co really helps me get back on track.ive set my goal to be 155 by the time I leave for Puerto Rico the 28 of jan.. Just hang in there,,,
Becky, what was your original goal weight for the Puerto Rico trip?
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:54 AM   #1246
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:56 AM   #1247
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Hi, Red. I am surprised at this statement as everything I read showed ketones to be a byproduct of the liver/kidneys breaking down fatty acids and act as fuel to the nervous system in the absense of glucose. When they are present this process is taking place. I am confused by the idea that they actually have any active part in fat burning outside of being the end product.
Good catch Cici! I did not form that part of my thought very well. Rephrase that line to be 'CO encourages body fat caloric consumption which means that those calories are available throughout the night'.

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Old 12-31-2012, 08:06 AM   #1248
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Red, that post on the radio show is fascinating. I have to say, I do/did know people that exhibited each of those behaviors, but I've done my best to expel them from my life!
Right?!? It was very enlightening to me.

And that is exactly what I was thinking too. How do you decide who to expel from your life? Are they actually the destructive envious type that is beyond hope or are they merely jealous/covetous?

While all three conditions are fixable both internally and externally, the degree of effort required to redress the situation for 3rd parties can determine the best course of action and save yourself a heck of a lot of frustration.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:28 AM   #1249
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The reason I say 'merely' with regards to the first two conditions of jealousy and covetousness is that I think those two situations can be resolved through civil (or even uncivil) discourse or physical action if the thing is of little value.

Envy, on the other hand, is a lot less likely to be something that you can talk someone away from.

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Old 12-31-2012, 08:32 AM   #1250
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My guess would be that those practicing one of the behaviors that are not a part of your family or work environment have not become integral to your life, thus already expelled by avoidance. The best course of action for the rest is forgiveness and releasing yourself from internalizing their problem. And possibly covering your A$$ in the case of coworkers. We can only change on ourselves.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:49 AM   #1251
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Late good morning! I slept late, woke up at 7:00, it was a rainy day and I snuggled back in.

So glad you are back Red and as always, with some interesting things to discuss. Wow, haven't we all been acquainted with people who show those 3 behaviours and aren't we all guilty of them ourselves at one time or another? They are feelings that make you feel very bad if you are having them, or, if they are directed at you.

I have always felt like you should put your best face, foot forward. I also have never thought it was right when people go to their work place with their emotions showing to the extreme. Have seen a lot of that when people come to work, they are having a "bad" day so expect everyone to stand back and out of their way. Hey, you are here to do your job, leave your emotions at home and deal with them when you get back there.
Several years ago I was friends with a group of ladies and as happens some times, there was a lot of envy and bickering that went on, people talking about others, hurtful things being said, jealous people, etc. When our business began to do really well, a lot of it was directed at me. I tried to downplay things, I tried to not talk about things that might invoke envy, I even tried to take a couple of the ones really talking about me aside and ask them exactly what it was I was doing that had effected our friendship. Both even admitted they were jealous. It was making me miserable and finally I just cut the ties and quit hanging around these people. Best decision I had ever made. I have another group of friends that I have been good friends with for over 20 years and none of them exhibited that type of behaviour. When I dropped the toxic group and stayed with the non-toxic, my life became much happier and peaceful. Sure, I missed being a part of the other group in some ways, we did a lot of things, but it was the right decision.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:54 AM   #1252
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Right?!? It was very enlightening to me.

And that is exactly what I was thinking too. How do you decide who to expel from your life? Are they actually the destructive envious type that is beyond hope or are they merely jealous/covetous?

While all three conditions are fixable both internally and externally, the degree of effort required to redress the situation for 3rd parties can determine the best course of action and save yourself a heck of a lot of frustration.
Hey red, when I get to know people, I pick up those qualities in people rather quickly. I simply quit getting to know them, if they can be avoided. If not, say family or coworkers, I consciously limit my exposure to them. Thankfully, I'm not working right now and live far, far away from my family.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:07 AM   #1253
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I have to back up a bit to make the next point.

The doc was talking about a sense of entitlement as being antithetical to happiness and then said that jealousy, covetousness and envy were very terrible for happiness which is where I picked him up for my earlier post because I was so struck by the clarity about the three terms. I have to agree with what was said on the show by a passerby that knowing the differences are at the level of being life changing.

But for the first person, and even 3rd parties, the entitlement part is very important too.

He implies that all three stem from a sense of entitlement and he says that real sustainable happiness comes from a happy character. A happy character comes from doing the things that are valuable. That earn you the rewards that you get. That earn you the good relationships you have. Whatever it might be.

Inner-happiness comes from earning happiness. Mostly that means staying away from envy, jealousy and covetousness.

Okay, I said all of that (really it is mostly a transcription) to point out this:

You can resolve these internal destroyers of happiness by identifying them and then deciding on a course of action to earn the object in question. Or failing that, once identified you can expunge the harmful emotions that are keeping you unhappy. For a fact, shinning a bright flashlight of 'I see you clearly' on an internal demon exorcises it almost every time.

If it is something physical and attainable then you can take real steps to acquire it.

A material object, like a phone, can be a reward for volunteering for OT at work or taking a short term part time job for the extra cash to buy the phone.

But non-material items work just as well.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:23 AM   #1254
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We can only change on ourselves.
I knew a couple of drill sargents about 30 years ago that vehemently disagree.

But, seriously speaking, knowing what we are talking about here means that you can describe it to someone you care about and be instrumental in them making a change that they otherwise might never stumble across on their own.

My ex-GF's son is who comes to mind for me. He is of age, I cannot say grown up, but has the most amazing sense of entitlement. Perhaps that description fits all young men? lol

Reflecting on it I think I was a lot like him when I was his age. How different could life have been had this stuff crossed my path back then, particularly by someone to whom I'd listen. To whom I'd listen sounds so stuffy but the alternative is to dangle the participle. Usually I just go with the dangle because most of what I post is as informal as a comfy old sweatshirt. These grammar issues plague me. heh.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:24 AM   #1255
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That is true Mz, dummies are frequently very upfront about being dummies lol.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:24 AM   #1256
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And, non-material items bring the most happiness in the end!
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:35 AM   #1257
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The best course of action for the rest is forgiveness and releasing yourself from internalizing their problem. We can only change on ourselves.
Oh Cici....how I love what you wrote!!!!
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:36 AM   #1258
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Late good morning! I slept late, woke up at 7:00, it was a rainy day and I snuggled back in.

So glad you are back Red and as always, with some interesting things to discuss. Wow, haven't we all been acquainted with people who show those 3 behaviours and aren't we all guilty of them ourselves at one time or another? They are feelings that make you feel very bad if you are having them, or, if they are directed at you.

I have always felt like you should put your best face, foot forward. I also have never thought it was right when people go to their work place with their emotions showing to the extreme. Have seen a lot of that when people come to work, they are having a "bad" day so expect everyone to stand back and out of their way. Hey, you are here to do your job, leave your emotions at home and deal with them when you get back there.
Several years ago I was friends with a group of ladies and as happens some times, there was a lot of envy and bickering that went on, people talking about others, hurtful things being said, jealous people, etc. When our business began to do really well, a lot of it was directed at me. I tried to downplay things, I tried to not talk about things that might invoke envy, I even tried to take a couple of the ones really talking about me aside and ask them exactly what it was I was doing that had effected our friendship. Both even admitted they were jealous. It was making me miserable and finally I just cut the ties and quit hanging around these people. Best decision I had ever made. I have another group of friends that I have been good friends with for over 20 years and none of them exhibited that type of behaviour. When I dropped the toxic group and stayed with the non-toxic, my life became much happier and peaceful. Sure, I missed being a part of the other group in some ways, we did a lot of things, but it was the right decision.
Envy is toxic for sure. Getting shut of that group was an excellent decision Buffy
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:42 AM   #1259
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Late good morning! I slept late, woke up at 7:00, it was a rainy day and I snuggled back in.

So glad you are back Red and as always, with some interesting things to discuss. Wow, haven't we all been acquainted with people who show those 3 behaviours and aren't we all guilty of them ourselves at one time or another? They are feelings that make you feel very bad if you are having them, or, if they are directed at you.

I have always felt like you should put your best face, foot forward. I also have never thought it was right when people go to their work place with their emotions showing to the extreme. Have seen a lot of that when people come to work, they are having a "bad" day so expect everyone to stand back and out of their way. Hey, you are here to do your job, leave your emotions at home and deal with them when you get back there.
Several years ago I was friends with a group of ladies and as happens some times, there was a lot of envy and bickering that went on, people talking about others, hurtful things being said, jealous people, etc. When our business began to do really well, a lot of it was directed at me. I tried to downplay things, I tried to not talk about things that might invoke envy, I even tried to take a couple of the ones really talking about me aside and ask them exactly what it was I was doing that had effected our friendship. Both even admitted they were jealous. It was making me miserable and finally I just cut the ties and quit hanging around these people. Best decision I had ever made. I have another group of friends that I have been good friends with for over 20 years and none of them exhibited that type of behaviour. When I dropped the toxic group and stayed with the non-toxic, my life became much happier and peaceful. Sure, I missed being a part of the other group in some ways, we did a lot of things, but it was the right decision.
Good move Buffy...I've had the same experience where I live now...a very tiny little community and not big on "friend selection"......but what was available to me was toxic to my soul....it's so not worth it!

Sounds like this group is very much into avoiding the toxic folks! Good for us!!!
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:49 AM   #1260
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I knew a couple of drill sargents about 30 years ago that vehemently disagree.
But, seriously speaking, knowing what we are talking about here means that you can describe it to someone you care about and be instrumental in them making a change that they otherwise might never stumble across on their own.

My ex-GF's son is who comes to mind for me. He is of age, I cannot say grown up, but has the most amazing sense of entitlement. Perhaps that description fits all young men? lol

Reflecting on it I think I was a lot like him when I was his age. How different could life have been had this stuff crossed my path back then, particularly by someone to whom I'd listen. To whom I'd listen sounds so stuffy but the alternative is to dangle the participle. Usually I just go with the dangle because most of what I post is as informal as a comfy old sweatshirt. These grammar issues plague me. heh.
That drill sargent would fall into the coworker/cya catagory. No?
I'm impressed with anyone who knows what a participle is.
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