Testing Blood Ketones? Post your results here!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

First of all THANK YOU GUYS SOOOO MUCH for your nudging me to track my intake. That was the first thing I did after dinner and holy cow was I surprised. Turns I've been totally over eating!

LOL I think a lot of us had that revelation when we first started tracking.

But in short, turns out I was eating more than 3000 calories per day!

The good news was that I was keeping a good ratio of fats... making up about 80% of my total caloric intake.. and my carbs were about 30 gm total.

To lose you may need to go below 80% fat. As you know from reading the book, Phinney and Volek do not recommend a particular fat % for weight loss, but they do recommend reducing fat to lose which would necessarily reduce your fat percentage. When I was losing my fat fell into the 65-70% range.

My evening Ketone measurement was 1.2 .. so that was the other bit of good news.

I guess we solved the problem of why my weightloss has stalled!

Glad to hear that your ketones are up!

The only other issue I have is that I thought that when I'm in nutritional ketosis, and I'm eating the proper amount of fat.. my appetite is supposed to go down right?

Volek and Phinney recommend eating to satiety... and when I ate to satiety I ate 3000+ calories! What gives?

Anyone else with this experience?

I am one who did not have my appetite reduced substantially at first. It was pretty painful to reduce my protein (after 11 years of LC) and total calories. I would say that it took a few weeks and then I started feeling satisfied, but not full. I would say that these days I am satisfied with my meals, but could almost always eat more if I allowed myself to. To be completely honest, when I finish a meal I usually have a moment of thinking "is that all?", I mentally check to see if I am really hungry (usually no), and then I tell myself that I am finished for that meal. I have had a couple of times that I was so full that I couldn't eat any more. But that is a rare thing.

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

I think your plan of attack looks good. Dropping one hot chocolate is a great place to start. If you go to page 206 in their Living book, it will explain the weight loss intake phase of a well formulated weight loss diet.

They have reduced fat to 56% of calorie intake, which is for weight loss, vs 80% for weight maintenance.

Appetite suppression seems to be one of those YMMV things. It seems to get better when you are in the range on a more consistent basis.

Don't get hung up on trying to get your fat up super high. Find the level that allows ketosis and weight loss for you!

Originally Posted by UnstrungHarp

Hello!

I had the same experience when I started tracking. In my mind, I had "already started" NK because I had restarted my efforts to eat low carb. But now I say that I didn't really start NK until November 3 because my whole first week included several days that were around 2500 calories, mostly from having well over 100 grams of protein and sometimes as much as 70 grams of carbs.

But now it's much easier for me to stay under my maximum protein and carbs every day without any hunger problems at all. I still have an occasional day where I slip up and have 90+ grams of protein (restaurants!), but I can also have days when I hit 55 grams, and I am done!!

It does get easier once you get used to it!

Regarding my ketone reading update, I'm missing data from Dec 19, 20 and 21 due to waiting on my next box of strips to be delivered, but here is the trend since the 22nd:

Dec 22 (strips arrived mid-morning, 2 hrs after breakfast): 1.8
Dec 23: 1.9 (a.m.); 2.1 (p.m.)
Dec 24: 1.2 (a.m.); 0.9 (p.m.) - weird, lower p.m. reading!
Dec 25: 1.4 (a.m.); no p.m. reading
Dec 26: 0.9 (a.m.); 1.2 (p.m.)
Dec 27: 1.3 (a.m.); no p.m. reading yet!

Not really a "trend" I guess, but I do believe I had too much protein on the 25th (Christmas get-togethers!) which led to the lower morning reading on the 26th.

As for weight, I've honestly been about the same for over a month. I get excited every time I see a pound lower than the day before, but a day or two later it comes back. Today I'm having one of those "good days" where I'm 4 pounds lower than my starting weight from Nov 1, but it will soon be 2 months from that date. I guess an average rate of losing 2 pounds per month is certainly better than gaining (!!), but it's oh so slow.

for good ketone readings!! Have you thought about making any changes to get weight-loss going?

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone! As I posted yesterday things are very busy at work. I am able to post in the morning and evening, but during the day it's not so easy. I do read though, and try to remember what I want to respond to.

This morning ketones were .7. Maintenance is going smashingly for now.

How is everyone else this morning?

[sasonnier]

Good morning all! Ketones are at 0.6 today (and yesterday). I've been lazy on the logging and tracking of my food. I start out tracking and all, then give it up by mid day- not good for me. I do much better when I track.

I'm incredibly tired today- didn't sleep well last night, and I have a pretty full day. I stepped on the scale and skitted off real fast when I didn't see a loss

I have my Dr's appt w/the D.O tomorrow, so I am looking forward to that and working on optimizing my thyroids.

Hope everyone is doing well!

[mom2zeke]

Sophie--I hope that your appointment goes well! I know that it's a PITA to track, but if you're trying to lose it's essential!

[mom2zeke]

Hi All,
Does anyone here read Regina Wilshire's Weight of the Evidence blog? She was really active when I was first low-carbing and she's had some interesting posts lately about JM and NK.

I thought her post entitled, Does "Nutritional Ketosis" Require 85% Fat? was spot on and it lead to a link to a post entitled Protein is Essential But Too Much is too Much which is also eye-opening.

Speaking of which, I will no longer be referencing JM or linking to any of his material. His latest blog posts with LC links has a link to David Duke's blog and apparently he was a guest on DD's radio show. It is beyond my comprehension that anyone could promote such evil and I cannot keep silent on this nor can I reference or promote his website any more.

[Buffy45]

Morning all.
My ketone reading this morning was LO. Bahhhh. I am still paying for the over indulgence in carbs on Christmas day and let me say, I won't be doing that again for a long time. It seemed worth it right then, but now I keep thinking I could have made some LC treat and stuck to my plan. My weight is also up 2 lbs.

But, I did get right back on plan so hope by tomorrow I might register back in ketosis. The good thing is that even though it knocked me out, my appetite has not come back so it is easy getting right back on the horse.

In regards to appetite. I was one who never could believe that anything would dull my appetite and even ketosis didn't for a while, but then gradually it did to the point now that I sometimes have to have a protein shake to get my protein and calories up. I make my shakes with almond milk, HWC to boost the calories over the water method.

I too have been too busy/lazy to track. Hopefully soon I can get back to that. Since I was losing I didn't worry too much but it is always better to track.

[JMCM1]

Buffy I'm up 2 pounds, also, did not want to waste a strip.

Started tracking yesterday and was surprised how few calories I ate - all out of choice and lack of appetite.

I will not let that go on too long because I'm more interested in health than in starving myself temporarily. There's a certain amount of comfort in going back to the foods that were good for me before this Christmastime and I know we like them.
Time for me to pay attention to what we are eating, how much we are eating, and to plan to eat properly!

Kristn that is shocking news. Thank you for letting us know.
Glad to know about the other blog, though!

[mom2zeke]

Buffy and Judy--it sounds like you guys are back on track! I expect I'll be singing the same tune next week after my birthday meal. My plan is to test every day after the meal to see how long it takes me to get back into ketosis and back to a weight number I want to see. I'm looking at it as more data for future indulgences.

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Buffy and Judy--it sounds like you guys are back on track! I expect I'll be singing the same tune next week after my birthday meal. My plan is to test every day after the meal to see how long it takes me to get back into ketosis and back to a weight number I want to see. I'm looking at it as more data for future indulgences.

HA HA! Love that.
And of course I'll track your numbers very closely and even though we are different ages, different body types and have different activity levels, I will try to match your food choices and expect the same outcome!

Signed,

[Buffy45]

Yes Kristn, I will be anxious to hear how your "birthday experiment" goes as well and the time it takes to recover. I had planned on doing my cheating all within 1 hour, like CAD, and that might have worked but spreading the carbs out over about 8 hours certainly didn't work for me. Bam!

I do want to get back to tracking for a while b/c I kind of worry about either over eating on protein or undereating on calories. Maybe after this weekend when my last company will have been here and gone.

Kristn, I don't read many other blogs so now of course I have to run look at the ones you referenced.

[sasonnier]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Hi All,
Does anyone here read Regina Wilshire's Weight of the Evidence blog? She was really active when I was first low-carbing and she's had some interesting posts lately about JM and NK.

I thought her post entitled, Does "Nutritional Ketosis" Require 85% Fat? was spot on and it lead to a link to a post entitled Protein is Essential But Too Much is too Much which is also eye-opening.

Speaking of which, I will no longer be referencing JM or linking to any of his material. His latest blog posts with LC links has a link to David Duke's blog and apparently he was a guest on DD's radio show. It is beyond my comprehension that anyone could promote such evil and I cannot keep silent on this nor can I reference or promote his website any more.

Wow- thanks for sharing this- I'm speechless and shocked.

[shelley]

Kristn, thanks for the link for the blog you mentioned...I'll have to check it out. Buffy and Judy....you two did great...."only" gaining 2#....I gained nearly 5, but after one day of being back on track (yesterday), 1.5 of it is already gone...good ol' water weight from the liver and the bloat of all I ate that was NOT on plan.

Re: amount of fat....I have cut back my fat intake from 80-82% to 65-70% and it feels much better on me. I haven't tested ketones yet...will wait a few more days for the grains and sugars to depart my body. OH...and I have once again lowered my calories by about 400-500/day. Feels better there too!

Sophie...can't wait to hear what the DO has to say...and I'm so hopeful that he/she is a good one and will be helpful with your test results!!!! Yipppeee!!!!!

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Good morning all! Ketones are at 0.6 today (and yesterday). I've been lazy on the logging and tracking of my food. I start out tracking and all, then give it up by mid day- not good for me. I do much better when I track.

You know I had the same problem, but I found an iphone app that kind of made things easier.. I just took a picture of everything I put in my mouth! and at the end of the day it made it easier to log.

the app is called "thryve"

When I write my blog, I like to lead off with a picture of the thryve screen shot to remind me of everything I've eaten!

this has worked for me so far... at least for two days.

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Buffy and Judy--it sounds like you guys are back on track! I expect I'll be singing the same tune next week after my birthday meal. My plan is to test every day after the meal to see how long it takes me to get back into ketosis and back to a weight number I want to see. I'm looking at it as more data for future indulgences.

After I figure out how to stabilize my ketones (at least consistently above 1), I'd like to do an experiment like once or twice a week, where I wake up, test my fasting ketones, and then eat something, and do serial ketone and blood sugar measurements.. i think for up to 4 hours at least, to see what effect it has on my ketones and how long it takes for them to come back.

Sort of like what this guy did

It'd be interesting to see the effect of various foods.

My only concern would be how things would look if i ate something like a red velvet cake.. and if that would kick me out of ketosis for a day or more!

I guess my idea needs a little more fleshing out... may need to be a multiday trial!

Also my AM ketones were 0.6. slowly chugging along

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

After I figure out how to stabilize my ketones (at least consistently above 1), I'd like to do an experiment like once or twice a week, where I wake up, test my fasting ketones, and then eat something, and do serial ketone and blood sugar measurements.. i think for up to 4 hours at least, to see what effect it has on my ketones and how long it takes for them to come back.

Sort of like what this guy did

It'd be interesting to see the effect of various foods.

My only concern would be how things would look if i ate something like a red velvet cake.. and if that would kick me out of ketosis for a day or more!

I guess my idea needs a little more fleshing out... may need to be a multiday trial!

Also my AM ketones were 0.6. slowly chugging along

Well, I'll be right here cheering you on!

But (correct me if I'm wrong) the effect of those foods on your young, fit, male body will be different than the effect on my older, not so fit, female body, right? Or no?

[Buffy45]

Me thinks you are right Judy, it all effects each of us differently, we could all eat exactly the same and get different results.

Caveman, I usually am in the range of 0.5 and 1.5 and am happy with my losses. Often it is between 0.5 and 1. So, although I would like to see the higher number, not sure it is always necessary for weight loss.

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Me thinks you are right Judy, it all effects each of us differently, we could all eat exactly the same and get different results.

Caveman, I usually am in the range of 0.5 and 1.5 and am happy with my losses. Often it is between 0.5 and 1. So, although I would like to see the higher number, not sure it is always necessary for weight loss.

Also being in the measurably higher level of ketosis does not guarantee weight loss, either.

[Buffy45]

ketosis = tricky little devil

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Also being in the measurably higher level of ketosis does not guarantee weight loss, either.

I guess this is probably true. I'll have to see if this is the same for me. Maybe I'm being too focused on the numbers and I should just be happy that my body is burning fat at all!

But when you see other folks in the 3-4 range, doesn't it just make it seem like they have a little more wiggle room when they fall off the wagon?

Like the pepsimax guy, his were in the 3-4 range... so when he took pepsimax and it dropped him 2 points, he was still in ketosis. Now if he started in the 1-2 range, and he dropped 2 points, then he'd be back at square one!

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Me thinks you are right Judy, it all effects each of us differently, we could all eat exactly the same and get different results.

Caveman, I usually am in the range of 0.5 and 1.5 and am happy with my losses. Often it is between 0.5 and 1. So, although I would like to see the higher number, not sure it is always necessary for weight loss.

I guess that's why it's so beneficial to do our own testing... everyone's body is a unique laboratory! That's the power of n=1 I guess. Although I'm glad for forums like this where I can learn from other people's experiences... such as the awesome counting calories and food tracking suggestion you guys had

Originally Posted by Buffy45

ketosis = tricky little devil

Amen to this!

[Buffy45]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the satisfaction of seeing the higher numbers in my BK readings, and hadn't thought of your point of wiggle room. But, alas, even eating just pretty much meats, fats and eggs, my seldom go above 1.5, that is testing first thing in the AM when they do tend to be lower than maybe later in the day. If I am in the zone when I test first thing, I don't waste a strip later b/c I know I am in. It is just neat seeing those numbers higher and Kristn and I have agreed, even though we know we don't always have to test, when you know you are eating right, you know you are in ketosis, but we love messing with our meters and testing, it is just, well, uh, fun!

I don't have a clue as to how my being diabetic and on meds for that effects the whole thing as far as numbers, etc. I can only go by my blood glucose readings which are consistently below 100 now that I am doing NK but I haven't reduced my diabetes meds yet. Hope to in the future. I also take 3 blood pressure meds that I am really wanting to reduce. So far, the only reduction in those is to get off the diurectic side of one of them. So far when I go to the Dr., which hasn't been much since I started, my BP is just where they want it but not dipping to where I would expect them to reduce meds. I may make an appointment soon to talk to my regular doctor about experimenting a little in lowering them.

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the satisfaction of seeing the higher numbers in my BK readings, and hadn't thought of your point of wiggle room. But, alas, even eating just pretty much meats, fats and eggs, my seldom go above 1.5, that is testing first thing in the AM when they do tend to be lower than maybe later in the day. If I am in the zone when I test first thing, I don't waste a strip later b/c I know I am in. It is just neat seeing those numbers higher and Kristn and I have agreed, even though we know we don't always have to test, when you know you are eating right, you know you are in ketosis, but we love messing with our meters and testing, it is just, well, uh, fun!

I don't have a clue as to how my being diabetic and on meds for that effects the whole thing as far as numbers, etc. I can only go by my blood glucose readings which are consistently below 100 now that I am doing NK but I haven't reduced my diabetes meds yet. Hope to in the future. I also take 3 blood pressure meds that I am really wanting to reduce. So far, the only reduction in those is to get off the diurectic side of one of them. So far when I go to the Dr., which hasn't been much since I started, my BP is just where they want it but not dipping to where I would expect them to reduce meds. I may make an appointment soon to talk to my regular doctor about experimenting a little in lowering them.

Buffy,

I just noticed your weight loss starting from september in your bottom tag. That is amazing! congratulations!

I'm sure if you keep this up, you'll be able to wean off the meds eventually!

Looking at your numbers is pretty inspiring.

[mom2zeke]

I think that the question becomes why you are trying to get higher ketone numbers. If you're losing (or maintaining) and in NK then do they give you an advantage? bjjcaveman raises an interesting point, does one have more leeway to go off plan if their numbers are higher? Maybe, but if you have to reduce protein and carbs to a very low level to get there you may be sacrificing your everyday "diet" for an occasional indulgence. While that might be an acceptible trade-off for some, I'd rather eat more/better every day. Doing this also reduces my desire for indulgences (I consider what I eat an indulgence most of the time) so having the higher numbers aren't necessarily an advantage.

[mom2zeke]

FYI--I posted (still unpublished) on the JM blog with the DD link this morning. I just received an email from him that he had removed the link and I checked and it was gone. I am still upset by the fact that it was ever there, but I thought I'd give an update since I mentioned it before.

[sasonnier]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

You know I had the same problem, but I found an iphone app that kind of made things easier.. I just took a picture of everything I put in my mouth! and at the end of the day it made it easier to log.

the app is called "thryve"

When I write my blog, I like to lead off with a picture of the thryve screen shot to remind me of everything I've eaten!

this has worked for me so far... at least for two days.

Thanks for sharing- sounds interesting

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

Buffy,

I just noticed your weight loss starting from september in your bottom tag. That is amazing! congratulations!

I'm sure if you keep this up, you'll be able to wean off the meds eventually!

Looking at your numbers is pretty inspiring.

Thanks Caveman. I am pretty happy about it, haven't been this low in weight for years. It was slow going and I have to admit to questioning if it was actually working on the weight loss part during Oct. and Nov., but, I was seeing such an improvement in my BG numbers that I knew this was how I should eat and then bam, December I really got rewarded with weight loss. Very inspiring to keep at it. In fact, kicking myself for indulging in pie on Christms day which kicked me out of the ketosis I have been in for weeks.

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Thanks for sharing- sounds interesting

Hi Sophie, how are you?

I am waiting for the app where we just take a picture of what we eat and it logs all the nutritional info for us Am I lazy of what??

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

FYI--I posted (still unpublished) on the JM blog with the DD link this morning. I just received an email from him that he had removed the link and I checked and it was gone. I am still upset by the fact that it was ever there, but I thought I'd give an update since I mentioned it before.

Good for you Kristn, I applaud you!

[clackley]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

FYI--I posted (still unpublished) on the JM blog with the DD link this morning. I just received an email from him that he had removed the link and I checked and it was gone. I am still upset by the fact that it was ever there, but I thought I'd give an update since I mentioned it before.

Thank you for this information Kristn. I had to google the DD person and was stunned to find out who you were referring to. It really is a huge disappointment to discover this but I am thankful I did. Just WOW....shaking my head.

[sasonnier]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Hi Sophie, how are you?

I am waiting for the app where we just take a picture of what we eat and it logs all the nutritional info for us Am I lazy of what??

Hey Buffy- doing pretty well...although not as good as you on the weight loss front- congrats on that You must be feelin' goo ooo ooood!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Hi Sophie, how are you?

I am waiting for the app where we just take a picture of what we eat and it logs all the nutritional info for us Am I lazy of what??

I would love this too! I have stopped tracking for now, but I would keep it up with an app like that!

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Hey Buffy- doing pretty well...although not as good as you on the weight loss front- congrats on that You must be feelin' goo ooo ooood!

You're working so hard to get things right, the weight-loss will come.