High Fat 80/15/5 - October Version

[jillybean720]

Good morning! You guys are a chatty, fast-moving group. I LOVE it!

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Today is my birthday gang.

Good for you for not making food a central part of your birthday. That's tough to do in today's society!

Originally Posted by Jbinme

I've been over 80% fat every day this week. Is that ok?
When you get to maintenance are you going to change anything?
Do you think this woe is ok forever?

Yes, no, and yes I think higher fat is fine, but maybe others can offer better opinions than my "I think." For maintenance, I might be able to take more liberties with calories, but I don't plan to add in more carbs. I absolutely 110% believe this WOE is fine forever. Certain cultures used to live this way for generations. It's only because of today's skewed dietary guidance (like that stupid pyramid with carbs being the biggest piece at the base and the scare tactics of the dangers of eating fat) that we even second guess this WOE at all. Eating this way, I have AMAZING cholesterol numbers, weigh less, have no glucose/insulin issues, don't get the mid-afternoon overwhelming urge to take a nap...I can't think of a reason, other than sheer convenience in the world in which we live (although, honestly, I've yet to find a single restaurant where I can't find something delicious to fit in my plan), this wouldn't be the right path to stay on.

[Kerry]

I love the apple computers! but im such an anderoid fan!

[aeatinger]

Happy Birthday Buffy! And Janette- I've been reading about the JUDD- very interesting. I wonder if that would do anything for me? Might be easier to do on my travels b/c it's less to think about?

[Jbinme]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Janette, Red has a spreadsheet where he can figure your macros for you. And, there are calculators online that help you figure your calorie needs to maintain and then to lose. It depends on how tall you are, my low end of protein needs are 59, I am 5'6". Very important part of the equation so you want to make sure that is right. And yes on the carbs, most of us shoot for 20 or less, the lower the better it seems for most, but some can even tolerate more and lose. That part depends on how insulin resistant your body is. So, you are right where you want to be on the carbs.

But, you are at your goal weight, so you are just wanting to maintain, right?

Thanks Buffy. I'm 5'3.
I wouldn't mind losing a little more but I'm fine staying where I'm at.

[Jbinme]

Originally Posted by aeatinger

Happy Birthday Buffy! And Janette- I've been reading about the JUDD- very interesting. I wonder if that would do anything for me? Might be easier to do on my travels b/c it's less to think about?

I think JUDDD would work great for you. I would definatly recommend giving it a try.

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by jillybean720

Good morning! You guys are a chatty, fast-moving group. I LOVE it!


Good for you for not making food a central part of your birthday. That's tough to do in today's society!

Yes, no, and yes I think higher fat is fine, but maybe others can offer better opinions than my "I think." For maintenance, I might be able to take more liberties with calories, but I don't plan to add in more carbs. I absolutely 110% believe this WOE is fine forever. Certain cultures used to live this way for generations. It's only because of today's skewed dietary guidance (like that stupid pyramid with carbs being the biggest piece at the base and the scare tactics of the dangers of eating fat) that we even second guess this WOE at all. Eating this way, I have AMAZING cholesterol numbers, weigh less, have no glucose/insulin issues, don't get the mid-afternoon overwhelming urge to take a nap...I can't think of a reason, other than sheer convenience in the world in which we live (although, honestly, I've yet to find a single restaurant where I can't find something delicious to fit in my plan), this wouldn't be the right path to stay on.

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by aeatinger

Happy Birthday Buffy! And Janette- I've been reading about the JUDD- very interesting. I wonder if that would do anything for me? Might be easier to do on my travels b/c it's less to think about?

Whoops, forgot to chime in here.

I recently was on a 4 day trip, came home with a slight loss. I paid no attention to calories, just ate enough to be sure I was satisfied and not tempted to eat something carby. I ate in several types of restaurants, breakfast one morning at a bakery but they were nice enough to make scrambled eggs and bacon for me b/c they did offer quiche. I had an omelet one morning, asked to make sure they did not put anything in it besides eggs, veggies, cheese and ham. One day I turned around and had bacon and eggs for lunch just b/c there were no other LC choices. I ordered meat without any bread, cheese on it if it were a buger, LC veggies and or salad. Had a few nuts along the way and I took along a chocolove dark chocolate/roasted almong, sea salt bar. Before bed, to reward myself for being faithful to my WOE, I allowed myself 1-4 squares of that. I was very proud of myself for sticking to it and probably ate higher calories than at home but I was determined not to let myself get hungry. As long as you are in a restaurant, you can make it work pretty easily. When it is hard is if you are in someone's home or at a meeting where they order in food. In that case, I would just push around my food and then sneak off and have a LC shake or something like an atkins bar or quest bar. Not my first choice but better than carbs. If they have butter on the table, for everyone's bread, take a hunk of butter and just eat the darn thing I also took along a small container of CO to eat at the hotel to keep my fat up and to satisfy hunger.

[theLossgirl]

Can't keep up with this thread, lol! Missed last evening due to being at my SIL's 50th birthday (she's Mr. Lossgirl's twin sister!)

Everyone is doing so well. Jillybean, your baby is so adorable!

Did great at the party. Didn't go off plan at all.

Today my ratios are a little off and calories seem low. But I am eating so much fat that I think it just keeps me so full. I'll throw in some bacon and/or cream cheese clouds if I need more snacks.

Numbers today:

956 Calories
84.8% Fat
13.2% Protein
2% Carbs

[theLossgirl]

Oh yeah, and I've never had problems with leg cramps before but the last two nights I've been awakened by cramps in one of my calves. I'm pretty sure I'm supplementing adequately by now, and I do stay hydrated. So, wassup with that?!

[Buffy45]

My leg cramps have kind of come and go too Deborah. Try all the remedies we have mentioned, the last 2 nights, I have actually eaten probably 1/2 teaspoon of salt before I go to bed, haven't had them for 2 nights now. And, I upped by magnesium and sodium just a little via supplements as well. Boy, they are painful and when you have enough of them, then your legs hurt all day.

[portcop01]

to you Buffy,hope its all you dreamed,you are such a great asset to this thread,thank you.

[Patlaf]

Buffy Hope you're having a super day. Today is our wedding anniversary and when DH suggested going out to eat I grabbed my purse and ran to the car. We went to our favorite restaurant and I had roast suckling pig. It was delicious, but we finished lunch four hours ago and I still feel like a stuffed piglet. I don't think I'll have any supper tonight.

Pat

[zay]

Happy Birthday Buffy!!

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by theLossgirl

Oh yeah, and I've never had problems with leg cramps before but the last two nights I've been awakened by cramps in one of my calves. I'm pretty sure I'm supplementing adequately by now, and I do stay hydrated. So, wassup with that?!

Salt depletion perhaps?

I greatly increased my salt intake yesterday and my calf quit hurting and I slept like a rock last night despite the bad storms that rolled through here. I have been having really awful cramps the last several days. I did have a cramp right when I got up, and it was bad but not as bad as before and it went away pretty quick when I walked it off.

Originally Posted by reddarin

How much salt is enough salt?

That is a very interesting question for LC'rs. You need an adequate intake of sodium (distinct from table salt which is sodium-chloride) and on location 2654 of the A&S of LC, Dr. Phinney describes the amount at 5 grams.

[edit: this is from a quick search on Google] Table salt is sodium plus chloride so to actually get 1 gram of sodium you need 2.5 grams of table salt.

1 teaspoon of table salt weighs about 6.6g. Since you need 5g of sodium that means 2.5 x 5 = ~12 which is equivalent to 2 teaspoons of table salt. Wow.

That is a lot of table salt![/end google information]

It is very important to get adequate salt in because LC eating results in results in sodium depletion. If you aren't getting enough salt in your woe then the body will dump potassium to save the salt supply that you are arrogantly shorting your body of. *That* results in all sorts of nasty consequences, including cramps, all the way up to irregular heart rhythm!

On the by and by that is very interesting for another reason. The blog I referred to early about blood glucose is written by a guy, Peter, that follows his own modified version of The Optimal Diet. In one of the articles I was reading through he stated that VLC/LC invariably results in irregular heart rhythm and he stated it as a given it is gonna happen. Well that was the first I'd heard of it but I think Phinney's remarks on the importance of not doing a low sodium by default LC refutes Peter's assertion thoroughly. No?

IF you have a health condition then of course take it into consideration. Don't end up in the ER over a super salty slice of tomato.

There is an ancillary question of how much is too much but I haven't read far enough yet to see if Phinney addresses that with regards to the LC woe/wol.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Today is my birthday gang.

Yay Birthday Girl!!!





Happy Birthday Buffy!

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Patlaf

Today is our wedding anniversary and when DH suggested going out to eat I grabbed my purse and ran to the car.

lol

Happy Anniversary Pat!!

[Buffy45]

Happy Anniversary Pat! Good for you for eating a pig, like a pig on your birthday, LOL.

I used to love to go out to eat, but after traveling for work for 10 years, it ceased to be such a big deal to me.

Just had a nice brunch of bacon and eggs.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Jbinme

I am doing HF/LC for maintenance. I lost 35lbs with atkins, 15lbs with JUDDD to reach goal and maintained with JUDDD for a few months. I combined LC/HF and JUDDD for a little while and felt great at first but then I started having sleeping problems, anxiety, mood swings. So I decided to give up one. Kept juddding but added carbs. Did fine for a little while. Then the carb addict reared it's head and i went crazy. Gain weight, gums swollen, carb coma in about a week.
So now I've decided to stop juddding and just eat LC/HF. Started last Monday at 138. Dropped back down to 130 by Friday. Feel great! Cravings are ling gone.

So I have a few questions if that's ok?
I've been over 80% fat every day this week. Is that ok?
When you get to maintenance are you going to change anything?
Do you think this woe is ok forever?

Hi Janette and welcome

#1 - 80% fat.

Yes but. The important thing is to get your protein grams in and then strive for high fat. Protein protects your lean body mass and that is very important. Especially, I think, in maintenance. For maintenance, I'd eat as much protein as I could and still keep fat a minimum of 65% with calories reasonable. With very low carbs you will still keep protein at 30% or less which is good.

#2 - Maintenance. Increase calories for sure to stop the weight loss. Personally, I'll probably loosen up a little bit on the macro percentages to maintain 66%+ fat, because Phinney defines NK (nutritional ketosis) range as 65%-85%, and I'll have more LC 'cheat' food like 90% chocolate bars and try out some of the LC recipes around here. I also plan to continue food logging for an indeterminate period of time too.

#3 - WOE. Yes! And being keto-adapted is such a wonderful state of being it is hard to imagine stopping for any reason. I cannot eat wheat so that probably gives me a different perspective on things. If you haven't read Wheat Belly you should.

[reddarin]

You are the avatar butterfly Deborah heh

Mr. tLG is a strapping fellow and ya'll look great together

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Jbinme

I've been trying to get around 50g protein. Somedays it's been a little higher and some days a little lower. Does that sound about right?
I keep carbs 20g or less. Usually way less.

It is really pretty low for your weight especially since you do less than that some days.

The combined formula range is 47 to 106 grams. However, you are at goal so bumping your protein up is probably the best course of action. In your position I'd see how the median works, 75g, and tweak up or down a little from there.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Thanks Janette!
I have a little savings fund going for my next computer. Don't need one yet but when I do, I want to go with Apple next time and they are more expensive than PC's but since I now use an Iphone and and Ipad, I am ready to go all Apple.

Apple isn't my personal choice but there are a ton of very happy Apple users and Apple doesn't tend to have the kind of problems that PCs have

You might fill up your fund tonight at the investment house.

[Jbinme]

Thanks Red!

Very helpful. It won't be hard for me to keep the carbs low. There are so many low carb foods I love. I do think I need to start eating more protein. It makes me nervous though because Im not sure what's enough or what's too much. But that's what I'm going to work on now.
It's amazing how fast I recovered from that carb binge and how great I feel. I'll take fat over carbs everday!

[Jbinme]

Is there an easy way to figure out how many grams of protein I should eat every day?

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Jbinme

Is there an easy way to figure out how many grams of protein I should eat every day?

Zap back to the intro post I made and there are 3 formulas for calculating daily protein grams.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ot...r-version.html

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Jbinme

Thanks Red!

Very helpful. It won't be hard for me to keep the carbs low. There are so many low carb foods I love. I do think I need to start eating more protein. It makes me nervous though because Im not sure what's enough or what's too much. But that's what I'm going to work on now.
It's amazing how fast I recovered from that carb binge and how great I feel. I'll take fat over carbs everday!

Really that is the $64,000 question Janette and there is a lot of different opinions.

The US RDI (or RDA?) is about 40g! Wow! I wonder if they got that from a North Korean table on protein? North Koreans have been so protein starved, and nutritionally starved, over the last 60 years that they are something like an average of 6" shorter than their South Korean counterparts!

I am inclined to think that the .8 number in one of the formulas from the intro post is the bare minimum for daily protein intake.

For maximum...

There doesn't appear to be a maximum for a healthy person eating normally. I don't mean to say that gorging on protein every day is good for you or won't cause problems but 2g/kg of body weight is not dangerous and very hard to do anyway.

As far as weight maintenance goes it is whatever level you can eat at and maintain. Just add 5g a week till you see a steady gain for a few days then back off to find your highest sustainable level I reckon.

On an ongoing basis, even while trying to lose weight, an occasional day of very high protein isn't going to hurt you in the long run for weight loss I think.

[Jbinme]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Zap back to the intro post I made and there are 3 formulas for calculating daily protein grams.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ot...r-version.html

Thanks! I got it.

[Jbinme]

47-106g protein? Quite the range to play with.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

It depends on how tall you are, my low end of protein needs are 59, I am 5'6". Very important part of the equation so you want to make sure that is right.

What a joyous day...the day decades later that our beloved Buffy was born! Happy Happy Birthday Buffy.

Doing great on the loss!! Woo hoo

OK...you wrote that you are 5'6" tall and your low end protein needs are 59. I am so confused. I am 5' 5-3/4" tall (1/4" less than you) and Red told me that my low end protein needs are 47!!! That is a HUGE difference for 1/4" of height.

Will someone AGAIN tell me what calculations you are using for protein needs. I have done all the "online" ones recommended. The Dr. whatever his name one, the lean body mass calculation, the desired weight one, and the Phinney/Volek one. All are different numbers for me. I am very confused at this point, and this week I have been out of ketosis and today was .1 which is the lowest I've been since testing in early September. My weight has gone up a bit, measurements today were the ones that went down last week went back up this week, and the ones that went up last week went back down. Basically a "wash". Weight up .4#. Not bad, but it's still going in the wrong direction.

[reddarin]

Shelley!

Drj!

I haven't forgotten about you guys and the glucose/ketosis phenomenon thing. I posted a question about it (generically) on Dr. Eades' blog.

I'm listening to a Jimmy Moore podcast about protein right now. His guest is Dr. Layman. His field of study is protein and he has some very interesting things to say about it. His position on daily intake is quite a bit higher than what we are doing here and higher than what they are doing in the other NK thread too.

Google 'atlcx-24-layman-protein'.

I haven't finished listening yet but some of the things he's said made me think of you two.

What I think you guys should try is to make your macros x/x/5 for a few days and see how your glucose responds and how your ketosis levels react. Strive to do 30g of protein at each meal for 3 meals a day. That is very high for you, Shelley, I know.

The macro composition is not so important for this experiment other than VLC. I doubt either of you could eat enough calories to get to 80% fat so don't worry about that. The idea is to see how your ketones and glucose reacts to a bit higher protein. You'd still try to eat as much fat as possible but as a ratio it wouldn't be important for this.

What is important is eating the 30g of protein at each meal. So don't load up at breakfast and skip or skimp on the other two meals.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Jbinme

47-106g protein? Quite the range to play with.

lol I know. Such a fuzzy area for LC. Best to start high and work your way down really.

I started low-ish but I've been trying to bump mine up a little for the last week or so.