High Fat NK 80/15/5 - December Version

[theLossgirl]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Hey stranger! How are you doing?!? Are you pigging out as per our previous discussion??? And thank you

lol. Stress level is much better and I'm gaining a little weight back (which is a good thing b/c I'd gotten too low). Pigging out? Nah. I want to gain it back properly. I did have a VERY decadent dessert a couple of days ago: chocolate lava cake with a little bit of ice cream. YUMMMMM!

Congrats on the cigarettes! I thought you would have caved by now. J/K! So glad that you are heading into 2013 being all-around healthier!

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by theLossgirl

lol. Stress level is much better and I'm gaining a little weight back (which is a good thing b/c I'd gotten too low). Pigging out? Nah. I want to gain it back properly. I did have a VERY decadent dessert a couple of days ago: chocolate lava cake with a little bit of ice cream. YUMMMMM!

Congrats on the cigarettes! I thought you would have caved by now. J/K! So glad that you are heading into 2013 being all-around healthier!

That's good! Sure the lava cake sounds good but can it compare to some delicious bacon in significant quantities?

Whew! It has only been in the past week or so that I've finally felt some slack in the random but powerful cravings. And only in this past week have I felt like I could actually get back on track. Today is day 45! I added a little day counter to my spreadsheet lol

[dazygyrl]

fyi...non-meat protein sources are not *nearly* satiating as MEAT!!

just sayin'...sigh....

[theLossgirl]

Originally Posted by reddarin

That's good! Sure the lava cake sounds good but can it compare to some delicious bacon in significant quantities?

Whew! It has only been in the past week or so that I've finally felt some slack in the random but powerful cravings. And only in this past week have I felt like I could actually get back on track. Today is day 45! I added a little day counter to my spreadsheet lol

45 days is AWESOME! You must be so proud of yourself, and deservedly so!

Now that you mention bacon, that does sound delicious. My son loves bacon, so it sounds like he and I may be having a little bacon breakfast party tomorrow. With some buttery scrambled eggs!

What would you suggest eating so that I gain a few pounds back, but stop gaining again when I want to?

I'm sure you answered this, but did you use any products to make quitting smoking easier, or did you just cold turkey it? Either way, KUDOS!

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by theLossgirl

45 days is AWESOME! You must be so proud of yourself, and deservedly so!

Now that you mention bacon, that does sound delicious. My son loves bacon, so it sounds like he and I may be having a little bacon breakfast party tomorrow. With some buttery scrambled eggs!

What would you suggest eating so that I gain a few pounds back, but stop gaining again when I want to?

I'm sure you answered this, but did you use any products to make quitting smoking easier, or did you just cold turkey it? Either way, KUDOS!

Thanks! I just quit cold turkey!! Frankly, I really can't believe I was able to do it. It isn't like I haven't tried that a few times in the past

For the weight gain....

Whatever is zero carb or as close to it as you can get. Since you are intentionally eating extra calories fatty protein, like the bacon, is good or maybe extra cream cheese clouds.

If you do it without the carbs you should be able to stop the gain almost as quickly as you go back to maintenance levels of calories.

[sasonnier]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Actually, Phinney contradicts what he said in that latest book in later interviews/podcast. The long term stalls podcast was done well after the book came out.

Perhaps Volek and Phinney mildly disagree on the optimal formula?

At any rate, I phrased it to be as generic as possible and I linked to the thread so any interested person could find out for themselves - that thread is packed with good information.

I agree on the body fat thing. I don't use ya'lls formula so I never have paid much attention to that part of it. But I'll tweak the Intro for January and on so it is clear that 18% is just an example.

I appreciate that clarification- I just read Phinney and Volek's Performance book and got all confused about my protein consumption b/c they say in the book to get 0.6-1.0 g of protein for every lb of LBM. So the higher version is their updated, most preferred level of protein consumption?

I was also saddened to see that while I am trying to lose weight I should expect to limit my fat consumption to the lower end of the range (65-85%)....I have regularly been consuming 80-85% fat.

Also, Red- I wanted to thank you for making such a clear intro- I plan on referring to it often!

Just wanted to send a shout out to you for quitting smoking...I was a smoker in jr. and high school- luckily quit when I had my wisdom teeth removed (which was helpful)...I remember that I kept telling myself "I went 3 weeks without smoking, I can go one more day..."

Becky- I went nuts on PB while we were a way- i gained 5lbs at the drop of a hat and I'm having a hard time letting go of the nuts (although the last few days have been better)...I can totally relate. In all likelyhood, the nuts put your carbs and protein consumption too high to maintain ketosis- if you ate as many nuts as i did :-(

Welcome to the newbies, and congrats on the loss Mizzcase and Buffy (and I feel like I'm missing someone??)

[mizzcase]

red, just wanna say congrats on the feat. Quitting smoking is a big deal! How do you find its affected your sense of taste?

[Blonde with a Rose]

Sitting here on fit day, trying to analyze and clarify without being mystified. Holy crap, this is the first time EVER that I'm looking at my numbers at the end of the day and saying "I have to eat more? I have to eat more!" Even with everything added in, including food and fat I haven't eaten yet, it looks like this:

Protein: 102.1 (92)
Fat 154.5 (198)
CALS 1810 (1841 floor)
Carbs 4.6

Planning on having pot roast and 2 extra Tbs of VCO, 1 extra Tbs butter.

So my next question ~ Would macadamia nuts be a good addition? I have given up eating other kinds of nuts because the carbs are so high and addictive (it's hard to stop).

[portcop01]

Here my # what y'all think...no nuts for 3 days now..
Cals=1420
Fat=142...83%
Carbs=9.5.... 2%
protein=52.3....15%

[mizzcase]

Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose

So my next question ~ Would macadamia nuts be a good addition? I have given up eating other kinds of nuts because the carbs are so high and addictive (it's hard to stop).

I eat 1 oz macadamia nuts every day! They are so satisfying. I don't have problems restraining myself either, just weigh out an ounce and put the can away.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

I appreciate that clarification- I just read Phinney and Volek's Performance book and got all confused about my protein consumption b/c they say in the book to get 0.6-1.0 g of protein for every lb of LBM. So the higher version is their updated, most preferred level of protein consumption?

What an awesome question!

This is the important part: "...for every lb of LBM".

What they are doing in the Performance book, and it is different from the podcasts and the Living book, is adding a level of granularity for performance athletes who have a target for sculpting their body and finer control of their resulting body fat.

Contrast that with the more general 1.5g/kg that Phinney says in every other instance when he is asked. It must mean that the 1.5g figure/formula covers the broad majority of people. I mean, it doesn't take any more effort for him to say the .6 per LBM formula - it is 7(?) extra words? It cannot be a 'this is more complicated than that so he just doesn't say it' or he would use pounds instead of kg for the "easier you're too slow for the harder formula" one - he's American and he knows that layman, his target audience, do not use the metric system.

Interesting, no?

And the higher version of 1.5g/kg is not necessarily higher because the Performance formula is based on LBM not total body mass at goal. Depending on how you tweak the Performance formula the range of protein is 1.1 to 1.8 grams per goal weight kg. I was curious about that last month and I figured out the range of protein: "Technical note: This gives you a range of 1.1 to 1.8g per goal kg weight."

So, 1.5g/kg is actually right in the middle of the Performance formula.

Another thing to consider is that the Living book was written *for* doctors in particular. Phinney has said that many times. He wanted to educate health care providers on the benefits and implementation of low carb. If the Performance book's approach is superior then why hasn't Phinney said that every time he's mentioned the Living book? Particularly since the target of the Living book is other doctors - he'd want them to have the best information so he'd say '...if you are a doctor get our latest greatest book the Performance book'. And he wouldn't be concerned about it being too complicated for them.

I wax verbose.

Originally Posted by sasonnier

I was also saddened to see that while I am trying to lose weight I should expect to limit my fat consumption to the lower end of the range (65-85%)....I have regularly been consuming 80-85% fat.

I was doing really well hitting consistently around 72% so don't fear the lower end

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Also, Red- I wanted to thank you for making such a clear intro- I plan on referring to it often!

Thank you (and everyone else that has mentioned it)! That sucker took a lot of effort this month!

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Just wanted to send a shout out to you for quitting smoking...I was a smoker in jr. and high school- luckily quit when I had my wisdom teeth removed (which was helpful)...I remember that I kept telling myself "I went 3 weeks without smoking, I can go one more day..."

Thank you! I'm still smarting from gaining weight and losing NK. Can't wait to get back to losing again.

[SouthernGirl61]

Hello December! Wow, the year just flew by!
Thanks to Darin for setting us up again, and a great start of info. Wow, it's been 45 days! That is huge! Darin, would you please run my numbers? I had them in a enote and I appear to have "misplaced" errrr, deleted it. I am 51 yo, 5'4", (very) small frame, current weight 127, goal is 120 (if I ever see it in this lifetime!!), exercise is moderate, tons of walking, thank you.
Buffy, your loss is great!
Becky, hang in there, you had a good trip, so this will fly off. You may want to nix the nuts for a couple of weeks...they are usually what gets me. We don't eat out much at all anymore, and that is something for us!
Hi Tablis! I've enjoyed your post the past few days, trying to get caught up between games today!
Welcome again TerriMM!
Hi Blonde! Great numbers!
Hi Mizz, how are you doing today?
Shelley, I understand your frustrations...I am there myself. But I am soooo hopeful these new BHRT adds will help me find me again.
Hi Janet, I love your avi! Welcome!
Dazy, good job on the loss! I haven't done the net carb thing since old days of Atkins. Found it was better to accept the total carbs.
Cheryl, you should know from my endless rants on cholestrol that arteries don't clog from fat!!! I understand your frusrations, life happens and it can be stressful. LC is the healthy way...sugar will make your heart hurt!
Phillip that is a great gain of muscle, wish I had that determination!
Hi Deborah, good news you are getting out of stressville!

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose

Sitting here on fit day, trying to analyze and clarify without being mystified. Holy crap, this is the first time EVER that I'm looking at my numbers at the end of the day and saying "I have to eat more? I have to eat more!" Even with everything added in, including food and fat I haven't eaten yet, it looks like this:

Protein: 102.1 (92)
Fat 154.5 (198)
CALS 1810 (1841 floor)
Carbs 4.6

Planning on having pot roast and 2 extra Tbs of VCO, 1 extra Tbs butter.

So my next question ~ Would macadamia nuts be a good addition? I have given up eating other kinds of nuts because the carbs are so high and addictive (it's hard to stop).

Numbers look good.

Nuts are up to you. I can't buy those dang almonds because I cannot control myself. Even when I was chugging along before quitting smoking fully in NK I had to stop buying them because I couldn't resist them.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by portcop01

Here my # what y'all think...no nuts for 3 days now..
Cals=1420
Fat=142...83%
Carbs=9.5.... 2%
protein=52.3....15%

Calories and protein are really low Becky but looks good otherwise. Good job on giving the nuts the old heave ho!

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

red, just wanna say congrats on the feat. Quitting smoking is a big deal! How do you find its affected your sense of taste?

Thank you

So far my taste seems unaffected. My sense of smell has recovered quite a bit. My truck only sticks when I first get into it lol.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61

Darin, would you please run my numbers? I had them in a enote and I appear to have "misplaced" errrr, deleted it. I am 51 yo, 5'4", (very) small frame, current weight 127, goal is 120 (if I ever see it in this lifetime!!), exercise is moderate, tons of walking, thank you.
Buffy, your loss is great!

Thanks and of course...

Goal Weight: 120

Exercise Page:
(x/2.2)*0.8 = 44
(x/2.2)*1.2 = 65
(x/2.2)*1.5 = 82
(x/2.2)*1.8 = 98

Dr. Phinney's recommendation is 1.5g/kg that results in 82g protein daily.

For a goal weight of 120 the calorie goal would be : 1909 (35kCal/kg) with a floor of 1636 (30kCal/kg - for an obese and/or very sedentary person).

Calories: 1909

Protein grams: 82 (328 ~ calories)
Fat grams: 176 (1584 ~ calories)
Carb grams: ??

I can't remember mentioning it before but your job, all that walking, is just like doing aerobic exercise. The exercise is good for ya but the type means that your resting metabolism is probably depressed more than it would be otherwise. You are a slow loser?

That is interesting because it probably means that retail workers have the same challenges.

Phinney doesn't really mention frame size, that I've heard, but in your case with a very small frame I might start at the 35kCal number and gradually work down a little if needed.

[SouthernGirl61]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Thanks and of course...

Goal Weight: 120

Exercise Page:
(x/2.2)*0.8 = 44
(x/2.2)*1.2 = 65
(x/2.2)*1.5 = 82
(x/2.2)*1.8 = 98

Dr. Phinney's recommendation is 1.5g/kg that results in 82g protein daily.

For a goal weight of 120 the calorie goal would be : 1909 (35kCal/kg) with a floor of 1636 (30kCal/kg - for an obese and/or very sedentary person).

Calories: 1909

Protein grams: 82 (328 ~ calories)
Fat grams: 176 (1584 ~ calories)
Carb grams: ??

I can't remember mentioning it before but your job, all that walking, is just like doing aerobic exercise. The exercise is good for ya but the type means that your resting metabolism is probably depressed more than it would be otherwise. You are a slow loser?

That is interesting because it probably means that retail workers have the same challenges.

Phinney doesn't really mention frame size, that I've heard, but in your case with a very small frame I might start at the 35kCal number and gradually work down a little if needed.

Yes I walk all day it seems. I am in a building at the edge of campus, it's 10 minutes through buildings, up stairs, down stairs, to the main facility. I walk fast too, seems to be a characteristic of health care folks. I do sit in meetings a lot, but now more on webconferences, which I tend to take standing, stretching much of the time. I am a very slow loser. However, I am hoping that will change. I have new determination after getting the BHRT going now. Likely that defect was part of my issue. Thanks so much for the numbers!

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Clueless

At least I can come here for support.

Ya know we are here for you

[dazygyrl]

Red, which protein equation do you prefer? I think I have been figuring to low. I have been using the goal wt*(1-.2)*.6 that gives me 63 g on the low end. Phinney's 1.5*goal wt kg gives me 88 g for a low end.

[mizzcase]

Happy Sunday y'all.. 122.8 here this morning, -.4 from yesterday. I am continually amazed as I feel like I am eating so much yet still losing (at a pretty fast pace for my current height and weight as well).. was almost positive the shrimp and vodka and club yesterday would make me gain or stall, but guess not.

Yesterdays stats: 1693 calories, 22g carbs, 124g fat, 77g protein

How is everyone doing today?

[sasonnier]

Good morning everyone!!!

Mizzcase- congrats on the loss!

I had a loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so happy, I hope it doesn't go back up- I am down to 143.6 (from 145.2 a few days ago). Before getting on the scale I always pray that i didn't gain- YESSA!!

I also feel like something clicked yesterday- I felt like I had a mild hangover all day (w/out the fun of the alcohol)- i had a dulling headache and an uncomfortableness in my tummy all day- never really starving at all (whaat???). I had my usual T of OO and 1oz of HWC in my coffee and didn't eat until 2 (that is our typical time for lunch on Saturdays). I made roasted garlic that I then poured Olive oil on- oh my- I couldn't get enough of it- poured it on my chicken and green beans. The quantity of food was less than a typical saturday lunch for me (which tend to be bigger), yet it was still bigger than a weekday lunch- but I was not stuffed, and pleasantly full all day. I ate again at 8:30pm more b/c I wanted to- not b/c I was really hungry. I probably would have been better off skipping it all together- but it was only a couple of oz of cc and olives- so nothing major anyways.
This was the first time I really felt a shift- I hope it's hear to stay! not the weight- but the appetite shift

[mizzcase]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Good morning everyone!!!

Mizzcase- congrats on the loss!

I had a loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so happy, I hope it doesn't go back up- I am down to 143.6 (from 145.2 a few days ago). Before getting on the scale I always pray that i didn't gain- YESSA!!

I also feel like something clicked yesterday- I felt like I had a mild hangover all day (w/out the fun of the alcohol)- i had a dulling headache and an uncomfortableness in my tummy all day- never really starving at all (whaat???). I had my usual T of OO and 1oz of HWC in my coffee and didn't eat until 2 (that is our typical time for lunch on Saturdays). I made roasted garlic that I then poured Olive oil on- oh my- I couldn't get enough of it- poured it on my chicken and green beans. The quantity of food was less than a typical saturday lunch for me (which tend to be bigger), yet it was still bigger than a weekday lunch- but I was not stuffed, and pleasantly full all day. I ate again at 8:30pm more b/c I wanted to- not b/c I was really hungry. I probably would have been better off skipping it all together- but it was only a couple of oz of cc and olives- so nothing major anyways.
This was the first time I really felt a shift- I hope it's hear to stay! not the weight- but the appetite shift

Fantastic! Seeing that scale go down is the best feeling! I am still waiting for my appetite to die down a little bit, glad to see yours is behaving! How does olive oil taste it your coffee? Do you use light or extra virgin? I was thinking yesterday about it, never saw anyone do it though.

[tablis]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Good morning everyone!!!

Mizzcase- congrats on the loss!

I had a loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so happy, I hope it doesn't go back up- I am down to 143.6 (from 145.2 a few days ago). Before getting on the scale I always pray that i didn't gain- YESSA!!

I also feel like something clicked yesterday- I felt like I had a mild hangover all day (w/out the fun of the alcohol)- i had a dulling headache and an uncomfortableness in my tummy all day- never really starving at all (whaat???). I had my usual T of OO and 1oz of HWC in my coffee and didn't eat until 2 (that is our typical time for lunch on Saturdays). I made roasted garlic that I then poured Olive oil on- oh my- I couldn't get enough of it- poured it on my chicken and green beans. The quantity of food was less than a typical saturday lunch for me (which tend to be bigger), yet it was still bigger than a weekday lunch- but I was not stuffed, and pleasantly full all day. I ate again at 8:30pm more b/c I wanted to- not b/c I was really hungry. I probably would have been better off skipping it all together- but it was only a couple of oz of cc and olives- so nothing major anyways.
This was the first time I really felt a shift- I hope it's hear to stay! not the weight- but the appetite shift

[tablis]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Happy Sunday y'all.. 122.8 here this morning, -.4 from yesterday. I am continually amazed as I feel like I am eating so much yet still losing (at a pretty fast pace for my current height and weight as well).. was almost positive the shrimp and vodka and club yesterday would make me gain or stall, but guess not.

Yesterdays stats: 1693 calories, 22g carbs, 124g fat, 77g protein

How is everyone doing today?

I'm pretty amazed too! Man you are doing great! that's how it was for me when I did LC the first time, everytime I got on the scale I saw a loss!

I forgot- were stalled and that's whay you started NK?

So happy for you!

[sasonnier]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Fantastic! Seeing that scale go down is the best feeling! I am still waiting for my appetite to die down a little bit, glad to see yours is behaving! How does olive oil taste it your coffee? Do you use light or extra virgin? I was thinking yesterday about it, never saw anyone do it though.

I don't put the EVOO in my coffee- I down 1 T straight (w/my nose plugged) and follow it w/ a glass of water every morning- I do it b/c it helps move things along for me- the best thing I have ever found for that

I only hope my appetite stays down- day by day I guess

[shunsweets]

Hello everybody. Just your daily lurker checking in. Had a hard time finding you for Dec!
I am diabetic and in maintenance so don't have a lot of exciting weight loss or changes to report but can assure you that this diet works for maintenance and helps with blood glucose control as well.

So glad to continue to follow all of your progress. I feel like you are all friends and will chime in rarely but am here several times a day. Guess I'm a little shy.

[tablis]

Originally Posted by shunsweets

Hello everybody. Just your daily lurker checking in. Had a hard time finding you for Dec!
I am diabetic and in maintenance so don't have a lot of exciting weight loss or changes to report but can assure you that this diet works for maintenance and helps with blood glucose control as well.

So glad to continue to follow all of your progress. I feel like you are all friends and will chime in rarely but am here several times a day. Guess I'm a little shy.

thanks for saying hello! glad this woe is working for you

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by dazygyrl

Red, which protein equation do you prefer? I think I have been figuring to low. I have been using the goal wt*(1-.2)*.6 that gives me 63 g on the low end. Phinney's 1.5*goal wt kg gives me 88 g for a low end.

I am not a performance athlete and I'll be perfectly happy with being just skinny if not sculpted so I use the 1.5g/kg formula.

Another thing about the Performance formula is that huge range of protein. It allows for a heck of a lot of flexibility. BUT that means that you are also responsible for determining the right protein grams for your exercise regimen and your carefully thought out exercise focused menu plan. AND you have to know what body fat percentage is appropriate not just for your sex but for the sort of exercise regimen you are engaged in and the way you want/need your body to be molded.

[portcop01]

Sophie that's great news.everday gets better than the day before mizz..great job on lost.
I to lost 1.8 that's now 167 again not back to my vacation weight of 164.2 but I'm working on it.
You no I must have ate enough of the nuts, cheese,and avocado .to trow me out of NK,cause I even felt a little depressed which I had not felt in a long time,but feeling so much better this morning.ya ya

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Happy Sunday y'all.. 122.8 here this morning, -.4 from yesterday. I am continually amazed as I feel like I am eating so much yet still losing (at a pretty fast pace for my current height and weight as well)..

Congrats on the loss!

Originally Posted by mizzcase

was almost positive the shrimp and vodka and club yesterday would make me gain or stall, but guess not.

Last month, I think, I got a huge steak and cooked it and I ended up eating the whole dang thing. Blew my calorie goal and my protein goal out of the water you sunk my battleship style. I lost like a pound and a half the next morning on the scale lol!!!