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Old 11-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #1261
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Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
My DD works for an old-school type business. It seems lately they've also sort of picked-and chose which rules they'd like to enforce and which they wouldn't.

Oceana I'm really more concerned with what happens after this. This is the scary after-school special we all saw coming, where crazy guy "gets even" for getting canned.

Or not.
Depends on your level of paranoia. I'm pretty ratcheted up, myself.
Same with this company, they pick and choose and I feel like i'm here to get them up to date and enforce these rules. I'm very worried about the aftermath, he knows where I live.

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Originally Posted by tablis View Post
Wait so they still haven't fired him yet? what if you go in there and remind them that your comments to them about him must be kept confidential when they speak with him.
Does anyone else know that it was you that spoke about him?
No and I stressed to them that I do not want him to know it was me that brought it to everyones attention, even tho I'm not the only one that did. But the manager here is so laid back and avoids stuff like this and I'm afraid they'll put me in a room with the guy and want me to repete it infront of his face. They just don't get it.
Oh well, we'll see later
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:30 PM   #1262
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Boy that probably describes my whole family - except for me. I am the odd man out. I've never liked honey. Well, not counting Bit-O-Honey.

Ohhhhh Bit-O-Honey...Mmmmm!!!!
I with ya on that one. Never liked real honey.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:37 PM   #1263
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It all came to light 2 weeks ago when he said he was gonna go get his gun out of his car because the owner was here, He said too many people telling him what to do. He claims he was in combat in the military and killed many and talks about doing drugs. Also, I don't bring my religion to work yet he wears "hate god" shirts and talks about it and I find that very offensive!
I'm worried he might retaliate and do something stupid, he knows where I live which is another scary thought!
We have no security.

I'll just keep praying for him and our safety.
Thanks for listening to my rant!
I could be wrong in his case but ...
The talkers are usually just talkers. The quiet ones are the ones I watch out for. Big talkers are usually cowards that aren't gonna do a darn thing but run off at the mouth. Get ya some pepper spray and stand taller and act strong. Which it sounds like you are already doing. Cudos to you and God bless you!
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:39 PM   #1264
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I was just like that. I ate a lot there for a while. I never dreamed I would be one of those people that actually could forget to eat.
Thanks Cheryl, that's reassuring! Here's to hoping!
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:40 PM   #1265
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
I can tell you that my experience has been that the appetite suppression did happen for me - twice so far.

The first time was on HFLC. I was LC then I discovered the EFGT category and someone posted an 80/15/5 thread that I followed. My macros were screwy back then but it wasn't NK just super high fat. I frequently got over 85% fat but I doubt my protein intake was really adequate during that (fairly short) period of time. I did experience the thrill of not feeling a compulsion to eat.

The second time was when I became adapted after starting NK back in September. I mentioned earlier that I was eating about 1500 calories a day. I ate that way for a while, even less on some days, and I was not hungry. I typically didn't eat anything after 5pm and didn't have any calories till the next morning with my CO/HWC/Coffee - about 12 hours later. When I finished the coffee mixture it would be around 7 hours, and as much as 9 hours, before I had anything else to eat. Essentially I was eating one meal a day although the high calorie coffee concoction was a meal calorie-wise.

As you know I am off plan because of quitting smoking. To my surprise I have once again experienced the compulsion to eat - something I hadn't felt in almost a year! Pretty dang annoying too. But I know that once I get back into NK and get adapted again I will be able to eat the calorie level I choose (which is probably around 2300 a day).

Thanks Red, I am in Ketosis now, just waiting to get adapted i guess....
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:43 PM   #1266
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Sopie, it did take a while if I remember, I was so in heaven eating all this high fat, yummo things but it did subside.
Are you logging and if so, how many grams and what percentage of fat are you eating? That is what seems to really fill me up, is the really high fat. I even have a problem getting enough protein in for the day as I am so not hungry. But, I start drinking coffee with lots of CO as soon as I get up and keep drinking that, adding more Co to each cup, often until the pot is empty.

We will keep working on it and you until we get you filled up my dear
Ohhhhhh, well definitely getting a lot of fat in....at least 85% (over 100g of fat daily). I did just eat (almost) a whole tub of cream cheese, and that has tided me over for the past several hours....maybe that's just what I need....a tub of CC a day
I also get my protein requirements (as per Red and Phinney)- sometimes more
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:46 PM   #1267
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Originally Posted by tablis View Post
I'm taking 1000 mgs of Vitamin C, 800 of magnesium lots of CO and the EVOO.
This always happens to me though on LC just now I'm VVVVLC
Sorry- I did laugh when I read this- though it isn't funny... You are doing everything short of laxatives to get things moving along. Do you feel constipated? Sometimes I know that I may not feel constipated and not need to go all that often.

I assume you are drinking a lot of water too?

Gosh, I hope things begin to move for you!
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:48 PM   #1268
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Hi ALL!!
Some great discussions going on this morning!!

I posted what I'm about to say on the meat egg thread but wanted to do here also. Sorry it is completely off topic but I tell you guys everythng anyways so here goes.....

I've been struggling with a guy at work that talks about shooting people and other horrible things, and he carries his gun holster on his hip in the office. I've had a meeting about it yet he continues to work here.
well today he made a horrible joke and I put my foot down, and said enough is enough. A few days ago we had a co worker die of a heart attack at the age of 32, leaving his wife and I think 5 children behind. Anyway this guy walks by my desk with an energy drink and says " I'm gonna drink this and try to have a heart attack and die like happy feet" (that was his nickname) well that was my breaking point! I told everyone I wouldn't be in tomorrow if they didn't terminate him and they are as I type. I'm sorry it's off subject but I had to get it off my chest! I would never joke about someones loss of life even if they were my worst enemy.

No appetite today at all!
Wow Oceana- sorry to hear about your work issues. That's great that you stood up like that! A hostile work environment is terrible in so many ways.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:49 PM   #1269
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I could be wrong in his case but ...
The talkers are usually just talkers. The quiet ones are the ones I watch out for. Big talkers are usually cowards that aren't gonna do a darn thing but run off at the mouth. Get ya some pepper spray and stand taller and act strong. Which it sounds like you are already doing. Cudos to you and God bless you!
I agree with Cheryl. He is dumb as a brick to joke about that stuff but crazies are usually the ones hiding out in the woods, off the grid, not bragging about their weapons prowess.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:22 PM   #1270
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Well. Reaction to fat and/or protein consumption level(s) are a symptom of another problem - not the problem. Probably low stomach acid is actually the problem assuming you are past induction. And assuming that you are not eating too many carbs and therefore continually experiencing induction when your carbs are low enough to trigger it.

If the problem really is low stomach acid you can determine it very inexpensively without even visiting a doctor - there is a clinical test for this condition.

Dilute a little apple cider vinegar in water. Drink the solution immediately before or just after a meal that you know you would otherwise cause a reaction. You may have to tinker with the amount of ACV you take to see results but it wouldn't take very much - maybe 2T at most but start with 1tsp. There are acid pills you can get but I think they are Rx? Can't remember.

The amount of ACV that is required to make you feel better is an indication of how much help your belly needs to digest food.

----------

CO does have a bit of a sweetness to it to me too. Yummy heh. But if you make, say, a fat bomb with it without a sweetener you'll see it is mostly an illusion.

You can also test yourself at home --by drinking a glass
of water mixed with a quarter-teaspoon of baking soda. Drink
this in the morning on an empty stomach... if you belch
within 2-3 minutes, you have enough acid in your stomach, and the ACV probably won't be helpful.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:37 PM   #1271
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Oceana,

Good for you for standing up for a decent work environment. It sounds like this guy is a real creep, so probably others have expressed dissatisfaction as well. When they talk to him I'm sure they won't name names (they would have to be very irresponsible managers to do so), so there is little reason that he would single you out.

Let us know what happens.

Mary
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:59 PM   #1272
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Well going home tommorrow !I m ready to see my 4 cats and dog,there just like my kids...
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #1273
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Well going home tommorrow !I m ready to see my 4 cats and dog,there just like my kids...
Ya'll stayed an extra day? I thought that you were going to be home today?
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:34 PM   #1274
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Weather was rainy so decided to wait till tommorrow . it will take us about 6 hours..
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:39 PM   #1275
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Good decision! Driving in the rain is no fun at all. I reckon the kitties might disagree heh
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:09 PM   #1276
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Hiya hbird

Well, I finally added a formula to my little spreadsheet to figure out the ratio of protein grams to goal weight given the actual grams consumed heh.

At 120g of protein you were at 2.4g/kg protein which is very high. I think even for someone doing a lot of resistance exercise the most Phinney recommends is 2.0g/kg.

Even the low end of 90g is 1.8g/kg which is higher than Phinney's floor of 1.5g/kg. Although the other NK thread has his floor at 1.0g/kg. Hmmm. I wonder about that. Whatever!

The really good news, for you, is that at 1.5g/kg for 110 goal weight you can eat 75g of protein a day

I'd set that as my goal and see how it works out. I think the ideal is to eat as much protein as is reasonable rather than as little as is possible.

Be careful of the nut butters.

Be careful to avoid high PUFA fats.

GERD - awful awful condition. I hope that you/we can tweak things to minimize or get rid of it altogether.

And you mentioned that you were losing weight slowly so you can always go back to that if the GERD is a problem while trying NK. I think that slowly losing is a wonderful trade-off.


Thanks for the response. I think that getting my protein grams down to the mid-70s-50s is going to be a big help with weight loss, but also--after a year and a half of VLC, I had a pre-diabetic fasting glucose reading that I think may have been a result of excess protein. When I retest this spring, I hope to see an improvement.

I have been doing mostly ok with my macros, but do want to ditch the reliance on nut butters because I would rather get my protein from meat and because they are sooo addicting for me.

I backed off a lot on the butter today, so far, no GERD issues. My other fats come from meat, eggs, CO, HWC and some cheese and none of that seems to bother me too much.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:01 PM   #1277
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Hi all, I've been stalking this thread for a bit but decided to come out of the woodwork.. A few questions though..

Aiming for about 65-70g protein/day and about 1600 calories overall for my goal weight/height. I was trying Atkins but was having SERIOUS issues with overeating protein.. 150g a day in some cases..

First question, and I asked this in the main forum but didn't get a straight up answer: How many grams of protein would one have to eat for it to begin to be converted to glucose, knocking them out of ketosis? Are there any ballpark estimates for this? I know it must vary...

Second question, how do you guys up the fat for high protein, lower fat meats like boneless skinless chicken breast or skirt steak? Just wondering as I have a TON of these meats in my freezer that need to be used. My boyfriend doesn't eat lowcarb, but we will usually eat the same kinds of meals, and I'll throw a sweet potato or rice on his plate as well. He definitely doesn't need any kind of diet, he's 5'11 all muscle and 145 pounds soaking wet! (Jealous)

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to being active here
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:07 PM   #1278
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Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
I could be wrong in his case but ...
The talkers are usually just talkers. The quiet ones are the ones I watch out for. Big talkers are usually cowards that aren't gonna do a darn thing but run off at the mouth. Get ya some pepper spray and stand taller and act strong. Which it sounds like you are already doing. Cudos to you and God bless you!
Oceana, I agree with Cheryl here...I worked psych hospital time for five years and learned way too much....but the loud, arrogant, mouthy types are usually gutless cowards. I don't know about the laws in your state, but you cannot allow a "set up" like this as an employer without addressing it...meaning the gun statement created a hostile work environment and that placed you all in danger - thus your company owner could be held liable. Pack some good Pepper Spray!
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:10 PM   #1279
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Originally Posted by mizzcase View Post
First question, and I asked this in the main forum but didn't get a straight up answer: How many grams of protein would one have to eat for it to begin to be converted to glucose, knocking them out of ketosis? Are there any ballpark estimates for this? I know it must vary...

What a great question--very interested to see people's thoughts.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:13 PM   #1280
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Originally Posted by mizzcase View Post
Hi all, I've been stalking this thread for a bit but decided to come out of the woodwork.. A few questions though..

Aiming for about 65-70g protein/day and about 1600 calories overall for my goal weight/height. I was trying Atkins but was having SERIOUS issues with overeating protein.. 150g a day in some cases..

First question, and I asked this in the main forum but didn't get a straight up answer: How many grams of protein would one have to eat for it to begin to be converted to glucose, knocking them out of ketosis? Are there any ballpark estimates for this? I know it must vary...

Second question, how do you guys up the fat for high protein, lower fat meats like boneless skinless chicken breast or skirt steak? Just wondering as I have a TON of these meats in my freezer that need to be used. My boyfriend doesn't eat lowcarb, but we will usually eat the same kinds of meals, and I'll throw a sweet potato or rice on his plate as well. He definitely doesn't need any kind of diet, he's 5'11 all muscle and 145 pounds soaking wet! (Jealous)

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to being active here
Hi and Welcome!!! As far as adding extra fat to lean meats...I make an herb olive oil dip (olive oil poured over different herbs/spices)...then I just dip or pour it over the chicken or meat that i'm eating. Alternatively, I eat avocado or homemade mayo (like an aioli sauce) as a dip for the chicken/meat....Getting extra fat is and has never been my problem :-)

Hope this helps!
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:17 PM   #1281
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Originally Posted by mizzcase View Post
Hi all, I've been stalking this thread for a bit but decided to come out of the woodwork.. A few questions though..

Aiming for about 65-70g protein/day and about 1600 calories overall for my goal weight/height. I was trying Atkins but was having SERIOUS issues with overeating protein.. 150g a day in some cases..

First question, and I asked this in the main forum but didn't get a straight up answer: How many grams of protein would one have to eat for it to begin to be converted to glucose, knocking them out of ketosis? Are there any ballpark estimates for this? I know it must vary...

Second question, how do you guys up the fat for high protein, lower fat meats like boneless skinless chicken breast or skirt steak? Just wondering as I have a TON of these meats in my freezer that need to be used. My boyfriend doesn't eat lowcarb, but we will usually eat the same kinds of meals, and I'll throw a sweet potato or rice on his plate as well. He definitely doesn't need any kind of diet, he's 5'11 all muscle and 145 pounds soaking wet! (Jealous)

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to being active here
Welcome! The experts on the macros may have that answer for you. I would imagine it would be depending on your personal stats, age, height, weight, etc. I ate very high protein for years, and realized it was converting, thus my weight loss stopped. Upping fat is different for everyone. I love butter, egg yolks, bacon, cream cheese, coconut butter, coconut cream, learning to love CO, fatty meats are great too, mac nuts are nearly all fat. I am not as creative as the others, they have great recipes! If I am forced to eat chicken (white meat) or turkey I add some oil to it, brush it on and warm it back up. I like almond or walnut oil on turkey or chicken. Chicken thighs are better and contain more nutrients too! I have a very tall DH, and thin again...yes, understand the jealous part, too easy for them!
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:31 PM   #1282
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Originally Posted by mizzcase View Post
Hi all, I've been stalking this thread for a bit but decided to come out of the woodwork.. A few questions though..

Aiming for about 65-70g protein/day and about 1600 calories overall for my goal weight/height. I was trying Atkins but was having SERIOUS issues with overeating protein.. 150g a day in some cases..

First question, and I asked this in the main forum but didn't get a straight up answer: How many grams of protein would one have to eat for it to begin to be converted to glucose, knocking them out of ketosis? Are there any ballpark estimates for this? I know it must vary...

Second question, how do you guys up the fat for high protein, lower fat meats like boneless skinless chicken breast or skirt steak? Just wondering as I have a TON of these meats in my freezer that need to be used. My boyfriend doesn't eat lowcarb, but we will usually eat the same kinds of meals, and I'll throw a sweet potato or rice on his plate as well. He definitely doesn't need any kind of diet, he's 5'11 all muscle and 145 pounds soaking wet! (Jealous)

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to being active here
Hi there welcome to the thread

I have not seen a specific number for protein conversion to glucose. I think, though, that the reason for that is that the number floats and is very much an individual thing. It is essentially anytime you eat enough excess protein - pure guess on my part.

But I think defining 'excess' is fairly fuzzy. That is why there are so many different opinions on what is enough and too much. Phinney has said 1.5 to 2.0 grams per ideal kg of weight. The other thread says Phinney advises 1.0 to ??? (I think). Kristn mentioned it in a thread recently but I cannot recall what she said.

Phinney also said that as a macro percentage once you get to 35+% for protein you tend to fall out of NK or cannot stay in a state of NK.

So, along with absolute grams, relative grams are important too.

I would start high, at the 1.5g figure, and work down gradually rather than start low and risk LBM.

---------

I eat a lot of boneless skinless chicken breast. Lean protein like that makes it easier to manage your calorie goal I think.

To get your fat up...

Use sour cream in/on your dish. I weigh out an oz and toss the finished chicken dish with it. Very tasty. An oz or 1.5 is pretty good depending on how much you are coating.

Use HWC floats.

Eat straight CO.

Use butter as a dip like you would with crab legs.

I melted an oz of butter today and drizzled that over my chicken & broccoli dish with 1 oz of sour cream stirred in. Very tasty and very fattening.

CO Bark is a good way to get fat in.

Fat bombs.

Cream cheese clouds.

-> Basically if you are eating lean protein then you just supplement with as much pure fat as needed.


Last edited by reddarin; 11-27-2012 at 06:39 PM.. Reason: Added 'Phinney advises' to the 1.0(?) figure the other thread uses.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:41 PM   #1283
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Hi there welcome to the thread

I have not seen a specific number for protein conversion to glucose. I think, though, that the reason for that is that the number floats and is very much an individual thing. It is essentially anytime you eat enough excess protein - pure guess on my part.

But I think defining 'excess' is fairly fuzzy. That is why there are so many different opinions on what is enough and too much. Phinney has said 1.5 to 2.0 grams per ideal kg of weight. The other thread says 1.0 to ??? (I think). Kristn mentioned it in a thread recently but I cannot recall what she said.

Phinney also said that as a macro percentage once you get to 35+% for protein you tend to fall out of NK or cannot stay in a state of NK.

So, along with absolute grams, relative grams are important too.

I would start high, at the 1.5g figure, and work down gradually rather than start low and risk LBM.
So grateful for everyone's responses! Is that 1.5 * LBM (89 pds for me) or * total goal weight (110-111ish)? Is that measured in pds or kgs? Thanks yall, I'm gonna drench the chicken breast tomorrow in an olive oil dip.. I'm a strange bird, I abhor mayo. Uck!
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:48 PM   #1284
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So grateful for everyone's responses! Is that 1.5 * LBM (89 pds for me) or * total goal weight (110-111ish)? Is that measured in pds or kgs?
It is 1.5g per goal weight in kg. The formula is (110/2.2)*1.5 which is 75g of protein. [pounds conversion to kg is pounds/2.2]

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I'm a strange bird, I abhor mayo. Uck!
A kindred soul!

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Old 11-27-2012, 06:53 PM   #1285
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Perfect, that shouldn't be too hard to hit. Thanks
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:40 PM   #1286
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Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61 View Post
Oceana, I agree with Cheryl here...I worked psych hospital time for five years and learned way too much....but the loud, arrogant, mouthy types are usually gutless cowards. I don't know about the laws in your state, but you cannot allow a "set up" like this as an employer without addressing it...meaning the gun statement created a hostile work environment and that placed you all in danger - thus your company owner could be held liable. Pack some good Pepper Spray!
Yeah we always talk about how it's all a front for him!!! It just got to the point where it was an everyday thing for him to talk about shooting people and drugs and death. We have all had enough. We did discuss how it's usually the quiet ones that really act on it but a guy that works real close to him believes that it's a possibility he would act on it.

So after all the "drama" the owner just had a talk with him and that's it!!! It's a pretty big company so I'm not too pleased with how they handled the situation. We'll see if it does any good in the next couple weeks.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:14 PM   #1287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasonnier View Post
Sorry- I did laugh when I read this- though it isn't funny... You are doing everything short of laxatives to get things moving along. Do you feel constipated? Sometimes I know that I may not feel constipated and not need to go all that often.

I assume you are drinking a lot of water too?

Gosh, I hope things begin to move for you!
I've used laxatives here and there over the years too when I was um...stuck -
but I know its bad and I try not too
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:02 AM   #1288
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NC
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Stats: 171/155/130
WOE: low carb/Nutritional Ketosis
Start Date: Aug-2012/Oct-2012
My weight was 158.5 this am. BUT.....
I had another little bug last night and was sick.
ONe of my kiddies moms informed me at pickup yeterday that she had had diarreah the night before. My syptoms were the same as hers.
LUckily it was a fast bug. I just hope the rest of my crew didn't get it.
So I guess I can now. heheehe

I still have sinus issues from the other bug, I hope it's not gonna be one of those winters that I stay sick all the time.
My hubby also came home with news that his workplace will be laying off 55 people. I thought the economy was supposed to be getting better.

So we are in for some big changes around here.
He really wants to go back to school so say a lil prayer he he gets to. Otherwise he will be sent to 2nd or 3rd shift

Lets hope today is a little calmer.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:14 AM   #1289
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,460
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Stats: 6' 47y/o 265/193/170
WOE: NK
Start Date: Aug 13, 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
My weight was 158.5 this am. BUT.....
I had another little bug last night and was sick.
ONe of my kiddies moms informed me at pickup yeterday that she had had diarreah the night before. My syptoms were the same as hers.
LUckily it was a fast bug. I just hope the rest of my crew didn't get it.
So I guess I can now. heheehe

I still have sinus issues from the other bug, I hope it's not gonna be one of those winters that I stay sick all the time.
My hubby also came home with news that his workplace will be laying off 55 people. I thought the economy was supposed to be getting better.

So we are in for some big changes around here.
He really wants to go back to school so say a lil prayer he he gets to. Otherwise he will be sent to 2nd or 3rd shift

Lets hope today is a little calmer.
That is terrible news for those folks that are going to be laid off

So, it is good that at least your husband is keeping his job even if it is moving to a different shift

This is your first winter LC? Are you wheat-free too? Between LC, wheat-free and CO I think you'll be surprised at how much healthier the winter will be. Hmmm. Might be good to have some cheapie LouAnn for hand sanitizer for yourself and maybe the other ladies.

I know when I quit wheat and went LC I quit getting sick like I used to.

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Old 11-28-2012, 03:21 AM   #1290
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: GA
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Stats: 5'4 141/130.2/113
WOE: LCHF
Start Date: March 20, 2012
Good morning y'all.. 126.2 this morning.. meh, not too happy about it given I was 127.6 yesterday and figured it was water due to the carb fest the night before.. Will hold off on recording a new official weight until 12/1.

Doing the fat fast for a 2nd day to try to kick myself into ketosis.

B: Coffee w/ 1T HWC
On the way to school: Diet rootbeer w/ 3T heavy whipping cream
L: 2 oz Brie
S: 2 oz Brie
D: 5 slices bacon
S: 1.5 c romaine w/ 1.5 T EVOO

I was that strange child that loved all the weird foods when I was a kid: brussels sprouts, peas, smelly cheeses, etc. Used to LOVE Brie.. but I remember it tasting more buttery than what I had last night. Now it tastes like a mild blue cheese.. not sure I like it. Will keep eating it regardless :-)
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