October Nutritional Ketosis Thread!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by geogeo

Shelley, I really really know how frustrating this is for you. Wish I could help. Big Cyber Hug.

Did you read the blog post Jimmy put up comparing the nova and the precision? My (much shorter timespan) experience is similar to his in that the nova reads a significant amount lower than the precision. Supposedly the precision was compared by someone who had access to a lab and it was pretty accurate.
I only mention that because it seems like a positive thing if the nova shows ketosis even if it reads low.

Buffy, congrats!! And mmmmmmm chicken skin! Oh, you make me want to take some chicken out of the freezer and cook it before we lose power! If only it was already defrosted!

Love cast iron skillets! My oldest one is one my Dad gave me decades ago. I don't use them that much since I prefer my beef practically still mooing.

Thank you! I guess I may need to invest in a precision meter for ketones then. I don't listen to the podcasts as I have very super slow dial-up. So, I appreciate the information. I might have to get a different meter for glucose as well. Wow...this is getting expensive! I already have 3 Nova Max meters (all new)

Re: your next post on menopause. I'm way beyond that at age 64....went through it naturally 15 years ago, so don't think I have any hormones to cause issues, and I sleep very well...7.5-8 hours without ever waking. No hot flashes, etc. I"m going to test my readings again this afternoon, and then before and after dinner just to see what they do after the morning hours. I have never tested in teh PM hours before. I've got about 100 glucose strips, so why not....my poor fingers though with that many pokes in a day! Guess others have to do this, so I will *not* whine about it!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by EllaP

I'm old ... well, getting there at 53.

"Old" at 53????

[shelley]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Good morning everyone!!

I hope everyone in the path of the storm is staying warm and dry today.

My ketone reading was down to .4 this morning. I'm not totally surprised, we had grilled steak for dinner and I ate much more than I intended to. I really have to limit my protein to stay in ketosis and sometimes it's harder than others.

How is everyone else doing this morning?

Kristn....how much is "too much protein" for you to push you back down in ketones like that??? Thanks.

[One maur time]

Dear Buffy
Way to go. You are doing great!
Maureen

[shelley]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I believe the Nova Max Meter wasn't highly rated for glucose measurement. The unscientific tests that people did for ketones had it reading slightly low (but still within acceptable boundaries) vs. the Precision meter.

I've had glucose readings all over the map with the Nova Max. If I was worried that my BG was high I might actually spring for another meter for BG. I don't think that they're too expensive.

Another "bad report" on the Nova max, and you have also had BG readings all over the place. Guess it might be the meter although this year I requested a Ha1C test and it was at the high end...not good.

Guess I need a Precision for ketones, an Accu-chek or Freestyle for glucose, and need to find a doc that can help me figure this out. I'll check out the Precision meter.....thanks!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Shelley, a drive of one to two hours is nothing if you can find the help you need. I drive 40 minutes to go to the endo of my choice and pass by dozens on the way.

I so agree.....that's how I got my adrenals/thyroid fixed.....drive 2.5 hours to the only doc that didn't want to push nasty synthroid on me! But he doesn't deal with glucose stuff. So, the search is on for another doc....in another state, and 2-3 hours away at the "closest"! Does that mean that I can go shopping in the big cities then???

ETA: I drive 40 minutes just to get to the nearest grocery store (and the gym)! It would be great to find a doc that close!!!!!

[One maur time]

Dear Shelley
I'm so sorry that this has been so frustrating. There has to be a real solution to all this.
I wish I had the answers- I don't. But sending you all my good thoughts!!
Maureen

[shelley]

Originally Posted by One maur time

Dear Shelley
I'm so sorry that this has been so frustrating. There has to be a real solution to all this.
I wish I had the answers- I don't. But sending you all my good thoughts!!
Maureen

Thanks Maureen!!! I also wish you had all the answers.....

[One maur time]

Dear Georgo
Very interesting. I will check out the website you referenced.
Maureen

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by shelley

Kristn....how much is "too much protein" for you to push you back down in ketones like that??? Thanks.

I tried to estimate using ******. I didn't measure the steak after I started eating more, so it's an educated guess. I think that I probably ate around 120 grams of protein yesterday. That's the high end of my range via Phinney/Volek using my goal LBM. I usually try to keep protein in the 70-90 range.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by shelley

Thank you! I guess I may need to invest in a precision meter for ketones then. I don't listen to the podcasts as I have very super slow dial-up. So, I appreciate the information. I might have to get a different meter for glucose as well. Wow...this is getting expensive! I already have 3 Nova Max meters (all new)

I'm not giving up on my Nova yet. It seemed like in Jimmy's test the Nova read .2-.6 lower than the Precision. I'm just going to take that into consideration when I take my readings. So a .4 on the Nova is probably in Ketosis. I think the real problem is if you're getting the "Lo" reading on the Nova.

The Jimmy Moore test of the meters wasn't a podcast. Just Google Jimmy Moore ketone meter evaluation for the blog post.

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by shelley

Thank you Buffy for your post. I haven't gone to the diabetes area at all...stick with these 2 NK threads only.

I just did the 2 hr PP test for glucose and should have stuck with my happy 82 above. But 2 hours after my bfast and not having anything else, the test was 103.

I looked up endos for within an hour of me...one group at a hospital an hour away, and it was not recommended by a friend whose husband is diabetic. He drives 2 hours to an NP that does not follow "protocol" at all. So...I guess that's that!

My problem now is that I've invested 2 months into NK and still think that I may be one of those that needs to hang in there for 6 months! so, going back to nonfat would undo that 1/3 timeframe into the 6 months. Oh, what to do, what to do?

I love these little icons!!!!! So happy I was told how to do them. I'm off to the gym to take out my frustration on the weights!

Thanks again Buffy.

Hi Shelley - have you said and I missed it whether you've ever had an hba1c test?

[mom2zeke]

Shelley--First a big . I can't imagine how frustrated you are right now. You may have already posted this but why did you give up on the nonfat diet and start with Atkins induction?

Also, could you post some menus? We're all here to help as much as we can with our limited experience!

[omatic]

Originally Posted by shelley

I went through all that 3 years ago and have gotten myself to a really good range. No problems there. I sleep 7.5 hours solid every night (lately with the darkness it's closer to 8 hours). I'm well optimized with thyroid too. So, all is well there. I also was able to get OFF all BHRT this last summer by eating LC and having more fat (pre NK eating - Atkins induction) All horrible symptoms went away. But it's a good thought...and 3 years ago I would have said I was "near death" with the lowest possible score for adrenal function....horrible experience which is long behind me, thank goodness!!!

Very good! Mark that off the list

[omatic]

Originally Posted by shelley

Fasting glucose this morning before breakfast was 105. 1 hour after breakfast, glucose was 82.

What does all this mean to you?

Dawn Phenomenon
The dawn phenomenon is the name for high blood sugar levels in people with diabetes between 2 a.m. and 8 a.m., says the Mayo Clinic. It is attributable to natural body changes that occur while you sleep. When you are in your deepest sleep, usually between midnight and 3 a.m., your body has little need for insulin. According to the Cleveland Clinic, any insulin you take during the evening causes your blood sugar levels to drop sharply at this time. Between 3 a.m. and 8 a.m., your bedtime dose of insulin is starting to wear off and your body also starts to release stored glucose in preparation for your day ahead and hormones that make your body less sensitive to insulin. This combination of events means high blood sugar levels when you wake up.


Why Is My Blood Glucose Level Higher When I First Wake Up? | LIVESTRONG.COM

[SouthernGirl61]

Hi to All! Wecome Debby and Geogeo! I have been out of town since last Thursday, lots to read and catch up on. Thoughts and prayers for you all on the East Coast with "Sandy"...been through three hurricane hits living here, 2 living previous city, and so many tropical storms, lost count. Stay in and safe. And remember, it will get better, sometimes it takes a few weeks, or months, but it will get back to normal.

So before I left on long weekend trip, I got my labs back from "GYN check up"...I know know why I have "stalled for 18 months"....I apparently went storming through menopause, and had to clue, I landed in Post-Meno at 51. Hum. Well, makes a bit of sense now. I feel incredibly lucky not to have had any major issues, but the frustration with the "no loss" is overwhelming at times. I know EXACTLY how you feel Shelly. I did have a major loss of 50-60 lbs years back; then bounced through several 10lb up and down, now settled at just about 7lbs from goal weight of 120. My lowest was 103, which was "not pretty" and that was on No Carb. I did find several health issues along the way that contributed to my issues...food allergies that came back with a hard-punch at 40...wheat, corn, soy, spinach, pine nuts,food chemicals, additives, preservatives...the list is long....! I have researched so much on food allergies, and food sensitivies, different conditions. I know anything with gluten sets me off too. I do not eat sugar period; no forms but fruit, which is no more than a few times during the summer. Shelly, I don't cheat, don't overeat, get exercise, take many vitamins, monitor protein/carbs, and still I haven't lost much on NK (net down 2lbs) ...I have a history of losing on LC, HP...but I was also over-exercising and not in PMeno. I am now realizing the PMeno is likely my answer to some of this, and a new battle is going on in my body. I have no intention of giving in to this, as I do love not being hungry and feeling great. In control. I agree with Buffy, you need a good doctor. I have to travel 6 hours to my drug/food allergist; there are so few in the country. In Houston, there is a great clinic of doctors that take the patient in a "team format" when others cannot diagnose the problem. You may want to research and consider an appointment. Shopping in the Houston area is wonderful too! The Diagnostic Clinic of Houston. If that is out of the question, look to a Medical School in your state; they are a great place for the latest and best workups. Residents are really docs, but still learning, and there is a teaching MD with them/in clinic all the time, and working cases too. They love a mystery, so they usually get very intense with solving the puzzle. Likely your local doctors are just so busy with the overwhelming paperwork and routine stuff that they don't find any spark with us "oddies". Keep searching for the answer.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Hi Shelley - have you said and I missed it whether you've ever had an hba1c test?

Yes, I asked the doc in April to run it when my fasting glucose levels had been in the 98-101 range for the past 6 years. Result was 5.8 in a range of 4.0 to 6.0). Buffy said with my lowcarb/Atkins induction eating of a long time before the test, that it wasn't a great score, should have been much lower.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61

Hi to All! Wecome Debby and Geogeo! I have been out of town since last Thursday, lots to read and catch up on. Thoughts and prayers for you all on the East Coast with "Sandy"...been through three hurricane hits living here, 2 living previous city, and so many tropical storms, lost count. Stay in and safe. And remember, it will get better, sometimes it takes a few weeks, or months, but it will get back to normal.

So before I left on long weekend trip, I got my labs back from "GYN check up"...I know know why I have "stalled for 18 months"....I apparently went storming through menopause, and had to clue, I landed in Post-Meno at 51. Hum. Well, makes a bit of sense now. I feel incredibly lucky not to have had any major issues, but the frustration with the "no loss" is overwhelming at times. I know EXACTLY how you feel Shelly. I did have a major loss of 50-60 lbs years back; then bounced through several 10lb up and down, now settled at just about 7lbs from goal weight of 120. My lowest was 103, which was "not pretty" and that was on No Carb. I did find several health issues along the way that contributed to my issues...food allergies that came back with a hard-punch at 40...wheat, corn, soy, spinach, pine nuts,food chemicals, additives, preservatives...the list is long....! I have researched so much on food allergies, and food sensitivies, different conditions. I know anything with gluten sets me off too. I do not eat sugar period; no forms but fruit, which is no more than a few times during the summer. Shelly, I don't cheat, don't overeat, get exercise, take many vitamins, monitor protein/carbs, and still I haven't lost much on NK (net down 2lbs) ...I have a history of losing on LC, HP...but I was also over-exercising and not in PMeno. I am now realizing the PMeno is likely my answer to some of this, and a new battle is going on in my body. I have no intention of giving in to this, as I do love not being hungry and feeling great. In control. I agree with Buffy, you need a good doctor. I have to travel 6 hours to my drug/food allergist; there are so few in the country. In Houston, there is a great clinic of doctors that take the patient in a "team format" when others cannot diagnose the problem. You may want to research and consider an appointment. Shopping in the Houston area is wonderful too! The Diagnostic Clinic of Houston. If that is out of the question, look to a Medical School in your state; they are a great place for the latest and best workups. Residents are really docs, but still learning, and there is a teaching MD with them/in clinic all the time, and working cases too. They love a mystery, so they usually get very intense with solving the puzzle. Likely your local doctors are just so busy with the overwhelming paperwork and routine stuff that they don't find any spark with us "oddies". Keep searching for the answer.

SG.....I wondered where you were! Glad you have the answer...and it's possibly the same as mine. I'm about 15 years ahead of you on menopause though! It's lovely!!!!!

No medical schools closer than Seattle which is a 9 hour drive (and not in the winter over the passes). I've been looking for a doc for 7 years of living here and have had no luck. I've even asked docs and nurses that live around me who they go to....nobody has one to recommend at all. It's sad.

I'm not giving up either. I decided to try the PM glucose testing today and it was most interesting. My dinner was turkey bacon soup (chicken broth based with butter and HWC and bacon!!!!) for dinner, and then I did the lowcarb 3 min. chocolate cake for dessert with a tbsp of butter on it. Waited an hour to test 1 hour PP glucose which was 95! What?!?! So, I just guess that I should forget the AM glucose testing. As far as weightloss....I don't know what to say!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by omatic

Dawn Phenomenon
The dawn phenomenon is the name for high blood sugar levels in people with diabetes between 2 a.m. and 8 a.m., says the Mayo Clinic. It is attributable to natural body changes that occur while you sleep. When you are in your deepest sleep, usually between midnight and 3 a.m., your body has little need for insulin. According to the Cleveland Clinic, any insulin you take during the evening causes your blood sugar levels to drop sharply at this time. Between 3 a.m. and 8 a.m., your bedtime dose of insulin is starting to wear off and your body also starts to release stored glucose in preparation for your day ahead and hormones that make your body less sensitive to insulin. This combination of events means high blood sugar levels when you wake up.


Why Is My Blood Glucose Level Higher When I First Wake Up? | LIVESTRONG.COM

This has come up several times, but does not apply to me as I'm not diabetic. My readings via blood draws (and not the Nova Max which I'm currently using) are all under 100 except for once 10 years ago when I was 101. Still pre-diabetic. Oh, and this year it was 107 but the doc was not interested in discussing even "diet" to lower the number. So, I can't use this as my reason as others have discussed this and the key is that the dawn effect is in diabetic bodies only.

[JMCM1]

Shelley, thanks.

You have really got me scratching my head!

There are lots of smart people here. Here's hoping something rings a bell for you!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Shelley--First a big . I can't imagine how frustrated you are right now. You may have already posted this but why did you give up on the nonfat diet and start with Atkins induction?

Also, could you post some menus? We're all here to help as much as we can with our limited experience!

Thanks Kristn.....I even had Red go to my fitdays (gave him permission) and check out everything...he doesn't get it either. Maybe SouthernGirl is right and it has something to do with menopause and people "close" to goal weight. But I'm 25# from my goal and that, to me, isn't "close".

My usual is 45 to 60 grams of protein, under 20 total carbs and 140-155 fat. My calories have been altered to see if that made a difference....1150 to 1300 and then 1400-1600 and even 1950 one day (and that was the day I lost with a whoosh afterwards). Go figure.

Breakfast is usually bacon or spam or else fat bombs and bulletproof coffee. Sometimes I will have an egg with the bacon.

I don't generally have "lunch" per se as if I'm at teh gym, I will have a small protein shake in almond milk (unsweetened) and some HWC afterwards in the car before heading home. Dinner is a protein/meat and sometimes I will have a small amount of veggie. I don't have a set plan, but I chart everything every single day on ****** and also have a graph of my weight, calories, fat in grams/percentage (80-83% usually), and protein (usually 13-17%) and carbs (usually 3-4%).

I am so determined to have this work. As far as the nonfat and being 20# lighter. I was doing Body For Life to perfection. Nonfat eating and 3 days of heavy lifting, 2 days of cardio/HIIT and 2 days of a really hard Pilates mat class (same day as one HIIT and one lower body weights) I worked HARD! And that is not something I care to do again. It consumed me! But I was fit, thin and a size 8 very easily. I'm too old now to do that again (a whole year older!!! )

[MerryKate]

Originally Posted by shelley

What does all this mean to you? That I shouldn't bother testing for glucose in the AM before food? And why would it be higher after fasting than after eating fat/protein?

Someone already talked about the dawn phenomenon, so I'll skip that. The lower number after eating is the result of the insulin in your system kicking in. 82 is a good number - it indicates you're not getting a strong blood sugar rise from your food, which is to be expected on a low-carb diet. The real key would be a high number an hour after eating - that would indicate your body is producing a strong insulin response to a particular food you ate (and you'd probably want to stop eating that food, IMHO).

Everyone has a different response to food; Jimmy Moore posted an interesting series of blood sugar tests in response to low-carb foods on his blog. He got a strong response from some foods that produced no response at all in other people.

The theme of the week seems to be: you have to find out what works best for your body, and stick with that.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Shelley, thanks.

You have really got me scratching my head!

There are lots of smart people here. Here's hoping something rings a bell for you!

Thanks Judy...I totally agree about scratching my head (and you yours) over this. I'm doing everything right. My husband is just so sorry for me as he sees me struggling with the outcome and not giving in to his way of eating. I cook his regular foods as he can eat anything and lose 5# overnight by not having the smallest thing! I can only "assume" it has to do with my lack of muscle mass or else my near anorexia for years and years as a dancer. I was rail thin...20# or so underweight for years! I think *that* must have really messed me up, and "perhaps" my nonfat, over exercising last year that had me 20# lighter is what my body is used to????? But do I really have to go back to that lifestyle to be fit again? Nah...I'm much "healthier" now with my endocrine system...don't want to go back to the issues I had (like SouthernGirl was speaking of) when I pushed with the exercise and not eating. Sometimes meals were glasses of water! Not a good way to live.

[MerryKate]

Originally Posted by shelley

Oh, and this year it was 107 but the doc was not interested in discussing even "diet" to lower the number.

That strikes me as reason enough to find another doctor. You're motivated and willing to change your lifestyle to avoid a disease, and she wouldn't help you? Sheesh.

I had one other comment - you mentioned that you got a whoosh after eating 1900+ one night. Is there any chance that you're not eating enough calories consistently? Perhaps you need to re-calcuate your protein and eat higher calories to be sure you get the right macros. It may mean eating 1800-1900 calories to stay in ketosis.

[jillybean720]

Originally Posted by shelley

And why would it be higher after fasting than after eating fat/protein?

I just ventured into this thread for the first time, but I see a couple others have already said what I was going to say in response to this question: dawn phenomenon. As I understand it in a nutshell, everybody's liver releases additional glucose around the time you wake up to help, well, wake you up. However, as a diabetic without either sufficient insulin release or sufficient insulin sensitivity, we can't cover that additional glucose release like a non-diabetic would.

Originally Posted by shelley

I just did the 2 hr PP test for glucose and should have stuck with my happy 82 above. But 2 hours after my bfast and not having anything else, the test was 103...
My problem now is that I've invested 2 months into NK and still think that I may be one of those that needs to hang in there for 6 months! so, going back to nonfat would undo that 1/3 timeframe into the 6 months. Oh, what to do, what to do?

Please remember that home glucose meters can have up to a 20% margin of error. The 103 could really be 123 or could really be 83. Next time you test, test twice in a row. I bet you get two different readings. I have gotten readings 10 points apart within 2 minutes. In this particular case, I would venture to guess the 82 was the flukier figure, as your fasting and 2-hour pp were so close.

Another thought: while many sources say fat never converts to glucose, I've read more than once that the body can convert certain fatty acids into glycogen (which converts to glucose). Maybe your body is more efficient at converting these fats than most? From Wikipedia (not my usual go-to resource for factual information, but explained it more succinctly than most other sources):

Whether even-chain fatty acids can be converted into glucose in animals has been a longstanding question in biochemistry.[10] It is known that odd-chain fatty acids can be oxidized to yield propionyl CoA, a precursor for succinyl CoA, which can be converted to pyruvate and enter into gluconeogenesis. In plants, specifically seedlings, the glyoxylate cycle can be used to convert fatty acids (acetate) into the primary carbon source of the organism. The glyoxylate cycle produces four-carbon dicarboxylic acids that can enter gluconeogenesis.[8]

8. Garrett, Reginald H.; Charles M. Grisham (2002). Principles of Biochemistry with a Human Focus. USA: Brooks/Cole, Thomson Learning. pp. 578, 585. ISBN 0-03-097369-4.
10. Figueiredo, Luis F., Stefan Schuster, Christoph Kaleta, David A. Fell (2009). "Can sugars be produced from fatty acids? A test case for pathway analysis tools". Bioinformatics 25 (1): 152–158. doi:10.1093/bioinformatics/btn621. PMID 19117076.

I'm having a hard time finding examples of foods that contain odd-chain fatty acids...

How were your glucose levels on the non-fat diet?

[jillybean720]

Originally Posted by shelley

This has come up several times, but does not apply to me as I'm not diabetic. My readings via blood draws (and not the Nova Max which I'm currently using) are all under 100 except for once 10 years ago when I was 101. Still pre-diabetic. Oh, and this year it was 107 but the doc was not interested in discussing even "diet" to lower the number. So, I can't use this as my reason as others have discussed this and the key is that the dawn effect is in diabetic bodies only.

If you are "pre-diabetic" (which is a debatable term in itself, as many believe you are diabetic or you're not - kind of like you can't be "a little bit pregnant" - you either are or you aren't!), then you likely have insulin resistance, which absolutely could result in some dawn phenomenon.

[jillybean720]

Originally Posted by shelley

Yes, I asked the doc in April to run it when my fasting glucose levels had been in the 98-101 range for the past 6 years. Result was 5.8 in a range of 4.0 to 6.0). Buffy said with my lowcarb/Atkins induction eating of a long time before the test, that it wasn't a great score, should have been much lower.

I would agree. At a minimum, I would expect it should have been below 5.5. Quite frankly, a lot of the "normal ranges" allowed before diagnosing an issue are not in line with what would actually be indicative of good health (this goes for fasting glucose, A1C, and a whole host of vitamins and minerals!).

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by shelley

Thanks Kristn.....I even had Red go to my fitdays (gave him permission) and check out everything...he doesn't get it either. Maybe SouthernGirl is right and it has something to do with menopause and people "close" to goal weight. But I'm 25# from my goal and that, to me, isn't "close".

Well I'm in peri-menopause and lost my last 25#. I think there's something more going on.

My usual is 45 to 60 grams of protein, under 20 total carbs and 140-155 fat. My calories have been altered to see if that made a difference....1150 to 1300 and then 1400-1600 and even 1950 one day (and that was the day I lost with a whoosh afterwards). Go figure.

Breakfast is usually bacon or spam or else fat bombs and bulletproof coffee. Sometimes I will have an egg with the bacon.

I don't generally have "lunch" per se as if I'm at teh gym, I will have a small protein shake in almond milk (unsweetened) and some HWC afterwards in the car before heading home. Dinner is a protein/meat and sometimes I will have a small amount of veggie. I don't have a set plan, but I chart everything every single day on ****** and also have a graph of my weight, calories, fat in grams/percentage (80-83% usually), and protein (usually 13-17%) and carbs (usually 3-4%).

I am so determined to have this work. As far as the nonfat and being 20# lighter. I was doing Body For Life to perfection. Nonfat eating and 3 days of heavy lifting, 2 days of cardio/HIIT and 2 days of a really hard Pilates mat class (same day as one HIIT and one lower body weights) I worked HARD! And that is not something I care to do again. It consumed me! But I was fit, thin and a size 8 very easily. I'm too old now to do that again (a whole year older!!! )

I think you may be on to something with the low muscle mass and near anorexia. Eating too little and exercising too much definitely downregulates your metabolism. Were you able to increase your muscle mass when you were doing Body for Life?

Just a thought--have you considered trying not to lose for a while? If you concentrate on increasing your muscle mass and (hopefully) your metabolism you might be better able to lose in the future.

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!

I hope that everyone who has been or is being affected by Sandy is safe today.

My ketones were back up at 1.3 this morning. I can definitely see that keeping a handle on protein makes a world of difference for me in staying in ketosis. I'm sure the kettlebell class last night didn't hurt either.

I broke down and ordered more strips from American Diabetes Warehouse. It doesn't look like CVS will be getting them back in for now. It's too bad because CVS seems to have regular sales where everything is a certain % off.

How is everyone else doing this morning?

[clackley]

The issue of elevated fasting b.g. levels can be attributed to physiological insulin resistance which is different from pathological insulin resistance. It is discussed here...

Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance