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Old 11-26-2012, 02:34 PM   #781
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Hi everyone,

I'm not doing very well (day 7 of starting NK, though I've been low carb with some fluctuations for several years). I'm feeling so, so exhausted and weak. As you may recall, I've been feeling exhausted for quite awhile (long before starting NK) and NK is kind of an attempt to get some energy on board so that I can do my life.

I've been feeling particularly weak and tired the past couple of days, but I can't tell if it's a form of low-carb flu, or if it's just more of whatever is wrong with me that the doctors can't figure out. I did Atkins induction a while back (in an attempt to shed some pounds that came on as a result of carb creep), and I felt pretty good (no low-carb flu).

I haven't been tracking (because I am so exhausted, I feel that's too much for me to handle right now) but I'm pretty sure that my carbs are somewhere between 30 and 50, and my protein is within the wide range that Kristn helped me calculate. I've been eating plenty of fat (without trying to restrict calories in any way) as my main goal is not weight loss (although I have 15-20 extra pounds to lose) and I'm not having any problems digesting the fat.

I have my ketone strips but I haven't started checking yet. I had wanted to wait until I was sure my body had adjusted to start checking.

I've been drinking lots of salty broth as recommended, and today I bought potassium pills and took two of them (50 mg each) and will continue to take one every day. Is there anything else that I should be supplementing with to offset low-carb flu, if that's what this is?

I really, really hesitate to give up on NK, because recently I tried to up my carbs (to something like the level that most people eat) to see if my years of low-carb was the root of my energy problem (and I bought a glucose meter as well, to check blood sugar) and that was a disaster. It was about a week into this "high carb" experiment (which included gluten) that my recent episode of numbness/tingling and extreme fatigue began. I know for sure that that the crash I experienced was not due to blood sugar--after one initial very high reading, my readings were pretty normal (based on the ranges given on bloodsugar101)--but still, I am afraid to up carbs (it's very hard for me to eat "moderate" carb, I tend to binge if I am not pretty low carb).

Do any of you have any ideas? Is it possible that I'm drinking too much salty broth? Should I attempt moderate carb again, and then try to reduce more gradually? Should I start ketone testing even though it's only day 7, to see where I am ketosis-wise?

Any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated!
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:50 PM   #782
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Are you getting enough protein? I am not from a LC background and when I feel out of wack amino supplementation until I get enough built up from protein usually does the trick. Since this has been going on a while and you have experimented diet wise, You may be lacking something. I use L-Tyrosine for energy. Julia Ross's book is where I started. Not sure I can name it here.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:50 PM   #783
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Anjikun Do you have an appointment to get your thyroid levels checked?
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:07 PM   #784
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So I kept dreaming last night that my ketone levels were too high- upwards of 6+ ....I finally gave up trying to sleep at 5:30 and they were at 1.9 (a bit lower than yesterday), luckily not too high...

Wow...craving salty fatty foods like crazy today!!! I could probably just empty a salt shaker in my mouth right now....hmmmm

Anjikun- I hope you feel better soon, other than supplementing w/salt- which it sounds like you are- I can't think of any other suggestions.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:32 PM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anjikun View Post
Hi everyone,

I'm not doing very well (day 7 of starting NK, though I've been low carb with some fluctuations for several years). I'm feeling so, so exhausted and weak. As you may recall, I've been feeling exhausted for quite awhile (long before starting NK) and NK is kind of an attempt to get some energy on board so that I can do my life.

I've been feeling particularly weak and tired the past couple of days, but I can't tell if it's a form of low-carb flu, or if it's just more of whatever is wrong with me that the doctors can't figure out. I did Atkins induction a while back (in an attempt to shed some pounds that came on as a result of carb creep), and I felt pretty good (no low-carb flu).

I haven't been tracking (because I am so exhausted, I feel that's too much for me to handle right now) but I'm pretty sure that my carbs are somewhere between 30 and 50, and my protein is within the wide range that Kristn helped me calculate. I've been eating plenty of fat (without trying to restrict calories in any way) as my main goal is not weight loss (although I have 15-20 extra pounds to lose) and I'm not having any problems digesting the fat.

I have my ketone strips but I haven't started checking yet. I had wanted to wait until I was sure my body had adjusted to start checking.

I've been drinking lots of salty broth as recommended, and today I bought potassium pills and took two of them (50 mg each) and will continue to take one every day. Is there anything else that I should be supplementing with to offset low-carb flu, if that's what this is?

I really, really hesitate to give up on NK, because recently I tried to up my carbs (to something like the level that most people eat) to see if my years of low-carb was the root of my energy problem (and I bought a glucose meter as well, to check blood sugar) and that was a disaster. It was about a week into this "high carb" experiment (which included gluten) that my recent episode of numbness/tingling and extreme fatigue began. I know for sure that that the crash I experienced was not due to blood sugar--after one initial very high reading, my readings were pretty normal (based on the ranges given on bloodsugar101)--but still, I am afraid to up carbs (it's very hard for me to eat "moderate" carb, I tend to binge if I am not pretty low carb).

Do any of you have any ideas? Is it possible that I'm drinking too much salty broth? Should I attempt moderate carb again, and then try to reduce more gradually? Should I start ketone testing even though it's only day 7, to see where I am ketosis-wise?

Any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated!
I'm so sorry that you're not feeling well. Magnesium is another supplement that you should be taking along with the salt and potassium.

Since you have the strips you could do one morning test to see where your ketones are--that will give you some more information.

Are your test results in from your doctor? Unless there's something more going on you may just be experiencing low-carb flu.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:34 PM   #786
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Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
Are you getting enough protein? I am not from a LC background and when I feel out of wack amino supplementation until I get enough built up from protein usually does the trick. Since this has been going on a while and you have experimented diet wise, You may be lacking something. I use L-Tyrosine for energy. Julia Ross's book is where I started. Not sure I can name it here.
Hi Cici, thanks for the response. I think I am getting enough protein--three servings of good protein idea should put me in range, I think, right? I have tried L-Tyrosine (based on Julia Ross's book, the Diet Cure--she also wrote the Mood Cure) and it didn't do much. Maybe I should try that again--thanks for the idea!

By the way, I am originally from Michigan (Lansing). I have been living in Quebec for twenty+ years. I still have a sister who lives in Eaton Rapids (small town south of Lansing). Where are you in Michigan?
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:35 PM   #787
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Originally Posted by sasonnier View Post
So I kept dreaming last night that my ketone levels were too high- upwards of 6+ ....I finally gave up trying to sleep at 5:30 and they were at 1.9 (a bit lower than yesterday), luckily not too high...
What a crazy dream. It sounds like you're really doing well with the ketones!
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:38 PM   #788
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Anjikun Do you have an appointment to get your thyroid levels checked?
Hi Judy,

Thanks for you idea about thyroid. My doctor ordered tests about a week ago, and I'm waiting for the results. I don't know if she did free T3 and T4 though. I have a follow-up appointment two weeks from now and I plan to ask for those two tests if they weren't done. I'm even thinking of asking her if I can try thyroid hormone regardless of what the tests say. Low thyroid would explain all my symptoms (and it would be so much better than MS, or some other auto-immune issue!). So yeah, I'm pretty much rooting for a thyroid problem at this point!
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:41 PM   #789
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
I'm so sorry that you're not feeling well. Magnesium is another supplement that you should be taking along with the salt and potassium.

Since you have the strips you could do one morning test to see where your ketones are--that will give you some more information.

Are your test results in from your doctor? Unless there's something more going on you may just be experiencing low-carb flu.
Thanks for your response Kristn. Yes, I am also taking magnesium as part of my regular supplements. I think I will take your advice and start ketone testing tomorrow to get some additional info!
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:43 PM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anjikun View Post
So yeah, I'm pretty much rooting for a thyroid problem at this point!
I cried when my doctor gave me the hypothyroid diagnosis, and it wasn't from sadness! I was so happy that I finally had a diagnosis for what was going on with me and that there was hope that I would feel better eventually. It did take me a year, but at least I had a goal to focus on rather than being dismissed and told that there was nothing wrong with me (even though I knew that there was).
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:25 PM   #791
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Broth?

Hi all - Day2 is in the books!
Day1:
Cals - 2143
Fat (g) - 175.6
Carbs (g) - 40.9
Prot (g) - 119.4

Day2:
Cals - 1941
Fat (g) - 174.3
Carbs (g) - 29.6
Prot (g) - 84.7
Day2 was much easier - maybe it's because there is structure at work as opposed to being around the fridge all day on the weekend! Ketones were still too low this morning ... but it is only Day2 .

Kristin - I noticed you eat broth for lunch - is it homemade? If so, how do you log it? I make an amazing homemade beef broth with marrow bones - the marrow adds super-delicious fat with a luxurious mouth-feel, but I'm having difficulty finding any type of nutritional content/numbers on homemade broth.

Also - hallelujah for fat bombs! Sooooo delish!
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:45 PM   #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anjikun View Post
I've been feeling particularly weak and tired the past couple of days, but I can't tell if it's a form of low-carb flu
I was surprised to experience the "low carb flu" again because I'd been low-carbing for 6 months when I started NK, but apparently it does happen. One tip I learned from Dr. Eades is to eat a lot of coconut oil to ward off low-carb flu - say, 2-3 TB over the course of the day - because it gives your body a quick energy boost. It worked for me, and I definitely get energetic and happy when I eat my CO now. I've read that CO helps with low-thyroid as well, so that might be an additional benefit.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:48 PM   #793
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I started off my day with pumpkin muffins, and for some reason I just never wanted to stop eating. I didn't go off the reservation, but I'm on the high side, calorie and protein-wise. I've been drinking bulletproof coffee for breakfast the last couple of weeks, and it seems my system just likes that better instead of food. Is it possible to eat too many nuts (or cheese, for that matter) on NK? I know Dr. Atkins cautions against having more than 4 oz. of cheese or cream in a day, but I don't know if those precautions apply to NK.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:29 AM   #794
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Hi Marykate. I did not know that about co and thyroid. The stuff is so great!! I have acquired a taste for it in my morning coffee. Use to think it was way too oily but now, I love it. As a bonus, it moisturizes my lips now that the cold weather has arrived!!

From my experience, nuts are problematic in their natural form and when made into things from nut flours. The reason being that I have portion control issues and the carbs add up fast. The only exception is macadamias. I couldn't tell you why - I love them but never eat more than 10 or 11 at one time.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:44 AM   #795
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Good Morning to all!
Anjikun, hope you will get the answers you need soon with labs. Feeling miserable doesn't help anything. I am not-so-patiently waiting on BHRT to be finished so I can get started with feeling like old self again. IMHO post-meno state is the source of my countless issues right now--and wondering what women ever did to deserve this misery!
Hi Kristn, hope you have had some sun in the past days. How are you feeling since increasing Vit D3?
Meow, looking like you are doing well and sound like you feel good too!
Sophie, dreaming of ketones?? That's funny!
Hi Judy!
Cici, your avi is so pretty. I use Lty too. and two other Ls too! They really help with the energy.
Hi MerryKate...I also went back through LC flu when I started this, and I do not eat glutens, sugar....so I think the transition to high fat makes our bodies stop and adjust...again. Pumpkin muffins sound like a great way to go off if you are going to do it. I cannot touch anything like that in the morning, or it sets me off the rest of the day. Too many nuts?? I try to limit to 2oz at most....because they cannot be controlled at times!
Hi Cathy! I love CO on lips too! Mac Nuts I count out to 12 and enjoy eat one, must be the magic number for me, as I get really full about nut 10, 11....
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:57 AM   #796
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Hi all, how is everybody?

As recommended, I started testing ketones this morning and my reading was only .1 (today is day8 of NK). So that is pretty dismal, but at least now I still have some hope that getting into ketosis could boost my energy levels.

I walked to the grocery store near my house after walking my boys to school, and I literally felt like a zombie in there--my energy is so incredibly low. I'm taking two art classes which I haven't been able to attend for a couple of weeks because I am feeling so bad. I had thought last night that I would just drag myself to the class this morning come hell or high water, but there was just no way. I had really hoped that starting the potassium yesterday would help, but it didn't. I felt like making myself something to eat after getting home, but I literally could not keep standing up (I am on the couch with my laptop--lucky I have a laptop!)

So I decided to track protein and carbs today (not with ******, just on a piece of paper). I won't be trying to push the carbs super low today, I just want to get a good idea of the amounts that I have been eating. Once I know, then I will start trying to push them down gradually. Then once I'm at a significantly lower level for about a week, I will test ketones again.

Kristn, glad to know that you were wishing for a hypothyroid diagnosis too (makes me feel less crazy). Honestly, at this point I am really starting to fear something much worse, so if/when my doctor says my thyroid is low, I will want to hug her and then go throw a party!

Mary
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:59 AM   #797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
I cried when my doctor gave me the hypothyroid diagnosis, and it wasn't from sadness! I was so happy that I finally had a diagnosis for what was going on with me and that there was hope that I would feel better eventually. It did take me a year, but at least I had a goal to focus on rather than being dismissed and told that there was nothing wrong with me (even though I knew that there was).
Totally relate....
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:01 AM   #798
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[QUOTE=SouthernGirl61;16101692]Good Morning to all!
Anjikun, hope you will get the answers you need soon with labs. Feeling miserable doesn't help anything. I am not-so-patiently waiting on BHRT to be finished so I can get started with feeling like old self again. IMHO post-meno state is the source of my countless issues right now--and wondering what women ever did to deserve this misery!
QUOTE]

Hi SouthernGirl!

Is extreme fatigue one of the symptoms you are experiencing due to menopause? I am 47, but my periods have been irregular for quite a while. Do you think I should ask the doctor to test my estrogen levels?
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:33 AM   #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meow8022 View Post
Hi all - Day2 is in the books!
Day1:
Cals - 2143
Fat (g) - 175.6
Carbs (g) - 40.9
Prot (g) - 119.4

Day2:
Cals - 1941
Fat (g) - 174.3
Carbs (g) - 29.6
Prot (g) - 84.7
Day2 was much easier - maybe it's because there is structure at work as opposed to being around the fridge all day on the weekend! Ketones were still too low this morning ... but it is only Day2 .

Kristin - I noticed you eat broth for lunch - is it homemade? If so, how do you log it? I make an amazing homemade beef broth with marrow bones - the marrow adds super-delicious fat with a luxurious mouth-feel, but I'm having difficulty finding any type of nutritional content/numbers on homemade broth.
Sometimes my broth is homemade, but more often it's the free-range organic type from the store. I just log the breakdown from the box. If it's homemade I don't sweat it too much. Perhaps just log broth and a TBS or two of marrow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryKate View Post
I started off my day with pumpkin muffins, and for some reason I just never wanted to stop eating. I didn't go off the reservation, but I'm on the high side, calorie and protein-wise. I've been drinking bulletproof coffee for breakfast the last couple of weeks, and it seems my system just likes that better instead of food. Is it possible to eat too many nuts (or cheese, for that matter) on NK? I know Dr. Atkins cautions against having more than 4 oz. of cheese or cream in a day, but I don't know if those precautions apply to NK.
I hate these "hungry" days. I don't think there's a limit to cheese, cream, or nuts as long as you're tracking them. Like some others, I need to stay away from nuts most of the time because I have a portion control problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
From my experience, nuts are problematic in their natural form and when made into things from nut flours. The reason being that I have portion control issues and the carbs add up fast. The only exception is macadamias. I couldn't tell you why - I love them but never eat more than 10 or 11 at one time.
Sadly I still have a portion control problem with macadamias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61 View Post
Hi Kristn, hope you have had some sun in the past days. How are you feeling since increasing Vit D3?
I've been trying to get out in the sun, but working in an office makes it difficult. I have noticed that I've been feeling a bit better since upping the vitamin D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anjikun View Post
Hi all, how is everybody?

As recommended, I started testing ketones this morning and my reading was only .1 (today is day8 of NK). So that is pretty dismal, but at least now I still have some hope that getting into ketosis could boost my energy levels.

I walked to the grocery store near my house after walking my boys to school, and I literally felt like a zombie in there--my energy is so incredibly low. I'm taking two art classes which I haven't been able to attend for a couple of weeks because I am feeling so bad. I had thought last night that I would just drag myself to the class this morning come hell or high water, but there was just no way. I had really hoped that starting the potassium yesterday would help, but it didn't. I felt like making myself something to eat after getting home, but I literally could not keep standing up (I am on the couch with my laptop--lucky I have a laptop!)

So I decided to track protein and carbs today (not with ******, just on a piece of paper). I won't be trying to push the carbs super low today, I just want to get a good idea of the amounts that I have been eating. Once I know, then I will start trying to push them down gradually. Then once I'm at a significantly lower level for about a week, I will test ketones again.
I think this is a great plan!! I hate tracking, but it really does give you some good information about what you're eating and can guide you to make changes that will help you get into ketosis.

Quote:
Kristn, glad to know that you were wishing for a hypothyroid diagnosis too (makes me feel less crazy). Honestly, at this point I am really starting to fear something much worse, so if/when my doctor says my thyroid is low, I will want to hug her and then go throw a party!

Mary
When will you have your results?
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February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?
Nutritional Ketosis Thread Information and Posts of Interest
My Maintenance Journal
Original weight 2001--257 Maintaining 165-175 from 2002-March 2012
March 2012 to August 2012--175/150 Made Goal 8/27/12!
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:40 AM   #800
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Good morning everyone!
Today marks 3 months since I hit goal and started my NK Maintenance experiment. On the scale this morning I was 151.2, ketones were 1.1.

I saw my highest weight since I've been in NK (153.4) the day after Thanksgiving--I didn't go off plan but I ate more than I would have normally and that darned sugar glaze on the ham didn't help. Luckily my weight started going down the next day and I'm within my comfortable range right now.

I'm a bit nervous about getting my BF% number this Saturday, but I'm trying to look at it like I look at the scale. Just another piece of information to help me tweak what I'm doing to reach my goals.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:07 AM   #801
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Hi Kristn,

So glad your weight is cooperating! Try not to worry too much about your BF test--as you say, the more information you have the better.

I have a follow-up appointment with my doctor in two weeks to get my results. They might come in before that, so if there is something obvious off she may call me sooner.

I'm honestly hoping that they find something, no matter what it is. It's better to be feeling awful and know what is wrong than to be feeling awful and not know what is wrong.

Luckily my doctor is not dismissive, unlike many others. I have the impression that, in her own mind, she wonders if it's not all in my head (stress, because of my life situation), but I think she recognizes that there is no way for her to know that, so she does the tests that are indicated.

I have finally recuperated enough energy to make a new batch of fat bombs. This time I am going to try to figure out how many carbs in each one!
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:56 AM   #802
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Morning everyone.
Took me a while to catch up with all the posts.
So many of us suffer with thyroid issues and menopause, perhaps those problems make us search out a WOE that helps us lose weight and might also help us feel better in those other area.
NK is finally enabling me to slowly lose weight, and it is slowly, but I am also not super diligent about logging now, although for 2 months I was and learned a lot from it. I have also learned that I can lose just as well on higher calories than I thought I would be able to lose on. That was such a relief and freely allows me to keep my percentage of fat really high.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:07 AM   #803
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Morning everyone.
Took me a while to catch up with all the posts.
So many of us suffer with thyroid issues and menopause, perhaps those problems make us search out a WOE that helps us lose weight and might also help us feel better in those other area.
NK is finally enabling me to slowly lose weight, and it is slowly, but I am also not super diligent about logging now, although for 2 months I was and learned a lot from it. I have also learned that I can lose just as well on higher calories than I thought I would be able to lose on. That was such a relief and freely allows me to keep my percentage of fat really high.
so happy that things are moving for you buffy!
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:15 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by tablis View Post
so happy that things are moving for you buffy!
oz by oz, inch by inch, but I am doing it in a very relaxed, easy manner. I could probably cinch everything up and be super duper diligent, but I want to just have this truly be a way of living. This is the first time I have been below the 200's for years and it feels so good to be in the 100's again and see any little movement downward on the scale, while totally satisfied with food. Sometimes I even miss my obsession with food, getting it, making it, binging on it, planning my next meal or place to go eat. You would think it would free up a lot of my time, which it has, but I have replaced it with my obsession of being on this site way too much.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:21 AM   #805
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
You would think it would free up a lot of my time, which it has, but I have replaced it with my obsession of being on this site way too much.
LOL seems to be a side effect of NK
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:32 AM   #806
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Originally Posted by tablis View Post
LOL seems to be a side effect of NK
Exactly Tablis, if only it would burn more fat while we are on here
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:33 AM   #807
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Morning everyone.
Took me a while to catch up with all the posts.
So many of us suffer with thyroid issues and menopause, perhaps those problems make us search out a WOE that helps us lose weight and might also help us feel better in those other area.
NK is finally enabling me to slowly lose weight, and it is slowly, but I am also not super diligent about logging now, although for 2 months I was and learned a lot from it. I have also learned that I can lose just as well on higher calories than I thought I would be able to lose on. That was such a relief and freely allows me to keep my percentage of fat really high.
I'm glad to hear that this is working so well for you Buffy!! I agree that taking a long-view is ultimately more successful than short-term.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:37 AM   #808
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Thanks Kristn. I think if you just have a few lbs to lose, then it is usually worthwhile to try to really kick it into high gear, but when you are looking at 30 lbs or more, it is going to be a long journey and you are more likely to burn out if you approach it too diligently, or that is JMHO. And, at my age, it is more about health and comfort than vanity sizing. When I got so heavy I was not comfortable in my clothes, sitting or standing, I hurt so much more. Just by losing slowly, I have helped so many of those problems. Nothing I put on feels too tight or binds. I can cross my legs easily, I can bend over to tie my shoes, I just feel so much better about myself and how I look and feel. Win/win/win
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:15 AM   #809
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I started a new thread for people to post their success (or lack of it): NK Success?

It's hard to track whether or not this is actually working for people that it would be great to gather the stories in one place. I have a heck of a time going back on these long meandering threads to find anything.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:21 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by Anjikun View Post

Do any of you have any ideas? Is it possible that I'm drinking too much salty broth? Should I attempt moderate carb again, and then try to reduce more gradually? Should I start ketone testing even though it's only day 7, to see where I am ketosis-wise?

Any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated!
I think someone mentioned eating/drinking coconut oil. In addition to that - I would highly recommend adding a couple teaspoons of MCT oil (slowly ramp up intake).

When you start NK and are restricting carbs it takes some time before your body can up regulate the production - during this time you just feel miserable (or at least I did) Once I started fasting and supplementing with MCT oil and Coconut oil I was 100% better.

Now if I can just keep away from the Blue Diamond Almonds - I will be all set...

Peace

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