Low Carb Friends

Low Carb Friends (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/)
-   Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/)
-   -   October Nutritional Ketosis Thread! (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/784404-october-nutritional-ketosis-thread.html)

mom2zeke 09-30-2012 07:41 PM

October Nutritional Ketosis Thread!
 
Welcome to the October thread for the Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Group!

The original thread can be found here. The September thread can be found here.

We are following the Phinney/Volek books, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance, with tweaks that we’ve learned along the way.

Highly recommended is Dr. Stephen Phinney’s interview on Long-Term Stalls & Weight Gain Even On A Well-Formulated Low-Carb Diet—Google it!!

The main points for getting into NK are:
  • Find your correct protein gram range (stay at lower end of range at least until in ketosis)
  • Find your correct carb gram range (under 50 grams, many find under 20 or 30)
  • Add fat to satiety and to your goals (65%-85% of total calories)

You are putting your body into a state (nutritional ketosis) where it can easily access body fat for fuel. Part of your daily fat % will be made up from body fat so you do not have to have a certain high percentage of fat from your diet. Phinney/Volek say that fat will generally fall in the 65% - 85% range.

The Phinney/Volek Performance book advises that if you are eating fat to satiety and not losing weight you should lower your dietary fat. Just getting into NK will not make you lose weight, you must be in an energy deficit. If you give your body all the energy it needs through your intake it will not access your body fat stores. But this is not a low-fat or low-calorie diet. In his interview Dr. Phinney advised that you should never go below 1200 calories/day. Also too much high intensity exercise can cause your body to down regulate its metabolism. Finding the right balance is key!

Many of us are using a blood ketone meter to track our ketosis and adjust our macronutrients based on the readings. This is not necessary, but we’ve found it extremely helpful and it is recommended!

I have put together a cheat sheet from posts on the old list. This is not inclusive and is really just a starting point. You can find it in my signature line or here.

Note on protein requirement formulas:

The Dr. Jan Kwasniewski (Optimal Diet) formula for figuring out goal weight and protein is helpful if you don’t know where to start. We do not follow his formula for carbs and fat although you may also find them helpful as a starting point.

The Phinney/Volek calculation for protein is a range that goes up pretty high. Many people have to start out at the low end to get into NK using this formula.

Mike has put together a FAQ for this WOE, you can find it here.

Here is the recipe thread that svenskamae started: High fat, low to moderate protein recipes?
Daily high fat/moderate protein/low carb menus can be found here.

Happy losing everyone!!

mom2zeke 09-30-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsjuliekelly (Post 15982220)
Hi all!! I have been reading this thread for a few weeks. It is very fun and interesting. I never dreamed I would have enjoyed reading about blood testing ketones as much as I do :)

I lost 100 pounds about 12 years ago using Atkinds diet. Fast forward to now and have tried different versions of low carb many times to reduce that number on the scale.

Last summer I was able to use the Dukan diet to lose about 25 pounds. Now I am interested in trying the NK approach. I have been attempting it for about 2 weeks or so. So far no weight loss but I am holding steady. Here are my macros for today.

1,352 calories

16 carbs

116 fat

61 protein

I am 5'3" and currently weigh 163. I have been bouncing anywhere from 164 to 162 over the last three weeks.

I have read and listenend to SOOOOO much about NK and lchf over the last few weeks. It is very exciting and informative.

When I lost weight last on Atkins I had no idea about LCHF. I am sure I was eating double the amount of protein that I am trying for now that I am shooting for NK. I am not testing with strips of any kind. I got rather obsessive with the urine strips when I used LC 12 years ago, so I haven't even bought any this time around.

I have tried so many different diets, but what really seems to work for me is LC. I come back to it time and time again. I feel like I am finally accepting that this is the correct way of eating for me. It seems that focusing on upping the fat content is really keeping me satisfied. This time I am not craving the carbs like I did before. I assume the no carb cravings are attributed to the higher fat. It seems like I finally realize that this is what is going to work for me. I used to feel deprived when everyone else was having carbs. Not really affecting me that way anymore.

I know that those things are not healthy for me and I am happy that I have been able to find a diet that will work. Even though I really haven't lost any weight since starting NK, I do believe in the science of why it works. So I am going to keep on trucking. I will figure this out.

Thanks for shairng your own personal journeys with this. It is nice to see how others are doing on this. It is so encouraging to see your progress.

Thanks for reading my LONG intro. Glad to be subscribed here.:hiya:

Julie

:welcome: Julie! I hope you found this new thread. I think we were posting on the old one at the same time:).

Buffy45 09-30-2012 08:14 PM

marking my spot

paulabob 10-01-2012 04:28 AM

Good morning! Cutting my fat back down after a week of maintaining. DH heading to Cowboy game today so may just not cook at all.

clackley 10-01-2012 04:29 AM

Welcome Julie!:hiya:

SouthernGirl61 10-01-2012 05:41 AM

Good Morning. Where is the best online Body Fat Tracker? I went through the threads and got lost. I took 30 days of steriods; then had to go off BCP after two years straight, in day 7, and well, it's not good times. This is awful. Body is freaking out and I hope this is water....

drjlocarb 10-01-2012 06:05 AM

Wlecome Julie.


*waiting for Shelley to show up*

JMCM1 10-01-2012 06:12 AM

Subbing :hiya:

mom2zeke 10-01-2012 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61 (Post 15982689)
Good Morning. Where is the best online Body Fat Tracker? I went through the threads and got lost. I took 30 days of steriods; then had to go off BCP after two years straight, in day 7, and well, it's not good times. This is awful. Body is freaking out and I hope this is water....

:hugs:I'm so sorry to hear about all the craziness with steroids and BCP! Give yourself and your body some time to even out--I'm sure it is water.

We can't post links, but Rebecca likes the calculator at about.com in the low carb diets section. I thought it was reading high for me and that was confirmed by the hydrostatic testing that I did. I searched around and there are many to choose from. I don't think any one is the best, but the one that was closest for me at that time was the bf calculator at bmi-calculator.net. I now doubt its accuracy because of the limited data points. Depending on your body type they can be wildly inaccurate:).

I think that just plain old measuring and looking in the mirror are more useful if you don't have access to DXA, Bodpod, or hydrostatic testing for BF.

mom2zeke 10-01-2012 06:23 AM

Good morning everyone! Glad to see people migrating to the new thread:).

Today is day two of my eyeball experiment. For things like protein I am weighing after I eyeball to make sure that I'm getting it right. I'm down 1 pound to 148.4, ketones are 1.1, and BG is 95. After reading Clarie's posts about cortisol and BG I am pretty positive my higher BG readings and crazy weight fluctuations are related to this. I am in the midst of both good and bad stress right now so it's not surprising that my cortisol would be all over the map:). I'm happy if I don't go more than 2 pounds over 150 and so far I've been able to stay within that range. But it does feel better to be under 150 than over.

JMCM1 10-01-2012 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom2zeke (Post 15982782)
Good morning everyone! Glad to see people migrating to the new thread:).

Today is day two of my eyeball experiment. For things like protein I am weighing after I eyeball to make sure that I'm getting it right. I'm down 1 pound to 148.4, ketones are 1.1, and BG is 95. After reading Clarie's posts about cortisol and BG I am pretty positive my higher BG readings and crazy weight fluctuations are related to this. I am in the midst of both good and bad stress right now so it's not surprising that my cortisol would be all over the map:). I'm happy if I don't go more than 2 pounds over 150 and so far I've been able to stay within that range. But it does feel better to be under 150 than over.

How are you doing eyeballing for the weight of your food? I've only been weighing and measuring 3 months and I find I am no good at that.
However I can see it is a skill worth having for the rest of our lives! :) Willing to learn!

mom2zeke 10-01-2012 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMCM1 (Post 15982803)
How are you doing eyeballing for the weight of your food? I've only been weighing and measuring 3 months and I find I am no good at that.
However I can see it is a skill worth having for the rest of our lives! :) Willing to learn!

It's going okay. I find that I eyeball under rather than over at this point. But I know how those things go, it's easy to let a few ounces creep back until you're eating 16 ounce steaks again:).

amlyjo 10-01-2012 08:07 AM

Update on me:

Super busy week last week but I never went off plan, not even one tiny little bite.

I had mentioned I saw my doctor last week on Monday and she really wanted me back on iron. :sick: I started back on it that night and have not only not lost since then, but have gained!! :stars: I was concerned about the typical side effects of iron so I started back on my fiber supplement to help (no carb) and I think the combo of the two has messed me up royally. I feel bloated and "heavy". I am just sick about it this morning.

It's kind of scary to me that when I didn't see the motivational loss on the scale I started to slightly have that old feeling like "who cares what I eat, I'm not losing anyways?" :cry: Fortunately I really have no cravings, so the "idea" was easier to pass on, but it has given me a big red flag for finding my motivation and strength in something other than how the scale reacts to my efforts. Things like shrinking sizes, that lighter feeling, the tremendous energy, etc.

I did have an NSV this week...we went out to eat at Mama Fu's. I ordered spicy General Fu but with the gluten free sauce, and no rice. I assume there was a little sugar in there, but overall I felt like it was my best option. I might have seen a gain from that though too, but my NSV was eating out my favorite cuisine and not cheating!

I'm going to stay the course. I just have to sort out this iron/fiber/bathroom issue. Hopefully I will be back on track shortly!

clairie 10-01-2012 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom2zeke (Post 15982782)
Good morning everyone! Glad to see people migrating to the new thread:).

Today is day two of my eyeball experiment. For things like protein I am weighing after I eyeball to make sure that I'm getting it right. I'm down 1 pound to 148.4, ketones are 1.1, and BG is 95. After reading Clarie's posts about cortisol and BG I am pretty positive my higher BG readings and crazy weight fluctuations are related to this. I am in the midst of both good and bad stress right now so it's not surprising that my cortisol would be all over the map:). I'm happy if I don't go more than 2 pounds over 150 and so far I've been able to stay within that range. But it does feel better to be under 150 than over.

Good morning! Glad to see everyone here :)

Today is a test in my lowering cortisol through less strenuous exercise.

I am going to walk today to do a mild exercise instead of my usual more intense one. I mapped out a 1 mile loop which I will do 3 times. Hoping for the best!
tweaking my amounts in food a little:
Eating a little higher pro and less fat. I was really tired the last week, so I am going to up the pro to the higher edge of my limit. I am 5'7 and was eating 57 grams. I would love to eat more like 80 grams. That's still in range, right?

have a great day everyone!

mom_2_4 10-01-2012 11:08 AM

Wow! It's hard to believe that it's October already!!! Sorry I've been MIA lately. I'm still following the plan and have lost all but a few ounces of what I gained a week ago when I went off plan.

Been a lot going on so I doubt I'll have time to post much until the fair is over, my oldest son is involved in FFA so we will be spending most of our free time up there until its over next week. On an exciting note he won first place in the calf scramble and won a belt buckle And a CALF! LOL on a very very sad note on the opening day of the fair his FFA teacher was killed in a car accident, that was this past Saturday. Needless to say its been very hard on everyone as this is a pretty small tight knit community :( its been very hard to see my 16 year old son cry off and on every day :( such a hard life lesson for these kiddos.

Anyway, I'm trying to catch up on reading. I wanted To make sure y'all knew I was still around and hopefully things will slow down after the fair! I see everyone is doing well!!

shelley 10-01-2012 11:30 AM

Welcome Julie! I think many of us were stalled on LC and Atkins induction and found our way here. It's a fun group.

Mon 2 4...so sorry to hear about the death of your sons FFA teacher.....what a horrible "welcome" to life. So sad. Hope he weathers it well. glad you're staying on track.

Clairie.....I decided NOT to go to the gym today to lift weights because in my heart I just know that it's not "the right time" yet to push myself like that. I'll continue my walks until we get rained or snowed out.....then I'll do the elliptical on high hills and hard resistance to make the big muscles (yup, those buttocks ones!) work hard and hopefully burn the fat!

Amy, I'm so with you on the feeling of giving up when you don't see the scale moving. It's so easy to get frustrated with all the ups and downs. Glad you are not giving in. As you have read from many of us...the scale does go nuts on this way of eating...up and down and up and down. I got some graph paper and started making a graph (manual) of my weight every morning and I'm amused with the ups and downs, but the reality is that they are moving in lower zig zags. Someone said this way of weightloss is at a glacial speed, and I so agree with that. Hang in there. This is a healthy way to lose. Not fast, but really slow, and that's the healthiest way to lose.

SouthernGirl......steroids definitely put weight on people...and it takes a while to get it out of your system. Hang in there...it will get better. Drink lots of water to flush that stuff out of your system.

Kristn, thanks for the start of the October thread. Fabulous job! Really helps the newbies to know what is going on and where to find information. So thrilled that you are doing so well on maintenance, and your departure date is coming up for fun in the sun. Hope your cortisol levels settle down....probably will in the sun and fun soon!!!!

Dr. J....I'm so sorry that I didn't take my PP b/g readings last night after dinner. I was not feeling well with the smoked pork spareribs...felt really awful and figured any reading might be skewed and I'd already done 3 pokes that day so I didn't do it. I'm sorry. I'm still not feeling great...horrible stomach cramps during sleep...no sauce or anything on the ribs. Hubby said they were "funny" to him as well. DRAT...it was 3 racks of them smoked and we usually adore them. They tasted just fine, but...... So, no testing last night. I also didn't test this AM as I still feel really "off"......I'll try for tomorrow.

Oh...and I think it was pantographs idea to weigh the ribs before eating and then put the bones and grissly stuff on the scale to find the true weight of what you ate. Worked Great! Thanks Terry if it was you!

Have a great week everyone!

JMCM1 10-01-2012 11:31 AM

Oh - mom 2_4 that is a very hard thing for those kids. I imagine they were working closely with their FFA teacher.
Very sorry. I hope the distraction of the fair and continuing to compete will help the immediate grief.

mom_2_4 10-01-2012 12:25 PM

Yes hopefully it'll keep his mind off of it. I think FFA teachers end up being more like friends to the kids than teachers because they do so much extra stuff together and most of what they do isn't classroom stuff.... So it's really like he lost a good friend :(

On positive note, my pants are getting looser! YAY!

reddarin 10-01-2012 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom_2_4 (Post 15983670)
On positive note, my pants are getting looser! YAY!

Husband: Yay!!!!!

lizzybme 10-01-2012 12:52 PM

bump

Buffy45 10-01-2012 03:10 PM

Just checking in after getting home from my 4 day trip. I am very proud of myself. Did not have any drinks and I kind of wanted to have some, but didn't. Ate LC to the very best of my knowledge, the only thing I did that wasn't really to my plan was to eat a whole very dark chocolate bar with almonds and sea salt but that was over the 4 days. Kind of my reward for sticking to my WOE. Not sure what the scale will say in the morning, I doubt if I show a loss b/c I feel like I ate bigger portions than I do at home and I usually am swollen for a couple of days after traveling.

Will post more as I get rested up. Also, had blood test results come back today and need to talk to you all about those.

mom2zeke 10-01-2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom_2_4 (Post 15983670)
Yes hopefully it'll keep his mind off of it. I think FFA teachers end up being more like friends to the kids than teachers because they do so much extra stuff together and most of what they do isn't classroom stuff.... So it's really like he lost a good friend :(

On positive note, my pants are getting looser! YAY!

So sorry to hear about your son's FFA teacher.

And yay for loose pants!

mom2zeke 10-01-2012 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffy45 (Post 15984024)
Just checking in after getting home from my 4 day trip. I am very proud of myself. Did not have any drinks and I kind of wanted to have some, but didn't. Ate LC to the very best of my knowledge, the only thing I did that wasn't really to my plan was to eat a whole very dark chocolate bar with almonds and sea salt but that was over the 4 days. Kind of my reward for sticking to my WOE. Not sure what the scale will say in the morning, I doubt if I show a loss b/c I feel like I ate bigger portions than I do at home and I usually am swollen for a couple of days after traveling.

Will post more as I get rested up. Also, had blood test results come back today and need to talk to you all about those.

Welcome back Buffy! It sounds like you did a great job sticking to plan. I totally understand needing a reward when you're doing so well.

mom2zeke 10-01-2012 04:41 PM

Okay, I know that it's totally off topic but I just have to share with all my NK friends. Some of you know that I am divorced. The ex and I split up not long after I lost my initial weight. At the time I had been a SAH mom for 11+ years and wasn't sure what to do about a career. Over the years I've tried a few different paths, but 4 years ago I started the process that culminated today with my CPA license! I can't tell you how good it feels to have made it to this goal. And I'm at my goal weight too!

JMCM1 10-01-2012 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom2zeke (Post 15984274)
Okay, I know that it's totally off topic but I just have to share with all my NK friends. Some of you know that I am divorced. The ex and I split up not long after I lost my initial weight. At the time I had been a SAH mom for 11+ years and wasn't sure what to do about a career. Over the years I've tried a few different paths, but 4 years ago I started the process that culminated today with my CPA license! I can't tell you how good it feels to have made it to this goal. And I'm at my goal weight too!

:jumpjoy: :clap: :jumpjoy: :clap:

I think you've made all our days a little brighter!
Congrats - for so many reasons, smarty loose pants! :)

MargD 10-01-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom2zeke (Post 15984274)
Okay, I know that it's totally off topic but I just have to share with all my NK friends. Some of you know that I am divorced. The ex and I split up not long after I lost my initial weight. At the time I had been a SAH mom for 11+ years and wasn't sure what to do about a career. Over the years I've tried a few different paths, but 4 years ago I started the process that culminated today with my CPA license! I can't tell you how good it feels to have made it to this goal. And I'm at my goal weight too!

What an accomplishment. Congratulations!

shelley 10-01-2012 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom2zeke (Post 15984274)
Okay, I know that it's totally off topic but I just have to share with all my NK friends. Some of you know that I am divorced. The ex and I split up not long after I lost my initial weight. At the time I had been a SAH mom for 11+ years and wasn't sure what to do about a career. Over the years I've tried a few different paths, but 4 years ago I started the process that culminated today with my CPA license! I can't tell you how good it feels to have made it to this goal. And I'm at my goal weight too!

Congratulations on both fronts (weight goal and getting your CPA license!!!)

Great news.

Now you can really celebrate on your holiday...just follow Buffy's good actions on her getaway and you'll really be proud of yourself.

Good going Buffy!!!!

svenskamae 10-01-2012 05:01 PM

Kristn, congratuations on getting your CPA license! This is a year of many goals met for you, and I hope things just keep getting better for you.

It's hard to keep up with all the reports here, so I'll just say congratulations to those who are losing or are staying on plan, or both. And sorry about your son's FFA teacher's death, mom_2_4; I hope that he and his friends who were close to this teacher can take some comfort from each other in sharing good memories of that person.

I've found something resembling a non-athlete's book about eating a nutritional ketosis diet for weight loss: Sten Sture Skaldeman's "Lose Weight by Eating (Scandinavian diet)." I got the book from Amazon, where it's available on Kindle for $8; since it has recipes but not pictures, I think it would work okay on Kindle. (I bought a paperback version.) This is translated from Swedish and is definitely focused on weight loss for insulin-resistent people by eating a high-fat, lowcarb diet. The author urges people to not only limit carbs but also to make sure that the ratio of fat to protein and carbs is high in whatever they eat (so his many recipes add cream, butter, and/or cheese to most savory dishes). For the most insulin-resistent people (and he places himself in this group), carbs are very low (net carbs around 12-14/day) and fat makes up about 80 percent of calories. He says that it may take multiple months for people's bodies to adjust to burning fat effectively, so that's heartening to people who aren't getting results right away while trying to be in nutritional ketosis. I don't have the book with me, but I'll try to remember to bring it in to work and post some salient quotes and details.

mom2zeke 10-01-2012 05:12 PM

Thanks Judy, Marge, Shelly, and Sven! It has been an amazing year of many goals met for me. Last year I was dealing with terrible chronic pain and really hoping that this year would be better. I'm just so happy and grateful to have discovered NK and this great group of people. IRL I don't have anyone to check-in with about NK and LC eating in general. DH is super supportive, but just not that interested in discussing the details in length:).

mom2zeke 10-01-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svenskamae (Post 15984321)
I've found something resembling a non-athlete's book about eating a nutritional ketosis diet for weight loss: Sten Sture Skaldeman's "Lose Weight by Eating (Scandinavian diet)." I got the book from Amazon, where it's available on Kindle for $8; since it has recipes but not pictures, I think it would work okay on Kindle. (I bought a paperback version.) This is translated from Swedish and is definitely focused on weight loss for insulin-resistent people by eating a high-fat, lowcarb diet. The author urges people to not only limit carbs but also to make sure that the ratio of fat to protein and carbs is high in whatever they eat (so his many recipes add cream, butter, and/or cheese to most savory dishes). For the most insulin-resistent people (and he places himself in this group), carbs are very low (net carbs around 12-14/day) and fat makes up about 80 percent of calories. He says that it may take multiple months for people's bodies to adjust to burning fat effectively, so that's heartening to people who aren't getting results right away while trying to be in nutritional ketosis. I don't have the book with me, but I'll try to remember to bring it in to work and post some salient quotes and details.

I might have to get this for my kindle to read on vacation. It sounds really interesting.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:30 PM.