November Nutritional Ketosis Thread!

[tablis]

Originally Posted by NKSL55

I know everyone will tell you this: don't focus much on any one weighing. The way I have tracked my weight since college is to record the day to day weight but also calculate a 7 day average weight. So, each day I put a new weight in the book and calculate what my average weight for the past 7 days has been. Then I graph the averages. If they are trending down -- great. It will just be a matter of time. I think of these as a "moving window average" -- with the window in this case being 7 days wide.

I have seen someone go up to 30 day windows. The idea is that way you are not fixating on minor changes that might mean nothing other than you drank a little more water prior to weighing yourself one day than another. Instead you are focused on the big picture.

If you like computers, you can do this in a spreadsheet program like google docs or open office. But if you don't, a paper notebook with graph paper pages works fine too.

Hang in there!

--
Phillip

OMG I love how you graph and calculate everything! I'm a total spreadsheet person too!

[tablis]

Originally Posted by JoeEO

My deep thought of the week which is as follows:

'Very true....my ketone level and satiety didn't take off until I started skipping breakfast. It makes sense as ingesting proteins and carbs increases blood glucose and inhibits the production of ketones.

Its all so confusing to get this figured out. I thought that most info says to eat as soon as possilbe when you get up and at least 20 gms of protein?
I'd prefer to skip breakfast but for the past 2 mos I've been forcing myself to go eat right when I get up.

[tablis]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Wow, I have found most doctors today will say to cut out all the white stuff, but I suppose he would tell you to supplement with whole grains.

yes, white stuff for sure- but low carb seems to get a bad reaction. "oh that Atkins stuff its terrible for your body, just eat less and WO more- its that simple" I can't tell you how many variations of that I have heard from doctors.

I just know - as does everyone here -that when I followed typical low fat high carb recommendations religiously it was a disaster.

[tablis]

I have been weighing myself every day since I joined you guys in NK. Or at least hopefully joined you guys bc I don't have my meter yet and I'm not certain. Before this
I was eating atkins style and have no clue how much protein or fat I was eating.

Today is the begining of the the third week. I have been meticuloulsy tracking my food, and keeping everything in the correct gms and percents. I have limited my WO's -which is hard bc I tend to love overtraining...

Anyways, final result is 2.1 kg. which is where I was 5 days in and then I proceeded to bounce for the rest of the duration. So I'm not really sure if this is "off" or just another fluctuation.

Anyways, I hope it IS off and I will continue with this eating pattern for another 2 weeks I think before I try to tweak it. Unless anyone thinks I should change something.

Thanks for being there everyone!

[JoeEO]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Question for you both: And you get in all the calories/protein you need for the day? Thanks.

I think so....My basic template is that I eat 2.5 meals each day.
Two meal that consist of a serving of protein (18-36 grams), a 1/2 cup serving of veggies, and a couple tablespoons of olive oil - my .5 meal is
2 oz of cheese and some butter.

I just plugged in what I am planning to eat today and I get the following macros:

Cals
1776
Fat
165 g
Carbs
12 g
Fiber
5 g
Protein
80 g

The macros percentage work out to be 80/17/3 - which is somewhat atypical - a little heavy on the fat as I am typically around 75% fat. So am I losing weight rapidly? No I am not. I think that I am slowing losing inches which is the really the goal...As far as physical activity, I am lifting heavy weights 3X per week - and I walk about 10K steps every day

Peace,

Joe E O

[clackley]

Joe, I love your thoughts! If I may point out that protein shakes are problematic for a lot of folks in that they seem to increase hunger. My bet is that it is too much highly digestible protein at one time.

I agree that eating often (snacks etc.) stall the body from accessing stored body fat. I have learned through intermittent fasting that hunger is not to be feared as it was in the days of eating a standard diet. Not only that, it is the #1/absolute best appetizer there is!!

SouthernGirl61

Cathy, do you have a recipe for your avi? That looks delish!

I change my avi pretty regularly these days but I think it was the stir fry on that day...no? In case I am right, here is the recipe ...

Ground Beef and Shirataki Stirfry
(4 servings)

Marukan - Rice Vinegar - Sodium Sugar Free, 2 Tbsp (15 ml)
Oil - Sesame, 1 tablespoon
Garlic, 2 Cloves (I.E. 6 g) - Raw, 2 tsp (6g)
Fresh - Ginger, 1 teaspoon
Red Chilli Pepper - Crushed Red Chili Pepper Flakes, 1 tsp.
Miricle Noodle - Shirataki No Carb No Gluten Soy Free, 7 oz
Kikkoman - Naturally Brewed Soy Sauce, 3 tbsp (15 ml)
Veg - Green Onion, 1/2 cup chopped
Presidents Choice (Canada) - Stir-Fry Vegetables, 1 container (343 grams (1 cup) ea.)
USDA extra lean ground pork - extra lean ground pork, 450 g

Brown meat along with the ginger, garlic and 1/2 the green onions. Add the prepared noodles and the rest of the ingredients and cook covered for 2 minutes then continue cooking until desired 'doneness'.
Total: CAL 1290 CARB 28 FIBRE 12 FAT 86 PROTEIN 97
Per Serving: CAL 323 CARB 7 FIBRE 3 FAT22 PROTEIN 24

[omatic]

I went to Wisconsin over the weekend for a wedding and fell off the wagon! I have eaten my ration of cheese to last into next year. Not to mention the grains, sugar and alcohol. I am not even going to measure my BK because it is surely blown! Nor am I going to step on the scale.

Now the interesting thing was that there was no adverse reaction to my venture into SADland.

Back on the wagon today

[omatic]

Originally Posted by clackley

If I may point out that protein shakes are problematic for a lot of folks in that they seem to increase hunger. My bet is that it is too much highly digestible protein at one time.

I had a huge hunger increase from protein shakes! Instead I added "unprocessed" protein, raw eggs and egg yolks into my shakes. No hunger increase there.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by tablis

I use sea salt in everything and I love salt so I think I'm ok in the salt area- my dr would say cut it down- what kind of broth do you put it in?

I use either homemade broth or Pacific Foods organic, free range chicken broth when I run out of homemade. I also salt my food generously but it's not enough while eating LC. And doctors seem to always think that salt is bad for you, but why? If you have low blood pressure then what exactly do they think is going to happen? Only a small percentage of people shouldn't eat too much salt because it raises their blood pressure. Somehow I doubt that's you.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by tablis

Its all so confusing to get this figured out. I thought that most info says to eat as soon as possilbe when you get up and at least 20 gms of protein?
I'd prefer to skip breakfast but for the past 2 mos I've been forcing myself to go eat right when I get up.

This is why it's important to figure out what works for you instead of a one-size-fits-all prescription. Some people do really well skipping meals and IFing. If I skip breakfast or just drink coffee my cortisol shoots through the roof and I feel terrible. I also end up eating much more the rest of the day.

OTOH, I tried the leptin reset with 50g of protein at breakfast and that didn't work either. Now I stick with a breakfast that I know works for me (moderate protein and fat) and I am in the groove.

In The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance Phinney and Volek talk about personalized nutrition. Using the meter and other methods of measuring what's going on with you to figure out a plan that works with your individual physiology.

[risajs]

Good morning all. I'm looking forward to catching up on my reading here!! Looks like we may have a couple new folks on board. Welcome!

Well, after almost 3 weeks out of NK with a.m. readings of LO, I hit this morning with 1.0! YAY!!!

I cut back on dairy and perhaps the MCT oil finally kicked in. Who the heck knows. I just hope I am not jinxing it by mentioning it here. We'll see. For today I'll be happy.

I hope everyone else is doing well.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by tablis

Its all so confusing to get this figured out. I thought that most info says to eat as soon as possilbe when you get up and at least 20 gms of protein?
I'd prefer to skip breakfast but for the past 2 mos I've been forcing myself to go eat right when I get up.

"Most info" is not written by people who understand Nutritional Ketosis. It's a whole different thing.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by omatic

I went to Wisconsin over the weekend for a wedding and fell off the wagon! I have eaten my ration of cheese to last into next year. Not to mention the grains, sugar and alcohol. I am not even going to measure my BK because it is surely blown! Nor am I going to step on the scale.

Now the interesting thing was that there was no adverse reaction to my venture into SADland.

Back on the wagon today

Welcome back on the wagon omatic!

[mom2zeke]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering if people might want to check-in and share how this WOE is going for them. There are so many people on the thread (and lurkers) that it's hard to keep track of how everyone is doing and what they've learned so far about how to make NK work for them.

If you have a chance could you share how/where you started, your NK strategies, whether you are testing and how that's going, data points (weight, ketones, BG, BF%, etc.). Please add anything else that you think might be useful!

Even if you only lurk, it would be great to hear how you're doing.

[E.W.]

Yesterday JoeEo said something about doing better after skiping breakfast. I do also and
happened upon an article that may explain that. It seems your insulin resistance varries throught the day changing a whole lot. If you take a skinny verry healthy person they handel carbs MUCH better first thing in the morning but later in the day they become a
little insulin resistant and by supper time show a lot more insulin resistance. But take a
type 2 diabetic they are much more insulin resistant in the morning and by supper handel
carbs a lot better, not good but better.

Well tomorow I have an apointment with my diabetic Dr. so I have to eat breakfast. Then
he will make the profound statement '"you have gained 4 lbs" gee as if I need a Dr. to tell me that! Well by this time tomorow I should be back in ketosis.

I had a thought that cheese cake factory cheese cake in our receipie section would almost make a balenced meal for us! We could call it the Cheese Cake Diet.

[risajs]

Great idea Kristn

I'm Risa. I've been low carb/Paleo since I read GCBC by Taubes several years back. After reading the anti-cancer benefits of a NK WOE, I began that. I've been conducting an N=1 for about 3 months. I've been in full ketosis about 1.5 months of that. I am 47 and have been over weight much of my life. I followed a strict low-fat diet for about 20 years and I think it really messed me up.

Right now I am working toward keeping an 80/15/5 ratio. Often my fat drifts a bit higher and protein a bit lower. Since incorporating MCT and CO fat bombs, and dropping much lower on dairy, I've had better results.

My weight hovers around 160 and I'd ideally like it to be between 145-150. My %bf is around 30 and I'd like it to be around 23-25. I exercise sporadically.

I weigh every day and track ketones in a fasted state every am. I don't track BG. I need to get an appt to get my blood tested for all the usual markers. I haven't done so in a long time.

[tablis]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I use either homemade broth or Pacific Foods organic, free range chicken broth when I run out of homemade. I also salt my food generously but it's not enough while eating LC. And doctors seem to always think that salt is bad for you, but why? If you have low blood pressure then what exactly do they think is going to happen? Only a small percentage of people shouldn't eat too much salt because it raises their blood pressure. Somehow I doubt that's you.

so how much should I be getting?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by tablis

so how much should I be getting?

Start by adding an extra 1/2 tsp a day and see how you feel. Adjust from there until you don't feel dizzy any more.

[tablis]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

This is why it's important to figure out what works for you instead of a one-size-fits-all prescription. Some people do really well skipping meals and IFing. If I skip breakfast or just drink coffee my cortisol shoots through the roof and I feel terrible. I also end up eating much more the rest of the day
OTOH, I tried the leptin reset with 50g of protein at breakfast and that didn't work either. Now I stick with a breakfast that I know works for me (moderate protein and fat) and I am in the groove.

In The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance Phinney and Volek talk about personalized nutrition. Using the meter and other methods of measuring what's going on with you to figure out a plan that works with your individual physiology.

Thanks. I did the leptin reset for six weeks and didn't lose anything either.
btw you mentioned your cortisol shooting the thru the roof- is there a way to measure that? During my wandering around the net trying to find a solution...
until I landed here... I read alot about adrenal fatigue and wonder if that may be part of the answer for me- but the solution seemed more complex and expensive than NK so I'm trying this for awhile first. I believe cortisol was mentioned in regards to AF as well.

So what do you have for breakfast? I've been doing 2 eggs fried with 3TBS canola oil. Haven't gotten used to cooking with CO yet but I am downing my fat bombs and am actually starting to like them.

I have to get that book!

[tablis]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

"Most info" is not written by people who understand Nutritional Ketosis. It's a whole different thing.

fair enough
I thought I read it from an NK source- one of jimmy moores podcast transcriptions perhaps?? not sure- I'm starting to have information overload

[Buffy45]

Morning!
Lots of good posts since I last checked in.
I started back on LC Sept. 3rd and have been testing ketones since about 2 weeks after that, almost consistently staying in ketosis, think I just dropped too low once. I am losing slowly but the trend is downward. I have now lost just a tiny bit over 15 lbs but people are telling me I look like I have lost more. Have lost all the puffiness that high carb can give you.
I had Reddarin help me figure out my ratios of how much protein/fat/calories to eat and have been falling right in the range of about 1500 calories, and 80/15/5. This last week, to experiment, I raised my calories and still had a loss this week. So, I am still in the learning and experimenting stage but love the fact that this is working for me and I feel good on it. Plus, it is EXCELLENT for my diabetes. My BS numbers are wonderful.

[tablis]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Morning!
Lots of good posts since I last checked in.
I started back on LC Sept. 3rd and have been testing ketones since about 2 weeks after that, almost consistently staying in ketosis, think I just dropped too low once. I am losing slowly but the trend is downward. I have now lost just a tiny bit over 15 lbs but people are telling me I look like I have lost more. Have lost all the puffiness that high carb can give you.
I had Reddarin help me figure out my ratios of how much protein/fat/calories to eat and have been falling right in the range of about 1500 calories, and 80/15/5. This last week, to experiment, I raised my calories and still had a loss this week. So, I am still in the learning and experimenting stage but love the fact that this is working for me and I feel good on it. Plus, it is EXCELLENT for my diabetes. My BS numbers are wonderful.

Wow thats wonderful to hear to hear buffy! So happy for you.

[JMCM1]

That is so neat, Buffy!!!! 15 pounds lost while eating well!!!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Morning!
Lots of good posts since I last checked in.
I started back on LC Sept. 3rd and have been testing ketones since about 2 weeks after that, almost consistently staying in ketosis, think I just dropped too low once. I am losing slowly but the trend is downward. I have now lost just a tiny bit over 15 lbs but people are telling me I look like I have lost more. Have lost all the puffiness that high carb can give you.
I had Reddarin help me figure out my ratios of how much protein/fat/calories to eat and have been falling right in the range of about 1500 calories, and 80/15/5. This last week, to experiment, I raised my calories and still had a loss this week. So, I am still in the learning and experimenting stage but love the fact that this is working for me and I feel good on it. Plus, it is EXCELLENT for my diabetes. My BS numbers are wonderful.

Congratulations on the loss Buffy!!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by tablis

btw you mentioned your cortisol shooting the thru the roof- is there a way to measure that?

The saliva test is the best way to measure. I have been tested three ways: saliva, 24 hour urine, and blood. I was really high when I first tested, have been working to lower it, and I can now physically tell when my cortisol goes high. Usually it's arounds something stressful, but I can still very easily go high in the morning without any stress. I should absolutely not be drinking coffee in the morning, but I do it anyway.

[risajs]

Way to go Buffy!!

[mom2zeke]

Here’s my novel. Hopefully my experiences can help someone else. I encourage everyone else to share what’s working (or not working) for them! Your experience can help others find their weight-loss path.

49 y.o. hypothyroid peri-menopausal female. I started out weighing 257 in 2001 and lost 90 pounds in by 2002 with Atkins. I then got stuck for 9.5 years. Over the years I’ve tried cutting calories and fat, exercising obsessively with HIIT and heavy lifting, Paleo/Primal, Leptin Reset, etc. I have managed to stay LC and not let my weight get any higher than 175, but I was never able to get below 162 and even then could not maintain that weight.

In May 2011 I was finally diagnosed hypothyroid and started going to doctors to see if that was getting in my way of losing. In March of 2012 I finally saw a doctor who correctly tested all of my hormones and helped me find a good endo to get on the right combo of Thyroid hormones. In March I was 175 pounds. At the beginning of June I was 170, feeling much better, starting kettlebell classes and heard about nutritional ketosis. I sent away for my free meter and got started lowering my protein. By the beginning of July when I started the NK thread on LCF I was 160 lb, got my meter and was testing in the 2.0 range in the mornings.

My personal strategy following the advice in The Art and Science of LC Performance was to figure out a good protein number based on my height, goal weight, and goal body fat percentage (I started out pretty low 50-60 grams I think), keep total carbs below 25 grams, and eat the rest of my calories in fat up to ~1200-1500 calories total. I tracked everything that I put in my mouth.
My typical day at that time was:
B: 2 eggs scrambled in coconut oil (I used refined, don’t like coconut flavored eggs), 1 ounce each of salsa and sour cream, ¼ c. of coconut cream in 2 cups of coffee
L: 2 ounces cream cheese w/ 1 fat bomb (coconut oil, cocoa powder, splenda, and mac nut butter)
S: 2 cups of coffee w/ ¼ c coconut cream
D: 3-5 ounces of protein (depending on fattiness/protein gram content), and one giant salad w/ olive oil & vinegar dressing

I lost in fits and starts, staying the same weight (even gaining a few pounds) for 1-2 weeks and then dropping 4 pounds over a few days. This pattern repeated until I got to goal.

Following this strategy I got to my goal weight of 150 pounds on August 27th. Not long after that I had my BF measured and it was 26%. My new goal is 20% BF using NK. Using an online calculator and my measurements my BF seems to be 23% right now. I’m not sure how much I trust that so I’m getting dunked on 12/1 to get a more definitive number. I do continue to very slowly lose inches which is encouraging.

For maintenance I slowly increased both my fat and protein and it seems to be working quite well. I now try for 70-90 grams of protein, less than 30 grams of carbs, and the rest fat. My total calories usually fall in the 2000 to 2300 range and I am maintaining nicely (as of this morning I am 148.4). My a.m. ketones now hover in the .5-1 range. If I go any higher on the protein and carbs I see lower ketones so if I’m extra hungry I try to eat fat.

[mom2zeke]

Buffy--has the higher protein affected your ketone readings at all?

[Buffy45]

No Kristn, they stay about the same, I rarely am below 1.0 but seem to never get above 1.6 or so. I really need to quit testing every day and wasting strips b/c it varies so little, but, I have to admit, I love to do the test and see I am in the "zone" . And, I have to test my BG every morning anyway, so I already have that little drop of blood just waiting . oh, I also test first thing in the morning before eating or drinking anything. So, my BK's are probably higher later in the day. I saw no change this week when I raised my protein and calories.

I am on my next to last box of the nice supply I got from CVS, darn that was a great deal. Each time I get an email from them, I go check to see if they have started carrying them again, but nope.

[risajs]

I am wondering how ya'll use the feedback from BG testing. I have the free strips that came with my Nova Max, but I never really gave any thought to them. Do you find a correlation between them and ketone level? Do you test fasted and/or other times? How does the feedback impact your WOE?

Thanks.