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Old 10-05-2012, 05:34 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post

Of course, there are other variables. Health, age, relative weight to lose, relative overall body mass, red hair.
I always thought my red hair had something to do with weightloss or lack thereof.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:52 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Quick question, then I have to go, will be back later.

When I started my BF was and still is very close to 50% according to my tanita scale, which of course is not a very accurate measure but still one, just the same. Is the old adage true that muscle burns more fat than BF? I assume that is the case. So, would that not really slow down my weight loss as I have a lot of BF?

I am seeing minute drops though on my tanita as far as my BF is concerned so without exercise, it does seem that I am burning some body fat, which of course is my goal.

BBL Gang, behave yourselfs, I know how you get on a Friday night!
The two don't really meet in the way you are describing I think.

Yes, muscles do impact calorie burn but not so much in the way that the mainstream portrays it. That is, exercising doesn't necessarily make your metabolism a super-fat-burning metabolism. One of the doctors, I can't remember which off hand, said that studies have shown that the resting metabolism after exercise is lower than someone that hasn't exercised so it isn't a 1:1 deal.

Trillex, bless her, did an excellent post about it. She's read or is reading the Phinney Performance book.

Too much fat??

Trillex's post seems to support what you are saying but the extra calorie burn is not so much that it is extraordinary. Otherwise exercise *would* burn fat as advertised by the mainstream.

The long and short of it is that muscle consumes more calories ounce for ounce which is how we end up with the syllogistic dogma that your metabolism is super-charged from exercise. Sort of a clouds on Venus there must be dinosaurs there thing.

10 points to whoever can tell me made that statement about Venus and in what context
------
The other part about being hamstrung by high BF% - no. My ideal weight is around 175ish so I was over 50% BF at my start weight of 265 assuming 18% normal BF and I have never exercised to lose weight.

-------

At first I was sure that your BF scale had to be wrong. But as near as I can tell it is probably pretty close to right given your height, age, current weight and ideal weight. Your specific BF should probably be 35% (age/height/sex related). So 50% isn't as bad as it sounds.


Last edited by reddarin; 10-05-2012 at 06:22 PM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:02 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Actually, the only reason I know the ounces is because of the new thermos I got. It is 24 oz.

I brew my coffee a mug at a time with one of them plastic Melitta cone filters. The thermos is 24 oz. So it holds about two of them cups and weighing the water was the easiest way to make sure I got the right amount when I switched to brewing 2 cups directly into the thermos. After I knew how much water I needed it was easy to eyeball measure it and get it right every time. One full bottle and then enough out of the second bottle to be right under some of the text on the bottle label.

I think I was just putting 8oz or 16oz in the log before. ****** doesn't show coffee as a zero item for some reason.

well, I haven't been entering coffee in the tracker I won't name! what on earth is in coffee to be measured besides heavenly wonder? Thank goodness the best antioxies are present in the brew the first 20 to 25 minutes, I get a real good shot of them first thing at 5am!
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:06 PM   #364
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Speaking of butter! I went to make some fat bombs yesterday, a double batch which would be 2 sticks of butter and alas, all I had left was my high priced grass fed butter. That I keep kind of aside to eat a little at a time on things, not cook with. Wish I could afford to use it all the time but yikes! So, talked Mr. Buff y into running to Walmart and picking up butter. Told him to just get whatever was the cheapest, 5 lbs. He comes back with 5 solid 1 lb blocks of butter, wrapped in paper. I mean, come on!!! I will use it and it will be fine but it is kind of nice to at least have a box to store it in and have the quarters wrapped with the little marks where a T is measured. What was that, 2 cents more a lb! When I questioned him about it, of course, his answer was: "you said to get the cheapest one they had". And to top it off, he parked right behind MY car on MY side of the garage! Good thing he turned around and left right away.

Pat, holler if you run out of buttah over in your corner there, I will throw you a block of this!

LOLFOTF! This is why I do not let my DH go to the store, he comes back with 3 of everything on the list!
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:08 PM   #365
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I must defend my fellow man.

You girls give us instructions. We follow them. To the letter or risk grave consequences for any creative interpretation of said instructions.

Now, that is funny! creative interpretation, oh my!
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:15 PM   #366
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Sorry, this just made me laugh!

I take the egg white in an empty pie pan. Then I drag the piece of fish through it and coat both sides with the eggwhite liquid. Then I have almond/coconut flour/salt/spices/whatever on a plate and I just sort of "drop it" in that and flip it over so it sticks to both sides....then I put the coated fish on the pan that usually has lots and lots of butter melted on it! Sometimes I melt butter off to the side and put in a tbsp or so of sliced almonds and just let them "simmer" while the fish is cooking....and then pour that over the top. This is my favorite way to make "sole almondine". I love that light white fish, petrale or dover sole. (I don't eat farmed fish and tilapia is usually farmed.)

Did that describe it a bit better. I have been known to buy a small carton of "egg whites" on sale if I don't want to crack an egg to get to the white. You can always use the yolk to add more fat/flavor to home made mayo.
thanks much. I will have to try this method. if I can get it to stick, then extra crispy it up, DH may eat my fish!
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:27 PM   #367
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LOL about the blocks of butter. Why don't you melt them down and make some ghee?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Quick question, then I have to go, will be back later.

When I started my BF was and still is very close to 50% according to my tanita scale, which of course is not a very accurate measure but still one, just the same. Is the old adage true that muscle burns more fat than BF? I assume that is the case. So, would that not really slow down my weight loss as I have a lot of BF?

I am seeing minute drops though on my tanita as far as my BF is concerned so without exercise, it does seem that I am burning some body fat, which of course is my goal.

BBL Gang, behave yourselfs, I know how you get on a Friday night!
Well, I've heard of people lifting weights and losing body fat while not losing weight, so I think losing BF is only part of it so it could slow down if you were not also building muscle to burn more of it as you reduce. I don't know if that answered the question at all.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:49 PM   #368
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Just reading some Art&Science before hitting the sack and I thought this part was very interesting. It is in location 2136:

Quote:
In addition, there is growing appreciation that increased muscle mass contributes to metabolic health. More muscle translates to greater tissue volume to take up blood glucose and more mitochondria that can burn fat. That helps fend off insulin resistance and diabetes.
Does that contradict what I said earlier? No, although Phinney states the mechanism behind it (glucose storage and mitochondria), the simplistic way I described it is the same - more calories burned ounce for ounce but not because of a revved up magical fat burning metabolism.

Anyway. I thought it was interesting. It is a compelling reason to exercise if you've a mind to do that sort of icky stuff.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:08 PM   #369
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Of course, there are other variables. Health, age, relative weight to lose, relative overall body mass, red hair.
Well, I just don't know how much weight my relatives need to lose, or what their overall body mass is but I can say, none of them have red hair.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:13 PM   #370
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I used to walk almost every day, got lazy as I got older and didn't feel all that great so it was easy to not do it. Have to say, as I feel better now, I am thinking more and more of getting back to walks and my diabetes Dr. sure wants me to do that.

I do think that it is going to take me quite a while to get some of this % of BF lowered but do feel that I will lose easier once that happens. But, the longer I do this, the better and happier I feel that I am eating this way, so if it takes time, so be it.

BTW, went to the party tonight with gals I see quite often and 1 I hadn't seen in awhle. The 1 said, wow, you have lost weight and the others chimed in and agreed, I said, no, haven't really lost that much and they all said they thought I looked like I had lost quite a bit. Of course you know people exaggerate on nice things they say, but it did make me feel like my efforts are at least showing a little bit.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:01 AM   #371
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Without getting too technical about muscle burning fat versus flab burning fat, I remember reading once many moons ago that Martina Navratalova burned more calories sitting in an armchair than you or I (that's the generic you) would burn running a marathon.

Buffy, please read The Doorbell Rang thread on the Playground. Warning--don't start reading it if you are short of time, cuz it is impossible to stop reading. I really think they should make a movie of it.

I've started my day with coffee with 2 T coconut oil and 1/2T cocoa powder. I have Linda Sue's cream cheese clouds in the freezer. I need a ziplock bag with a timer on it that won't let me open it more than twice a day.

Hope everybody has a good weekend.

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Old 10-06-2012, 03:47 AM   #372
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There are a zillion health reasons to be active that don't have anything to do with weight loss and plenty of weight loss related benefits so if you are up to it I'd do it Buffy
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:11 AM   #373
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Food Log

Log and numbers for yesterday Oct 5th.

Calories: 1458

Fat: 121
Pro: 77
Car: 25

73/21/6

Breakfast: CO & coffee.
Lunch: I liked the jalapeno, bacon fried tilapia, broccoli sauteed in bacon grease and bacon so much from yesterday I decided to do it again. Dang that is good eatin'.
Dinner: T of CO.

I realized sometime yesterday that it looks like I am eating only one meal a day but that isn't really the case. The coffee has 4T of CO so it is almost 500 calories and I count it as a real meal since it has so many calories.

I had slotted a nice salad for dinner but I put off lunch so late that I just wasn't hungry when dinner time rolled around a few hours later. I took my dose of CO later than usual too which may account for me being up a till a little past 10 last night. That stuff can be like a 5 hr energy shot.
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:14 AM   #374
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weigh-in 10062012

Weigh-in this morning... 191.8!

It looks like wrapping the bed, taking the doors off the hinges, and super gluing sandpaper to the toilet seat is paying off. Sure, it was a lot of work up front and no one likes potential rug burn type lacerations on their buttocks but some sacrifices must be made.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:04 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Weigh-in this morning... 191.8!

It looks like wrapping the bed, taking the doors off the hinges, and super gluing sandpaper to the toilet seat is paying off. Sure, it was a lot of work up front and no one likes potential rug burn type lacerations on their buttocks but some sacrifices must be made.
Well, as they say, SOMEBODY has to do it!

Super congrats on the loss, you are almost to the 180's!!!

Looks like you are getting at least 5 T of CO in each day now, I hadn't realized you were getting 4 of those in the AM, I drink 2 large mugs of coffee with 1 T in each, maybe I will work that amount up just a little.

Love the idea of the fresh broccoli in bacon grease. Do you chop it up into pretty small pieces? I can't seem to get enough bacon grease ahead, I save every drop to cook with but seem to be using it as quickly as I get it saved.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:08 AM   #376
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Thanks to EVERYONE for chiming in on my question of fat versus muscle and how you body burns calories. I absolutely agree that exercise is important and love the fact that it seems they are leaning more and more into just regular exercise, it doesn't have to be pedal to the metal ironman style. I am working up into it, I find myself parking way further from the store, little things like that.

Due to the nature of our business, we file our income tax late each year and the deadline is the 15th so next week I will pretty much be stuck in my office until I get that off to the accountant.

Oh, went to the little party last night, didn't eat anything except one little tiny square of cheese and drank ice water! Victory!!!
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:31 AM   #377
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I posted this on another thread but it is good info for this thread too.

Quote:
This study demonstrated on average that exercise is not a robust stimulus for weight loss. But the combination of dietary restriction with resistance training resulted in better maintenance of lean tissue during weight loss
From Art & Science at location 2241 or page 125 if the kindle is accurate about page numbers.

The word not was bolded in the original text.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:42 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Super congrats on the loss, you are almost to the 180's!!!

Looks like you are getting at least 5 T of CO in each day now, I hadn't realized you were getting 4 of those in the AM, I drink 2 large mugs of coffee with 1 T in each, maybe I will work that amount up just a little.

Love the idea of the fresh broccoli in bacon grease. Do you chop it up into pretty small pieces? I can't seem to get enough bacon grease ahead, I save every drop to cook with but seem to be using it as quickly as I get it saved.
Thank you

Yes. 4T every morning for the last few weeks. I was doing 3T because I was drinking 3 cups of coffee but it is more convenient to brew 4 using the new thermos.

And, depending on how the day shakes out, I sometimes eat 2 more T of CO with lunch or dinner. Like when I cook broccoli [edit: without bacon grease] I stir in 1T of CO to saute it and I count that since pretty much all of the oil coats the veggie. If it doesn't get left in the pan I'll count it sort of thing.

Plus the new thing with having a straight T of CO as my last thing eaten. So up to 7 on any given day.

Yes, I chop it up into bite sized pieces. I get the Wright's Ends and Pieces 3lb package of bacon at Wal-Mart. Great price and lots of fatty pieces for lots of grease. Even so, I eat so much of the grease that I haven't gotten very much saved up either. There is a lot of big chunks of meat in that package too. I really like it better than the strips type package.

Oh. I saute for a few minutes after getting it well coated with grease then I dash maybe a T of water into the pan and cover it for just a little bit of steaming for a couple of minutes. Lots of salt and pepper. Sooooooooo tasty!


Last edited by reddarin; 10-06-2012 at 07:43 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:45 AM   #379
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Oh, went to the little party last night, didn't eat anything except one little tiny square of cheese and drank ice water! Victory!!!
Huge victory!!

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Old 10-06-2012, 07:47 AM   #380
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I posted this on another thread but it is good info for this thread too.



From Art & Science at location 2241 or page 125 if the kindle is accurate about page numbers.

The word not was bolded in the original text.
Yet doctors, health care professionals and politicians would have us think that all you have to do is get up and exercise MORE in order to LOSE WEIGHT. That's not been shown to be the most effective. Dr. Atkins showed that a person could lose weight through dietary changes which then allowed them to exercise more because they had less weight and more energy. The equation doesn't necessarily flow in both direction.

And there are overweight people who could beat the pants off of slim folk because they exercise a LOT and they will have good cardiovascular response and recovery while not burning excessive body fat. their homeostatis keeps them at a certain weight while giving them all the energy they need to run marathons like the best of them ( I'm speaking of a particular new anchor who caught flack for being overweight)

Exercise is not necessarily a tool for weight loss, but is THE tool for good health and endurance.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:14 AM   #381
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Thank you

Yes. 4T every morning for the last few weeks. I was doing 3T because I was drinking 3 cups of coffee but it is more convenient to brew 4 using the new thermos.

And, depending on how the day shakes out, I sometimes eat 2 more T of CO with lunch or dinner. Like when I cook broccoli [edit: without bacon grease] I stir in 1T of CO to saute it and I count that since pretty much all of the oil coats the veggie. If it doesn't get left in the pan I'll count it sort of thing.

Plus the new thing with having a straight T of CO as my last thing eaten. So up to 7 on any given day.

Yes, I chop it up into bite sized pieces. I get the Wright's Ends and Pieces 3lb package of bacon at Wal-Mart. Great price and lots of fatty pieces for lots of grease. Even so, I eat so much of the grease that I haven't gotten very much saved up either. There is a lot of big chunks of meat in that package too. I really like it better than the strips type package.

Oh. I saute for a few minutes after getting it well coated with grease then I dash maybe a T of water into the pan and cover it for just a little bit of steaming for a couple of minutes. Lots of salt and pepper. Sooooooooo tasty!

That's the bacon I got last time too, I love it. Some nice big chunks of meat and the price per lb was great.

I also count the fat I put in a pan in my menu, like when I brown my fish in butter, when I get done I take a spatula and get every bit of that butter out onto the fish I then gobble up.

Can't wait to try that broccoli, do I dare send Mr. Buff to the store???? Nah, broccoli might really screw with him head
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:16 AM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metqa View Post
Yet doctors, health care professionals and politicians would have us think that all you have to do is get up and exercise MORE in order to LOSE WEIGHT. That's not been shown to be the most effective. Dr. Atkins showed that a person could lose weight through dietary changes which then allowed them to exercise more because they had less weight and more energy. The equation doesn't necessarily flow in both direction.

And there are overweight people who could beat the pants off of slim folk because they exercise a LOT and they will have good cardiovascular response and recovery while not burning excessive body fat. their homeostatis keeps them at a certain weight while giving them all the energy they need to run marathons like the best of them ( I'm speaking of a particular new anchor who caught flack for being overweight)

Exercise is not necessarily a tool for weight loss, but is THE tool for good health and endurance.
I caught that on the news about that anchor woman, for her response, and, did you see his public apology on TV? I am not sure when he did it but I saw it late last night! I LIKE her!
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:31 AM   #383
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Can't wait to try that broccoli, do I dare send Mr. Buff to the store???? Nah, broccoli might really screw with him head


[Mr. Buffy staring at the vast assortment of produce] Good Lord! Not again!!
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:39 AM   #384
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DD just sent me a text, she is down 2 lbs this AM, she is sooo happy. This is such a radical change in the way she usually eats that it has been hard for her to wrap her head around it, and she was feeling better but there is nothing like seeing that scale go down to let you know you are doing the right thing. I am sooo happy for her.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:49 AM   #385
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Red and Buffy y'all are doing great! Congrats!!on weight lost Red!!Your right the co is better than a diet pill!at work if I have a fat bomb.i can go and go just like the engery bunny!!! I'm still working on those 2 lbs I gained from eating out. Back down to 175.8 lost time...no more eating out for me!! Having to eat differts cause of work schedule ,
Red you and Buffy keep this site going we need y'all,
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:54 AM   #386
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Red and Buffy y'all are doing great! Congrats!!on weight lost Red!!Your right the co is better than a diet pill!at work if I have a fat bomb.i can go and go just like the engery bunny!!! I'm still working on those 2 lbs I gained from eating out. Back down to 175.8 lost time...no more eating out for me!! Having to eat differts cause of work schedule ,
Red you and Buffy keep this site going we need y'all,
We need you too PC. Yes, eating out is hard b/c you never know for sure what might be in stuff, it is more tempting to cheat but as I found on my trip, it can be done. Just stick with simple things like a cheeseburger, meat and eggs, one day I had egg dishes twice b/c it was the safest thing on the menu. I am sure my protein and calories were probably too high those days but anything, anything is better than eating carbs!!!

I know it is harder with a crazy work schedule, I used to work in a place that sometimes ran 24/7 and my schedule was all over the map. But, I wasn't dieting then and people there ate ALL THE TIME. There was a rule, no eating at your desk, well, let me tell you, some people practically had full service kitchens set up in their work space, it was crazy!!!
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:55 AM   #387
Big Yapper!!!!
 
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Also, I post a lot on here but that is part of doing this woe for me, it really helps me out to be on here and read, and post, read and post.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:00 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by portcop01 View Post
Red you and Buffy keep this site going we need y'all,
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:01 AM   #389
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DD just sent me a text, she is down 2 lbs this AM, she is sooo happy. This is such a radical change in the way she usually eats that it has been hard for her to wrap her head around it, and she was feeling better but there is nothing like seeing that scale go down to let you know you are doing the right thing. I am sooo happy for her.
That is so awesome!!! She's a total stranger but...



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Old 10-06-2012, 09:11 AM   #390
Big Yapper!!!!
 
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That is so awesome!!! She's a total stranger but...



You get some of the credit Red, you helped figure out her ratios and have been 100% behind her all the way! She doesn't have a clue as to how much
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