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Old 11-01-2012, 06:08 AM   #1
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
Start Date: August 6, 2001
November Nutritional Ketosis Thread!

Welcome to the November thread for the Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Group!

The original thread can be found here. The September thread can be found here. The October thread can be found here.

We are following the Phinney/Volek books, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance, with tweaks that we’ve learned along the way.

Highly recommended is Dr. Stephen Phinney’s interview on Long-Term Stalls & Weight Gain Even On A Well-Formulated Low-Carb Diet—Google it!!

The main points for getting into NK are:
  • Find your correct protein gram range (stay at lower end of range at least until in ketosis)
  • Find your correct carb gram range (under 50 grams, many find under 20 or 30)
  • Add fat to satiety and to your goals (65%-85% of total calories)


You are putting your body into a state (nutritional ketosis) where it can easily access body fat for fuel. Part of your daily fat % will be made up from body fat so you do not have to have a certain high percentage of fat from your diet. Phinney/Volek say that fat will generally fall in the 65% - 85% range.

The Phinney/Volek Performance book advises that if you are eating fat to satiety and not losing weight you should lower your dietary fat. Just getting into NK will not make you lose weight, you must be in an energy deficit. If you give your body all the energy it needs through your intake it will not access your body fat stores. But this is not a low-fat or low-calorie diet. In his interview Dr. Phinney advised that you should never go below 1200 calories/day. Also too much high intensity exercise can cause your body to down regulate its metabolism. Finding the right balance is key!

Many of us are using a blood ketone meter to track our ketosis and adjust our macronutrients based on the readings. This is not necessary, but we’ve found it extremely helpful and it is recommended!

I have put together a cheat sheet from posts on the old list. This is not inclusive and is really just a starting point. You can find it in my signature line or here.

Note on protein requirement formulas:

Phinney and Volek recommend a protein range of .6 - 1 X lean body mass. We have interpreted this as goal lean body mass. To figure this out you need your goal weight and goal fat percentage.

Goal weight * (1-goal BF%) = Goal LBM
Goal LBM * .6 = bottom of the range

Example for 150 pound woman with 20% BF Goal

150 * (1-.2) = 120
120 * .6 = 72
Protein range = 72 - 120.

The Phinney/Volek calculation for protein is a range that goes up pretty high. Many people have to start out at the low end to get into NK using this formula.

The Dr. Jan Kwasniewski (Optimal Diet) formula for figuring out goal weight and protein is also helpful if you don’t know where to start (don't have a goal LBM). We do not generally follow his formula for carbs and fat although you may also find them helpful as a starting point.

Mike has put together a FAQ for this WOE, you can find it here.

Here is the recipe thread that svenskamae started: High fat, low to moderate protein recipes?

Daily high fat/moderate protein/low carb menus can be found here.

Happy losing everyone!!
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February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?
Nutritional Ketosis Thread Information and Posts of Interest
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March 2012 to August 2012--175/150 Made Goal 8/27/12!
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:35 AM   #2
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:03 AM   #3
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:13 AM   #4
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:17 AM   #5
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Bk reading was 1.3 this morning Slowly creeping up!
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:42 AM   #6
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Happy November!

I really thought we'd have a ton of trick-or-treaters last night, but we had exactly 6 knocks on the door (most had 3-5 kids together, so more than 6 kids, but still not a lot). SO much leftover candy! I caved and ate some, then felt like crap, then sent the rest with my husband to his office this morning to get it out of my house! And I knew. I KNEW it would make me feel like crap. But I did it anyway. And it was yummy. *sigh* I think it was just bad timing, as I'd had nothing but broth and protein shakes during the day yesterday in an effort to settle my upset insides, so I was feeling quite hungry, and the pb/cream cheese/hwc concoction in my fridge was completely unappealing.

What's done is done. I can only move forward now, and get right back down to business!

In other news, we did dress up my 7-month-old in a costume. Please don't hate me for photo-whoring his adorableness here
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Weight goals currently on hold due to pregnancy...baby #2 coming late October/early November 2013!

Pre-pregnancy #2 weight: 193 (the day I found out I was pregnant)
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:54 AM   #7
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OH my gosh what a cutie!!! Glad you posted that!
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:54 AM   #8
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Well, I meant to test my fasting BK this morning to see if I was back in nutritional ketosis after my indiscretions last weekend, but completely forgot until after I'd already had my coffee with coconut milk and butter. I'll be sure to test tomorrow morning. I was curious to see how long it would take to get those ketones back up after a carb-up. Oh well.

Tablis, MCT stands for medium chain triglycerides, and is a type of fat found in coconut oil. It is extracted from sources such as coconut and palm kernel oil, and is sold as a liquid supplement. Due to it's shorter length, it is processed by the body differently than other fats, making it very thermogenic and ketogenic. I usually take a tablespoon at a time and can literally feel the thermogenic effects. I think coconut oil is something like 66% medium chain triglycerides, so definitely has the same benefits.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:58 AM   #9
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Happy November everyone!
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillybean720 View Post
What's done is done. I can only move forward now, and get right back down to business!
Exactly! Luckily, my stepson had a football game last night, so I had an excuse to not hand out candy, and not have it in the house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jillybean720 View Post
In other news, we did dress up my 7-month-old in a costume. Please don't hate me for photo-whoring his adorableness here
Awe, too cute!
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:18 AM   #11
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Quick Poll About Dairy

So, I've seen a few people mention that dairy stalls them. I've been mostly paleo for a while, so have avoided dairy for the most part. I've recently decided to try adding dairy back to my diet in the form of butter, cream, and occasionally hard cheese (all preferably from grass-fed cows) , but am nervous that it will prevent me from dropping the last few pounds. So, I'd like to take a quick poll:

Does dairy stall you while in nutritional ketosis (assuming you're not evereating it)? Have any of you noticed any acne, joint pain, or water retention associated with dairy consumption?

Thanks for your input!
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:26 AM   #12
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton_02 View Post
So, I've seen a few people mention that dairy stalls them. I've been mostly paleo for a while, so have avoided dairy for the most part. I've recently decided to try adding dairy back to my diet in the form of butter, cream, and occasionally hard cheese (all preferably from grass-fed cows) , but am nervous that it will prevent me from dropping the last few pounds. So, I'd like to take a quick poll:

Does dairy stall you while in nutritional ketosis (assuming you're not evereating it)? Have any of you noticed any acne, joint pain, or water retention associated with dairy consumption?

Thanks for your input!
I was also paleo and had sworn off of dairy. Since I started this I have added fatty dairy back with no ill effects.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:26 AM   #13
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Wow--super cute kiddo Jillybean!
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:27 AM   #14
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Bk reading was 1.3 this morning Slowly creeping up!
Woo hoo!!
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:44 AM   #15
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I was also paleo and had sworn off of dairy. Since I started this I have added fatty dairy back with no ill effects.
That's great to know! I dairy, and would love to be able to include it in my diet. I'm going to ease into it slowly and keep a close eye on things. Thanks!
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton_02 View Post
Well, I meant to test my fasting BK this morning to see if I was back in nutritional ketosis after my indiscretions last weekend, but completely forgot until after I'd already had my coffee with coconut milk and butter. I'll be sure to test tomorrow morning. I was curious to see how long it would take to get those ketones back up after a carb-up. Oh well.

Tablis, MCT stands for medium chain triglycerides, and is a type of fat found in coconut oil. It is extracted from sources such as coconut and palm kernel oil, and is sold as a liquid supplement. Due to it's shorter length, it is processed by the body differently than other fats, making it very thermogenic and ketogenic. I usually take a tablespoon at a time and can literally feel the thermogenic effects. I think coconut oil is something like 66% medium chain triglycerides, so definitely has the same benefits.
Tx for the explanation
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:28 AM   #17
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Oh Jilly, I am so in with Mr. Baby! What an adorable cutie he is!!!
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:07 AM   #18
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Oh Jilly, I am so in with Mr. Baby! What an adorable cutie he is!!!
me too- he's so cute!
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:06 PM   #19
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Reading and keeping up with post!
Wowzers, great stats!!!
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:45 PM   #20
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Thanks for kiddo compliments, everyone. I was VERY afraid when I was pregnant that he may be born with a cleft lip or pallet because I was taking high doses of vitamin A palmitate daily for the first few weeks since I had no idea I was pregnant, which is known to be quite teratogenic. Seeing him so normal is such a gift!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton_02 View Post
Does dairy stall you while in nutritional ketosis (assuming you're not evereating it)? Have any of you noticed any acne, joint pain, or water retention associated with dairy consumption?
I can't say if dairy stalls me because I have honestly never tried to cut it out. I can't imagine eating low carb without including cheese. I do believe cheese is its own food group

I eat dairy every day and have never had acne (but I've always had clear skin, even as a teen), no joint pain to speak of, and no unusual water retention as long as I actually drink enough (I'm challenged when it come to drinking enough water!).
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:37 PM   #21
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He is such a Cutie, Jillybean!
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:41 PM   #22
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"upgrade your meter today"

Chance to get a free Precision Xtra meter! (your choice of 3 different meters, including the P.X.)

No free strips though.

Do a search!
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:48 PM   #23
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Chance to get a free Precision Xtra meter! (your choice of 3 different meters, including the P.X.)

No free strips though.

Do a search!
Thanks! I just ordered one. Can't have too many meters.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:40 PM   #24
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Great job getting us launched into November Kristn!

Jilly, he is adorable! How are you feeling?

Sutton, hummm, dairy. Hard cheeses do not affect me like say, milk or yogurts. I stick to swiss, cheddar, parmesan, romano, and of course cream cheese/ricotta/sour cream. I usually have emergency cheese with me all the time. But it is personal how each one reacts to it.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:09 PM   #25
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Hey guys! I live in ny and we left town in advance of the hurricane bc we always lose power when there is a bad storm. So we drove 20 hrs to stay w/ my family in Arkansas. It has been quite challenging with my kids out of school, not in my kitchen with easy access to my regular foods and structure. I have managed to maintain this woe for the most part. However, I know i have been over doing nuts and pb. I am really grateful for having family that we could go to as well as an impromptu trip. But, i am ready for my regular routine. Thx for the support.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:17 PM   #26
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Wasn't going to post , but

That is one of the cutest baby pix ever!

Yay jb baby pic
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasonnier View Post
Hey guys! I live in ny and we left town in advance of the hurricane bc we always lose power when there is a bad storm. So we drove 20 hrs to stay w/ my family in Arkansas. It has been quite challenging with my kids out of school, not in my kitchen with easy access to my regular foods and structure. I have managed to maintain this woe for the most part. However, I know i have been over doing nuts and pb. I am really grateful for having family that we could go to as well as an impromptu trip. But, i am ready for my regular routine. Thx for the support.
Wow, so sorry to hear about your storm experience. I hope things go back to normal soon!
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:50 AM   #28
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Just a quick note to say thank you thank you thank you
all your help and advice got me up to speed on NK in no time.
Its the third day and I've lost 2.1 kg which is huge for me bc
I have been stalled forever (even though I was in some kind
of ketosis.) Can't wait to get my meter.

Averages for the past 3 days:
Carbs: 26. 8 gms
Fat: 151.3 gms
Protein: 58 gms

Also, I started magnesium citrate and its starting to work so thanks on that too.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:16 AM   #29
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Good morning everyone!

sasonnier--I'm glad to hear that you're safe and were able to get out of town for the storm. It sounds like you made good choices in a tough situation! Did you have damage from the storm?

Congratulations tablis on your loss! I know what you mean about long stalls--I've been there. I was absolutely amazed when I started losing again.

I had a business lunch yesterday with a woman who has been a great help to me. She picked PF Changs and I was worried that I wouldn't be able to find anything to eat. I was able to make a good choice, but way more protein and carbs than I normally have for lunch. I had less protein and no carbs for dinner and this morning I'm still in ketosis with .8.

Hopefully the ketosis will last through the weekend as we are off on a short road trip this afternoon to visit family and see my son's HS ensemble perform. We're bringing lots of LC stuff with us and I intend to stay on plan as much as possible. Unfortunately I will have less control over my food situation than I did on vacation. Family get-togethers seem to always center around carbs. Thank goodness I will have lots of cream cheese in the cooler.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:18 AM   #30
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Picturing Kristn walking around family gathering with a big block of cream cheese clutched in her little hot hands

You can do it Kristn, stay strong. I am going on a little trip to see family too, have my cooler out with things to take along.
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