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Old 12-09-2012, 11:00 AM   #721
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Originally Posted by shelley View Post
Excellent Sophie!!! My new trainer/nutritionist said this is important and to have about 1 cup of salad and 1 cup of veggies/day. They don't add up to many carbs at all. She said dark green stuff, but not to sweat over a couple chunks of carrot or other colorful things to spice up the salad.
I find that really dark greens (i.e. kale) is higher in total carbs.

btw...what type of dancer were you? I studied modern all through high school and college- I really miss it, but alas- my knees are shot (one of my main reasons for wanting to drop the extra weight).
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:28 AM   #722
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I find that really dark greens (i.e. kale) is higher in total carbs.

btw...what type of dancer were you? I studied modern all through high school and college- I really miss it, but alas- my knees are shot (one of my main reasons for wanting to drop the extra weight).
Interesting about kale. My trainer said to break it up in 4" or so pieces, spritz it with olive oil, salt it and "bake it" for about 10 minutes stirring it to make "kale chips". She said the oil/salt makes them like potato chips as you just taste the oil and salt! Interesting it's higher in carbs, but I doubt you'd be eating too much if you had "chips" with a leaf or two.

I was into ballet and traditional jazz...not at all modern, but glad you enjoyed it. I took classes for years and started teaching ballet in my early 20's, and then learned jazz and loved it (Bob Fosse type) I taught for about 30+ years until my knees gave out and the orthopedic surgeon said (either stop teaching or prepare for knee and hip replacements before your time!) I retired at the end of the school year.

I was in a jazz dance company in Bombay, India and that was the most fun I've ever had...but also got horribly injured (knee ligament and meniscus tears) doing what the choreographer wanted to "try"....2 of us got knocked out forever from dance doing "knee drops"....not good. We weren't allowed knee pads and he was insistent! Dumb! He learned, but we paid the price.

I always envied people who could do modern...you had to be "free at heart and mind" and I am so geared to "rules" and what is right. Old school training I guess (since I'm much older than you are!!!!) I too miss it horribly and am constantly thinking of teaching again...to old women like me! h a ha
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:06 PM   #723
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Interesting about kale.
Kale is relatively low in carbs. A large serving--67 gm (1 cup chopped)-- has 5.86 g carbs & 2.87 g protein, according to the USDA database.

Spinach has 2.44 g carbs for the same 67 gms and 1.92 g. protein. But it cooks down to a lot smaller.

Romaine has 2.20 g carbs and 0.82 g protein in 67 gm.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:31 PM   #724
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Sophie I've been very busy with store so I'm only eating around 50-55 grams protein im sopose to get 91 I've not eat any veggies cup back just a little on hwc and went from Steiva packets to the liquid.also I've not been to stressed out..I decided I can not change yesterday ,I can not think about tommorrow cause its not here and it never turns out like I plan any way,so now I only concentrate on today!! makes me much happier.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:55 PM   #725
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Ketostix are famous for being unreliable. But they are inexpensive so they are popular for side of the barn type testing. If you really want to know, you need to do the blood test thing but the strips are expensive - $2 to $6 per strip - from what I've read.



Ketosis does not guarantee weight loss. Sad but true. It is just a metric. A piece of data for the weight loss puzzle but not the only piece which is why macros are part of it.

You mean NK when you say ketosis I reckon. As little as two weeks with the norm being two to four weeks and outliers as much as six months apparently.



Yes. There are a lot of very successful diets other than LC. They all have their success stories and following.

You mean to say lose weight without having the NK range of blood ketones and I think the answer has to be yes if for no other reason than the success of non-LC diets for weight loss. It is probably more about caloric deficit than what is being eaten though although LC has the benefit of not spiking fat-retaining insulin levels.

I think the science is behind LC as being the best way to lose weight, keep it off and the most healthy way of eating (without regard to weight loss) hands down period end of sentence whoa nelly how high is the water mama she said it is five feet high and rising don't take your guns to town Bill leave your guns at home son two inches of water in a lonely ditch was a grave for ira hayes down down down in a ring of fire a ring of fire I keep a close watch on this heart of mine I keep my eyes open all the time I keep the ends out for the tie that binds because you're mine I walk the line.

I don't know you well Red so I'm going to assume you haven't lost your mind. Thanks for the advise. Regardless of ketosis readings I'm sticking with NK. I'll give it as much time as it needs. I do feel much better than before.

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Love your new photo!!!!

Re: hot-flash......I have noticed that the CO and MCT oils make that happen to me within minutes and it seems to last 24 hours!!! I think it's the thermogenic effect? Is that right everyone? I find that I am wearing "summer tshirts" in the 20 degree temps and feeling comfy (for short stints going outside for something). With poor adrenals and thyroid function in my past, I used to be bundled up indoors and was still cold. I prefer this "constant warmth"!
Thanks Shelley! Yeah, I freeze my husband out every night with a bedside fan, and sleep in sleeveless shirts. I'm beginning to think the hot flashes will follow me to the grave......
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:09 PM   #726
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Kale is relatively low in carbs. A large serving--67 gm (1 cup chopped)-- has 5.86 g carbs & 2.87 g protein, according to the USDA database.

Spinach has 2.44 g carbs for the same 67 gms and 1.92 g. protein. But it cooks down to a lot smaller.

Romaine has 2.20 g carbs and 0.82 g protein in 67 gm.

One cup of spinach cooks down to like.. 1 bite for me lol.. sometimes I think what's the point?
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #727
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Who doesn't love Johnny Cash that is over 30?
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:12 PM   #728
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Yeah, always try to weigh not measure food.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:15 PM   #729
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I'm curious to know how you know you were at 1.5g/kg for the past 4 years though? You logged for 4 years? Wow! When I stalled for just a few months I got too discouraged to log so there is a months long gap in my food journal.)
I didn't actually pay attention to protein grams until I started hcg two years ago, then I logged it. But yes, I have weight loss records going back to 2001...more consistently starting in 2006 when I started lowcarbing and using ****** and then another site for food journaling. You are right...in periods where gaining in my pre2006 weight watcher days, there are no records!

On hcg, I found I needed the protein higher to keep the starvation feelings away (and it is pretty much a starvation level diet), and when I transitioned back to atkins afterwards for maintenance it translated into higher levels for me and I continued to feel the need for those levels.

I personally know the levels were too high for me because when I came back off this past summer when trying Optimal Diet/NK I had many episodes of hypoglycemia. This wouldn't necessarily apply to everyone, but I have the inherited version of hypo. Normally I"m symptom free eating lowcarb, but when I started NK with lowered protein not only was I hungry no matter how much fat I ate, but I had low blood sugar in the morning (50s and 60s). That in general is an indication your body is using excessive insulin to handle either excess carbs or protein.

I'm rambling but it would be nice if there were an easy way to find your sweet spot.

Does phinney say 1.5 for kg total weight or LBM? That gives such different numbers, especially for us ladies. I know when I was at my heaviest my total kg was 104 and my LBM kg was just 49.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:23 PM   #730
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Does anyone else find this to be a hauntingly beautiful tune? It is called Ghost Lullaby. I love it! Can't get enough heh

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:41 PM   #731
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I personally know the levels were too high for me because when I came back off this past summer when trying Optimal Diet/NK I had many episodes of hypoglycemia. This wouldn't necessarily apply to everyone, but I have the inherited version of hypo. Normally I"m symptom free eating lowcarb, but when I started NK with lowered protein not only was I hungry no matter how much fat I ate, but I had low blood sugar in the morning (50s and 60s). That in general is an indication your body is using excessive insulin to handle either excess carbs or protein.
Well, I apologize but I missed the obvious question regarding your stating that you were 1.5g/kg for 4 years without results. You were also following the other tenets of NK? Moderate protein without the other legs of the NK stool doesn't really mean anything. So, you were under 50g total carbs? In particular, per what they say on the Performance thread with the athlete's formula, you ate an exact level of carbs those four years too? And healthy non-PUFAs made up the biggest ratio of your macros? You were NK before NK was cool lol

What level of Protein_grams/kg did you start NK with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulabob View Post
Does phinney say 1.5 for kg total weight or LBM? That gives such different numbers, especially for us ladies. I know when I was at my heaviest my total kg was 104 and my LBM kg was just 49.
LBM as a metric is part of the Performance book - written specifically for athletes who wanted to fine tune their diet to fit their fine tuned lifestyle.

1.5g/kg is for ideal weight. Otherwise you'd be over or under consuming protein.

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:43 PM   #732
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Interesting about kale. My trainer said to break it up in 4" or so pieces, spritz it with olive oil, salt it and "bake it" for about 10 minutes stirring it to make "kale chips". She said the oil/salt makes them like potato chips as you just taste the oil and salt! Interesting it's higher in carbs, but I doubt you'd be eating too much if you had "chips" with a leaf or two.

I was into ballet and traditional jazz...not at all modern, but glad you enjoyed it. I took classes for years and started teaching ballet in my early 20's, and then learned jazz and loved it (Bob Fosse type) I taught for about 30+ years until my knees gave out and the orthopedic surgeon said (either stop teaching or prepare for knee and hip replacements before your time!) I retired at the end of the school year.

I was in a jazz dance company in Bombay, India and that was the most fun I've ever had...but also got horribly injured (knee ligament and meniscus tears) doing what the choreographer wanted to "try"....2 of us got knocked out forever from dance doing "knee drops"....not good. We weren't allowed knee pads and he was insistent! Dumb! He learned, but we paid the price.

I always envied people who could do modern...you had to be "free at heart and mind" and I am so geared to "rules" and what is right. Old school training I guess (since I'm much older than you are!!!!) I too miss it horribly and am constantly thinking of teaching again...to old women like me! h a ha
I've tried the kale chips- not my favorite (but then again, kale isn't my favorite green)

My modern teacher was trained in classic Fosse jazz. I am the opposite i guess...hated the rigid structure of ballet, but envious of the core strength it produced. I am more free spirited, which is what I loved (and still do) about modern. That's a bummer on the injuries- I was never that pro- the most dancing I did was for my university dance company. At one point, i wanted to focus on choreography and study dance therapy- but never did pursue that- I told myself it was b/c of my knees...but who knows- there are choreographers more handicapped than me.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:44 PM   #733
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Sophie I've been very busy with store so I'm only eating around 50-55 grams protein im sopose to get 91 I've not eat any veggies cup back just a little on hwc and went from Steiva packets to the liquid.also I've not been to stressed out..I decided I can not change yesterday ,I can not think about tommorrow cause its not here and it never turns out like I plan any way,so now I only concentrate on today!! makes me much happier.
One day at a time- that's the way I have to keep myself focused!
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:46 PM   #734
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One cup of spinach cooks down to like.. 1 bite for me lol.. sometimes I think what's the point?
yea, I much rather eat raw than cooked...way more volume- plus I don't like spinach cooked
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:09 PM   #735
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These numbers may just depend on where you are coming from, and what your particular "setpoint" is for protein, and if you are coming to this plan after having stalled on lowcarb. Certainly the 1.5 level for me means burning excess protein as glucose and raising my morning blood sugar numbers.
At 1.5 level, my morning bs is up too. And gained another lb this morning -- I do think the 1.5, at least so far, is causing me to gain.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:29 PM   #736
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I would also like to know this stuff. I know that when I was doing nonfat and keeping calories to 900-1000 a day, I was thin and felt great (or so I thought), but it ruined my endocrine system for post-menopausal issues.

When I did the low end of the scale as posted on the original NK thread, is when I did lose 2#, but it was all LBM, and not fat. I don't want to go back to that all for the almighty number on a scale.

I'm going to continue to follow the 1.5 range for protein and try harder to achieve it daily...I haven't been. And, like Buffy realized (and PC/Becky too I believe) that upping our total calories was hard, but gave good results.

I'm going to eat more!!!!

OH...and I found the Kerrygold butter finally! Oh my goodness is it wonderful. Who needs BPC when you can eat it straight from the package!
Even though I gained another lb per the scales this am, I'm staying with the 1.5 (but will still b***h) Already hit my protein today so doing OK, but certainly not 2307 calories. Need to get some more fat in to get my micros right so that will add some. Thanks for your earlier comment about us being alike, body wise. Nice to have a buddy!
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:42 PM   #737
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Who doesn't love Johnny Cash that is over 30?
Johnny Cash
My DD17 loves Johnny cash too, But I did raise my girls to love the finer things in life.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:54 PM   #738
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Johnny Cash I watch the move walk the line all the time I love it so I bought the movie.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #739
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Oh I never did see that movie Becky. It is really good huh?
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:12 PM   #740
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If you've been feeling down and like your best friend is leaving you there is good reason for it.

Voyager1 is/has left the solar system! Man that little guy has been chugging along for decades! I remember the excitement when Jupiter's photos were being beamed back to us.

It is supposed to be capable of communicating with us all the way to 2020. That means that we will get first hand information/data about interstellar space for the first time!!! Wow!

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Old 12-09-2012, 05:33 PM   #741
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Kale is relatively low in carbs. A large serving--67 gm (1 cup chopped)-- has 5.86 g carbs & 2.87 g protein, according to the USDA database.

Spinach has 2.44 g carbs for the same 67 gms and 1.92 g. protein. But it cooks down to a lot smaller.

Romaine has 2.20 g carbs and 0.82 g protein in 67 gm.
Oooh...Tiva you are a doll to do that for "me"!!!!

Kale is on my shopping list....I want to try to make the kale chips! I love my oil and salt!
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:34 PM   #742
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Sophie I've been very busy with store so I'm only eating around 50-55 grams protein im sopose to get 91 I've not eat any veggies cup back just a little on hwc and went from Steiva packets to the liquid.also I've not been to stressed out..I decided I can not change yesterday ,I can not think about tommorrow cause its not here and it never turns out like I plan any way,so now I only concentrate on today!! makes me much happier.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:37 PM   #743
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I don't know you well Red so I'm going to assume you haven't lost your mind. Thanks for the advise. Regardless of ketosis readings I'm sticking with NK. I'll give it as much time as it needs. I do feel much better than before.



Thanks Shelley! Yeah, I freeze my husband out every night with a bedside fan, and sleep in sleeveless shirts. I'm beginning to think the hot flashes will follow me to the grave......
Just keep in mind that the ketostix can give you incorrect readings for your brain. Once you are getting into ketosis or doing things right, the readings could show "neutral" or "no reading" and you will think OH NO!!!!! That's what happened to me. Then I got a ketone meter and was IN ketosis on the first test (back in September). The stix and strips test different "substances" (can't think of the right word)

And the hot flashes...I started having them at 30, and then was put on bio-identical hormones to get rid of them. That worked for about 20 years. Went off them and they came back....back on BHRT, and then off them again nearly 2 years ago. Then started NK eating and ooo la la.....I'm toasty warm most of the time, but the "heat" is different from hot flashes. So, you might be having hot flashes, or you might be reacting to the fat? Hard to tell.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:38 PM   #744
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One cup of spinach cooks down to like.. 1 bite for me lol.. sometimes I think what's the point?
Add some olive oil, garlic, bacon and HWC and then it's delish!
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:39 PM   #745
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Who doesn't love Johnny Cash that is over 30?
I'm more than double thirty, so can I love him doubly?! We got to see him, June Carter and the Carter family at an outdoor concert here years ago. It was fantastic! Aren't you jealous!!! Not a still body/foot in the place!
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:43 PM   #746
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Red got see that movie,it's great the guy who plays j cash does a great job!
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:44 PM   #747
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I told myself it was b/c of my knees...but who knows- there are choreographers more handicapped than me.
Ha ha...there's me (handicapped with injuries)!! I'm so glad that you had good teachers and loved it. Do you have little girls? You could do classes with them in the living room! Wouldn't that be fun.

I will let you know about the kale chips (were they home made that you didn't like?) My trainer said that she hated kale until doing her own. I told her I did NOT like kale either, so I'll try them this week.

I just love that there's another "former dancer" here!
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:48 PM   #748
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Even though I gained another lb per the scales this am, I'm staying with the 1.5 (but will still b***h) Already hit my protein today so doing OK, but certainly not 2307 calories. Need to get some more fat in to get my micros right so that will add some. Thanks for your earlier comment about us being alike, body wise. Nice to have a buddy!
Oh yes....please be my partner in "b***hing" here.

I am determined to have this work for me. Today is the first day in 3.5 months that I am not hungry...at all. Just don't want to eat. That's a first. Maybe something clicked??? Must have been the kerrygold butter!!! Don't give up. There are more like us that lurk and come out on occasion. We can do this! And, this is the healthiest way to eat...and I'm going for good health at this point! And....another thing to remember. Fat makes wrinkles on your face disappear!!!! (but it's true!)
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:49 PM   #749
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Red got see that movie,it's great the guy who plays j cash does a great job!
Is that the one with Joaquin Phoenix?
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:52 PM   #750
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Does anyone else find this to be a hauntingly beautiful tune? It is called Ghost Lullaby. I love it! Can't get enough heh
Major Red....have you ever listened to the Canadian Group "Secret Garden". Oh my..I think you would like them a lot. Their first (or one of hte first) CD's was their "name" as the title. I used to listen to them all the time. Same "feeling" of peace and beauty in the sounds.
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