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Old 11-29-2012, 06:00 AM   #871
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Originally Posted by tablis View Post
Can't post links on this forum. There are two free meters that I know of. I think they are both still free.

google free abbott keytone meter and you will find a hit near the top that starts with myfreestyle... they have three free meters to chose from take the one that does both glucose and ketones (precision xtra).

if you go to American Diabetes Wholesale and search for novamax plus there is a one time only option to get a free ketone meter with a purchase of a 10 pack of ketone testing strips. Its bundled together and costs 23.99 which is the cost of the strips alone.

good luck.
Welcome to the thread mizzcase!

In addition to the meters mentioned by tablis, you should also be able to get a free Nova Max meter with 2 ketone strips (4 if you count the 2 that you get for registering the meter). Google Free Nova Max Plus offer. Some people get the free meters pretty quickly, others have waited weeks--thus the attraction of the free Nova Max Plus meter from American Diabetes Wholesale. The Precision Xtra doesn't come with any ketone strips, those must be ordered and the cheapest place is through a Canadian Pharmacy. The cheapest place to order the Nova Max Plus Ketone strips is American Diabetes Wholesale.

Also, apparently the Nova meter isn't the greatest for glucose monitoring if you think you'll be using it for that.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:03 AM   #872
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Originally Posted by portcop01 View Post
How many of you eat mayo? How many make there own mayo?i love tuna but hate to make mayo sometimes.
i personally hate mayo but my family eats it... if it really is easy to make maybe i'd do it for them-its probably healthier. Can someone post instructions?
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:04 AM   #873
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Further to this, I've been reading up a little before I start upping the Vitamin A as I am taking lots of Vitamin D now in an attempt to raise my dismal levels.

I just read an article on the Vitamin D council website that says "the benefits of vitamin D are almost entirely negated in those with the highest vitamin A intake" So I guess this might take some more research before we jump into extra vitamin a supplements.

It goes on to say that many people take cod liver oil which has enough vitamin a in it to block all the vitamin d. They actullay state "Avoid cod liver oil like the poison it is and check your multivitamins". Thats a pretty strong statement.

I don't know how reliable this is but you make want to take a look at the study.
Does anyone else ever feel like there is information overload on supplements?? I have the ones that I take, for varying reasons, and I've added and subtracted over the years based on recommendations, reading, tests, etc.. But I have had periods where I stopped altogether because I couldn't discern any difference and I couldn't figure out what recommendations to follow!
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:07 AM   #874
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I need to catch up on this thread, so sorry to be posting out of nowhere. I have been doing NK on JUDDD up days and mostly lean protein on JUDDD down days, and it's working well for me. Anyway, I wanted to post some information about the limitations of urine testing for ketones, compared to blood testing, from the newsletter of American Diabetes Warehouse. This is taken from "Why Test for Ketones: Is Blood or Urine More Accurate?" by Roberta Kleinman.

"Why test for ketones? A study published in Diabetes Metabolism in April 2007 tested 529 patients comparing capillary blood verses urine ketone testing and found that capillary blood was more accurate in diagnosing DKA. Another study published in Diabetes Medicine (Volume 23, March 2006) concluded that young people with Type 1 Diabetes should use blood testing over urine testing at home for convenience, accuracy and to decrease ER visits, hospitalizations and costs.

Reasons for ketone blood testing:
Accuracy - Certain medications can give false readings when testing with urine. Levadopa taken for Parkinson's or Restless Leg Syndrome can cause a false negative result. Ace Inhibitors such as Lisinopril can cause false positives when using urine tests containing nitroprussides. Highly colored urine as when taking Pyridium (for painful urinary tract infections - turns urine purple) can cause a false reading as well as using a medication called Depakote. Urine can be inaccurate due to sitting in the bladder for an extended period or remaining in the ambient air for a long time. Urine concentration can cause inaccurate results. Menstrual blood in the sample will cause inaccuracy. Excess ascorbic acid or Vitamin C can cause a false positive result. Urine test strip reagents lose potency when exposed to air; bottles of strips open for 90 days can cause inaccurate results. Blood strips are individually wrapped in tin foil packaging.
Convenience - Getting a urine sample on demand (DKA causes dehydration) or in the middle of the night is much harder than pricking a finger especially when dealing with a small child; a sleeping child may not need to be disturbed. A bathroom may not even be available if out and about. Blood testing with a meter allows for increased compliance for ketone testing."

The article assumes that the reader is testing for ketoacidosis, but acknowledges "There are dietary ketones which are formed on a low- or no-carbohydrate diet with a high fat/protein intake; when blood sugars are controlled these ketones are not dangerous."

I hope this is of interest to someone here. Good luck to all the NK folks here; I'll try to catch up on the thread eventually.
This was VERY interesting especially for those of us taking Vitamin C thanks for posting and hi
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:10 AM   #875
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Thanks, mom2zeke. Not really too worried about my glucose levels, but interested in seeing how different foods affect it regardless.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:20 AM   #876
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So I have wondered aloud (or in type i guess) on these threads about my slight apprehension regarding CO. Polished off three jars in 5 weeks... I like what its doing for my appetite and I think its helping with the ketones [Meter please come already].

However, I'm kinda worried about what this might do to my lipids. They are fine now and I don't want to screw them up. I reviewed my results from over the years and it clear that the years I was LCing strong my HDL is higher but over all my results were always good. btw I have been using canola oil for about 18 yrs.

Some of you answered me with great blood results after using CO- thanks for that. [It may have been on the other thread-sometimes I wonder if combining the threads might not be a bad idea so we can have a larger "think tank" trying to get this NK streamlined]

Anyway, last night I was reading JM's 6 mos lipid results and the COMMENTS below. And I was again left feeling a little uneasy about all this CO consumption. Especially considering we know what a huge impact eating can have on the body in a short amount of time (supersize me..).

Has anyone else read that stuff? What do you guys all think about it? Reassurance welcome! I really want to continue doing this but I want to be careful- there have been some diets that turned out to be harmful in the end.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:26 AM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablis View Post
So I have wondered aloud (or in type i guess) on these threads about my slight apprehension regarding CO. Polished off three jars in 5 weeks... I like what its doing for my appetite and I think its helping with the ketones [Meter please come already].

However, I'm kinda worried about what this might do to my lipids. They are fine now and I don't want to screw them up. I reviewed my results from over the years and it clear that the years I was LCing strong my HDL is higher but over all my results were always good. btw I have been using canola oil for about 18 yrs.

Some of you answered me with great blood results after using CO- thanks for that. [It may have been on the other thread-sometimes I wonder if combining the threads might not be a bad idea so we can have a larger "think tank" trying to get this NK streamlined]

Anyway, last night I was reading JM's 6 mos lipid results and the COMMENTS below. And I was again left feeling a little uneasy about all this CO consumption. Especially considering we know what a huge impact eating can have on the body in a short amount of time (supersize me..).

Has anyone else read that stuff? What do you guys all think about it? Reassurance welcome! I really want to continue doing this but I want to be careful- there have been some diets that turned out to be harmful in the end.
Here is what I think about lipids. What is known at this point in time is hypothetical. The correlation between heart disease and lipids is slim with the exception of triglycerides. LDL and HDL are not predictive in any functional manner. So I personally, am only concerned with my tri's. The rest is not particularly important.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:30 AM   #878
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Here is what I think about lipids. What is known at this point in time is hypothetical. The correlation between heart disease and lipids is slim with the exception of triglycerides. LDL and HDL are not predictive in any functional manner. So I personally, am only concerned with my tri's. The rest is not particularly important.
I worry what my health INS might think about it though...
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:34 AM   #879
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Does anyone else ever feel like there is information overload on supplements?? I have the ones that I take, for varying reasons, and I've added and subtracted over the years based on recommendations, reading, tests, etc.. But I have had periods where I stopped altogether because I couldn't discern any difference and I couldn't figure out what recommendations to follow!
I have done exactly the same thing. I'm a few years older than you (54) and have taken varying supplements for different reasons and also added and subtracted due to varying revelations from studies.
I have also stopped completely - I stopped for a few months this year when I started eating LC and NK, then added several back in as I continued reading. I could not live without magnesium, I'm positive (leg cramps) and I take potassium now, too that I'd never taken before.




Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Here is what I think about lipids. What is known at this point in time is hypothetical. The correlation between heart disease and lipids is slim with the exception of triglycerides. LDL and HDL are not predictive in any functional manner. So I personally, am only concerned with my tri's. The rest is not particularly important.
So agree!
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:09 AM   #880
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I worry what my health INS might think about it though...
I understand. That is a complication that might have to be settled in a court of law but for you, now - not much help.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:14 AM   #881
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Thanks so much for sharing the image with us and all the rest. Wow, you really have a great attitude! Now I really see the importance of doing this. I guess you really don't know until you measure.

You mention that you may redo the test in 6 mos- I wonder, is there not a concern about radiation exposure?

btw its really great that you bone density is fine. So at least you know all the fitness paid off in that way. That's huge.
I didn't really give the radiation exposure much of a thought...I read somewhere that you are exposed to more radiation on a "coast to coast flight" than during a DEXA scan, so it sounded pretty safe to me. I've never flown anywhere at all, so maybe my lifetime radiation exposure is very low!
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:19 AM   #882
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Lindsay, back about 15 years ago, I was an over-trained person. Had injuries and stalled on weight losss. It's a "high" we get addicted to....Kristn had great advice, that's what I did, backed off all but resistance, added more walking.
I've heard so many people say this by now, maybe I should start taking it really seriously! I was just getting ready to do my scheduled workout for today and realized that every muscle I have is already incredibly sore. Probably a good sign to take an unscheduled rest day. It's just so hard to get past the idea that it's a "wasted" day when I skip a workout.

Oh well, I'll just eat my bacon and eggs and try to forget about it!
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:32 AM   #883
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MCT Oil is fractionated from Coconut Oil and is a medium chain fatty acid not a long chain fatty acid like Coconut Oil. MCT oil does not require pancreatic lipase to be digested/metabolized.

I find that it raises my ketone levels and is VERY effective in reducing my appetite and has a neutral flavor (unlike coconut oil)

Here is a blog post (from a non-comercial health blogger) who details some of the benefits of MCT oil:
Animal Pharm: Body Fat Loss: Saturated Fat Kicks the Cr*pola Out Of Olive Oil

Oh and I just bought Nature's Way Liquid Coconut Oil - (from NETRITION.COM of course) which is labeled as "93% MCTs" It only has a slight coconut flavor...

Peace

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Thanks Joe. Ok, if I am understanding what I just went and read, CO is not 100% MCT, where the MCT oil is 100%. My next question is, can I replace the CO I am drinking in my coffee each AM with the MCT oil, does it have a taste of it's own? I would be cutting back a little on the saturated fat I am getting daily.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:38 AM   #884
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Body Beast--well one thing we can say for sure, the name totally rocks! Are you sure you don't want to change your user name to that???

....

Also, IMHO (and again, I am no expert) trying to do a mass gain on a very low calorie diet is really not a good idea (I don't remember what your calories are looking like, I just know that some people on here are pretty low calorie, so I thought I would mention it )
Ha ha ha - I just have to look past the name and the marketing style of the Body Beast workout system...it's so corny and over-the-top! I have no desire to become a "beast" - and I'm not even sure I am terribly interested in gaining much lean muscle mass at all, now that I've had that DEXA scan. I have about 88 pounds of lean muscle, which sounds pretty good for my height (5' 3"). I really just want to lose a great deal of the 50-something pounds of fat I'm also carrying around! I'd like to go from my current 37.1% body fat to no more than 20% without losing much (if any) lean muscle.

About my calories, they haven't been very low on most days during the past month (I started NK on Nov. 1 - exactly 4 weeks ago). Looks like I'm averaging about 1900. I've had some oddball days where I only had 1400-1500, but more often than not I've had slightly over 2000. I may need to keep a closer eye on that and ensure that it stays under 2000. I'm pretty sure that my protein and carb intake is where it should be each day, so the daily calorie variance is primarily coming from fat. I just scrolled back through my food log and saw that only 3 days during the past month did my protein intake exceed 90g (just by a gram or two), and most days it goes no higher than 80g. A few days, it was only in the 50s or 60s. As for carbs, I decided to set my limit at 30g total and on most days I find that it ends up being less than 25g total.

Thanks for your input!

----
Lindsay
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:45 AM   #885
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Unstrungharp, that is very interesting. Just curious, if you do the calculations based on weight/height/etc measurements what do you come up with?

Unfortunately, I don't know for sure....I haven't had the courage to get out the tape measure in quite a while.

But I just looked up a calculator online that only required gender, age, height, weight, and waist measurement (I estimated based on what it was last time I checked), and it said 32%. I definitely like that better than 37.1%, but I'm sure the DEXA is much more accurate, since it takes into account hips and thighs....where I carry most of the fat.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:27 AM   #886
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Thanks Joe. Ok, if I am understanding what I just went and read, CO is not 100% MCT, where the MCT oil is 100%. My next question is, can I replace the CO I am drinking in my coffee each AM with the MCT oil, does it have a taste of it's own? I would be cutting back a little on the saturated fat I am getting daily.
Buffy.....I didn't like CO in my coffee and got a bottle of MCT oil. I'm on my 2nd bottle of the stuff and love it. It just makes it that much "creamier" like there is more HWC in it....no flavor addition at all (my opinion). I really like the stuff and am anxious to try making mayo with it and the other oils (1/3 each of macadamia, MCT and light olive).
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #887
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Shelley, did you get the MCT gold version? It is more expensive, and states, no added water.
Thank for your info, I think I will get a bottle for my coffee.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:12 AM   #888
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I've heard so many people say this by now, maybe I should start taking it really seriously! I was just getting ready to do my scheduled workout for today and realized that every muscle I have is already incredibly sore. Probably a good sign to take an unscheduled rest day. It's just so hard to get past the idea that it's a "wasted" day when I skip a workout.

Oh well, I'll just eat my bacon and eggs and try to forget about it!
I have a tendency to overtrain too- it really is a great high (until you end up with injuries here and there) but also I have done it out of desperation to try and overcome this weight problem. I always hope that if I follow a certain plan to the letter... maybe this time something will work! (Which is kind of what I'm doing now with NK) It is encouraging when you see your strength and endurance improve. But really I always felt that I was "running to stand to still" in that I didn't lose anything but only maintained. Now I am doing short bodyweight training 3-4 times and week and its hard for me not to do more. I actually miss running and HIITS...

Isn't funny how all us overweight ppl tend to work out far more and eat more carefully then our thin friends?
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:14 AM   #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablis View Post
I have a tendency to overtrain too- it really is a great high (until you end up with injuries here and there) but also I have done it out of desperation to try and overcome this weight problem. I always hope that if I follow a certain plan to the letter... maybe this time something will work! (Which is kind of what I'm doing now with NK) It is encouraging when you see your strength and endurance improve. But really I always felt that I was "running to stand to still" in that I didn't lose anything but only maintained. Now I am doing short bodyweight training 3-4 times and week and its hard for me not to do more. I actually miss running and HIITS...

Isn't funny how all us overweight ppl tend to work out far more and eat more carefully then our thin friends?
Like my DD's doctor said to her "You don't see women in Paris being gymrats, they just walk everywhere they go".
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:21 AM   #890
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Like my DD's doctor said to her "You don't see women in Paris being gymrats, they just walk everywhere they go".
I walk tons and I'm still fat maybe i should move to paris....
if nk doesn't work maybe i'll try that next
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:24 AM   #891
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I walk tons and I'm still fat maybe i should move to paris....
if nk doesn't work maybe i'll try that next
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:42 AM   #892
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I use the MCT gold and find it has no flavor of its own.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:45 AM   #893
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This is a huge question for me too! I think that you can maintain LBM, but to gain while losing? But Jimmy Moore gained LBM while losing on NK with a relatively low level of protein (80-90g/day and he's well over 6' tall).

Since NK is so new it's really hard to know what's possible.
Yes, Jimmy has made gained muscle on NK while also losing at a slow rate. But his primary goal when starting was not weight loss per se, and I don't think he is restricting calories. He is IFing though, and working out in a fasted state. The way to be sure about his calories would be to ask him. He always responds to emails.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:14 AM   #894
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I make the coconut oil/MCT mayonaise from Dr. Fife. Google MCT mayonaise and you will find it.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:34 AM   #895
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...I'm not even sure I am terribly interested in gaining much lean muscle mass at all, now that I've had that DEXA scan. I have about 88 pounds of lean muscle, which sounds pretty good for my height (5' 3"). I really just want to lose a great deal of the 50-something pounds of fat I'm also carrying around! I'd like to go from my current 37.1% body fat to no more than 20% without losing much (if any) lean muscle.
Oh, I'm so sorry. I guess I misunderstood your concern about the DEXA (or maybe I didn't read carefully enough). I thought that you wanted (needed) to gain mass to reduce the relative proportion of body fat. I guess now I understand why you've been doing metcons and those types of workouts, if your main goal is just to cut fat.

I'm a bit addicted to Robb Wolf's podcast so I've listened to him respond to a ton of questions from people wanting to cut fat. I can't really remember details (I listen partly out of habit, often while doing dishes or whatever) but I think he believes that cutting body fat is mostly about diet. I've heard others say that body composition is like 80% a result of diet. I've also heard (read) that metcon-type workouts, if they are too intense and frequent, can get in the way of cutting body fat because they can trigger cortisol release, which has the effect of converting muscle to glucose. If you are sort of addicted to intense workouts, I wonder if that could be part of the picture.

Of course Pavel would say that kettlebell swings are the key to cutting fat. Have you heard of Pavel??? There are a lot of Pavelites on the Dragon Door forum, in case you are interested in kettlebells.

BTW, I actually really do like the name Body Beast! I, like Kristn, am a big believer in heavy lifting. My goal recently in the gym has been to gain strength/mass (strength being the first priority) because being stronger makes my life easier. That's sort of why I'm carrying around an extra 15 or so pounds right now (and not caring much about it)--I've been concentrating on gaining strength/mass rather than losing fat. I'm definitely not saying it's not possible to do both (Jimmy Moore is) but many people concentrate on one or the other at a time.

By the way, Robb Wolf has an active forum with a lot of fitness enthusiasts. You will hear a lot about "post-workout carbs" but they still might have some advice that will be useful to you.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:00 PM   #896
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Hi, everyone.
This thread just grows and grows. I can barely keep up!

I feel like such a doofus because I started the week just fine, then fell off the wagon last night - a whole 4 days in! And I paid for it with a very restless night. The good news is that I bought a new battery for my tester, so perhaps I will test over the weekend - after eating clean for a few days.

Re: homemade mayo - I've made it twice - once by hand using a whisk, slowly adding the oil. the second time I made it by putting everything into my magic bullet. The whisked version was definitely much lighter, but they both tasted wonderful. I will be making more soon.

Thought I'd pass along a couple of things for the tech geeks out there.
First, for those who weigh daily - I use an app called "True Weight". You enter your weight each day, and it plots it on a graph which shows your actual weight and your moving average over the last month, 3 months, year, etc.

My favorite place to store recipes is on Pepperplate. It's a website and an iPad app, so very easily accessible. What's great about it is you have a button on your toolbar and you can quickly add a recipe to your files. If the recipe site doesn't allow it for some reason, you can simply do a copy/paste into the program. You can even share recipes with other Pepperplate friends.

Also, one of my favorite recipe blogs/apps is Nom Nom Paleo. BTW, her iPad app is the best recipe app I have ever seen! I've used several of her recipes - including for mayonnaise.
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Last edited by gibster; 11-29-2012 at 12:02 PM..
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:15 PM   #897
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Thanks Joe. Ok, if I am understanding what I just went and read, CO is not 100% MCT, where the MCT oil is 100%. My next question is, can I replace the CO I am drinking in my coffee each AM with the MCT oil, does it have a taste of it's own? I would be cutting back a little on the saturated fat I am getting daily.
Yes....you can replace the coconut oil with MCT oil and NO MCT oil has no discernible taste (to me at least)

I would recommend you start slowly and ramp up your intake...some people experience gastric distress with MCT oil.

I have used the Now MCT oil and the Smart Basic and a very expensive pharmaceutical-grade brand they all were easy on my stomach.

Peace

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:19 PM   #898
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I walk tons and I'm still fat maybe i should move to paris....
if nk doesn't work maybe i'll try that next
Field trip!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:20 PM   #899
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Shelley, did you get the MCT gold version? It is more expensive, and states, no added water.
Thank for your info, I think I will get a bottle for my coffee.
I got the only one that was in my local health food store as I wanted it "now"! It's by NOW foods.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:23 PM   #900
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Here is what I think about lipids. What is known at this point in time is hypothetical. The correlation between heart disease and lipids is slim with the exception of triglycerides. LDL and HDL are not predictive in any functional manner. So I personally, am only concerned with my tri's. The rest is not particularly important.
I agree. Total Cholestrol is not relevant. Trigs and HDL would be the only ones to pay close attention, if you are concerned. Reducing inflammation is the key; that is done by lowering carbs, and no sugar.
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