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Old 12-22-2012, 12:08 PM   #1111
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Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
Nice to see you back, Red. Love Clancy, especially the later ones. Love to follow his characters from book to book. Have read everything I can get at the library but know there are still a few more out there.

Thanks re:avi pic.
I might give Clancy another shot at some point. It wasn't very long ago that I tried Red Rabbit but I couldn't get into it. I think maybe I need to start back with the books where the major characters were introduced and read forward.

Red October tricked me a little because it was so masterfully written that you could pick it up cold never having heard of Clancy and it kicked butt from start to finish.

ct is right about the Kindle for Clancy though lol dang he writes thick books. Makes your whole arm sore if you read one of them in bed.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:12 PM   #1112
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Originally Posted by MerryKate View Post
Confession time: we had our office party tonight, and I kinda went overboard with the treats. Everyone brought their specialties, and there was a bit of pressure to try things that I wouldn't normally eat. I didn't go too far off plan (70/16/14), but I hadn't had alcohol in a long time and now I'm paying - my stomach is not happy. My boss makes some high-octane eggnog!

I expect I'll be out of ketosis for a few days, so I'm thinking of going low carb, but not NK until Christmas is over. I have a bad feeling I can look forward to induction flu over New Year's - it really hit me when I got into NK in October.
Hi Kate

Rum in the Eggnog, right? I love(d) eggnog but I never did acquire the taste for rum in it.

Sticking to basic LC is probably a good idea if you are facing a lot of social holiday eating occasions.

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Old 12-22-2012, 12:19 PM   #1113
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Book-The Art and Science of Low Carb Living

Chapter 16 pages 208 and 216

We - people helping new people
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:37 PM   #1114
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So which do you like best, Kosher or classic.

I just made a rollup with a LC tortilla, spread with softened cream cheese to which I had added diced onion and dill pickle, then a layer of ham, another layer of the CC, rolled it up and plan on having it for dinner tonight. Been craving that since I had a version of that as an appetizer at a party.

Last batch of toffee made, whew! I didn't keep exact track but I know I made over 80 lbs this season. I don't expect anymore orders before Christmas day. I do have 4 lbs to package and deliver tomorrow.

Best Maid must have gotten less than perfect cucumbers?
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:09 PM   #1115
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Rest, Buffy, rest. That's probably what you need most. What a terrific job you pulled off the last couple of weeks.

Can't find or fully remember what we used to call 'breakfast pudding' several years ago. Something like whisk two eggs with a little sweetner in a 2 cup Pyrex, add cream to about 1 1/2 cup mark. Cook in Microwave roughly 1.5 min on medium. Fun to watch it rise and fall as it cooks. Great stuff! Thought Buffy might like it with a little pumkin spice mix or syrup for this time of year.

I just bought Mt. Olive as well, Cheryl, bread and butter with 'no sugar added' (but Splenda). Very good light sweet taste with cream cheese wrapped in thin salami. Yum
Also an appetizer I found at a gathering. Dot
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:30 PM   #1116
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What a BUFFET of ideas and subjects flying around......

Red~ My two favorite Koontz books: Lightening and the one with the talking dog and the monster who hates the dog, and the girl and the boy. If I weren't having an incredible menopausal moment...I'd tell you the name of the book. PS: I read the Stand about once every five years.

Pickles...Vllasic.
I have a NOOK book from Barnes and Noble. LOVE IT. Drawback? Not as versatile as the KINDLE. I think an E-Reader can be downloaded into any computer/laptop/notebook.

Drjlocarb, I don't have the book. Can you specify what it is you're trying to say re: calories?

I'm wandering around here looking for something to eat and finally stuck a big ol' spoonful of coconut oil in my mouth.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:31 PM   #1117
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Buffy congrats on a job well done!
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:39 PM   #1118
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Buffy I hope you feel better soon . Rest and take care of yourself...the chicken broth sounds like a good idea.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:13 PM   #1119
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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
Book-The Art and Science of Low Carb Living

Chapter 16 pages 208 and 216

We - people helping new people
Man. It is an awesome book. You are right. I probably will reread it at some point.

But to your particular point about the calories - I didn't get the 30/35kCal from the book. I got it from one of JM's podcasts with Phinney.

The title of this thread is not "Art & Science Book Thread".

I did read it and I do refer to it. But I also read Wheat Belly. And Why We Get Fat. And I've listened to a lot of LC focused podcasts that JM created. And the blog of Drs. Eades. And Dr. Williams' blog.

Non-LC stuff too. Like that guy LaLonde that was on one of JM's podcast. He is not a proponent of LC at all but he is a calorie expert. He was horrified by the 1200 calorie limit that gets bandied about on LC forums. Stunned by it. Right after categorically refusing to state what was too low for calories.

Back to the 30/35kCal thing....

Phinney said it in response to JM's direct question about it. JM clarified that it was for goal weight with Phinney. So, in the context of that conversation, [paraphrasing Phinney - said that] 30/35kCal is goal weight calorie consumption which means you are eating at a caloric deficit if you are over that goal weight.

*That* is why it is the start point. *That* is why it is worthwhile to get everything else right before tweaking that particular part of the equation.

Let me just quote you on that 'we' stuff so I can be clear about it:

"PLEASE re-read the book so we can truly help the new people lose weight instead of maintaining or gaining."

You are telling me that I need to reread a book so 'we' can truly help people.

Is that not the finest example of the use of royal we ever? lol

Last edited by reddarin; 12-22-2012 at 04:15 PM.. Reason: Clarification about Phinney's remark on 30/35kCal
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:19 PM   #1120
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
So which do you like best, Kosher or classic.

I just made a rollup with a LC tortilla, spread with softened cream cheese to which I had added diced onion and dill pickle, then a layer of ham, another layer of the CC, rolled it up and plan on having it for dinner tonight. Been craving that since I had a version of that as an appetizer at a party.

Last batch of toffee made, whew! I didn't keep exact track but I know I made over 80 lbs this season. I don't expect anymore orders before Christmas day. I do have 4 lbs to package and deliver tomorrow.

Best Maid must have gotten less than perfect cucumbers?
I'm on the fence about the classic or Kosher. I think I like Kosher better. Try both to see.

80 pounds!!! Wow!

No, BM changed their dill formula. It is awful!
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:34 PM   #1121
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What a BUFFET of ideas and subjects flying around......

Red~ My two favorite Koontz books: Lightening and the one with the talking dog and the monster who hates the dog, and the girl and the boy. If I weren't having an incredible menopausal moment...I'd tell you the name of the book. PS: I read the Stand about once every five years.

Pickles...Vllasic.
I have a NOOK book from Barnes and Noble. LOVE IT. Drawback? Not as versatile as the KINDLE. I think an E-Reader can be downloaded into any computer/laptop/notebook.

Drjlocarb, I don't have the book. Can you specify what it is you're trying to say re: calories?

I'm wandering around here looking for something to eat and finally stuck a big ol' spoonful of coconut oil in my mouth.
Lightening was the first book I read from him! Couldn't have fit me better with the sci-fi bent it has.

That other book is Watchers

You mean to tell me there is a device that is less versatile than the Kindle??? How is that possible??? Are you pulling my leg? Is it a red brick?
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:37 PM   #1122
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I am open on the pickle question. I don't test out many brands after the Horrifying Great Value Brand Pickle Taste Test of 2009.

Last edited by reddarin; 12-22-2012 at 04:56 PM..
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:46 PM   #1123
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A new comer and late to this thread... I found this very interesting. It explains why I only weigh once a month and that's after my monthly.

I find it messed with my mind too much and created some weird, harmful thoughts when I weighed daily. Of course, many can weight daily and don't have the same issue. Just sharing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Weight Fluctuations

To paraphrase the esteemed Dr. Phinney....

Everyone has a 'window' of weight. The body is fairly lax about how much fluid it retains at any given time and this is generally about 4 pounds worth.

Think of it as one of those horizontal lava doodads with the blue fluid doing a seesaw motion.

So.

You are kicking butt and shedding weight. You weigh in at the low point on the seesaw with your fluid balance low.

A day or a week goes by and you weigh in again. You *have* lost 2 pounds. *But* the seesaw of fluid is now at its high end completely masking your 2 pounds and possibly even showing a gain.

The next day you weigh in again, having lost another .5 pound off your body for real but the blue fluid has tilted to its low end this time and WHOOSH you see a 5 pound drop!

That is why daily weigh ins are interesting but if you happen to be blessed with a wildly tilting blue doodad you are gonna have baffling daily, even weekly, weigh ins. Depending on how fine tuned your way of eating is and how fast or slow you lose weight, Phinney even pushed it out to a full month of this phenomenon masking a net loss - 1 pound a week lost for 4 pounds total for the month but your lava machine is tilted to the high point and you see a disappointing scale reading. No weight lost on the scale or even a few ounces gained.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:23 PM   #1124
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Thanks

I liked my blue lava post.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:26 PM   #1125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post

Drjlocarb, I don't have the book. Can you specify what it is you're trying to say re: calories?

I'm wandering around here looking for something to eat and finally stuck a big ol' spoonful of coconut oil in my mouth.
Coconut oil is good!

Calories are not as great as what redderin is saying. If you are new here, you need to have your calories lower that what he is saying. I am bowing out of this thread and hoping the new people won't hop on to his recommendations,.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:48 PM   #1126
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What we need desperately is a "OMG! That reddarin guy is so wrong about everything!!!1!!" thread. lol
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:59 PM   #1127
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What we need desperately is a "OMG! That reddarin guy is so wrong about everything!!!1!!" thread. lol
Right yoiu are!
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:03 PM   #1128
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Did you ask that question?
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:52 PM   #1129
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Actually, I have read and listened to some of the same sources as reddarin and his approach seems okay to me. Phinney said in the Jimmy Moore interview that it was not uncommon for those migrating to NK from another WOE not to experience weight loss at first as a result of gaining lean body mass back that they had lost with the other WOE.
So, starting out fairly high and then pulling back on the calories a few weeks or months in, if necessary, seems very reasonable. If you are in this for the long haul, a few extra months is nothing. And, ultimately, we are in this for the long haul, right?

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Old 12-22-2012, 08:09 PM   #1130
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Just adding my unsolicted two cents on calorie levels. I have been lurking on several NK threads, and have been reading as much as I can on the subject of nutritional ketosis. Lyle McDonald, who wrote The Ketogenic Diet, states that to lose body fat safely on a ketogenic diet, one should set calories at 20% below maintenance levels. He says that maintenance calories can be estimated at the rate of 15 to 16 calories per pound of current body weight. Reducing maintenance calories by 20% comes to roughly 12 to 13 calories per pound of current body weight. So, according to The Ketogenic Diet, a woman weighing 150 pounds would need to eat 2250 calories to maintain her weight (150 x 15), and should eat 1800 calories to lose weight (150 x 12). This is consistent with what Volek and Phinney wrote in The New Atkins For A New You, at page 107, discussing the Induction phase, which is essentially a ketogenic diet ("Women should shoot for a range of 1,500 to 1,800 caloreis a day, while men should aim for 1,800 to 2,200.") Okay, back to lurking for me. Happy Holidays to everyone.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:03 PM   #1131
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RedDarin, thanks for the encouragement. Yes, it was the rum in the eggnog (and bourbon...this woman makes serious eggnog!), followed later by 1/2 oz of mead, which I love, but which does not love me back. Acid stomach all night. Thank God for slippery elm bark...I gave my sister the rest of the mead, and I'm sticking to sugar-free, virgin eggnog from now on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
The first Odd Thomas book by Kootz is super duper good too.
It was - and did you hear they're working on a movie version of it? I'm not sure that's a good idea...I can see the imagery translating to film, but Odd's narrative really gave the book its flavor.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:07 PM   #1132
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Lyle McDonald...says that maintenance calories can be estimated at the rate of 15 to 16 calories per pound of current body weight. Reducing maintenance calories by 20% comes to roughly 12 to 13 calories per pound of current body weight.
Is that for current weight or goal weight? At my current weight, my reduced calorie goal for weight loss would be 2220, which seems awfully high.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:08 PM   #1133
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Last batch of toffee made, whew! I didn't keep exact track but I know I made over 80 lbs this season.
80 POUNDS? Sheesh, no wonder you're sick! Take it easy...you earned a rest!
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:38 AM   #1134
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RedDarin, thanks for the encouragement. Yes, it was the rum in the eggnog (and bourbon...this woman makes serious eggnog!), followed later by 1/2 oz of mead, which I love, but which does not love me back. Acid stomach all night. Thank God for slippery elm bark...I gave my sister the rest of the mead, and I'm sticking to sugar-free, virgin eggnog from now on!



It was - and did you hear they're working on a movie version of it? I'm not sure that's a good idea...I can see the imagery translating to film, but Odd's narrative really gave the book its flavor.


Hmmm. With today's special effects technology it could be a killer movie. But you are right about the problem of narration. There are tons of bad movies where they couldn't figure out how to transition that key part of a book to film.

Like Hearts In Atlantis. Excellent book and sucky movie. The King movies that are based on kick butt books that aren't crap are unique lol.

For example, The Green Mile! Wow!! Incredible book *and* incredible movie.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:03 AM   #1135
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Originally Posted by SFGirl99 View Post
a woman weighing 150 pounds would need to eat 2250 calories to maintain her weight (150 x 15), and should eat 1800 calories to lose weight (150 x 12).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryKate View Post
Is that for current weight or goal weight? At my current weight, my reduced calorie goal for weight loss would be 2220, which seems awfully high.
Goal weight Kate.

It works out to about 26.5kCal/kg for weight loss and about 33kCal/kg for maintenance. Not super unreasonably low to me.

For you that is right at 1800 cals for 150 goal weight. And then pushing your cals up to 2250 when you reach goal to stabilize at that weight.



Edit: SFGirl clarified that this is indeed for current weight not goal weight in a subsequent post. /end_edit

Last edited by reddarin; 12-23-2012 at 06:55 AM.. Reason: New information
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:34 AM   #1136
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Lyle McDonald, who wrote The Ketogenic Diet

From the Paleo Hacks site:

"You'll never find someone as hostile to Ancestral Eating as Lyle McDonald. He even trolls pro-Paleo dieters on Facebook and other social media for some sort of kick"



I love this Lyle guy! I'm browsing his body recomposition site now.

This book, though, is 15 years out of date with no new editions? Subsequent related books are $90 bucks on Amazon wow lol. The keto book is $50 plus s&h from his site directly. Looks like all of his stuff is substantially less expensive if you get it directly from him.

He is a bodybuilder? As a bodybuilder he must be unique in the entire world to be hostile to the Paleo way of eating lol.

What does he say about protein requirements from the Ketogenic book?
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:50 AM   #1137
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Is that for current weight or goal weight? At my current weight, my reduced calorie goal for weight loss would be 2220, which seems awfully high.

According to Lyle McDonald's book, The Ketogenic Diet, that is for current body weight, not goal weight. He explains that many dieters restrict calories too much, which can slow down one's metabolic rate.

This book also cautions against setting caloric levels based on one's goal body weight, because many dieters set their goal weight too low, which means they would not be eating enough calories and their metabolic rate could slow down.

The 20% reduction in calories (current body weight x 12 calories), is intended to create a caloric reduction of about 3500 calories per week, which should result in a loss of one pound per week. The book explains that these levels are starting points, and that some people may need to reduce calorie levels if they are not losing, "but this should be done cautiously to avoid muscle loss and metabolic slowdown." (The Ketogenic Diet, p. 97).
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:04 AM   #1138
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Is that for current weight or goal weight? At my current weight, my reduced calorie goal for weight loss would be 2220, which seems awfully high.
I forgot to add in my last reply that The Ketogenic Diet book also indicates that for people wanting to lose fat faster (2 pounds per week), a maximum caloric deficit of 1000 calories per day can be used. He warns that this level may be too low for some people, and states that it is often best to create this deficit using a combination of exercise and calorie reduction (ie, burn 300 calories a day through exercise, and reduce calories by 700 per day to achieve maximum caloric deficit of 1000 calories per day). Again, he warns against setting calories too low, and explains that several studies have shown that diets with very low caloric levels (ie, 1000 calories per day), have resulted in a significant slow down of metabolic rate.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:02 AM   #1139
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Very interesting discussion going on regarding the calories. I haven't been logging my food so I don't know what calorie range I am in but I have to say, due to being on this board, I quit worrying about calories, I just eat to satisfaction, working to get adequate protein in my diet and eat as much fat as needed to satisfy and fill me. I was happy being able to lose slowly while being very satisfied with what I was eating and this month has been more than super rewarding on the weight loss. I am in my 4th month now and the only thing I can figure out is that my body has become keto adapted.

Since I am lazy and let Red do all my schoolwork for me, "this has been discussed before", I don't know the whys and how, I just read enough to figure out what to do, then do it. If that works, I keep doing it. I wish I liked to study the information and learn and retain for it, but alas, I would rather do other things and thankfully, I ran across this thread early on as I was starting my journey back to LC.

Yet, another loss for me this morning, a small one but I am blown away by my losses this month.

I think I do feel a little better, thanks to all of you who posted about it, and I am getting lots of rest. I think the 2nd antibiotic the Dr. called in is doing the trick.

MerryKate, I love your new profile picture, keep forgetting to tell you that. We are still waiting on Red's. I just see him as having big paws.......
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:09 AM   #1140
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buffy, get the kindle app for ipad then you can buy anything in the kindle store on amazon.
Thank you so much for telling me to do this. I downloaded the app yesterday, then downloaded a 99 cent book from Amazon for Kindle, solved my problem of not being able to read in bed as Mr. Buffy always complained about my reading lamp bothering him. I started out by looking at the free or cheap books to make sure I liked reading off my Ipad, I love it. You have opened a new world to me, LOL. I forget what all I can do with my Ipad. I did win a Kindle once but after getting my Ipad I gave it to one of my DD's.

I have a friend who has devoured all the Clancy and Ludlow books.
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