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Old 12-13-2012, 12:00 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Hope you don't mind if I horn in a bit here. I agree with the food recommendations but I would also wonder about the daily workouts? How intense and how long and are they aerobic or strength training. Either way, it may be to your benefit to reduce these training periods.
I don't mind at all - the more the merrier!

I have a long history of doing intense workouts 6 days a week, alternating between HIIT/metabolic conditioning and strength training. Just before starting NK, I acknowledged that I probably needed to back off of those a bit (?!), because at some point I had started doing met con style workouts, 45 minutes to over 1 hour in length, as often as 4-5 days a week, many times on consecutive days. And that was in addition to strength training workouts. Bad news, I know!

Right now, I'm finishing up my third week of a new heavy strength training program (Body Beast DVDs) which includes one high intensity cardio workout per week. The leg workout feels as intense as cardio to me too, so I consider that a bit of both strength and cardio. I love the fact that these workouts range from 30-40 minutes each. The program is set up so that you only work one or two muscle groups per day and hit everything once a week. They are very intense, but I feel great doing them. Depending on which phase of the workout you're in, it could be done 5 or 6 days a week. The phase I'm in now has to be 6 days a week because of the way the body parts are split. Once I'm through with Body Beast, I'll probably try to stick to things that I can do just 5 days a week for the long term.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:35 PM   #182
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Wow, you are a workout queen, I will say that!!! Since I am so lazy, I don't have any input on what that does as far as getting or keeping you from ketosis, but I have to say, I really admire you!
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:23 PM   #183
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Wow, you are a workout queen, I will say that!!! Since I am so lazy, I don't have any input on what that does as far as getting or keeping you from ketosis, but I have to say, I really admire you!
Aw, thanks. Some people say "obsessed," but I like "queen" much better.

I went from being a couch potato as a kid/teen to a fitness fanatic shortly after I finished college.... a little over ten years ago. Seems terribly unfair to still have a weight problem after all this time, but I've made serious diet mistakes in the past that I guess I'm paying for today.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:46 PM   #184
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I use the Pacific Foods Organic Free Range Chicken Broth in a box and I add more salt (1/4-1/2 tsp). They all have a few carbs and 1 per cup is pretty good. I haven't found any good bouillon cubes so far.
Ditto!!!!!
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:56 PM   #185
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Hope you don't mind if I horn in a bit here. I agree with the food recommendations but I would also wonder about the daily workouts? How intense and how long and are they aerobic or strength training. Either way, it may be to your benefit to reduce these training periods.
When I started this way of eating, I was told that I was NOT to do any more weights, HIIT, etc. until I was heavily into ketosis...that is causes issues if you are "trying to get into ketosis". So, I gave it up and just walked. I felt much better and am starting to add in weight lifting, but NOT to failure so not the way you are, and only 3 days a week (which they said was "max" -- trainers)

So, like I used to be doing (5-6 days a week of weights to failure and HIIT), you are probably causing your body to rebel and cause cortisol levels to go wacky. It was hard for me to give up the workouts after 50+ years of exercising to the hilt, but now I feel better. I'm more "even keeled" and my endocrine system is humming long well. So, like Cathy wrote above, it might be to your benefit to cut back or just "walk" for a couple weeks, or do the elliptical trainer or something that is NOT cardio.

And, the headache thing. I never get headaches, but I was getting this little head buzzy thing and found it was .... guess what??.... NOT ENOUGH SALT! As soon as I pour some (real salt/not table salt) in my hand, lick it and follow with water, I feel fine within a very short time...a minute or two at most!
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:04 PM   #186
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Yes Shelley, that was were I was going with that. I have read that adrenal fatigue from intense aerobic exercise can be quite counter productive.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:24 PM   #187
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My own experience has been that by backing down on training I got better results. It took a while for me to recover from the fatigue brought on by overtraining and I was not able to lose weight when I was training that hard.

OTOH, I was stronger then and probably had a higher level of muscle mass (but also a higher BF%). Ultimately it was unsustainable for me and wasn't getting me to my goals. When you're training that hard it's crucial to dial in the right amount of macronutrients to fuel your workouts while allowing weight loss.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:29 PM   #188
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Thanks Buffy and Kristn, although hearing that I need to eliminate the Greek yogurt and chocolate makes me

Well, I've made it to 1:30 in the afternoon with no greek yogurt or dark chocolate so far. I think this is the first time I've felt deprived on NK!! I'll probably feel better once I drink some decaf coffee to give my taste buds something to do.
Great job Lindsay!! I hope that the coffee helped. Do you ever do sugar-free syrups? My DH just bought some salted caramel Torani syrup that is to die for in coffee! It might be helpful to figure out a treat as a replacement for the stuff that you're giving up.

Last edited by mom2zeke; 12-13-2012 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:59 AM   #189
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Good morning everyone! How are the ketone readings going?

This morning I registered a 1.4 on the ketone meter. Weight up .4 to 146.

How is everyone else doing?
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:29 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by shelley View Post
When I started this way of eating, I was told that I was NOT to do any more weights, HIIT, etc. until I was heavily into ketosis...that is causes issues if you are "trying to get into ketosis". So, I gave it up and just walked. I felt much better and am starting to add in weight lifting, but NOT to failure so not the way you are, and only 3 days a week (which they said was "max" -- trainers)

So, like I used to be doing (5-6 days a week of weights to failure and HIIT), you are probably causing your body to rebel and cause cortisol levels to go wacky. It was hard for me to give up the workouts after 50+ years of exercising to the hilt, but now I feel better. I'm more "even keeled" and my endocrine system is humming long well. So, like Cathy wrote above, it might be to your benefit to cut back or just "walk" for a couple weeks, or do the elliptical trainer or something that is NOT cardio.

And, the headache thing. I never get headaches, but I was getting this little head buzzy thing and found it was .... guess what??.... NOT ENOUGH SALT! As soon as I pour some (real salt/not table salt) in my hand, lick it and follow with water, I feel fine within a very short time...a minute or two at most!
I think I would like to try this idea...it's just hard for me to quit a program that I basically just started! It feels like wimping out although I know it may be the best for me right now. Maybe I'll finish out this week as scheduled then try something new next week!

Regarding salt/sodium: yesterday, I went ahead and drank the canned broth I already had in the kitchen, even though it had some questionable ingredients. I can't believe how yummy it was - it tasted better to me than my afternoon coffee! I did not have a headache after the broth, but that may have been coincidence because I didn't have one before it either. I am planning on trying to do this daily now, but that means I gotta go somewhere today and pick up a bunch of broth!

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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Yes Shelley, that was were I was going with that. I have read that adrenal fatigue from intense aerobic exercise can be quite counter productive.
I don't know much about adrenal fatigue, but wouldn't I feel "bad" if that was a problem for me? Except for those 3 days or so when I had a headache, I've felt great for the past several weeks - especially when I'm in the middle of a workout.

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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Great job Lindsay!! I hope that the coffee helped. Do you ever do sugar-free syrups? My DH just bought some salted caramel Torani syrup that is to die for in coffee! It might be helpful to figure out a treat as a replacement for the stuff that you're giving up.
That is a great idea! I wonder if it could replace the Sweet & Low. Sometimes I wonder if that could be a source of stalling for me, although I have no concrete reason to think so. I just use several packets a day in all my cups of coffee (usually 3 caffeinated in the morning, and 2 decaf in the afternoon). I've considered trying another non-caloric sweetener, but Sweet & Low is just so cheap and easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Good morning everyone! How are the ketone readings going?

This morning I registered a 1.4 on the ketone meter. Weight up .4 to 146.

How is everyone else doing?
Confession time: I broke down and had a little Greek yogurt after dinner last night. After a dinner of 6oz (?) chicken, 2 tbsp sour cream, and 1 cup green beans, I looked at my numbers for the day, and my calories were only 1,145, and I had some room for more protein (63g). My fat was only 89g and carbs were 16g (12g net). I could not think of anything else to eat that we had in the kitchen that would have the right macros (need some macadamia nuts!!!), so I rationalized that a little bit of Greek yogurt would be acceptable. At least that got my calories slightly above 1,200, fat up to 100g, protein 67g and total carbs 21g.

At least I didn't eat the chocolate, right??

This morning: Weight down a pound (ish) and ketones up slightly to .4. Today, gonna try to do better on finding ways to get fat in and keep protein and carbs about where they were yesterday...maybe the key to making it work is to choose a small amount of Greek yogurt OR dark chocolate just once a day, rather than both of them every day.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:38 AM   #191
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(That has to be a world record for the use of slashes in a single paragraph.)



Lindsay I would never have had the idea myself, but have loved it since Kristn thought of it - a bowl of broth with an ounce or two of cream cheese. It is so comforting and such a nice thing to do for yourself if that kind of thing appeals to you.

I think you are a busy mom who deserves a wonderful Christmas present of digital scales! I think I paid about $17 for mine.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:50 AM   #192
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If you like pork rinds, they pack calories, fat and protein Lindsay.

My ketones were 0.6 this morning and I have to admit, I taste tested a little too much toffee as I was packaging it yesterday. So, I was glad to see that number at least.

Lindsay, I think you have been giving great advice, give it a try backing off some of the foods you were eating and the heavy workouts and see what happens.

Hello to everyone!
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:58 AM   #193
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good morning everyone- ketones at 1.4 this a.m.

Not much else to report at all- except we are heading into the weekend, and that is always difficult for me. hope everyone has a good day!
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:43 AM   #194
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I
I don't know much about adrenal fatigue, but wouldn't I feel "bad" if that was a problem for me? Except for those 3 days or so when I had a headache, I've felt great for the past several weeks - especially when I'm in the middle of a workout.
I always felt great during and after a workout, but would get exhausted as the day wore on. I needed to work out every day to get that "high" feeling back from the workout, but the rest of my life was suffering.

Quote:
That is a great idea! I wonder if it could replace the Sweet & Low. Sometimes I wonder if that could be a source of stalling for me, although I have no concrete reason to think so. I just use several packets a day in all my cups of coffee (usually 3 caffeinated in the morning, and 2 decaf in the afternoon). I've considered trying another non-caloric sweetener, but Sweet & Low is just so cheap and easy.
Are you counting the carbs from those packets? I think the advice is to count 1 carb each. The liquid sweetener doesn't have carbs because there are no fillers. We can get the DaVinci and Torani syrups pretty cheap here at Cash & Carry (aka Smart & Final in other states)--check around to see if there's a store that supplies coffee carts in your area (it may be that because we're in Seattle it is more available to us). I also order the EZ Sweetz from Netrition and apparently there is a new liquid splenda available in supermarkets or Walmart. I haven't seen it here.



Quote:
Confession time: I broke down and had a little Greek yogurt after dinner last night. After a dinner of 6oz (?) chicken, 2 tbsp sour cream, and 1 cup green beans, I looked at my numbers for the day, and my calories were only 1,145, and I had some room for more protein (63g). My fat was only 89g and carbs were 16g (12g net). I could not think of anything else to eat that we had in the kitchen that would have the right macros (need some macadamia nuts!!!), so I rationalized that a little bit of Greek yogurt would be acceptable. At least that got my calories slightly above 1,200, fat up to 100g, protein 67g and total carbs 21g.

At least I didn't eat the chocolate, right??

This morning: Weight down a pound (ish) and ketones up slightly to .4. Today, gonna try to do better on finding ways to get fat in and keep protein and carbs about where they were yesterday...maybe the key to making it work is to choose a small amount of Greek yogurt OR dark chocolate just once a day, rather than both of them every day.
If you can, cut both out for a week or two and then add them back in one at a time to see how (if) they are effecting ketones and weight.

Congrats on seeing your weight go down and ketones up! It's great that they're both heading in the right direction.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:48 AM   #195
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Everything Kristn said!!! I was going to answer about each of those items in exactly the same way except commenting on the exercise, I am not able to be in on that conversation as mine is not happening right now and if it does, it is just walking.
Ditch the packets, go for the eZ sweetz
If you want a treat, try the diet soda floats, they are sweet, refreshing and like a dessert. Take any diet soda, my favorite is AW diet root beer, pour over a little ice, add 1 or more T of heavy whipping cream, fill up with soda. Tastes like an ice cream float and lasts a while to enjoy. That is what I have often after dinner at night. Orange is good, your favorite diet cola is good.
Like Kristn said, try for a couple of weeks, then you could add 1 square of dark choc back in, or a little greek yogurt but you might see that those things are holding you back.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:07 PM   #196
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I had a rough week, food-wise. I went to the dentist today, but for the past week I've pretty much been on a liquid diet, and its been hard to get enough protein. I was 2.3 on the NovaMax this morning. I just got a free Precision meter, so I'm switching over as soon as I get the strips. Everything should be getting back to normal in the next week.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:41 AM   #197
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hi pals. one thing JM did that i havent tried was intermittent fasting. Whats are some good rules to follow to do this, i want to try
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:02 AM   #198
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Hi Myles! I have done intermittent fasting over long periods of time and there are plenty of great advantages to it. I would suggest googling 'fast five intermittent fasting' for tons of info.

What I liked about it was the absolute control over hunger, the simplicity and just overall feeling of well being. I stopped I.f.ing when I learned that in some females, it is counterproductive. I thought that must be true for me as I lost no weight at all. Men seem to do much better.

I would be very interested to hear how you do. Oh and most people need to work up to it (i.e. start with a big window and then move down).
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:02 AM   #199
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I just wanted to pop in to say that I've read everyone's posts with advice and ideas about tweaks on how to get my ketones up, but I've been so busy with work for the past couple of days (and will be, until probably Tuesday), I haven't had the chance to properly reply. I promise I will, but it might be a few more days!!

Quick summary though: no, I haven't been counting Sweet and Low at all (!!!!!), I'm going to look into those SF syrups, and today I've started training myself to like one packet of Sweet and Low per cup instead of two.

Also, I was high on protein yesterday (argh restaurants!!) but my ketones were up to 0.8 this morning. I had the usual overload of Sweet and Low in all my coffees, but no Greek yogurt or chocolate. Interesting!!
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:34 AM   #200
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I just wanted to pop in to say that I've read everyone's posts with advice and ideas about tweaks on how to get my ketones up, but I've been so busy with work for the past couple of days (and will be, until probably Tuesday), I haven't had the chance to properly reply. I promise I will, but it might be a few more days!!

Quick summary though: no, I haven't been counting Sweet and Low at all (!!!!!), I'm going to look into those SF syrups, and today I've started training myself to like one packet of Sweet and Low per cup instead of two.

Also, I was high on protein yesterday (argh restaurants!!) but my ketones were up to 0.8 this morning. I had the usual overload of Sweet and Low in all my coffees, but no Greek yogurt or chocolate. Interesting!!
Good progress. I can't say enough good things about the liquid splenda, you can order right here at netrition. No carbs at all to worry about and it just takes a drop or two so a bottle lasts a long time. I haven't seen any in the stores but I think Kristn mentioned that she had heard it was available. Good ketone reading! Mine seldom go above 1.0 and I am happy with my rate of loss, usually pretty slow but downward and this month it has picked up.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:35 AM   #201
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Sorry Myles, have no advice on the fasting, I have never done it.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:40 AM   #202
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Happy to report today on a couple of things.
1. I have as of today, joined the 20 lb club. Weight was at a new low this AM of 188.8, down 20 lbs since I started NK on Sept. 3rd. I am so excited as getting into the 180's was my goal for Jan. 1.

2. I went to a movie yesterday, hadn't been to one for a long time and used to go half for the movie popcorn. I hadn't eaten any carbs to speak of so I gave in and got the kids bag of popcorn. Probably had 35-40 carbs for the amount I ate. Came home, no more carbs for the day and it did not knock me out of ketosis. Raised my BS just a little but it was only 99. Interesting in the fact that maybe I can eat a few more carbs than I have been and still stay in ketosis, and continue to lose. Of course would want to add them in things like more veggies, berries, etc. I know some of the reading I have done on NK suggests carbs at 50 or below per day but I have just been trying to keep mine at 20 or below. More experimenting to follow....
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:54 AM   #203
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Thanks for the update Lindsay! Congrats on the ketones moving up!

Buffy--congratulations on your loss!! You're doing an amazing job sticking with this even when the scale is slow. And now you're 20 pounds down!! It's great that you may be able to stay in ketosis and still lose with more carbs. This is why I love the meter--you can tweak and get pretty quick feedback on whether or not it kicks you out of ketosis. Phinney and Volek say below 50 but some people can go as high as 100 carbs/day (and some people need to keep it below 20). I seem to get kicked out pretty easily, but how awesome would it be if you could eat more carbs and stay in ketosis!!

Myles--it seems like from what Jimmy has posted his IFing has naturally occurred from his loss of appetite from eating such high-fat meals and getting into ketosis. I have tried to IF but it's not for me (raises my cortisol). However, I do try not to snack and to leave plenty of time between meals. How are you doing in following the NK guidelines? Have you been testing?
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:59 AM   #204
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This morning my ketones were .7. I've been above .5 for a week at this point. The scale is inching up but I'm pretty sure it's due to hormonal variation. I'm sticking to what I'm doing and am happy to now try and stay within 2 lbs of 145 while keeping ketones over .5, but hopefully closer to 1.0 or even higher.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:00 AM   #205
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I totally agree about the meter Kristn. It is times like yesterday that it is so important to me. I would have totally thought it would kick me out of ketosis, but, it was good to know it didn't, and it is such a learning experience that this just adds a tool that helps us so much. We just need to find a source of strips that weren't so darn expensive. And, without the meter, I would have guessed that on most days, since I usually keep my carbs so low, that my ketone reading would be high, but nope, it is often below 0.1 and I don't know if I have ever testing over 2. Of course I always test first thing in AM too. And, I keep seeing that downward trend in my weight that I am looking for.
Another thing, right now I am so busy that I am not logging my food, another reason the meter is important to me since I don't know exactly how much protein or carbs I am eating, but as long as I am in K, I know I am doing it right.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:15 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
I totally agree about the meter Kristn. It is times like yesterday that it is so important to me. I would have totally thought it would kick me out of ketosis, but, it was good to know it didn't, and it is such a learning experience that this just adds a tool that helps us so much. We just need to find a source of strips that weren't so darn expensive. And, without the meter, I would have guessed that on most days, since I usually keep my carbs so low, that my ketone reading would be high, but nope, it is often below 0.1 and I don't know if I have ever testing over 2. Of course I always test first thing in AM too. And, I keep seeing that downward trend in my weight that I am looking for.
Another thing, right now I am so busy that I am not logging my food, another reason the meter is important to me since I don't know exactly how much protein or carbs I am eating, but as long as I am in K, I know I am doing it right.
You ARE doing it right!

I was not eating LC before this way of eating - just lower calories and moderately reduced carbs so I wonder what Kristn said - some of us must be able to handle higher carbs. I'm not dipping my toe in that water yet, but someday... (my birthday!)

SO happy for you Buffy!!
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:20 AM   #207
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Stats: Type 2 Diabetic as of 6/1/08
WOE: LC/MP/HF
Start Date: Restart 9/3/2012
That seems to be the one difference that jumps out to me in atkins style or regular LC, versus NK and believe me, I don't read or study on it like some people are able to. Just not my personality to want to study things very hard, I like to skim through the info and pick out the nuggets I need to help me on my journey. Anyway, the difference being LC enough to stay in ketosis, or, keeping protein lower (modified protein) and carbs in a looser range and stay in ketosis. Both can allow for weight loss it seems. Ketosis seems to be the common thing here. Not only am I not good at study but I am not good at explaining things either
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:20 AM   #208
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
Start Date: August 6, 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryKate View Post
I had a rough week, food-wise. I went to the dentist today, but for the past week I've pretty much been on a liquid diet, and its been hard to get enough protein. I was 2.3 on the NovaMax this morning. I just got a free Precision meter, so I'm switching over as soon as I get the strips. Everything should be getting back to normal in the next week.
MerryKate. I'm so sorry about your dental problems and I'm glad that things are going to be back to normal.

I have the free Precision meter that I never opened. I'm so used to the Nova now that I haven't been very motivated to give the Precision a try. I think that when I run out of glucose strips for the Nova that I'll give the Precision a try for that with it's free glucose strips to get the hang of it. You'll have to give us your evaluation when you start using the Precision vs. the Nova.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:21 AM   #209
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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Stats: Type 2 Diabetic as of 6/1/08
WOE: LC/MP/HF
Start Date: Restart 9/3/2012
Judy, I can't remember how tall you are but from your picture at that game, you look absolutely perfect at the weight you are.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:21 AM   #210
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lewisville, TX USA
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Stats: Type 2 Diabetic as of 6/1/08
WOE: LC/MP/HF
Start Date: Restart 9/3/2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
MerryKate. I'm so sorry about your dental problems and I'm glad that things are going to be back to normal.

I have the free Precision meter that I never opened. I'm so used to the Nova now that I haven't been very motivated to give the Precision a try. I think that when I run out of glucose strips for the Nova that I'll give the Precision a try for that with it's free glucose strips to get the hang of it. You'll have to give us your evaluation when you start using the Precision vs. the Nova.
Yes, would be interesting to see how they compare using the same drop of blood!
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