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Old 12-01-2012, 07:57 AM   #1
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Nutritional Ketosis and Resistance Training

I'm starting this thread for people to share their experiences, questions, or just chat about being in Nutritional Ketosis while focusing on resistance training.
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:27 AM   #2
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WOE: Ketogenic/Nutritional Ketosis
I have to say, I made impressive composition changes with lifting and a ketogenic diet a few years ago - keto guidelines being 65f/30p/5c, so I imagine that the NK ones will be just as impressive. Just a word of warning that getting your body composition done by way of dunk test, or bodpod (or dexa) will be more enlightening than the scale, or even, if you have a lot of extra skin - the calipers.

Good luck, folkzes!
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:39 AM   #3
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Thanks for checking in brandilynn!

I had my BF tested 3 months ago after I hit my goal weight--26.3%. At that point I started a new goal of changing body fat% with a pretty aggressive (for an almost 50 year old) goal of 20%BF .

I test my blood ketones every day with a goal of over 1.5, but it turns out that's a rare reading for me in maintenance. I am usually over .5 which is the lowest level of NK reading.

I keep my protein between 70 and 90g/day. If I go over 90 for more than 1 day I am knocked out of ketosis. I know that as a long-term low-carber my body is pretty adept at gluconeogenesis. Getting the right amount of protein for gaining muscle without becoming a sugar-burner is tricky!

I workout with kettlebells at an RKC studio 2x/week. I also walk 3+ miles a day, and double step up 10 flights of stairs at my work every day that I'm at work. Sometimes I do a kettlebell workout at home 1 day a week, but to be honest I haven't done much of that lately.

I'm very excited to report that my dunk results this morning are in: In 3 months I went from 26.3%BF to 23.5%BF, losing 5 pounds of fat and gaining 2.2 pounds of LBM!
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February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:01 AM   #4
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WOE: Ketogenic/Nutritional Ketosis
This was a few years ago when I started ketogenic eating, so the testing wasnt even a buzz in the underground that I heard of, although it definitely would have been interesting!

I had lost 120 lbs and when I went for my dunk test after switching to keto I weighed in at 151 *dry afternoon) and was 19.7% body fat. Then, not changing anything in my weight lifting or eating (and I only cardio'd minimally, hiking dogs, and zumba for fun twice a week) in 6 months was at 16.7 %, I had lost 8 lbs of fat and gained 5 lbs of muscle at the same dry weight. So lean weight went from 121 to 128.

My hands (I do transcription for a living) have had a horrible year and I have let them rest, and then end of September I had horrible spasms in my glutes/lower back that threw everything out of line for a month, then had a horrible dog bite at the beginning of November, so I imagine my composition has shifted a lot, but the BEST part of all of it is, I eat how I like and that doesnt make me insane with cravings and it helps with the blood sugars that I found were insane - and I may? not have lost *that* much LBM. OR, I may have, but hey, healing came first! :} Heal up well the first time is my motto !

He probably wont be around until spring again, but I will start dunking again then. As low a fat percentage as I was (which was unintentional, it just happened with how I was eating and moving) some of my extra skin areas were kind of bumming me out, so, I wouldnt purposely go that low, but it was an interesting experiement

well, I cant seem to work photobucket :}

Most FABULOUS job on your dunking results!!

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Old 12-01-2012, 11:32 AM   #5
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Wow...you are both inspirations! Congratulations. I only have a Tanita scale for bodyfat and it's all over the place so know it's not accurate.

I started back with weight lifting 3 times a week (Mon/upper, Wed/lower, Fri/upper) in late October. I just hired a personal trainer once a week and start next week.

I haven't tested ketones in a long time as I gained 5# in my first 2 months of NK eating. I think I was having too few calories and definitely not enough protein. I upped it this week and have already dropped 2.5# since Sunday (6 days), so think I"m on the right track now and will test ketones and do my measurements tomorrow.

I love weight training. It helps my posture, and I know it will keep me from osteoporosis....I've been in the "osteopenia" stage now for about 20 years and holding! It's always been the weights and Pilates (which I don't do anymore due to neck issues).
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:11 PM   #6
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Wow...you are both inspirations! Congratulations. I only have a Tanita scale for bodyfat and it's all over the place so know it's not accurate.

I started back with weight lifting 3 times a week (Mon/upper, Wed/lower, Fri/upper) in late October. I just hired a personal trainer once a week and start next week.

I haven't tested ketones in a long time as I gained 5# in my first 2 months of NK eating. I think I was having too few calories and definitely not enough protein. I upped it this week and have already dropped 2.5# since Sunday (6 days), so think I"m on the right track now and will test ketones and do my measurements tomorrow.

I love weight training. It helps my posture, and I know it will keep me from osteoporosis....I've been in the "osteopenia" stage now for about 20 years and holding! It's always been the weights and Pilates (which I don't do anymore due to neck issues).
Congratulations on the loss Shelley! Those BF scales are worthless. I bought the latest and greatest and it is not useful at all. It shows that I'm gaining BF when I'm losing and is all-around frustrating!

There is just such a great feeling about lifting heavy objects!
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:46 PM   #7
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I don't have anything to add to this thread yet (all my questions/comments were in the November NK thread), but I did want to pop in and say hello! I'm sure I'll be back here soon with something to say about one of my favorite topics.

Those are really great BF% numbers, Kristn!! I hope my BF% is at least close to that at my next DEXA scan in 6 months.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:34 PM   #8
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Well, that didn't last long! I already found something to say.

I literally just finished reading the part of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living that talks about muscle soreness and weight gain. That was exactly the question I had the other day, and here it was, answered by the NK gurus themselves. It's "Pearl #8" in Chapter 18 (I have the Kindle version, so don't know what page): "A Sore Muscle is a Swollen Muscle." The most relevant bits are: "...muscle soreness indicates that your muscles are temporarily inflamed, and inflammation causes fluid retention and swelling in that muscle...Once the soreness is gone, the swelling is gone, and the scale comes back down where it's supposed to be."

So, hooray. Maybe tomorrow morning the scale will be where it's "supposed" to be for me for the first time all week!
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:06 PM   #9
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Thanks for checking in brandilynn!

I had my BF tested 3 months ago after I hit my goal weight--26.3%. At that point I started a new goal of changing body fat% with a pretty aggressive (for an almost 50 year old) goal of 20%BF .

I test my blood ketones every day with a goal of over 1.5, but it turns out that's a rare reading for me in maintenance. I am usually over .5 which is the lowest level of NK reading.

I keep my protein between 70 and 90g/day. If I go over 90 for more than 1 day I am knocked out of ketosis. I know that as a long-term low-carber my body is pretty adept at gluconeogenesis. Getting the right amount of protein for gaining muscle without becoming a sugar-burner is tricky!

I workout with kettlebells at an RKC studio 2x/week. I also walk 3+ miles a day, and double step up 10 flights of stairs at my work every day that I'm at work. Sometimes I do a kettlebell workout at home 1 day a week, but to be honest I haven't done much of that lately.

I'm very excited to report that my dunk results this morning are in: In 3 months I went from 26.3%BF to 23.5%BF, losing 5 pounds of fat and gaining 2.2 pounds of LBM!
Congrats, that is HUGE! So do you think there are any scales for home use that are accurate?
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:10 PM   #10
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I don't have anything to add to this thread yet (all my questions/comments were in the November NK thread), but I did want to pop in and say hello! I'm sure I'll be back here soon with something to say about one of my favorite topics.

Those are really great BF% numbers, Kristn!! I hope my BF% is at least close to that at my next DEXA scan in 6 months.
Lindsay, you have inspired me to get the DEXA done! I can't find a reasonably priced dunk test close to me...Houston is usually very competitive, but not on this...yet. GYN is egging me to get the bone density done in January, she knows I won't, but we have fun "discussing" it!
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:05 PM   #11
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Well, that didn't last long! I already found something to say.

I literally just finished reading the part of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living that talks about muscle soreness and weight gain. That was exactly the question I had the other day, and here it was, answered by the NK gurus themselves. It's "Pearl #8" in Chapter 18 (I have the Kindle version, so don't know what page): "A Sore Muscle is a Swollen Muscle." The most relevant bits are: "...muscle soreness indicates that your muscles are temporarily inflamed, and inflammation causes fluid retention and swelling in that muscle...Once the soreness is gone, the swelling is gone, and the scale comes back down where it's supposed to be."

So, hooray. Maybe tomorrow morning the scale will be where it's "supposed" to be for me for the first time all week!
I'm so glad that you found it in the book! I have the kindle versions of both of the books. To be honest I refer to the Performance book more than the Living book. I have lots of electronic notes and such in the Performance book, but I read the Living book once and then moved on. Having lived LC for 11 years I found much more new "stuff" in the Performance book. Perhaps I'll have to start reading the Living book on my daily commute.

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Congrats, that is HUGE! So do you think there are any scales for home use that are accurate?
I have no idea. I read about the scales that people were buying and I bought one with multiple points of contact, not just the feet, input for age, etc. and it's pretty worthless. Once I got the actual BF test I realized that it was reading high for me even on the "athletic" setting. I thought that perhaps I could use it to record trends, but it's all over the map from day to day. I stopped using it out of frustration and lack of good data.
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:39 PM   #12
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I read about the scales that people were buying and I bought one with multiple points of contact, not just the feet, input for age, etc. and it's pretty worthless. Once I got the actual BF test I realized that it was reading high for me even on the "athletic" setting. I thought that perhaps I could use it to record trends, but it's all over the map from day to day. I stopped using it out of frustration and lack of good data.
Oh, there is hope for me! I have one that does height, age, male/female, and a special setting for athletic mode vs. reg. mode. I do it at night and record it so I can watch LBM and fat %age pounds, and it ranges from 26 to 31%. Big range!!!! How do you look for a "dunk" test and/or DEXA for bodyfat? I live in a small town, but 2 hours away (another state) is a big city.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:55 AM   #13
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Lindsay, you have inspired me to get the DEXA done! I can't find a reasonably priced dunk test close to me...Houston is usually very competitive, but not on this...yet. GYN is egging me to get the bone density done in January, she knows I won't, but we have fun "discussing" it!
I hope you can find a place! I thought I'd never find somewhere around Nashville. I guess you could look up DEXA scans in general and then call those places to see if they'll do the body composition analysis in addition to the typical bone density analysis. DEXAs themselves don't seem to be rare, it's just finding a place that will advertise the fact that they'll check your body composition. It's the same machine, so I imagine the only difference is maybe the software on the computer that is "hooked" to the machine and maybe whether or not the staff is trained in body composition. Interestingly enough, when I had my DEXA, there were two nurses in the room with me, and they said they were in training because they just started offering this service! (Hey, maybe I can blame my high BF% on them... they must have done it wrong! Yeah, that's it. )
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:02 AM   #14
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I'm so glad that you found it in the book! I have the kindle versions of both of the books. To be honest I refer to the Performance book more than the Living book. I have lots of electronic notes and such in the Performance book, but I read the Living book once and then moved on. Having lived LC for 11 years I found much more new "stuff" in the Performance book. Perhaps I'll have to start reading the Living book on my daily commute.
I bought the Performance book, read it in about a day, then had to get Living because I was like...."give me more!!!" I love the detailed "science-y" explanations. I'm still not quite finished with Living but have made it to the guest contribution chapters. I'll be so sad when it's over!

I just wanted to add that I think they were exactly right about the weight going back down once the muscle soreness goes away. I didn't even have to wait very long - this morning, my weight was back down two pounds!

And get this, I even ate at an all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet for dinner last night....I tried my hardest to make sure I wasn't getting any (many?) hidden carbs in sauces and things, and I tried to stay moderate with protein portions. Everything was so yummy, I was afraid I was eating something I shouldn't have....and I felt so great afterwards, I thought that I surely had too many carbs (causing some kind of sugar high??). I don't have my next box of ketone strips yet (come on, Canada!!) or even any ketostix so I can't test to see if it knocked me out of ketosis. But I'll take the two pound overnight weight loss as a positive sign!
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:30 PM   #15
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Happy rest day Lindsay! I can't believe you made it through a Chinese buffet--great job!

And congrats on losing the muscle-water-weight!
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:35 PM   #16
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Oh, there is hope for me! I have one that does height, age, male/female, and a special setting for athletic mode vs. reg. mode. I do it at night and record it so I can watch LBM and fat %age pounds, and it ranges from 26 to 31%. Big range!!!! How do you look for a "dunk" test and/or DEXA for bodyfat? I live in a small town, but 2 hours away (another state) is a big city.
Shelley--there is always hope!!! But don't trust that scale. You can google search for these things in the city that you're looking at. You can also call gyms and ask if they know of this service in the city. The dunk that I go to is a mobile truck that travels all around the area. The kettlebell studio has it visit every 3 months and you can just sign up for a time--and you don't have to be a member either.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:37 PM   #17
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Shelley--I was doing a search for DEXA and saw that there was one in Pullman near WSU. Is that anywhere close to where you live?
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:07 PM   #18
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Shelley--I was doing a search for DEXA and saw that there was one in Pullman near WSU. Is that anywhere close to where you live?
I think it's about an 8 hour drive from me. h aha

I'll ask the gal that is in charge of the gym to see what she says. I know the hospital does DEXA scans as I had one for bone density...will see if they do it for body composition. Can't hurt to ask. Thanks for looking for me.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:07 AM   #19
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Does resitance training crank BHB levels the following day?

As mentioned elsewhere, I am doing the "StrongLifts 5x5" program while in NK. I started NK a couple of months before the powerlifting program. My BHB levels are all over the place, but >1.5 most mornings.

I usually also check my level just before and just after a SL workout. These workouts are quite strenuous. My heart rate monitor will often indicate I have burnt >1000 Cal during one of them. Takes me a long time to get through one as well. Often in excess of 2 hours.

Anyway, I have noticed that the day after one of these workouts I can spike > 4 mM BHB levels. Not sure if this is just coincidence or if my body is cranking the BHB levels in anticipation of another workout.

From what I have read AcAc plus BHB (ketone bodies) can represent the source of up to 40% of the energy budget during starvation. However, muscles, after keto adaptation, use little of the BHB, apparently sparing it for the brain. Instead muscles are said to subsist on free fatty acids (FFAs).

Pretty complex situation, but I was just wondering if anyone else had seen what might be anticipatory spikes in BK with their resistance training?

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Old 12-05-2012, 07:58 AM   #20
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How are the workouts going? The kettlebell classes that I take are led by a variety of trainers so they tend to mix things up. Monday's class was a killer (heavy weights and not a lot of rest) and I'm a bit afraid of going again tonight, but I always do. I much prefer the heavy weights/working on form classes, but it's good to do something different.

I have been adjusting my intake over the past few days to see if I can increase the fat loss. I realized that if I lose 5 pounds of fat I'll be at 20% BF and I could possibly do this by my birthday (Jan 1). There are a lot of holidays and parties in between now and then so it may be a lost cause, but right now I'm feeling motivated so I'm going with it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:59 AM   #21
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Pretty complex situation, but I was just wondering if anyone else had seen what might be anticipatory spikes in BK with their resistance training?

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I'm not sure if it's an anticipatory spike by I do notice that I get higher readings two days after a heavy workout.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #22
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i plan on starting weights again when this cold gets out of me soon - we have a machine here at work and also a treadmill that i use to warm up with and free weights. I also like doing Planks for core strength - anyone have any good sites for beginner weight training programs?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:41 PM   #23
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Google up Rippetoe beginner program and that's a good starter if you do not find another option readily. Yaay Mark Rippetoe!
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:07 AM   #24
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Google up Rippetoe beginner program and that's a good starter if you do not find another option readily. Yaay Mark Rippetoe!


Once again, 2 days after a heavy workout and I recorded my highest ketone reading of the week so far (1.8). I'm hoping to keep my ketones up through changes in my diet along with the workouts (fingers crossed).

The owner of the kettlebell studio where I train is in the January Oprah magazine. She has an inspiring story of her own and I am so grateful that my DH and I stumbled into her studio! I am a kettlebell convert.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:39 PM   #25
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I just wanted to check in on this thread again...nothing new to report other than the encouraging ketone level I had earlier this morning (1.5). My weight hasn't really changed in a while other than the typical day-to-day ups and downs. Overall, I'm weighing each day about 3-4 pounds less than when I started NK on November 1.

This week I've been doing the same heavy weight workout sequence I did last week, and I've noticed substantially less soreness this time around. But, almost like clockwork, I felt some soreness yesterday and my weight was up about 1.5 pounds from the previous day. That's exactly what happened last week, only to a lesser degree this week. I don't mind a small, temporary bump up each week like that (due to soreness!), as long as it eventually starts becoming surrounded by larger drops.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:01 AM   #26
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Great to hear from you Lindsay! Are you still enjoying the new workouts? And are you able to get in some rest days?

I have gone the other direction and I'm trying to figure out how to add one more day of kettlebells a week (I currently do two). Having the classes on my calendar seems to be the only way that I am consistent even though we have kettlebells at home. Unfortunately the classes are very $$ and adding in one more a week for DH and I is a bit prohibitive.

If you find that you're not losing you may have to lower your fat intake to get that going again.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:22 AM   #27
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Great to hear from you Lindsay! Are you still enjoying the new workouts? And are you able to get in some rest days?

I have gone the other direction and I'm trying to figure out how to add one more day of kettlebells a week (I currently do two). Having the classes on my calendar seems to be the only way that I am consistent even though we have kettlebells at home. Unfortunately the classes are very $$ and adding in one more a week for DH and I is a bit prohibitive.

If you find that you're not losing you may have to lower your fat intake to get that going again.
I love the workouts - probably going to do the same sequence again next week before I move on to the next set of workouts in the system. I have dropped one day out of my usual workout week (went from 6 to 5). I don't know if I can ever get myself to do less than that, unless it's one of those horrible work weeks where I don't even have time to sleep, much less work out!

I have already started dropping fat intake a bit by not including coconut oil when I cook my eggs. I think it was contributing to bathroom issues...I've noticed no more of those now that the CO is gone. I'm trying to keep my calories around 1600-1800 rather than 2000 like they had the tendency to be on some days. That decrease is primarily coming from fat and a little less protein since I'm keeping the carbs constant.

About the kettlebells, since you have some at home, have you considered using videos once a week instead of adding another class? You only have to buy the DVDs once (until you get addicted to videos and have to have new ones all the time, like me ). It may be the structure of "going to class" that you need, but maybe you can put your home workout on your calendar? I'm a HUGE fan of working out with DVDs and have kind of a big collection, plus lots of equipment at home. I know there are tons of kettlebell videos out there, although I haven't bought any of them (yet!!). I hesitate because I don't have much more room to store kettlebells with all my other dumbbells, barbell, resistance bands, resistance tubing, club step, high step, stability ball, mat, ankle weights, wrist weights, weighted gloves....and pull up bar!

Anyway, I put my daily workout as a task on my Google calendar, so I have the satisfaction of checking off the little box when I get done! Having it on my calendar along with all my work stuff makes it look like a "must do" rather than something optional I might do if I get the time.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnstrungHarp View Post
I love the workouts - probably going to do the same sequence again next week before I move on to the next set of workouts in the system. I have dropped one day out of my usual workout week (went from 6 to 5). I don't know if I can ever get myself to do less than that, unless it's one of those horrible work weeks where I don't even have time to sleep, much less work out!
I'm glad that you're enjoying the workouts! I know what you mean about horrible work weeks. My work has gotten very busy and stressful lately. I did get good news this week that I'm going to have one .5 FTE reporting to me--we just made the hiring decision yesterday. She'll start after the first of the year but I'm relieved just knowing that I'll have some help in the new year! There's no way I would choose to do a video workout after work these days, but I force myself to go to class since I've already paid (that's my accountant brain talking).

Quote:
I have already started dropping fat intake a bit by not including coconut oil when I cook my eggs. I think it was contributing to bathroom issues...I've noticed no more of those now that the CO is gone. I'm trying to keep my calories around 1600-1800 rather than 2000 like they had the tendency to be on some days. That decrease is primarily coming from fat and a little less protein since I'm keeping the carbs constant.
That sounds perfect. Hopefully you'll see some progress soon!

Quote:
About the kettlebells, since you have some at home, have you considered using videos once a week instead of adding another class? You only have to buy the DVDs once (until you get addicted to videos and have to have new ones all the time, like me ). It may be the structure of "going to class" that you need, but maybe you can put your home workout on your calendar? I'm a HUGE fan of working out with DVDs and have kind of a big collection, plus lots of equipment at home. I know there are tons of kettlebell videos out there, although I haven't bought any of them (yet!!). I hesitate because I don't have much more room to store kettlebells with all my other dumbbells, barbell, resistance bands, resistance tubing, club step, high step, stability ball, mat, ankle weights, wrist weights, weighted gloves....and pull up bar!

Anyway, I put my daily workout as a task on my Google calendar, so I have the satisfaction of checking off the little box when I get done! Having it on my calendar along with all my work stuff makes it look like a "must do" rather than something optional I might do if I get the time.
I do think the video workout idea is a good one and I could probably fit in one workout on the weekend. We do have one kettlebell video that we bought for working on our form and I might order another one now that DH and I are more advanced.

It sounds like you have quite a collection of equipment! I just have the pull-up bar and the kettlebells.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:31 AM   #29
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Hi ya all -- read this thread last night and it made me get right up and do some weight workout I have been kinda not doing anything except walk my dogs on non-pool days and that has to stop...! So, got my butt right up and did 45 minutes of weights and floor work.

I do aqua aerobics with resistance in the Y pool three times a week which is good, but thinking I should probably go into the fitness area on the other days and do the machines. I'm paying for the membership so I dumb not to.

I kinda scared of kettleballs - maybe I should watch a class on youtube to see if I would/could do it. The Y has classes for them too!

Guess what I'm saying is I should learn from you all and get moving.

Arlene
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:02 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by wildflower View Post
Hi ya all -- read this thread last night and it made me get right up and do some weight workout I have been kinda not doing anything except walk my dogs on non-pool days and that has to stop...! So, got my butt right up and did 45 minutes of weights and floor work.
wildflower!

Quote:
I do aqua aerobics with resistance in the Y pool three times a week which is good, but thinking I should probably go into the fitness area on the other days and do the machines. I'm paying for the membership so I dumb not to.
It sounds like you're already doing quite a bit. I'm always for adding some weight-work, but I'm kind of twisted that way. Do they have free-weights at the Y? I encourage you to explore the free weight room if they have one.

Quote:
I kinda scared of kettleballs - maybe I should watch a class on youtube to see if I would/could do it. The Y has classes for them too!
Take the class! I think it would be hard to learn good technique only from a video. DH and I have been going to class since June and we are still working on technique (and probably will be forever). A good, certified kettlebell trainer is really crucial especially when you're learning.

Quote:
Guess what I'm saying is I should learn from you all and get moving.

Arlene
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