October Nutritional Ketosis Thread!

[mom2zeke]

Shelley--I agree with everyone else, please stay and continue your journey with us! We can all learn from each other especially when we're struggling.

[mom2zeke]

Stevie Renee, jesship, and sutton_02!

I hope I didn't miss anyone. I had a busy day at work and I'm just trying to catch up!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Stevie Renee

Hello.

Lurking over here.

I was wondering on your last 10, how many calories was your target to get to goal? I am 5'6.5", almost 49 (next month) and would like to get to 150 as well. I figured out my protein at 60ish grams but I do lift weights a couple of times a day so would eat more on those days. I figured my carbs to 25 or less and calories at 1350.I have been on so many calculators on line, I am confusing myself if I have this right! lol

I think that you're right on target. I tried to keep calories around 1200-1400 when I was losing those last pounds.

I figure this will take several months - but I am ok with that.

PS: Do you add in c/o to your day to day macros?

Patience and persistence are key to making it to goal--you're doing great! Like Buffy, I count everything in my daily macros.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by omatic

Some people have a strong glucose / insulin response to whey. I would do a reading before and at one and two hours after.

Shelley--you should definitely test to see if you have a glucose/insulin response to whey.

[omatic]

Got the results from my blood draw:

Total Cholesterol: 363 up from 214
HDL: 63 up from 57
Trig: 79 down from 118

Trig/HDL ratio: 1.25 down from 2.07

I expected it to go up but WOW! Has anyone else had this experience? Peter Attia had a great series on cholesterol.

Oh, my fasting Glucose can in at 90. I regularly get readings in the upper 70s and lower 80 with my nova.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by sutton_02

Hello everyone! I've been lurking for quite a while and have been experimenting with nutritional ketosis for a few weeks. Loving the results so far! I got the free meter and have been periodically checking fasted ketone levels. Last time I checked, I got a 2.4, so I'm firmly in nutritional ketosis. Well . . . . was in nutritional ketosis.

One day last week, I don't know what happened, but I had some ferocious sugar cravings. I tried lots of fat and l-glutamine, but I couldn't shake it. I'm pretty sure it was hormonal, but I just don't understand why it happened, or what to do about it should it happen again. I thought cravings were supposed to be diminished while in NK? I mean, they definitely were for me up until this point. Maybe I should've just continued stuffing myself with fat until it subsided. I guess even extra protein would've been better than sugar.

Needless to say, I caved. So Thursday thru Sunday was definitely not low carb, but I'm back on track and will hopefully be back in NK soon.

I guess I just want to try to find a reason I had these sudden intense sugar cravings while in NK, so that I can prevent it from happening again. I do Crossfit 3 to 4 times per week, so perhaps my body had run out of glycogen and hasn't fully keto adapted yet? If it happens again, I should probably just power through it with gobs of fat so that I don't back track with the keto adaptation.

Anywho, thanks for listening! I've really enjoyed reading through these nutritional ketosis threads. Maybe now that I've come out of hiding, I'll stop lurking and start contributing!

I agree with others--keep eating legal food until your craving goes away. If you feed the sugar cravings they will continue to keep coming back.

Thanks for coming out of hiding!

[mrsjuliekelly]

I had to quit weighing everyday. The ups and downs were starting to wear on me. Especially considering that I kept playing with the same two or three pounds for about 5 -6 weeks. This morning the scale was nice, but I am feeling a little ruled by the scale. So, I know this is working for me but I am losing slowly. It is not a problem but sure would not mind if it went a little faster. I have lost 8 pounds in two months. I still want to lose about 30 pounds. It sure is great to hop on here and read about your experiences. I don't post much, but I sure am a great lurker. Hope everyone is having a great lchf day! Thanks for all the support. So glad you all want to talk about your experiences. Otherwise, I am not sure I would be thinking I am doing the right thing.

It really is sad how much of my life I spent believing that fat was evil! Such is life, right?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by omatic

Got the results from my blood draw:

Total Cholesterol: 363 up from 214
HDL: 63 up from 57
Trig: 79 down from 118

Trig/HDL ratio: 1.25 down from 2.07

I expected it to go up but WOW! Has anyone else had this experience? Peter Attia had a great series on cholesterol.

Oh, my fasting Glucose can in at 90. I regularly get readings in the upper 70s and lower 80 with my nova.

When was your last test and how long have you been LC? Are you one of us on thyroid hormone? My LDL and total cholesterol went way up when my thyroid wasn't optimized.

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by omatic

Got the results from my blood draw:

Total Cholesterol: 363 up from 214
HDL: 63 up from 57
Trig: 79 down from 118

Trig/HDL ratio: 1.25 down from 2.07

I expected it to go up but WOW! Has anyone else had this experience? Peter Attia had a great series on cholesterol.

Oh, my fasting Glucose can in at 90. I regularly get readings in the upper 70s and lower 80 with my nova.

What was your LDL and did you get a VAP or NMR test to show the particle size? And like mom2zeke asked,how long have you been eating this way? I have read Dr William Davis say it can take 6 to 9 months before it all irons out. Some people have inherent higher numbers but looking at it all, HDL is fantastic. Anything over 60 is ideal. Trigs; another winner. Total number is not what we should consider anymore.

Thank you mom2zeke. I appreciate your feedback.

mrsjuliekelly, I am not a daily weigher -just gets me crazy. Fat is good for you, well at least the "good kind" - lol Welcome to the dark side! haha

Shelly, I ended up at sparks as they have a free recipe builder. Do you mind sharing your calorie count and carbs? Do you use a sweetener for your fat bombs? Mine calculated to 141 but that did not add the cocoa nibs. I prefer peanut butter to almond as far as taste goes but I don't because of the starch. lol...

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I think that you're right on target. I tried to keep calories around 1200-1400 when I was losing those last pounds.



Patience and persistence are key to making it to goal--you're doing great! Like Buffy, I count everything in my daily macros.

Thank you for your help. Did you journal your menus here on the boards?
Also, were you able to eat any dark chocolate or fat bombs with cocoa?

How long did it take you to lose the last 10. Do you recall? Sometimes it is a blur unless we really take notes! lol

[omatic]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

When was your last test and how long have you been LC? Are you one of us on thyroid hormone? My LDL and total cholesterol went way up when my thyroid wasn't optimized.

My last test was 6mo ago and get everything tested every 6mos. I have been LC for 3years except for a 9mo break with SAD which ended in Jan 2012. I have been NK since July.

I am one of you with thyroid issue but all is well according to this new draw.

I expected a rise according to all the reading I have done on NK and cholesterol but it is still shocking. Next time I am going to request a NMR test to determine the particle size of the LDL.

Also family hx of elevated cholesterol.

[omatic]

Originally Posted by Stevie Renee

What was your LDL and did you get a VAP or NMR test to show the particle size? And like mom2zeke asked,how long have you been eating this way? I have read Dr William Davis say it can take 6 to 9 months before it all irons out. Some people have inherent higher numbers but looking at it all, HDL is fantastic. Anything over 60 is ideal. Trigs; another winner. Total number is not what we should consider anymore.

LC 3yrs with a 9mo SAD pitty party and NK since July. Yes, loved the HDL and Trig! At the next draw, I will have a NMR to determine the particle size. NMR is $$

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Stevie Renee

Thank you for your help. Did you journal your menus here on the boards?
Also, were you able to eat any dark chocolate or fat bombs with cocoa?

How long did it take you to lose the last 10. Do you recall? Sometimes it is a blur unless we really take notes! lol

I think I posted some of my menus, but I pretty much ate almost the same thing every day. I did have a fat bomb with lunch every day, but didn't snack on them.

This is my typical day when I was losing the last 10 pounds:

B: 2 eggs cooked in 1/2TBS coconut oil, 1 ounce each of sour cream and salsa, 2 cups of coffee with a total of 1/4 cup of coconut cream
L: 2 ounces of cream cheese and one fat bomb
S: 2 cups of coffee w a total of 1/4 cup of coconut cream
D: 4-5 ounces of protein and large salad with 1 tbs olive oil and red wine vinegar.

Occasionally I would eat more/differently on weekends and had a few vodka/soda cocktails.

I lost the last 10 pounds between 7/15 and 8/27 (I was 10 pounds from goal when I started the original NK thread). Here's a link to the original thread: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ot...l#post15801882. I posted a lot of what I was doing in there and reached goal right before starting the September thread.

[jillybean720]

Originally Posted by omatic

Got the results from my blood draw:

Total Cholesterol: 363 up from 214
HDL: 63 up from 57
Trig: 79 down from 118

Trig/HDL ratio: 1.25 down from 2.07

I expected it to go up but WOW! Has anyone else had this experience? Peter Attia had a great series on cholesterol.

Oh, my fasting Glucose can in at 90. I regularly get readings in the upper 70s and lower 80 with my nova.

Your HDL is up and your trigs are down. Honestly, I believe that's the best news! I've read many times that the ratio is far more important than the individual numbers, and the total cholesterol number is almost completely meaningless.

My fasting glucose from lab draws is almost always slightly higher than my home test result. I think it's because it's another hour or more later than when I test at home, so I figure it's essentially traces of dawn phenomenon.

[SouthernGirl61]

Hello to All! Hope today was good for most, getting better for those in the East!

Shelley, Wow, your limited access to care is concerning! 9 hours is a long drive. I do not talk much about my early-young history, but I was an anorexic for a time in college. There's a lot of research on the long term effects, and I think this is a "link" as well. I have accepted this issue, and every odd once in a while it comes out and "talks" to me, but I push it back, never going there again. I think our bodies rebel at a certain point, from prior eating history. It is what it is. Keep exercising, nothing but good with that! Don't leave unless YOU need a break from it all.

Hi Jilly. Welcome to this thread.

Kristn, I agree, something else but meno is going on. But it depends on the FSA results/count, as to how far you are in meno. I have no baseline point, as I didn't have enough symptoms to get a test 18 months ago...but it's a factor.

Hi Sandy, I wonder if I should go on BHRT?? Maybe that would "kick it in gear"?? I have always told myself I would do this as it can increase the quality of life.

Hi Sutton, welcome! When I would crave sugar I would get a scoop of cream cheese. No way I can overeat that stuff straight! Maybe review your macros again; I concentrate on protein/carbs, and let the fat fill the rest.

Hello Jesship! Welcome. Give yourself a break, and just get back to NK. Hurricanes are stressful!

Hi Paula! So sorry to hear of the sadness in your world. So hard at times to understand.

Yea Karen! Surprises like that are great!

Ormatic, your counts look about right for NK. I never worry about total....I watch Trigs and HDL. Many new studies about this, and the Total isn't the "big pic."

MrsJulie, I weight once a week on Sunday, I divorced the "daily" scale about six weeks ago. I can't give it the power for my happiness....8 lbs in two months is great to me!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61

Kristn, I agree, something else but meno is going on. But it depends on the FSA results/count, as to how far you are in meno. I have no baseline point, as I didn't have enough symptoms to get a test 18 months ago...but it's a factor.

Hi Sandy, I wonder if I should go on BHRT?? Maybe that would "kick it in gear"?? I have always told myself I would do this as it can increase the quality of life.

Personally I think getting tested and considering BHRT is a good idea. I went in to my naturopath feeling so terrible thinking that I would go on BHRT if it would help. It turned out that I had other issues but I will still do BHRT if necessary in the future. My ND did say that testing hormones at this age is very difficult as this month's hormones may be vastly different than next month's.

You can always get more tests and information before making the final decision.

[tablis]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here and have been lurking and gaining from all your knowledge by looking things up over the years. Finally decided to join.

Inro: I've been on Atkins for years. About 14 probably. With a few breaks for pregnancies etc. Lost 80+ lbs twice-after pregnancies. This last time I kept it off for a few years but then I had a period where I had to travel for a long time and I didn't manage to keep up with preparing protein for myself. I gained it ALL back in seriously record time. Like crazy fast. And- I was eating what is generally thought to be healthy foods not "junk" and limiting carbs just not the way I can at home.

Since then Atkins does not work for me. I was just on induction for 6 mos + and lost zip. I thought maybe I was working out too much. I just finished a six week leptin reset and still nothing other than I feel weak from not working out at all.

I found you guys bc I want to make LCing work for me. Any other WOE makes me feel awful. I haven't managed to lose on Atkins lately but at least I'm not gaining and I have the other benefits of ketosis ie: energy, clear thinking, absence of cravings etc; which are quickly lost on any other WOE. But I sure would like my body back too.

I have been reading for awhile and trying to catch up on all the information in these NK threads. I also attempted to understand the difference between this and the 80/15/20 thread. Hoping that one of these LC approaches will work for me. Not sure which one to choose so I kind of attempted to combine the two.

I started a ****** account- Until now I just counted carbs and didn't worry about protein etc per atkins classic. And I found what I hope is the right range for protein. And I have a couple of questions. Please excuse me if they've already been addressed, I want to be sure I'm doing this correctly and if I wait to catch up on the thread I will waste a lot of time .

1) As I understand it some of you (mom2zeke-I think posted) believe that 80/15/5 may be too much fat in the ratio for some ppl to lose weight. Can you tell me from your experience what IS a good ratio to use? My Protein range is either, 40-75 or 54-90 as far as I can tell tell using two formulas I found on here. my goal weight is 110 lbs. I'm only on the third day and I was using 80/15/5 with 60gms of protein 13 net carbs bc I thought that since it is between 65 and 85% fat I would be filling the requirements of both 80/15/5 and NK at the same time and have more chance of success. Now I want to adjust bc of the fat warning and am not sure what to aim for.

2) Are the macro percentages I'm getting on ****** the ones I should be using or should I be adjusting to reflect %net carbs. If yes is there another tracker that does it according to net carbs bc that would be a pain to figure out. For example, I tend to need some non- carb fiber for regularity as soon as I limit vegs. In the past, if I took psyillium husks I didn't count them at all bc they have no net carbs. I noticed that if I log it into ****** it totally skews my carb %ages. Should I be logging it in or not? I wanted to track and see if it works but I wonder if it should be counted towards %ages at all. Once i'm doing this I want to be doing it exactly.

Thanks for your patience and continued success to all!

[omatic]

Two days in a row at 1.9 BK

[omatic]

Originally Posted by tablis

Hi everyone,
I tend to need some non- carb fiber for regularity as soon as I limit vegs.

If you supplement with magnesium, regularity will not be a problem !

[paulabob]

Thanks all I'm doing better today. Had a nice clean day yesterday. Glad it's Halloween, something fun for the kids tonight! (and candy isn't my temptation so that's okay too!).

[clackley]

Welcome Tablis!

I believe the amounts of fat, protein and carbs should be actual amounts rather than percentages. For instance, I shoot for less 55g protein an 92g of fat with a max of 15g net carbs. Those numbers can be looked at as percentages but the actual limit of grams is far more definitive.

[Buffy45]

Tablis.

A lot of people here use ****** and most of us count all carbs, the only time I look at net carbs is if they seem really high for the day, then I look to see how much fiber I have eaten and see if that is the reason. Like the days I eat avocado or pumpkin, my carbs are always a little higher.

To begin with, I wouldn't worry too much about percentages, I would just be sure you get the minimum protein to protect LBM, and then settle on the carb count you feel is right for you, most of us try for around 20 or less per day, and then make up the rest in fat until you feel full and satisfied. Do that for a while and see if you can lose on that. You can see where the percentages fall doing it that way and later on, then tweak. If you try to tweak the program too much at first, I think you will just get frustrated and not know what works and what doesn't. As always, it is a YMMV type of thing on how much fat.

Good luck!

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Thanks all I'm doing better today. Had a nice clean day yesterday. Glad it's Halloween, something fun for the kids tonight! (and candy isn't my temptation so that's okay too!).

Glad you had a good day. Keep it up!

[Buffy45]

Nice surprise on my scales this AM, a new low and a little over 1 1/2 lb loss since weighing yesterday. Wow, to me that is pretty much a whoosh! 194.4

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by omatic

Two days in a row at 1.9 BK

That is great, feels good to see those high numbers!!!

[SouthernGirl61]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Personally I think getting tested and considering BHRT is a good idea. I went in to my naturopath feeling so terrible thinking that I would go on BHRT if it would help. It turned out that I had other issues but I will still do BHRT if necessary in the future. My ND did say that testing hormones at this age is very difficult as this month's hormones may be vastly different than next month's.

You can always get more tests and information before making the final decision.

I think I will go to my NPath instead of GYN, she will likely listen to my frustrations! Yes the FSA can bounce around, but once to hit a certain number, it tends to go up,up,up! I'm okay with it all, happy in fact. Just trying to learn a new game!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by tablis

1) As I understand it some of you (mom2zeke-I think posted) believe that 80/15/5 may be too much fat in the ratio for some ppl to lose weight. Can you tell me from your experience what IS a good ratio to use? My Protein range is either, 40-75 or 54-90 as far as I can tell tell using two formulas I found on here. my goal weight is 110 lbs. I'm only on the third day and I was using 80/15/5 with 60gms of protein 13 net carbs bc I thought that since it is between 65 and 85% fat I would be filling the requirements of both 80/15/5 and NK at the same time and have more chance of success. Now I want to adjust bc of the fat warning and am not sure what to aim for.

2) Are the macro percentages I'm getting on ****** the ones I should be using or should I be adjusting to reflect %net carbs. If yes is there another tracker that does it according to net carbs bc that would be a pain to figure out. For example, I tend to need some non- carb fiber for regularity as soon as I limit vegs. In the past, if I took psyillium husks I didn't count them at all bc they have no net carbs. I noticed that if I log it into ****** it totally skews my carb %ages. Should I be logging it in or not? I wanted to track and see if it works but I wonder if it should be counted towards %ages at all. Once i'm doing this I want to be doing it exactly.

Thanks for your patience and continued success to all!

Tablis!

Originally Posted by omatic

If you supplement with magnesium, regularity will not be a problem !

Originally Posted by clackley

Welcome Tablis!

I believe the amounts of fat, protein and carbs should be actual amounts rather than percentages. For instance, I shoot for less 55g protein an 92g of fat with a max of 15g net carbs. Those numbers can be looked at as percentages but the actual limit of grams is far more definitive.

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Tablis.

A lot of people here use ****** and most of us count all carbs, the only time I look at net carbs is if they seem really high for the day, then I look to see how much fiber I have eaten and see if that is the reason. Like the days I eat avocado or pumpkin, my carbs are always a little higher.

To begin with, I wouldn't worry too much about percentages, I would just be sure you get the minimum protein to protect LBM, and then settle on the carb count you feel is right for you, most of us try for around 20 or less per day, and then make up the rest in fat until you feel full and satisfied. Do that for a while and see if you can lose on that. You can see where the percentages fall doing it that way and later on, then tweak. If you try to tweak the program too much at first, I think you will just get frustrated and not know what works and what doesn't. As always, it is a YMMV type of thing on how much fat.

Good luck!

As others have pointed out, while the percentages are interesting it's much more important to get your protein and carb grams correct--that's what will get you into ketosis. In the books Phinney/Volek point out that part of your fat% will be made up from body fat so when you're losing your % fat from intake will be lower than if you're in maintenance. There is not one perfect % that works for everyone--you need to do a little bit of experimentation. I'll reiterate what Buffy said: find your correct protein gram amount, pick a gram number for carbs (total--most of us find that around 20 or less works well). The rest of your intake will come from fat and in the beginning you should eat to satiety. Once you're in ketosis consistently (do you have a meter?) evaluate whether or not you're losing. If not then decrease your fat until you start losing. Do not go too low on total calories (1200 seemed to be the cut off that Phinney talked about in his interview) or exercise too much because you can lower your metabolism and stop weight loss.

As for the protein, I would start with the lower number in your higher range-54 grams. If you're using a meter you can start playing with this number once you get into ketosis.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61

I think I will go to my NPath instead of GYN, she will likely listen to my frustrations! Yes the FSA can bounce around, but once to hit a certain number, it tends to go up,up,up! I'm okay with it all, happy in fact. Just trying to learn a new game!

My ND did a comprehensive hormone test which was very enlightening!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Nice surprise on my scales this AM, a new low and a little over 1 1/2 lb loss since weighing yesterday. Wow, to me that is pretty much a whoosh! 194.4

Woo hoo Buffy!!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by omatic

Two days in a row at 1.9 BK

Isn't it great to see those numbers!! Congrats!