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Old 10-11-2012, 06:06 PM   #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post

I happen to love boiled chicken with butter on it and lots of salt, so perfect food for us.
Buffy, that sounds so simple and good! Thanks for the idea. I like boiled chicken too.
So, the new book you received. I'm curious as to if has any new info. I read reviews sounds like it simplifies all the science for the laymen to understand.

Have a good night all 5am comes fast!
Gonna watch a little debating...hopefully it bores me so I can sleep!
(((hug)))
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:07 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by zay View Post
Looks good!

Red likes jalape˝os. Do you eat them raw or pickled?
Fresh but always cooked with whatever I'm having. I've been on a jalapeno kick for months now with no end in sight!

They were on sale for 5 pounds for a $1 so I've had to drastically up my intake this week lol
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:08 PM   #933
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Same here! Night ya'll
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:09 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
I used ground pork. Right now times are tough, and ground pork is nice and fatty, and its a lot cheaper then ground beef. (I can get the pork sometimes for 2$ a pound!)
and instead of making it 6 servings we only made it 4 servings. I added the whole recepie on ****** then put all the nutrition in a custom food, then i made a serving .25

we are going to have it for dinner again tomorrow and I honestly can not wait, its so nice and spicy! makes me wanna shake a my rump lol
I like thrifty! Smart girl!
Ground pork is always more expensive here. I buy it for a couple of dishes that I like to use it in. Definitely a special thing.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:11 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Fresh but always cooked with whatever I'm having. I've been on a jalapeno kick for months now with no end in sight!

They were on sale for 5 pounds for a $1 so I've had to drastically up my intake this week lol
Oh wow...thats a good deal!
My son planted sooo many of them in our garden and did not eat them. They were frozen last night...we had a deep freeze. Wonder I can salvage them.

OK, enough...good night See ya tomorrow you all!
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:30 PM   #936
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Hi to all, hope your day was great. So great to hear everyone's good news!

Deborah, I love your pic! And giggled and read what you posted that Fabio said, I love him. What a hoot!

Welcome Diana! I missed a few posts, and forgot to go back and say HI!

Pat, we all have days that something out of the blue triggers us; don't let it get you down. Resisting the ice cream was good. I find I can hardly eat at times after anything coconut/cream cheese. It's great to stop a weak moment about to happen.

Kerry, your numbers are great, I agree with the ground pork, it's good for many things. I make meatballs with it, and DH loves them. Add crumbled bacon to the ground pork and it's magic!

Shelly, you sound like you feel better. I hope so. I am not meaning to starve, upped the fat today, but I have always been one that loses all appetite when stressed. So I am taking tomorrow off, it's a Football Weekend! Big game to get on the road to, and while there will be challenges, it's the fastest way to get the bad stress out.

Buffy, get rest, sounds like the front you are getting missed us down here, but we have excessive pollen counts and marsh burning is putting out smoke everywhere. there should be a law! I love new skillets, cast iron is my current favorite. Makes the best bacon! thanks for the tip about Kroger, will head there tomorrow before leaving town!

drj, wow you are on a mission for answers! I hear the frustration, been there myself. My 18 month stall, recently really hit hard - I just could not figure it out. I am bouncing up and down two lbs, but it's okay, many posted the quote it may take 6 months to get my body to agree to let go on this WOE - so I am fine with being full, sleeping well again, and not OC about eating.

Red - you are doing so great, keep it up! Do you like the Hatch peppers? We love to clean them up inside and put cream cheese and bacon then fry in pan. Any peppers for that matter! They are great with ground pork, cheese, little bit of LC tomato sauce, and broiled too!

PC - doctors, in general, do not understand much about nutrition, unless they are a specialist. They have a set of protocols, and well, it is what it is! You go girl! You are on a roll! Keep it up.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:21 PM   #937
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:45 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
I understand physiological insulin resistance and why it happens. But....there is that but again...

The problem is Peter (Hyperlipid) is not trying to lose weight and his HbA1c is in normal range. My HbA1c was not and my fb/g was nearing the 130 danger range. I think he is doing a disservice to people saying high fb/g is OK. High b/g means insulin is probably high and that will inhibit lypolisis.

It is MY belief that the high fb/g is a sign that my body is in a fully gluconeo state and is resisting ketogenesis and this is why I am not losing weight. The blood/glucose strips are cheaper and this may help other track without having to use the meters to check ketones every day. If the muscles are using ketones during the day, then the blood glucose shouldn't rise in the morning because these tissues are becoming insulin resistant. They should be insulin resistant 24/7 because they have adapted to using ketones 24/7.

I have also found I cannot get to NK b/k levels and the higher my fb/g, the lower my fb/k. I think this is a key piece of info for myself, Shelley, and other who have been stalled on LC for years and for those who are not losing on a NK diet.
Hi...I'm finding that the more I test, the more I agree that we are in the same boat. My fasting B/G was 120 yesterday with no reason for it. My last ketone test was .3 (out of ketosis) and that was even taking the extra CO as my last food before bed.

This morning I decided not to test myself until after breakfast, and didn't want to waste a ketone strip as they are pricey, so just did the glucose. So, my post prandial meal of bacon and eggs with butter, coffee with HWC and MCT oil gave me a 1-1.5 hour post prandial reading of 102. Still way higher than I would like, especially after such a high fat, good protein, very very low carb meal.

I'm sticking with the program though and am determined to see if things change. I should do the post prandial testing for 1 and again at 2 hours after EACH meal, but so far I haven't been inclined to do so many pricks. I have plenty of glucose strips (still have about 120 of them!).

Any recommendations on when/how to test. I'm not diabetic, but did have a HA1c test done in April and it was 5.8 which is not great, but not bad for a diabetic....but I've always been told I'm not diabetic. My highest readings have been since getting the meter and testing myself! Yikes. Maybe I need to toss out the meter and go back to my old ways!!! no no no please no!!!!
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:52 PM   #939
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Hi Everyone



I got my strips and got a 1.2 at 7PM (before eating dinner).

I will check tomorrow morning as well.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:55 PM   #940
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OK...just watched the VP debate and then logged in the rest of my food for the day. Another "good day", but too late to add in the TBSP of CO.

Calories 1276
Fat 118.3 (81%)
Protein 53.1 (17%) a little high
Carb total 6.8% (2) 5.0 total

I'm really impressed with the macros and foods that everyone is eating. Great going everyone!!!!! Love reading the reports as you finish the daily logs.

Major Red....you'd better be careful or you're going to leap past the 180's and head to the 170's!!!!
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:30 PM   #941
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80/15/5 versus NK Thread

Quote:
The end point is the same - nutritional ketosis.

But the implementation is very different. That thread approaches it by way of absolute protein grams (although they use ranges too) *and* carb grams. And they promote low calorie goals. And they do not endorse high fat.

This thread approaches it with a protein range and high fat with minimal carbs. So, the way we do it, get your protein in, then make up the rest of your calories in fat as much as possible. Eat as few carbs as possible. Know your calorie goals but low calorie is not the start point or even a goal, just something to look at after protein grams and macro %s.

Here: get your fat up.

There: get your calories down.
I'm new to both threads and still trying to get this figured out.

I started out with a maximum number of calories for the weight loss I wanted based on my current weight and height (1500-1600 calories/day). Then I determined the minimum amount of protein I would need (50-60 grams/day). I know I don't need to eat any carbs, but if I keep total carbs below 20, I can still get my fat percentage up above 80% while meeting the calorie and protein ranges above.

As long as I keep losing, I won't be tempted to lower calories; but if I stall (as I have before while low-carbing), I would sure consider lowering calories, but not below 1200, and I would probably lower carbs and protein a bit as well, in order to keep my fat percentage above 75%

Here is an average of my first four days of HFLC:
1600 cals
10.2 total carbs
5.5 net carbs
52.8 protein g
147.6 fat g
83.0% fat

Hopefully, this will keep working for me (i.e., keep me in ketosis and losing at some reasonable rate) and I won't need to consider cutting calories until I've lost a bunch.

It's only been three days, but I'm getting to eat plenty of enjoyable food, so it feels sustainable.
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Last edited by dianajlane; 10-11-2012 at 09:33 PM.. Reason: correct typo
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:57 AM   #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
Hi...I'm finding that the more I test, the more I agree that we are in the same boat. My fasting B/G was 120 yesterday with no reason for it. My last ketone test was .3 (out of ketosis) and that was even taking the extra CO as my last food before bed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
I understand physiological insulin resistance and why it happens. But....there is that but again...
Jog my memory, have either of you seen a doctor about the high BG? What did they say if you did? Aren't these high readings dangerous? Or, probably a better question, what is considered a dangerous range and is it age/sex/weight related?
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:02 AM   #943
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My son planted sooo many of them in our garden and did not eat them. They were frozen last night...we had a deep freeze. Wonder I can salvage them.
They will be good in dishes where a firm texture is not important. When I froze some one time I found that the way I usually eat them, which is fried up with other stuff, they weren't good - too squishy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61 View Post
Red - you are doing so great, keep it up! Do you like the Hatch peppers? We love to clean them up inside and put cream cheese and bacon then fry in pan. Any peppers for that matter! They are great with ground pork, cheese, little bit of LC tomato sauce, and broiled too!
Actually I tried Hatch a few months ago and I did like them but they are so huge I couldn't figure out how to incorporate them into my menus. I'm the only pepper eater around here.

But that recipe sounds really delicious
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:11 AM   #944
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Originally Posted by dianajlane View Post
I'm new to both threads and still trying to get this figured out.

I started out with a maximum number of calories for the weight loss I wanted based on my current weight and height (1500-1600 calories/day). Then I determined the minimum amount of protein I would need (50-60 grams/day). I know I don't need to eat any carbs, but if I keep total carbs below 20, I can still get my fat percentage up above 80% while meeting the calorie and protein ranges above.

As long as I keep losing, I won't be tempted to lower calories; but if I stall (as I have before while low-carbing), I would sure consider lowering calories, but not below 1200, and I would probably lower carbs and protein a bit as well, in order to keep my fat percentage above 75%

Here is an average of my first four days of HFLC:
1600 cals
10.2 total carbs
5.5 net carbs
52.8 protein g
147.6 fat g
83.0% fat

Hopefully, this will keep working for me (i.e., keep me in ketosis and losing at some reasonable rate) and I won't need to consider cutting calories until I've lost a bunch.

It's only been three days, but I'm getting to eat plenty of enjoyable food, so it feels sustainable.
Sounds like you've got a good handle on things Diana

But! Be leary of lowering protein to achieve a particular fat macro %. Protein protects your lean body mass. Especially if you are not doing light resistance exercises.

Phinney defines the NK range for fat% as 65-85. So experiment with <75% fat before sacrificing protein.

Also, if protein is getting in the way you might be able to keep protein up and get fat up by avoiding lean protein sources in favor of fatty protein. This works pretty good if your calorie range isn't too low.

Or chose very lean protein, like shrimp, and then eat good non-PUFA fats to %. This works really well if your calorie range is moderate to low. You can google for 'lean protein sources' and get some good hits on low cal protein.

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Old 10-12-2012, 05:18 AM   #945
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To clarify a bit for the lurkers.

If your goal calorie range is 1700 and that is what the SAD calculators say should result in weight loss then the first thing I'd tweak is fat% upwards to try to get in the high 70%s to 85% keeping protein protected - get your protein grams in.

Once you've done that for a while and are still stalled then I'd pare back calories a little at a time. Drop some calories and maintain to see how the scale *and* tape measure responds.

In this scenario, where you are in the high 70%s or in the 80%s the only way to cut calories is to trim fat back so you are going to go from 78% fat to 75% fat for example to trimp 100-150 cals. Or 75% fat to 71% fat to trim the 100-150 cals.

A little fat goes a long way since fat is 9 calories a gram. Protein is only 4g a calorie.

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Old 10-12-2012, 05:34 AM   #946
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weigh-in 10122012

Weigh-in this morning ... ... ... 188.3!

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Old 10-12-2012, 05:45 AM   #947
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Shelly I don't like those BG machines mine at home always read 112-120 but at Dr.yesterday it was 80. So that tells me not to trust the machines.waste of time and money. I hear lot of that around here.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:52 AM   #948
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Shelly I don't like those BG machines mine at home always read 112-120 but at Dr.yesterday it was 80. So that tells me not to trust the machines.waste of time and money. I hear lot of that around here.
Being a sane person, I avoid doctors like the plague. And, just on the by and by, hospitals are *always* zombie central when the infection reaches critical mass.

What did they use to test it PC? A blood sample or do they have a commercial grade BG meter?
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:57 AM   #949
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Weigh-in this morning ... ... ... 188.3!

WOW! Just....WOW!
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:01 AM   #950
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I know right??

The weight tables show 165ish as the median weight for a large frame 6 foot tall man. I wonder if that is what my body thinks too? Or maybe I overestimate my frame size?
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:14 AM   #951
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I know right??

The weight tables show 165ish as the median weight for a large frame 6 foot tall man. I wonder if that is what my body thinks too? Or maybe I overestimate my frame size?
I'm not sure. Mr. Lossgirl is about 5'10" and is probably close to 175 now (he's been slacking on his low carb). He had gotten down to 170 and was actually looking pretty trim. 165 is probably about his ideal. He has a medium large frame I'd guess.

So what I'm trying to say, lol, is that you've got a couple of inches on him (in height), so 165 sounds low. I STILL haven't seen a picture, but you seem to be pretty happy with how things are looking now. And you should be! All your hard work is paying off!
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:27 AM   #952
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I tried to take some pics yesterday but whew they looked terrible or rather I looked terrible lol

I'll try again today or tomorrow.

Actually I'd be ecstatic if it weren't for the fact that my stubborn belly remains in pot state. I have lost around my belly, no doubt, and I am even close to what Terry (I think) said, 37", was the right measurement. It seems like I've lost every ounce of BF from every possible location on my body - arms, legs, butt, face - everywhere but the belly that is coming off at a glacial pace. Well, semi-glacial since ~5 inches in 4 weeks is stunning no doubt.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:38 AM   #953
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Being a sane person, I avoid doctors like the plague. And, just on the by and by, hospitals are *always* zombie central when the infection reaches critical mass.

What did they use to test it PC? A blood sample or do they have a commercial grade BG meter?
Wow on your posted number this morning! it's fun to watch with you! I work in health care and avoid docs too. I like a nurse practitioner for a better visit. And unfortunately, you are dead-on with the infection rates; we are not moving the stats fast enough....now, not giving an excuse....it's an not known reason....we have had to lay off over 500 in the past two years. we are not lean, we are down to the bone lean. On average, the prices you see on your bills are meaningless to most payors, Medicare and Commercials, we are actually paid appx 10 cents to the dollar from Medicaid; 35 cents to the dollar for only the covered hospital items from Medicare, and maybe 45 cents for Commercials. Also, if someone must pay their bill directly, we usually collect overall, 3%. Then the balance billing we collect is about 1%. the current prediction is 1600 hospitals will close in the next three years. We are all barely making the bottom line, month to month. That said, our costs of purchasing supplies and pharmacy for example is through the roof!

So everyone avoiding hospitals is good, unless you have a true emergency; I do not walk in the ED unless it is vital to do so. Get healthy fast...it will get worse. I have talked to at least ten docs who have given their retirement plans out a year in advance, they do not want the politics. Good docs too.

We know our meters are questionable...we are installing electronic, which will be interfaced through lab to electronic record....but these are very expensive.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:40 AM   #954
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I know right??

The weight tables show 165ish as the median weight for a large frame 6 foot tall man. I wonder if that is what my body thinks too? Or maybe I overestimate my frame size?
Have you measured your frame? That's where I realized I was an extra small, and it blew my numbers, down. I rather prefer the small frame numbers.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:42 AM   #955
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Have you measured your frame? That's where I realized I was an extra small, and it blew my numbers, down. I rather prefer the small frame numbers.
!! lol you can measure your frame???

<------ dummy
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:01 AM   #956
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!! lol you can measure your frame???

<------ dummy
Yep, you can and it's very easy and cheap and reliable. Get a flexible tape measure, measure your wrist as close to the wrist bone as you can. I go just between the bone and start of arm. Then find a reliable website just goggle measure frame, and it will show you the charts...some use ankle at leg measurement too. It's usually accurate to our expensive scans that we will take your money and tell you close to the same thing!
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:10 AM   #957
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Yep, you can and it's very easy and cheap and reliable. Get a flexible tape measure, measure your wrist as close to the wrist bone as you can. I go just between the bone and start of arm. Then find a reliable website just goggle measure frame, and it will show you the charts...some use ankle at leg measurement too. It's usually accurate to our expensive scans that we will take your money and tell you close to the same thing!
Well I'll be.

I am thoroughly in the medium frame category. Son of a gun.

Right at 7" just arm-side of the bone.

Wouldn't fat arms affect the measurement? I have lost a lot of weight on my arms and around my wrist as my annoyingly loose watch reveals.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:12 AM   #958
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Wow! Medium framed 6' tall is 157 to 170 so my goal weight is 15 pounds higher than the range.

Although ideal weight calculators put the 'right' weight at 184 and ****** shows normal weight at the very upper end at about 184 too.

Very interesting. Thanks SG!
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:30 AM   #959
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Wow! Medium framed 6' tall is 157 to 170 so my goal weight is 15 pounds higher than the range.

Although ideal weight calculators put the 'right' weight at 184 and ****** shows normal weight at the very upper end at about 184 too.

Very interesting. Thanks SG!
Yes, if you are very overweight, you will store fat at wrists....but if you have lost, as you have, your wrist should be fairly lean. Mine have been between 4 1/2 to 5 1/4 since I was 187, pregnancies and lean times now at 126. so I may not gain in that area, we are all different. But its' cheap and accurate.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:36 AM   #960
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lewisville, TX USA
Posts: 8,904
Gallery: Buffy45
Stats: Type 2 Diabetic as of 6/1/08
WOE: LC/MP/HF
Start Date: Restart 7/1/2014
Good Morning!

First of all, wow again to our fearless leader!!! You really keep us inspired to keep on trucking on Red!!! WTG and KUTGW. I wonder if you hold your weight at 185 and say start walking daily if the belly fat would melt away? But, with your ability to lose weight being so great, you have to have one stubborn thing to annoy you, right? My son who is 6'2" can be lean all over but easily develop a belly on him. Afraid it is something he will always battle.

Diana, wow, you have nailed this right out of the gate, your numbers look great! Good job

SG, that is scary to know about the conditions our health care is in today. What a shame that so few actually pay their entire bill, no wonder the bills are so high, I am sure trying to catch up all the time. I hear of more and more people who are getting staph while in hospitals these days. A dear friend has spent the last 4 months with an open wound, slowly healing from the inside out, due to her incision splitting open 4 days after surgery and she got staph.

Shelley, I am no expert on diabetics although I am diabetic, but your numbers sure look to me like you fall into that range. I would go to an endocrinologist and be tested. The highest A1C I ever had was 5.9 and that was 2 years after being told I was diabetic. I have kept my numbers good and last time I think mine was 5.1 or 5.2. Of course you are totally on the right track as far as your WOE goes but untreated high blood sugar does damage to your organs. During my annual visits to the Dr., my FB kept steadily going up each year from the low 100's to finally hit over 125 one visit, I was never told I had or was developing diabetes either, although I always reported that it was in my family. After the 125 reading, they ordered the other tests and called to say I was. Controlled it for 3-4 months on LC but then gave in and got on the metformin they suggested and dropped 20 lbs effortlessly. When my A1C kept going up just a tiny bit each visit, and I didn't tolerate the full dose of metformin well, they added victoza to my meds. Those meds work well for me to keep my BG where diabetes "experts" want it to be but deep down, I knew, that I would be better off to go back to LC and keep those numbers ever lower. Since Sept. 3rd when I started, I very seldom have a reading over 100 and I know that has to be good for the old organs I am trying to protect.

My advice to you is to get it checked out by another Dr. and seek out an endo. Better safe than sorry and one thing that constant high blood sugar does is make it almost impossible to control your appetite or lose weight.
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