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Old 12-21-2012, 05:10 AM   #31
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Punkin--have you read The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance?
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:30 PM   #32
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Punkin--have you read The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance?
No, but I am ordering it right after xmas.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:06 AM   #33
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I do all resistance training now, no endurance, per se.
However once you are in NK, you don't bonk. Bonking happens to people who do not eat a ketogenic diet (eg, 99.999% of people in the US). They are forced to rely on limited glycogen reserves as they are not efficient at utilizing fat. Once you convert to a fat-dominant (NK) diet your body has all your fat reserves online. People typically have weeks or months of fat reserves.

That said, the transition can be arduous. Especially for athletes.

Oh, the other benefit is that burning fat requires less oxygen to produce the same amount of energy -- 30% less. I actually find this a little surreal. I would be on the treadmill, look down at my heart rate and see that it was very high. So high that pre-NK I would be sucking air. But I am just breathing at a comfortable rate.

Where NK is weak is in sports that require bursts of energy--maximal performance. For endurance NK beats carb-metabolism hands down.

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Old 12-26-2012, 04:17 AM   #34
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That said, the transition can be arduous. Especially for athletes.

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Do you know how long it takes to make the transition. I have been doing NK for a little over a week now. For the first few days I seemed to lack the energy to maintain the same effort, however now I notice no difference. What I am struggling with now though is feelings of low blood sugar in between meals. I am getting enough calories and eating 5 meals a day, so I don't think I should be experiencing the feelings associated with hypoglycemia. I am figuring that it is just because my body is used to using carbohydrates as an energy source for exercise. Does it take a few weeks for your body to reprogram to start using fats? Is there anything I can do to help it along?
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:11 PM   #35
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It takes about 3 weeks. I was a little over three weeks when I ran the Dallas Marathon. My long run at the 10 day mark was horrid, so I know that some needed transition took place in that time because I did the marathon credibly. I think there is no down side to LCHF for an endurance athlete, especially in training. Only time will tell, however, if maximum performance can be achieved on really long events (IM triathlon comes to mind) without carb supplementing during the race. Your training should make all this clear.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:19 PM   #36
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Looking forward to reading later.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:04 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkin View Post
Do you know how long it takes to make the transition. I have been doing NK for a little over a week now. For the first few days I seemed to lack the energy to maintain the same effort, however now I notice no difference. What I am struggling with now though is feelings of low blood sugar in between meals. I am getting enough calories and eating 5 meals a day, so I don't think I should be experiencing the feelings associated with hypoglycemia. I am figuring that it is just because my body is used to using carbohydrates as an energy source for exercise. Does it take a few weeks for your body to reprogram to start using fats? Is there anything I can do to help it along?
Hi Punkin,
eatingacademy has some info about ketosis and athletic performance. Also some stuff in the comments section suggests some characteristics of performance (eg VO2max) that suffer in NK compare to non-NK, do improve over a much longer time span. (Like years.)

I may have mentioned this to you in another thread, but getting sufficient salt is critical when you are in NK. Phinney, etc. recommend supplementation with a several extra grams of NaCl/day.

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:46 PM   #38
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I just thought I would chime in with my running experience. The quality of my jogging has, in fact, changed.

I agree with Peter Attia ( that: "The one drawback, it seems, to completely eliminating carbohydrates from my diet was a loss of all-out top end power."

I used to jog all the time. I cut down because I wasn't satisfied with the effect it was having on my body composition (namely, none). It was also making me ravenously hungry. I actually started gaining.

However, jogging is an activity that I absolutely LOVE - and my husband and I love doing it together. Now I go about 2 x's per week for one hour. The quality of my jogging has changed:

- I'm a bit slower, the small bursts of energy are no longer there.

Besides this, I notice no negative effect on my performance. However, there are some positives: when I'm finished jogging, I don't feel "depleted" and have ravenous hunger. I don't feel exhausted. I carry on with my day. In the past, I would have to jog in the evening because it wore me out too much and made me too hungry if I started the jog in the beginning.

Also, since my jogging seems to be a bit slower now, I make it into a more meditative practice. I work on my "yoga" breathing and focus on perfect foot placement and body hold (keeping a tight core).

Nowadays, my husband jogs a bit faster. I let him lead the way. Keep in mind, I'm never that far behind him. Again, I'm just a tad bit slower and the sudden bursts are gone. Instead, I have a steady flow of energy.

I would say this is a positive development: I am less prone to injury, I can jog at anytime during the day, jogging has become more of a meditative, stress-free practice, and I don't get the terrible hunger pangs 1 hour after I've returned.

Hope this helps someone!
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:01 AM   #39
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I just thought I would chime in with my running experience. The quality of my jogging has, in fact, changed.

I agree with Peter Attia (from the link posted above) that: "The one drawback, it seems, to completely eliminating carbohydrates from my diet was a loss of all-out top end power."

I used to jog all the time. I cut down because I wasn't satisfied with the effect it was having on my body composition (namely, none). It was also making me ravenously hungry. I actually started gaining.

However, jogging is an activity that I absolutely LOVE - and my husband and I love doing it together. Now I go about 2 x's per week for one hour. The quality of my jogging has changed:

- I'm a bit slower, the small bursts of energy are no longer there.

Besides this, I notice no negative effect on my performance. However, there are some positives: when I'm finished jogging, I don't feel "depleted" and have ravenous hunger. I don't feel exhausted. I carry on with my day. In the past, I would have to jog in the evening because it wore me out too much and made me too hungry if I started the jog in the beginning.

Also, since my jogging seems to be a bit slower now, I make it into a more meditative practice. I work on my "yoga" breathing and focus on perfect foot placement and body hold (keeping a tight core).

Nowadays, my husband jogs a bit faster. I let him lead the way. Keep in mind, I'm never that far behind him. Again, I'm just a tad bit slower and the sudden bursts are gone. Instead, I have a steady flow of energy.

I would say this is a positive development: I am less prone to injury, I can jog at anytime during the day, jogging has become more of a meditative, stress-free practice, and I don't get the terrible hunger pangs 1 hour after I've returned.

Hope this helps someone!
It has helped me.

I have been LC forever and used to run quite a bit. I have an achilles injury that has had me sidelined for well over a year. I have surgery scheduled next week and hope to get back to it in a couple of months.

I ate LC overall while I was running, but targeted carbs around my runs. If I went over 7 miles or so I would use gels and such.

I am working on getting myself ketoadapted now, and hope to be able to run without gels when I am able to get back at it.

I am slow but steady, so how you describe your runs sounds perfect to me.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:31 AM   #40
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GME: I'm glad I could help.

That must be really hard to be such a big fan of jogging and not be able to do it at the moment because of injury.

Will you really be able to jog after your surgery? Or do you think you'll have to find a new sport?

I actually find that I get the runners high after 30 min of weight training.... so, if jogging hurts, you can turn to weight training.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:06 PM   #41
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GME: I'm glad I could help.

That must be really hard to be such a big fan of jogging and not be able to do it at the moment because of injury.

Will you really be able to jog after your surgery? Or do you think you'll have to find a new sport?

I actually find that I get the runners high after 30 min of weight training.... so, if jogging hurts, you can turn to weight training.
The ortho doc says I'll run again. At first I just had a straighforward achilles strain. I ran a trail half I wasn't really trained for (I had trained the distance and had been hiking a lot that summer. Those two don't combine to being trained for a trail half however ).

The strain was healing up OK, then started getting worse again. I finally went back to the doctor and he did an MRI and found a big ol honkin' cyst pushing on the tendon. He says the tendon itself looks great, so I've got that going for me.

What I really want to do is run a marathon. I was training for one in San Francisco (got in through a lottery and everything ) when I had to quit. I'm not sure what I'll do if I can't run again.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:15 PM   #42
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That said, the transition can be arduous. Especially for athletes.
I have been in nutritional ketosis (BK readings above .5) for about 3 weeks. I thought I would try a fasted long run today at a nice gentle pace.

I am going to assume I am not nearly keto adapted as of yet. Miles 5 to 12 were tough. Not sure what I expected to be different.

Anyway, this is a data point from which I can measure progress and how long that progress takes to occur.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:05 PM   #43
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I am working on getting myself ketoadapted now, and hope to be able to run without gels when I am able to get back at it. :
yes, keep us updated, because I have been in NK for about 4 weeks now and still notice a difference. If you can perform well once ketoadapted let us know because I can't see doing racing unless supplementing with simple carbs. My recovery time and speed are completely gone, endurance is ok, but in general athletic performance on LC has completely diminished.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:13 PM   #44
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As I've said before it took me 10 weeks to see a full adaptation... and after that it really did get soooooo much better- more consistent, predictable & all around easier. Plus, I actually saw gains that I didn't expect to see.

However, I will it seems that going in & out of ketosis is problematic...I can't fully tell if I have to completely re-adapt, running wise, but after having some higher carb days that obviously kicked me out of ketosis, I feel like I'm not quite where I was and that is really discouraging.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:16 AM   #45
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Can you give an example of what you eat on a higher carb day that kicks you out of ketosis?
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:13 PM   #46
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Well, pretty much anything that has me netting carbs over 40-45g... will, IMHO, 'kick me out'

BUT I'm not a blood tester, rather I have relied on smell of urine & taste in mouth as a fairly reliable indicator of where I'm at....(I have the urine strips as well) and so far this has been backed up by my weight loss, appetite etc. There is a vague middle group where my appetite is barely controlled, energy isn't stable and weight loss stalls completely.

However, I just had an 8 mile run yesterday that went fantasticly better than it should have...so what do I know? LOL I had a few higher carb days last week (never more than 50g) that
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #47
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I am going to assume I am not nearly keto adapted as of yet. Miles 5 to 12 were tough. Not sure what I expected to be different.

Anyway, this is a data point from which I can measure progress and how long that progress takes to occur.
Went for another 12 mile run (two weeks after run quoted above) and there was a huge difference. The previous run was 12 miles at a 12:09 pace over a flat trail. Most of that run was tough and I felt horrible. I ran a somewhat better 10 mile run last weekend.

Today's 12 miler was run at 11:35 pace over a very hilly trail. For ten of the 12 miles it felt like I was on autopilot. The last two miles were a little bit of work. Overall, I can feel the progress and my body adapting. My BK reading yesterday morning was 3.0. I have been in NK for going on six weeks now.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:06 PM   #48
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Yes! That's exactly the difference I feel- autopilot is a perfect explanation. Sometimes the last mile or two can be slightly more of a challenge if I'm pushing new distance, but otherwise its a dream, huh?

I ran 13.2 on Monday (it was supposed to be a 10 miler) and felt absolutely fantastic and the time flew by....even though I was on the treadmill (sick kids, so I had to stay inside). That's saying something- 2+ hours on a treadmill- LOL

Whether I lose another pound or not (I'm below goal, just vain) I choose to eat this way beceause I love how I feel when running...no more carbo loading here
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:34 AM   #49
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The London 2012 winner was on ucan but i'm not sure if he was LC as well.
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