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Old 10-01-2012, 05:29 AM   #1
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High Fat 80/15/5 - October Version

Hello Everyone!

Welcome to October's High Fat 80/15/5 thread!

Our goal is a healthy LC high fat macro and mandatory daily protein regimen resulting in a state of nutritional ketosis. The ideal ratios would be 80/15/5 F/P/C but the execution is to eat the required protein amount in grams and filling out the rest of your calories in fat with carbs being as low as possible.

So as long as you are eating your required protein, any day that results in 70+% Fat macro is a win. If you can reach 80% so much the better but it is very hard to do with any sort of calorie restraint and you can't eat unlimited calories to lose weight.

Protein

First determine your protein requirements. There are several ways to do it. Here are 3.

The Kwasniewski formula:

((Height in cm)-100) +/-10% = Protein Grams

------

A formula I found at an exercise site which seems to be very similar to Dr. Phinney's approach:

Quote:
How to Calculate Your Protein Needs:

1. Weight in pounds divided by 2.2 = weight in kg
2. Weight in kg x 0.8-1.8 gm/kg = protein gm.

Use a lower number if you are in good health and are sedentary (i.e., 0.8). Use a higher number (between 1 and 1.8) if you are under stress, are pregnant, are recovering from an illness, or if you are involved in consistent and intense weight or endurance training.

Example: 154 lb male who is a regular exerciser and lifts weights
154 lbs/2.2 = 70kg
70kg x 1.5 = 105 gm protein/day
------

And the formula used in the Nutritional Ketosis thread:

Quote:
Multiply your goal weight times your desired body fat percentage. This will give you your desired Lean Body Mass (LBM).

Multiply your LBM by 0.6. This will give you the low end of daily protein consumption. Your LBM in grams is the high end of your consumption.

For example, if I desire to weigh 150 lbs with 18% body fat, my target LBM is 150 * (1-.18) = 123 lbs. This means I should consume between 73.8g of protein (123 * 0.6) and 123g of protein per day.
Protein Part II
As you can see from the three different methods there is a wide range of guesstimated protein requirements for an individual. I think it is best not to go below the lowest one at any cost since losing lean body mass is bad. You can use a range of protein values to give you menu a little flexibility.

A frequent question is how to get protein right and get fat high. Probably the easiest approach is to eat fatty protein.

Calories

You can't lose weight if you are consuming more calories than expending. That is true although it is usually used as a pejorative by the anti-LC crowd as some sort of a gotcha.

There are a lot of BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) calorie calculators on the web. Find one you like and use it to get an idea of what your calorie goal should be. I say 'an idea' because those calculators are guesstimates - not hard and fast iron-clad exactitudes. So use the numbers as a guideline on what you should shoot for rather than a mandate on what you must do.

Once you know your protein grams and have an idea of your daily calorie goal you can work on getting there with a combination of protein and fat.

Fat

A quick word about Fat because it is important. Not all Fat is created equal. Soy oil is not a good fat - it is a polyunsaturated oil. Use mono-unsaturated and saturated oils. Coconut oil, real butter, olive oil, etc. If you aren't sure about the oil google it. Don't sabotage yourself by using what the Standard American Diet considers a 'healthy fat'.

Food Logging

There are several really good food loggers. Direct linking is not possible per the TOS of LCF so just google around. Try at least 3, using them at the same time, so you can get a feel for which one suits you best. Most of them have smart phone companion apps if that is important to you.

You really have to log your food if you are going to be successful at the challenge of 80/15/5. That doesn't make it a ball and chain that you are forever saddled with, but your short term goal is virtually undoable without accurately logging what you eat.

Links of Interest

The thread that spawned this one.

The original Nutritional Ketosis thread - very, very long but lots of good posts all throughout it and it was where I discovered the protein requirements element of the big picture. Kudos and a warm, warm thanks to Kristn for starting that thread!

The second NK thread - where they continued the conversation after the first thread got so long.

The 3rd thread in NK (new for October).

An NK menu thread spawned by the other NK threads.

Supplements

If you aren't supplementing start now. It is important. Here are a few tips on it to get you started.

Most Americans, probably most people worldwide, are magnesium deficient. Magnesium is a wonder mineral that has far ranging benefits. For LC'rs, on top of all of the other wonderful things it does, it also helps with regularity. It is a must. Go easy! Here me now and avoid an unpleasant reaction. Don't go full dose all at once. Ramp up to whatever dose you set for yourself. Start at 1/4 to 1/2 the RDA and slowly go up over a week or two's time. If you react to your dose don't panic. It will pass. Lower the dose and take a little more time. I currently take 2xRDA.

Google 'LLVLC-ep-602-morley-robbins', it should be the first hit, for an excellent free podcast about this very important mineral.

Potassium. All LC'rs should probably be supplementing with potassium. It can solve the problem of leg/feet/hand cramps. Dr. Eades of Protein Power advises 4 of the 99mg pills while on induction and then 2 of the 99mg pills, I believe, afterwards. If you are experiencing cramps don't overlook water intake. Dehydration causes awful cramps too. The best thing is pure water. The next best thing is liquid that doesn't have a lot of chemicals (including caffeine) in it. Probably you should learn to love pure water.

Multi-vitamin. I doubt there are many LC'rs not taking a multivitamin but if you happen to be one, go to the store now and buy some. Really.

The rest. There are others that you probably should be taking daily too. Google 'atlcx-26-dr-jonny-bowden', it should be the first hit, for a free podcast that is excellent about supplements in general for LC. Jimmy Moore asks the fantastic question 'what are your trapped on a desert island choices'.

Notes

Join in the conversation any time. Feel free to ask any questions you have. We are all happy to help you. Lurkers are welcome too.

Last edited by reddarin; 10-01-2012 at 06:15 AM..
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:34 AM   #2
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Good morning Darin! Thanks for the fantastic intro on Octobers thread!

Happy October 2012 everyone!
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:43 AM   #3
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Thanks =)

I meant to do the write up for it yesterday but completely spaced it so I was racing trying to get it done this morning. I've got to run the dog to the vet here in a minute.

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Old 10-01-2012, 05:45 AM   #4
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weigh-in 10012012

Weigh-in this morning ... 193.5!



Got to run! See ya'll later
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:45 AM   #5
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Good Morning! Thanks Darin, almost panic to find you guys. Checking in. Does anyone here us a great, reliable Body Fat online tracker? Will check in again between meetings.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:36 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61 View Post
Good Morning! Thanks Darin, almost panic to find you guys. Checking in. Does anyone here us a great, reliable Body Fat online tracker? Will check in again between meetings.
Here is one from the HHS website:

Calculate Your BMI - Standard BMI Calculator



[edit: Wups. You asked for a tracker and I just linked a calculator. I think most of the food logging sites do BMI tracking too. I know ****** does.]

Last edited by reddarin; 10-01-2012 at 08:44 AM.. Reason: oops. heh.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:37 AM   #7
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Good morning all,,off to work just stop by to say have a great day!!yes yes I'm down to 175 that's 1.5 lb since fri.my goal has been meet!
Good morning PC and Congrats!!

And Hooray for accomplishing your goal!
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:02 AM   #8
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Vanity time!

After dropping the dog off at the vet (everyone keep your fingers crossed she does okay in the surgery - dental stuff and she's 11), I had to run by Wal-Mart for some dish soap.

So, I thought, what the heck. These 34s are pretty dang loose on me I wonder if I can fit into 32s?

I can

It wasn't pretty and I had to exhale deeply but I got them closed and zipped up lol. I had a heck of a muffin top going or I'd have shown off to the nice lady monitoring the dressing rooms

I still bragged about it to her when I left to put the jeans back on the shelf.

I wonder if I drop another 10 pounds, which is my goal, if they will really fit for normal wear? I'm pretty sure I haven't worn 32s since HS.

By the way, what do ya'll think. I have worn Wranglers for years and years but when I lost a lot of weight I switched to Levi's. After wearing Levi's for several months I do not like the way Wranglers fit. Now, these are Wal-Mart Wranglers so they aren't comparable to the Sears Levi's I bought I don't think. That is to say, I imagine Wranglers has a step up in quality version that Wal-Mart won't carry because of price.

Well, I know Wranglers has higher quality jeans because I used to buy the Riggs version with the leather fold on the right from pocket. I liked the way they fit.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:12 AM   #9
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Sorry Darin, can't help you with your Texan bluejean mens apparel but that is awesome that you are almost in 32's! My husband is 6'1 and a tight 34 and he is very slim! You are almost at goal! How long did this take you. What plan have you been doing since 265? Have you always counted the macronutrients? How long on NK?
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:35 AM   #10
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Sorry Darin, can't help you with your Texan bluejean mens apparel but that is awesome that you are almost in 32's! My husband is 6'1 and a tight 34 and he is very slim!
It doesn't take much poundage to make a big difference in tight and just right on the 34s I've been wearing. I think I finally fit into them at about 215 but they were really tight. I'm 193 now and they are super loose. Loose enough that I really need to wear a belt or I have to hitch them up all the time.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:51 AM   #11
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You are almost at goal! How long did this take you. What plan have you been doing since 265? Have you always counted the macronutrients? How long on NK?
My exact LC start date is August 13th 2011. I had just finished Why We Get Fat. So, right at 1 year, one month and two weeks from 265 to 193. But that doesn't really portray the time frame correctly because about 1 week after starting I got derailed by some serious medical issues with my Mother (who is 72). While she was in the hospital I ate like a pig and totally high carb. Ice cream and chips and french bread loaves and all sorts of carby junk. The sky was the limit.

She recovered and right after she got out of the hospital, about 2 weeks all told, I got Wheat Belly and read it.

Wow!!! Talk about an eye opener! Wheat affects me *exactly* like Dr. Davis describes in his book. The hunger roller coaster. The whole shebang.

It is important to note that after Wheat Belly my LC has been 100% wheat free as much as humanly possible.

So, I restarted in September of 2011. Around the 9th I think. I dropped about 20 pounds in a matter of weeks. Then I was browsing the forums here at LCF and found the Eat Fat Get Thin category. I read a thread about HFLC (High Fat Low Carb) and the gloves were off! That was when I started logging food at ****** and watching my macros. I ate 80+% Fat almost every day. I was eating around 2500 calories during that period so I accidentally kept my protein fairly high too which was a very fortunate happenstance since I wasn't aware of the lean body mass issue or that I needed a minimum protein intake to protect it.

I did HFLC all the way down to 201 which I achieved in Feb 2012. Then I bounced to 205 and got stuck there. I really thought I was gonna break the 200 mark before my birthday on March 4th but I didn't. I was pretty dang disappointed but nothing seemed to get me past the 205 mark. Just teaser scale readings between 203 to 205.

I was stuck from Feb 2012 till around the 10th of Sept 2012.

Then I joined the original High Fat thread. Then I read the Nutritional Ketosis thread and got turned on to the Protein focused method of eating high fat, although they do things quite a bit differently in that thread.

I've broken my long, long stall, I've finally broken into Onderland and I've lost 10 pounds since beginning my version of the NK approach to LC.

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Old 10-01-2012, 10:10 AM   #12
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That is AWESOME Darin! Thanks so much for sharing with me.
Even though I've been on this board for a long time 2002 I think...I deep down thought that low carb (like Atkins style) was unhealthy and I never felt good on it. Now, since doing the NK for a couple of week (with one big screw up) I've been feeling so good..and losing too.

I also have learned that I'm such an habitual eater/snacker, I MUST track my food and calories always count. I've also recently found Jimmy Moores site which took me to the Taubes/Phinney books. I'm now a true believer that eating low carb and saturated fats are great for my health.

Have a great day and thanks so much for sharing info and friendliness to help others here.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:15 AM   #13
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That is AWESOME Darin! Thanks so much for sharing with me.
Even though I've been on this board for a long time 2002 I think...I deep down thought that low carb (like Atkins style) was unhealthy and I never felt good on it. Now, since doing the NK for a couple of week (with one big screw up) I've been feeling so good..and losing too.

I also have learned that I'm such an habitual eater/snacker, I MUST track my food and calories always count. I've also recently found Jimmy Moores site which took me to the Taubes/Phinney books. I'm now a true believer that eating low carb and saturated fats are great for my health.

Have a great day and thanks so much for sharing info and friendliness to help others here.


Same here on the NK thing, although I was so fat and unhealthy before doing a more normalized LC (as opposed to NKLC) I felt super when I went wheat-free LC. Then better still when I went HFLC.

Taubes wrote such a wonderful book when he penned Why We Get Fat. It stunned me. It reads like a novel and is so full of modern nutrition dogma destroying information it is unbelievable that riots haven't erupted over it.

If you haven't read Wheat Belly you should read that one too. It isn't as novelesque as WWGF but it is an extraordinary read.

I got Phinney's Art & Science book several months ago but never read it. I made the mistake of getting the kindle version and I've found that if you really want to study what you are reading, or if the subject is even mildly complicated, the kindle falls way short for usability. Since NKLC is really something Dr. Phinney developed, I decided to put up with kindle's shortcomings. I'm about 1/3 through and it is a great book.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:18 AM   #14
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Darin, fabulous introduction to the October thread. I'm a "lurker" as you all have such a fun "family" and joke so much that I felt uncomfortable stepping in. But I have enjoyed reading all your posts from all of you. And I love the camaraderie of this group. So, I'll continue to lurk, but wanted to thank you all for your posts!
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:03 PM   #15
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Darin, fabulous introduction to the October thread. I'm a "lurker" as you all have such a fun "family" and joke so much that I felt uncomfortable stepping in. But I have enjoyed reading all your posts from all of you. And I love the camaraderie of this group. So, I'll continue to lurk, but wanted to thank you all for your posts!
Thanks

Feel free to post any time Shelley =)
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:52 PM   #16
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Hey I'm home from work had a great day!!food!!i did not eat lunch till 1 so now got try to eat my protein and cals....not hungry.....

Thanks for starting the new oct...
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:52 PM   #17
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:04 PM   #18
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Hey I'm home from work had a great day!!food!!i did not eat lunch till 1 so now got try to eat my protein and cals....not hungry.....

Thanks for starting the new oct...
Welcome home and don't eat if you ain't hungry although try to get your protein minimums in
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:23 PM   #19
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Sounds good.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:47 PM   #20
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Hey PC, glad you had a good day at work!
I look forward to not feeling so hungry. Hasn't kicked in yet. I've been awake since 4:30 am and have eaten all of my food I had planned. I still have to make BBQ baby back ribs for my husband and kids I wish I didn't have food in my environment then I would be ok. I do get to have a float....Boston Cooler. Those are filling.

Last edited by zay; 10-01-2012 at 01:48 PM..
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:51 PM   #21
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Darin, I believe there are 4 or 5 interviews with Phinney and Volek on iTunes with Jimmy Moore. There are other podcasts with other interviewers as well. Maybe listen to those when you don't want to pick up the kindle. I would much rather listen or watch than read.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:54 PM   #22
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:28 PM   #23
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Hi everyone, just got back from my 4 day trip and found our Oct. thread. Red, great job of starting the new thread and the intro you wrote. The only other thing you might do is put a link to it at the end of the last thread so it is easy for people to follow us here.

Shelley, no need to be a lurker, be part of our fun group, we want more people to join in and share their ideas, journey, etc.

Welcome to any other newbies that have found us. Red is a fantastic leader and a LOT of fun.

Red, big congrats on your new low, and wow, 32 jeans, are you kiddding me!?!?

On the wrangler versus Levi's, you just have to try on as they each, or I know Levi has, several differnt styles and they all fit differently. Take an afternoon and go try on jeans until you find the style you like best, who cares which brand!

I had a very very fun trip and feel so good about the fact that I stayed LC the whole trip and didn't have any drinks!! My one concession is that over the 4 day period, I ate an entire chocolove dark choc bar with almonds and sea salt. Would have a few squares when we came back to our room at night to reward myself for sticking to LC.

Weight won't be reliable for a day or two, I always am up after a trip and I did feel like I ate bigger portions and more often than I do at home, but, we did walk a lot. So, I will know more about Wed or Thurs.

Tomorrow, when I get the time I want to ask some questions about my blood test results that just came back but I am too tired to go into it all tonight.

Glad to be back and glad to read all your posts!!!

P.S. Red, hope you dog does well, please let us know!
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:30 PM   #24
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Oh, also wanted to add that my blood ketone reading each morning was at least 1.4 or higher so that told me that I was eating correctly!
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:47 PM   #25
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Oh Duh Red, I see you did put a link to the Oct. thread, my bad!!!!
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:53 PM   #26
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Darin, I believe there are 4 or 5 interviews with Phinney and Volek on iTunes with Jimmy Moore. There are other podcasts with other interviewers as well. Maybe listen to those when you don't want to pick up the kindle. I would much rather listen or watch than read.
I've got at least two of them and they are fantastic. I'm working my way back through the hundreds of podcast, downloading the interesting ones as I go.

For the last several years I've been listening to various podcasts. I had a small mp3 player but once I got my Android phone I started using it for my player full time. Love Android!

I love reading though. I always have. In fact, for the last few months I've been on a tear devouring End Of The World As We Know It (EOTWAWKI) Zombie Apocalypse (ZA) books heh. But for studying the kindle annoys the beegees out of me.

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Old 10-01-2012, 04:01 PM   #27
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Oh Duh Red, I see you did put a link to the Oct. thread, my bad!!!!
I was gonna go check!

Actually, I had forgotten but I caught it and edited it to add. I was thinking maybe the edit didn't go through but I was in a rush to get the dog to the vet on time this morning.

Her name is Punkin and she came through just fine! She lost most of her teeth though and the vet said soft food from now on. She's starved so I scrambled her an egg to eat. I couldn't think of anything else soft and okay for her to eat. She ate it up but it bothered her gums a little afterwards poor thing.

Now I have to give her three pills a day for the next 10 days or so. And she was getting pretty crafty about eating the treat and spitting out the pill before the surgery. Aw heck. She can't chew. Dang it. That means I have to use the yukky method to give her the pills. Ugh. For both of us lol.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:02 PM   #28
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Oh, also wanted to add that my blood ketone reading each morning was at least 1.4 or higher so that told me that I was eating correctly!
That is awesome! Good job!
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:03 PM   #29
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And, Welcome Back Buffy hooray!!
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:12 PM   #30
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Stats: maintenance
WOE: Bernstein
Start Date: May 2003
Hello NK dieters. I, too, eat 80/15/5 ratios and enjoy following this thread. Test ketones occasionally and bgs multiple times daily.
I am an avid reader of all the gurus and have read everything out there and feel comfortable that this is a healthy way to eat especially for those with broken carbohydrate metabolisms. A little concerned if HF is good for heart patients though - my DH just had triple bypass surgery and his Dr reccomends a low fat diet for him so I am now torn with deciding what is healthiest for him. Anyone with experience there?

And Darin, I agree the kindle doesn't work for reference books!

Not a big poster but wanted to say hello.
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Oct goal 75 miles. 65 Done
Miles walked in 2014 - 962
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