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Old 10-03-2012, 07:58 AM   #151
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!!! A bit past curfew, no???

Don't need no stinking curfew at my age, hard to get into trouble these days
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:05 AM   #152
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Here is the public domain Stone Age book in PDF form for download. I haven't read it yet.

Google 'Voegtlin_1975_The_Stone_Age_Diet.pdf'.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:08 AM   #153
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Don't need no stinking curfew at my age, hard to get into trouble these days
Alright Missy. You just come traipsing in at all hours of the night.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:10 AM   #154
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I'm definitely in a stall. Started last week. Bounced up little by little to 2 lbs up from my lowest and now sitting here. I was trucking along and having really, really impressive losses, then --scrrreeeeccchhh-- to a halt and nothing now for a week and a half. I have truly done nothing different. Well, last week I did add iron in, which gave me bathroom issues, so I stopped it again.

Yesterday my numbers were fairly typical:
1433 calories (usually those are closer to 1600)
125 fat 77%
15 net carb 7%
60 protein 16%

I can't think of any new thing I have added to my diet that might be causing a stall. It's the same old stuff. I am very frustrated. I know that you all who have been stalled for long periods might think it's silly to be frustrated but I have SO much to lose! And things have been going SO well on this WOE, feeling great, energy up, etc.

I don't have a meter. I tried to order one of those free ones but it never arrived. I was losing at a great clip, so it seemed obvious I was in ketosis, so why bother? Now I wonder though.

Thinking of doing a fat fast. Wondering if that might kick it in to gear. I need to google the instructions though, I have no idea. Thoughts? Or just keep calm and carry on?
Amy, you lost 15 lbs in your first month of your new WOE, right? Started on 9/7/12. That's really really good. I vote for stay calm for right now. Like Red said, you can get to tweaking too soon and too fast, too many balls in the air, and then you are just confused as to what works and what doesn't. I don't know your age but are you still dealing with TOM issues? Do you have a way you determine if you are retaining fluid, a ring you wear at all times, etc? My weight had actually gone up after I logged on the 24th and stayed up all week until I left for my trip, then to my surprise it had dropped just a little when I got home so I was able to show a loss for last week. I "know" I ate more calories each day on my trip than I do at home. Have you started any new exercise, that can cause temporary gains. How did you determine your daily amount of calories? Could be you need to add some in? There are so many factors that I would wait this out. You had a great loss for Sept., try to hang in there as you are doing and see what Oct. shows? I am hoping for a 4 lb loss for my second month. I know you are anxious and have a lot to lose but if you feel good, if your inches are decreasing, if you are sleeping good or better, or less but better, if you have more energy, all these things point to the fact that what you are doing is right on.

Hope this helps, I am no expert but a very experienced dieter if that counts for anything

Hang in here with us and we will all work together to help each other on our paths!
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:13 AM   #155
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Alright Missy. You just come traipsing in at all hours of the night.
And don't be locking the door on me, don't park behind "MY" car's side of the garage and I don't even care if you leave the light on, I can see in the dark . I always give DH a hard time if he parks behind my garage, I tell him to quit trying to control me . He says, "I didn't think you were going anywhere", I say "I wasn't, but just in case I want to, I want a clear path to leave when I want".

I am a little sassy, just a little
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:15 AM   #156
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And don't be locking the door on me, don't park behind "MY" car's side of the garage and I don't even care if you leave the light on, I can see in the dark . I always give DH a hard time if he parks behind my garage, I tell him to quit trying to control me . He says, "I didn't think you were going anywhere", I say "I wasn't, but just in case I want to, I want a clear path to leave when I want".

I am a little sassy, just a little
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:38 AM   #157
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By the way Amy, are you doing regular measurements with a tape measure?
I did them at the beginning and today would be a great day to update them. I have no doubt about losing inches as I have gone down 2 jean sizes! But it would be great to have that inches lost number in my head too.

Thank you Red and Buffy for the kind words talking away from the edge of the cliff. You are right, if I change too much I won't know what's working. I am going to attempt to keep the carbs extra low, and not go over on the protein, and see what happens.
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I am a little sassy, just a little
A little?
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:27 AM   #158
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And don't be locking the door on me, don't park behind "MY" car's side of the garage and I don't even care if you leave the light on, I can see in the dark . I always give DH a hard time if he parks behind my garage, I tell him to quit trying to control me . He says, "I didn't think you were going anywhere", I say "I wasn't, but just in case I want to, I want a clear path to leave when I want".

I am a little sassy, just a little
it IS a control thing. I park behind BF to let him know I don't think he has any reason to go anywhere. When i don't care, I park beside him. Passive aggressive isn't it? Besides that, I do leave him enough room to drive around, but he stinks at it so then he has to ask me to move my car. So I'm like "I'm not blocking you in, there is plenty of room to go around"
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:39 AM   #159
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I've been meaning to post this for the last couple of days.

Several days ago I gave some thought to how much water I was drinking. It was a lot. A whole lot. Like 10 bottles a day. Plus a ton of diet soda.

It occurred to me that although lots of water is a good thing at some point there are diminishing returns. Was it really beneficial to me to drink *that* much water along with the huge amount of soda?

So, being of sound mind and body and having to choose between excessive amounts of water or soda I chose to reduce the water

I discovered something extraordinary. I'm not thirsty all the time. For years I've always had a bottle of water with me at all times. In the truck, on the desk, beside the bed. Always. Heck, I'd been keeping a case of it in the truck just so I would always have some with me no matter what.

And, of course, I drank it in all those locations all the time. When I began LC a year ago I did up my intake a little but I didn't have to go up much because I was already drinking so much.

In fact, 4 or 5 years ago while I was at a clinic for a sore shoulder I had them do the blood test for diabetes since excessive thirst is a common symptom and my father's side of the family has a history of it (along with weight problems).

The blood test cleared me - not even pre-diabetic. I was very relieved but still puzzled about the the thirst issue.

Now? Well, it doesn't bother me to leave without a bottle of water in my hand. *That* is really astounding for me. I still take one to have a sip but I'll leave and come back with a bottle that is 7/8ths full. Heck, I used to leave with a plastic bag that had at least 3 bottles of cold water in it.

I bet I've cut back to maybe 5 bottles of water a day. Keep in mind, though, that I drink 48oz of coffee every morning and a ton of soda plus all of the ice melting in my drinks. So I still drink more liquid than most people I think. And, I think I could have cut back a long time ago but was drinking out of habit.

Are fat people more thirsty than slender people? I mean, was part of the reason I was so thirsty because I was a fat guy? It doesn't seem likely. That means that there was something else going on physiologically that has mysteriously cleared up with LC living. Maybe the blood test was a false negative? I know my health was crap in general.
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:26 AM   #160
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Amy....I agree with the advice of the others...hang in there. I am up 1# this week already and that is lowering calories and protein. Go figure. I'm hanging in there for a month. My "new thing" is to make one small change and keep it for the month. Easy to remember when you make a change.

My only suggestion is to track total carbs and not net carbs. That helped me a while back as I was using fiber as a way to eat more carbs. Some of the books say to have total carbs in the counts, and the swedish doc (book others are now obtaining) says under 12 net carbs. As with most things, we have to find what works for us. But big WOO HOO's on losing 2 jeans sizes! I could care less about the number on the scale if my inches are shrinking. I think that is just fabulous!

Re: the water issue that Red/Darin has brought up. When I was my thinnest I never drank any water, coffee, tea....but I had lots of fresh fruit so guess that was where I got my "water".

OMG...I just looked across at the hills and they are covered with snow!!!!!! Yikes! (sorry)

Anyway, my skin was always dry, I was always cold, etc. Once I started LC eating, I was told to drink more water. I got my water intake up to a consistent 10-14 cups a day easily. Now I'm doing the NK eating and higher fat and I am not drinking my water again. Just don't want any and have a hard time swallowing. Mike on the NK thread said he was craving water as well until he got potassium into his system, and then it stopped. So, Darin, are you consuming enough potassium??? Or now that you aren't drinking as much water, could it be because you added in potassium??? Just curious.

Today I decided to have something different for breakfast after my 3 mile walk. I had steamed spinach in bacon grease, with 3 pieces of cut up bacon and then a bit of HWC to make it into creamed spinach...and then I had one of my "spice protein bars" as I just wanted one. Well, 770 calories later (91% fat through), I'm feeling really happy! ha ha Good thing "breakfast" was at 10:30 AM so there is no need for a lunch. But that's my highest caloric breakfast ever I'm sure. It sure was fun! :-)
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:50 AM   #161
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Red, I think the decrease in thirst is due to the magnesium you are taking, I don't know that for sure but we were discussing that, I think, over on the other NK board one day. I have always been soooo thirsty, blamed it on allergy meds, then pre-diabetes, then thought it would go down after I got on diabetic meds, it didn't but I thought, hey, water is good for you. Then I tested low on potassium and Dr. even said, don't drink so much water, but I craved it and craved it. Since starting mag 2-3 weeks ago,guess what? Not nearly as thirsty!
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:52 AM   #162
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Oh, right Shelley, I also started on potassium pills about 4 months ago, maybe it is that, not the mag.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:23 PM   #163
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So, Darin, are you consuming enough potassium??? Or now that you aren't drinking as much water, could it be because you added in potassium??? Just curious.
Yup, been supplementing that for a long time. Dr. Eades put me on to it last year on his blog.

But! Your question makes me ponder ... Everyone strives to drink lots of water. That results in lots of bathroom trips. That results in depleting potassium. That results in the body saying, gawd I'm thirsty because I need potassium. That results in lots of trips to the bathroom. OMG!! It is like we are trapped exploring the Typhon Expanse!
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:33 PM   #164
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Red, I think the decrease in thirst is due to the magnesium you are taking, I don't know that for sure but we were discussing that, I think, over on the other NK board one day. I have always been soooo thirsty, blamed it on allergy meds, then pre-diabetes, then thought it would go down after I got on diabetic meds, it didn't but I thought, hey, water is good for you. Then I tested low on potassium and Dr. even said, don't drink so much water, but I craved it and craved it. Since starting mag 2-3 weeks ago,guess what? Not nearly as thirsty!
Now that is a very interesting observation Buffy!

In fact, I have increased my magnesium dose in the last few weeks and that coincides with my dramatic decrease in thirst! Wow!

I wonder how magnesium has that effect. I think it might have something to do with the way it relaxes the walls of blood veins which helps with BP. If you think about it, drinking water thins your blood and lowers your blood pressure. So, if your BP is relieved with magnesium the thirst mechanism is quieted down.

Very interesting.

Ah. So. I wonder if that also means that the thirsty among us are either high BP people or borderline high BP people. I know I was always 'borderline' anytime I couldn't avoid getting that dang torture device known as a BP sleeve on me.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #165
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Delurking.....

Magnesium also draws and holds water in the body (hydrophilic)which is why it is so effective as a stool softener.

It probably keeps you from releasing as much water thereby reducing the thirst response.

Relurking....
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:00 PM   #166
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Delurking.....

Magnesium also draws and holds water in the body (hydrophilic)which is why it is so effective as a stool softener.

It probably keeps you from releasing as much water thereby reducing the thirst response.

Relurking....
heh delurking.

It is a hall of mirrors. Water retention would cause a bump on the scale but reduced water consumption would level it back out.

We must stop discussing it or we will meet ourselves coming out of the restroom.

Last edited by reddarin; 10-03-2012 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #167
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We must stop discussing it or we will meet ourselves coming out of the restroom.
OH how I laughed over that one!!!!

I remember years ago a doctor told me to stop drinking water because my sodium levels were so low, and water just flushed it out of my system.

Re: the BP issue....I have extremely low BP. (and low sodium/potassium,thus supplementation)

Interesting.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:28 PM   #168
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Now that is a very interesting observation Buffy!

In fact, I have increased my magnesium dose in the last few weeks and that coincides with my dramatic decrease in thirst! Wow!

I wonder how magnesium has that effect. I think it might have something to do with the way it relaxes the walls of blood veins which helps with BP. If you think about it, drinking water thins your blood and lowers your blood pressure. So, if your BP is relieved with magnesium the thirst mechanism is quieted down.

Very interesting.

Ah. So. I wonder if that also means that the thirsty among us are either high BP people or borderline high BP people. I know I was always 'borderline' anytime I couldn't avoid getting that dang torture device known as a BP sleeve on me.

De-lurking to say that drinking water doesn't thin the blood. It will flush out electrolyes, but extra water is stored in the intracellular tissue, not in the blood stream.

Last edited by drjlocarb; 10-03-2012 at 02:29 PM..
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:02 PM   #169
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De-lurking to say that drinking water doesn't thin the blood. It will flush out electrolyes, but extra water is stored in the intracellular tissue, not in the blood stream.
In fact, there are studies that show drinking lots of water results in *higher* blood pressure.

Very strange indeed.

And counter-intuitive to me at least.

Thanks for the great heads-up and correction
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #170
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Right you are!

But...there is always a but...the BP goes up to increase the filtration rate in the kidney which increases the out flow of fluids from the body. The muscles in the vessels contract to increase the pressure in the veins and arteries. There is not more fluid in the balloon, there is more pressure on the balloon to expel the fluids faster.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:28 PM   #171
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Food Log

Log and numbers for today.

Calories: 1,491
Fat: 125
Pro: 79
Car: 17

74/22/4

Breakfast: CO & coffee.
Lunch: Nice salad with chicken, tomatoes, cheese, lettuce and pickles on the side. I love salad with no dressing. Can't stand dressing.
Supper: HWC float, pork skins.
Snack: T of CO and HWC float.

I am very happy with today's numbers. Especially compared to yesterday.
Attached Images
File Type: png graph_10032012.png (20.2 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg log_10032012.jpg (33.0 KB, 1 views)

Last edited by reddarin; 10-03-2012 at 04:29 PM.. Reason: Oops forgot to attach log and graph
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:39 PM   #172
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Right you are!

But...there is always a but...the BP goes up to increase the filtration rate in the kidney which increases the out flow of fluids from the body. The muscles in the vessels contract to increase the pressure in the veins and arteries. There is not more fluid in the balloon, there is more pressure on the balloon to expel the fluids faster.
It is like Dear Prudence
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:12 PM   #173
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This is what I had today, I think I am done, but if needed, might add a little fatty snack later. This is a pretty typical day for me.


Breakfast
Coconut Oil, 2 tbsp
Regular Coffee, 4 cup (8 fl oz)

Lunch
Butter, salted, 1 tbsp
Cream Cheese, 1 oz
Tilapia, 5.5 oz

Dinner
Fish, Swai Fillet, 4.25 oz
Butter, salted, 1 tbsp
Avocados, California (Haas), 0.5 fruit without skin and seeds

Snack
Pecans, 5 grams
Cocoa, dry powder, unsweetened, 2 tbsp
Butter, salted, 0.33
2 tbsp Cream Cheese,
Sour Cream, 2 tbsp
Heavy Whipping Cream, 2 tbsp
A&W Root Beer, Diet, 1 serving

My totals today Calories 1,368, Fat 124, carbs 18, protein 61, fiber 10
My day's Values Proteins, 17%, Carbohydrates, 5.1%, Fats, 77.9%
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:28 PM   #174
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Log and numbers for today.

Calories: 1,491
Fat: 125
Pro: 79
Car: 17

74/22/4

Breakfast: CO & coffee.
Lunch: Nice salad with chicken, tomatoes, cheese, lettuce and pickles on the side. I love salad with no dressing. Can't stand dressing.
Supper: HWC float, pork skins.
Snack: T of CO and HWC float.

I am very happy with today's numbers. Especially compared to yesterday.
Looks great Red, but aren't your calories a little low for your usual day? I know that is just how it falls some days, some lower, some higher. I think that is actually better than trying to hit exact same numbers each day.

Salad with no dressing, you and your hatred of mayo has turned you into a dry ole salad eater I will say, when we visited that fancy smancy olive oil and vinegar store in Santa Fe, they showed us some combos that would make absolutely delicious vinegar and oil dressings. Dang, I wish I could have flown with those. Asked about shipping but it is too darn high when I know we have those stores in the Dallas area, I just need to find the time to get out to them.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:38 PM   #175
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Looks great Red, but aren't your calories a little low for your usual day? I know that is just how it falls some days, some lower, some higher. I think that is actually better than trying to hit exact same numbers each day.

Salad with no dressing, you and your hatred of mayo has turned you into a dry ole salad eater I will say, when we visited that fancy smancy olive oil and vinegar store in Santa Fe, they showed us some combos that would make absolutely delicious vinegar and oil dressings. Dang, I wish I could have flown with those. Asked about shipping but it is too darn high when I know we have those stores in the Dallas area, I just need to find the time to get out to them.
Not super duper low. The BMR thingie has 1544 as 'extreme' and 1723 as normal loss. But I was very interested in making up for some of yesterday's overindulgence and I was careful to get my protein above the minimum.

That last T of CO was actually a T of CO that I just drank down lol. Otherwise I could have ended the day in the 1300s.

I've been wanting to try that out - ending the day with a T of CO. Since it causes ketone production it seems like it would be a great thing to eat at the very last of the eating day. Going to bed with ketones revved up from CO.

I tell you what though, I dang sure felt the energy burst. I still feel it and it was almost 2 hours ago.

Omm Nom Nom! Salad with no dressing. Love it! I always have. People that like dressing are always flabbergasted lol but really, dressing just cover up the flavors of the stuff in the salad. So tasty. But you are right about the origins of it - mayo yuk

I can't stand vinegar either if I can taste it like a vinegar and oil dressing. Picky defines me lol

=)
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:41 PM   #176
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Ok gang, went grocery shopping today. Sure doing more of that now that I am into this WOE, we were eating out a lot more before.

I look through the ads if I have the time, find all the great specials that I want, at all the stores, then circle them in red marker and off I go to Walmart. They will match all specials I finally found out when I came out from under the rock I had been living under. Oh, fine, it was a fairly nice rock, but the view was very obstructed.

So, I got avocados at 50 cents each, I got cans of albacore tuna for a buck each, I got Philly Cream cheese for 10 for $10, whoo hoo, that was a great savings as I go through a lot of that and wow, has it gotten high. I picked up a fillet of swai fish to try, sure glad I just picked up one, really didn't care for it like I do tilapia. Then I finally broke down and bought a brisket at the regular walmart price. Brisket used to be on sale on and off all summer long but this year, only saw a couple of deals at Kroger where it was $10 off a whole brisket if you spent so many dollars. I cut them up into like 4 pieces, seal a meal 3 of them and slow cook the other one. I love the way the fat on top gets so crispy. Also picked up 3 lbs of bacon ends and pieces, have never bought it that way before but thought I would give it a try, definitely cheaper. HWC, sour cream, lettuce, think that was about it. Looked at the mayo, Hellman's has a Olive oil one, what a joke, it does have a "little" OO in it, so thus the claim but I think the main oil was still soy. Got to get on this job of making some and finding a recipe that I like. Picked up a block of Havarti and eggs, got 2 cartons of eggs, one organic and one free range but it didn't say organic. Been comparing eggs to try to find the best tasting ones. Think that was about it. Oh, and I went to World Market and bought 4 different dark chocolate bars to try. Lindt Excellence 85% cocoa, World Market 99% cacao, that one may be beyond dark chocolate, a Ghiradelli Intense Dark Midnight Reverie 86% cacao bar, sounds like a really dark one, right? And, then, another of the one I have already tried and love, the Chocolove Almonds & Sea Salt in Dark Chocolate. Took me a number of years to acquire the taste for very dark chocolate, used to like only milk chocolate.

So, enough rambling on about my shopping.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:42 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
This is what I had today, I think I am done, but if needed, might add a little fatty snack later. This is a pretty typical day for me.


Breakfast
Coconut Oil, 2 tbsp
Regular Coffee, 4 cup (8 fl oz)

Lunch
Butter, salted, 1 tbsp
Cream Cheese, 1 oz
Tilapia, 5.5 oz

Dinner
Fish, Swai Fillet, 4.25 oz
Butter, salted, 1 tbsp
Avocados, California (Haas), 0.5 fruit without skin and seeds

Snack
Pecans, 5 grams
Cocoa, dry powder, unsweetened, 2 tbsp
Butter, salted, 0.33
2 tbsp Cream Cheese,
Sour Cream, 2 tbsp
Heavy Whipping Cream, 2 tbsp
A&W Root Beer, Diet, 1 serving

My totals today Calories 1,368, Fat 124, carbs 18, protein 61, fiber 10
My day's Values Proteins, 17%, Carbohydrates, 5.1%, Fats, 77.9%
Really good numbers Buffy

I believe I'll be having tilapia tomorrow for lunch or dinner. Is it good fried in bacon grease or is that a silly question?
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:43 PM   #178
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lewisville, TX USA
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Stats: Type 2 Diabetic as of 6/1/08
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Start Date: Restart 7/1/2014
Red, you don't even like some of the really good balsamic vinegars? Wow, I can almost just drink some of those, they are so tasty to me.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:10 PM   #179
I'm not fat, I'm fluffy
 
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Location: Brooklyn Ny
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Stats: 230/166/130
WOE: paleo eating
Start Date: Low carb living a few yrs now.. Restart Nov 2010
I'm still stalking you guys! I'm going to try to start on Monday, i'm going to try to foods log also
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:11 PM   #180
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Red, you don't even like some of the really good balsamic vinegars? Wow, I can almost just drink some of those, they are so tasty to me.
Ugh!

The problem I have with vinegar is the smell. I have a normal sized nose, whatever that is, I think, but I have a gigantic smelling apparatus. And let me tell you what, that is a curse.

The only perfume I could stand my xGF to wear was Juicy. There are a few others but that one was the best I think. And Poison. And I was picky about what shampoo/conditioner she used too. Generally, I'm a pain in the you know what but she accommodated me heh cause she liked me snuggling up more than she liked smelly shampoos and junk.

I mean, I told her the problem. My solution, if she was dead set on a particular hair product that I couldn't stand, was to keep me as close as possible and my sniffer as far away from her hair as possible.
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