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Old 10-27-2012, 11:42 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by shelley View Post
I wasn't able to find what you are referring to other than he says berries are ok on occasion if it doesn't stall you, which is what most people say/have said and written. Please enlighten me about the "diet tip" that you found interesting and want to pass along. Thanks!
I suspect Shelly is referring to Dr. Eenfeldt's diet tip that women should cut fruit from their diets to lose weight because the fructose has such an impact on blood sugar levels. I mentally resisted giving up fruit until I started the NK WOE, but I haven't felt deprived, and the results have been worth it. I've finally gotten started losing again after cycling up and down through the same 5 lbs for months. I'm actually lower now than I was 6 years ago when I was working out like a maniac and starving myself, so I'll be skipping the fruit for the duration of my weight loss. I do expect to be able to add it in when I'm in maintenance.

But, as has been said before, not everything works the same way for everyone. My mom eats fruit and bread and is still losing, despite being post-menopausal and diabetic to boot. Go figure.
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:01 AM   #662
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Good Morning! Up at 6am on a Sunday, I sure wish I would have slept later. BK 1.3 and BG 75. I was very interested in the the readings this morning since I had movie theater popcorn with butter (fake - I wish they used real) last evening. I guess the good thing about popcorn that it is more fiber than sugars.

My food for the day:

Breakfast: 1tbsp MCT oil, one egg with one yolk fried in butter, one serving liverwurst

Lunch: Lobster Bisque with few bites of the hubby's chicken with a sour cream chipolte sauce (really good) and squash.

Dinner: POPCORN, 1 tbsp MCT,

Specials: one pat of butter with cocoa, two squares 80% chocolate
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:26 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Only about 5% of people who lose weight maintain the loss.
3 1/2 years ago I was at my high of 161 size 12, followed a LCHF diet and worked out with kettlebells and got down to 130 size 4. Then I hurt my shoulder and had a SAD pitty party for 9 months. Put on 18 lbs size 8.

I got to a point where my migraines were getting worse, my body ached and weight gain did not look like it was going to stop. I had thrown away all of my larger sized clothes. I refused to buy larger sizes and looked like a tightly wrapped sausage. I sat back as asked "What are you doing to yourself?".

It is so easy to slip back with some many factors being involved in our lives, emotional states and food relationships.

Support from others, loving and educating yourself are so important.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:21 AM   #664
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Support from others, loving and educating yourself are so important.
Your comment has encouraged me to ask a question that has been rolling around in my head:

Is there a spiritual component to what we are doing? I don't mean specifically nutritional ketosis - but participating in this online forum. Is the sharing of questions and concerns the component that contributes to reaching the "goal" and is perhaps MORE important that the actual WOE?

My deep though for the day....

Peace

Joe E O
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:43 AM   #665
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Dear Shelley
The site is dietdoctor.com - Dr. Eenfeldt is trying to emphasize that any sugar - fructose or sucrose is sugar and has a negative effect on blood sugars. Which ultimately means it can interfere with weight loss. It is part of his promised 17 part series on how to loss weight by eating real food that is high fat low carb- although he doesn't particularly emphasize moderate protein he does emphasize satiety. He has positioned himself as the North American face for Sweden's hflc movement. As other astute posters have emphasized this WOE has to be tailored according to our own reaction to specific foods and quantities. This is where the Ketones can provide a portal into our individual chemistries.
Maureen
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:54 AM   #666
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Dear Joe
Interesting thought. Perhaps itis the sense of community that keeps our focus and doesn't encourage that going off the rails that so often has happened to me at or near goal. I really feel that the journey has to be realistic and manageable. Otherwise all the white knuckling to get to a certain weight becomes overwhelming and eventually the Sad creeps in. What I find encouraging about this WOE is the variety and the satiety that accompanies it. Hopefully making it sustainable for the long haul. The sense of community supports staying on track.
Maureen
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:31 AM   #667
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Good morning everyone! Ketones at .7 this morning. I am happy about that as we went to a birthday party last night and I ate way more protein and possibly more carbs than I would usually eat. I brought guacamole with veggies and pork rinds and I ate quite a few of the pork rinds. Other than that there wasn't much for me to eat besides protein but I tried to eat a reasonable portion but enough to keep me from munching on anything high-carb.

I also measured this morning and I am down 1/4 inch on my thighs (everything else is the same). I am very happy about that--definitely my problem area!

How is everyone else doing? We are thankfully far from any weather warnings but my thoughts are with those of you bracing for severe weather today!
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:01 AM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasonnier View Post
Thanks for the tips guys! I focused on eating more salt and more fat today, and I also had more protein- although I don't know how much exactly (I had guests today for lunch and I don't feel comfortable weighing out my food on those rare occasions). In any case- I feel much much better! That salt made a major difference. I had a salad w/romaine as well as some chicken and ground beef, pretty much doused it all in oil and was quite generous in the salt!! Good thing I love fat and salt ;-)

When I can get out tomorrow, I'll pick up some potassium as well.
I'm glad you're feeling better!

Quote:
Quick question- I make chicken soup weekly for my family, only in the soup I include butternut squash, carrots, sweet potato, onion, etc...Do you guys think the broth has a significant amount of carbs in it? Is it better to avoid soups that have those root veggies (even if I am only eating the broth)? Thanks for the input!
I would approach this broth cautiously and see how it effects your efforts.

Quote:
One other thing- I have looked back through the threads and the calculation I keep finding on how to calculate suggested protein intake confuses me to no end. I am 5'2", 34yrs old and currently weigh 144, can someone please help me! I'm concerned that my initial idea of 45g of protein was just too low for me- but I'm not really sure. What method of protein calculation worked for you?

Thanks again all!
I did a little bit of calculation based on your earlier posts. Let me know if my assumptions are wrong. You want to lose 20-30 pounds from 144 so I assumed:
Goal weight: 114
Goal BF%: 25% (I just made this up--let me know if you have a different BF% goal)
The Phinney/Volek calculation for your height and goal weight would be:

114*.75 (Goal LBM%) = 85.5
85.5*.6=51.3
85.5*1=85.5

So using their calculations your protein gram range would be 51-86.

I found that staying on the lower end of my range helped me with ketosis and weight-loss. In maintenance I try to stay on the low to mid-range of this calculation. Consistently being at the top of the range knocks me out of ketosis--YMMV.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:06 AM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One maur time View Post
Dear Kristn
You have done so well with NK. I have been testing consistently since 9/12. I wonder whether being "deeper" into Ketosis really delivers greater benefits or is being on the lower end ok or somewhat diluted? I know from Phinney Volek that above 3 doesn't deliver additional benefits.
These are great questions! I know that when I was losing I was definitely getting higher readings consistently. I do think that there may be an element of eating less and tapping into your body's fat stores that gives a higher ketone reading--but that's just my opinion based on my own observations.

Quote:
You have done so well in maintenance. I guess just like in the weight loss phase you need to test to figure out your own tolerance and you will need to find the ratios for peak performance in maintenance.

Maureen
Exactly--that's my goal. Phinney and Volek talk a lot about personalized nutrition in their book and it makes a lot of sense to me. We're all going to have different tolerance levels for protein and carbs and the meter is a tool to help figure that out.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:14 AM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omatic View Post
3 1/2 years ago I was at my high of 161 size 12, followed a LCHF diet and worked out with kettlebells and got down to 130 size 4. Then I hurt my shoulder and had a SAD pitty party for 9 months. Put on 18 lbs size 8.

I got to a point where my migraines were getting worse, my body ached and weight gain did not look like it was going to stop. I had thrown away all of my larger sized clothes. I refused to buy larger sizes and looked like a tightly wrapped sausage. I sat back as asked "What are you doing to yourself?".

It is so easy to slip back with some many factors being involved in our lives, emotional states and food relationships.
It's not just these factors, there are physiological changes that happen when you lose weight that make it very difficult to maintain. You are fighting against your own body's desire to go back to that earlier, higher weight.

Quote:
Support from others, loving and educating yourself are so important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeEO View Post
Your comment has encouraged me to ask a question that has been rolling around in my head:

Is there a spiritual component to what we are doing? I don't mean specifically nutritional ketosis - but participating in this online forum. Is the sharing of questions and concerns the component that contributes to reaching the "goal" and is perhaps MORE important that the actual WOE?

My deep though for the day....

Peace

Joe E O
I think that it's both. A lot of what I thought was emotional eating disappeared when I started LC. That's when I realized that this WOE was for life and that if I went back to my old ways all of those issues would resurface.

I did find that having the support of others following your same WOE was amazingly helpful and also that having a place to report your results and your ups and downs with a group of people who were/are going through the same thing is invaluable. That's why when I started losing again I came right back to LCF, the place that has helped me so much over the years.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:38 AM   #671
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Originally Posted by MerryKate View Post
I suspect Shelly is referring to Dr. Eenfeldt's diet tip that women should cut fruit from their diets to lose weight because the fructose has such an impact on blood sugar levels. I mentally resisted giving up fruit until I started the NK WOE, but I haven't felt deprived, and the results have been worth it. I've finally gotten started losing again after cycling up and down through the same 5 lbs for months. I'm actually lower now than I was 6 years ago when I was working out like a maniac and starving myself, so I'll be skipping the fruit for the duration of my weight loss. I do expect to be able to add it in when I'm in maintenance.

But, as has been said before, not everything works the same way for everyone. My mom eats fruit and bread and is still losing, despite being post-menopausal and diabetic to boot. Go figure.
Hi..somehow my name got connected to the 2 people writing about fruit (was not me), and now it continues. I do not eat fruit and haven't for a couple years other than a few raspberries now and then. I don't eat ANY grains whatsoever, even a bite....a no no for me. I only miss the breads when I toast some for hubby. today he wanted pancakes. Smelled good to me, but I don't dare! Anyway, don't recall who was talking about the fruits, but I believe it was a newbie and Kristn commented on it.....not me though.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:46 AM   #672
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Dear Shelley
The site is dietdoctor.com - Dr. Eenfeldt is trying to emphasize that any sugar - fructose or sucrose is sugar and has a negative effect on blood sugars. Which ultimately means it can interfere with weight loss. It is part of his promised 17 part series on how to loss weight by eating real food that is high fat low carb- although he doesn't particularly emphasize moderate protein he does emphasize satiety. He has positioned himself as the North American face for Sweden's hflc movement. As other astute posters have emphasized this WOE has to be tailored according to our own reaction to specific foods and quantities. This is where the Ketones can provide a portal into our individual chemistries.
Maureen
Thanks Maureen...I did find his site and looked around, but nothing new for me. I have done years of lowcarb, I have done body for life which was nonfat and lots of weights (that's how I lost 20# that I have regained doing Atkins induction and 2 months of NK). I have not had grains in years....10-12? On a rare occasion I would have a bit of yam or a bit of rice at a restaurant, but maybe 1-2 times a year? I haven't had "fruit" in a few years and I do miss the taste of summer peaches, but I just smell hubby's!

I took my weekly measurements and weight this morning (as I do every Sunday morning). Ketones are still .8 which is good.....glucose was 107 (back up), weight up 1.6# (it's been steadily climbing and I'm blaming the weights this last week), and my inches have also increased (again, weights increasing muscles in the derrierre?!?!!?!)

I am doing "everything" right. I have read both Phinney/Volek books and read their blogs and others. I did a year of Atkins induction before NK and that helped me to gain the 20# back that I lost.

There are a few of us that are just unable to get into deep ketosis, or even get into ketosis at times. I wish it were as simple as giving up fruit and breads...but I did that years and years ago. And, when I cold turkeyed the gluten, I gained. I gained on Weight Watchers. I gained on STRICT Atkins induction.

I do not understand other than to keep the hope that it really does take some 6 months....I'm heading into month #3 so we shall see. I'm holding strong and staying the course although this week I went back UP a pants size and am not terribly happy. But I went to Goodwill and bought 2 pairs of pants to hold me until I have a massive whoosh!!!! Oh, don't I wish! I am not cheating. Really, I am not.

But again, don't know how my name got attached to this fruit thing at all. Maybe it was because of me being out of ketosis and glucose being so darned high that it was "assumed" that I was eating grains and fruit???
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #673
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Shelly, forgive me for asking you this, more than once. But, I don't think I saw an answer from you. Have you been to an endocrinologist? I just keep reading your posts and my thoughts go to diabetes, or at the least, very very strong insulin resistance. If so, the meds they would put you on would really give you a boost.

Another of my LC friends recently saw a Dr. who put her on a very small dose of metformin for insulin resistance, they called it something else, but I think that is what it is.

Please forgive me is you have answered this before, just trying to help and it is hard to get a handle on each person's particular issues.

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Old 10-28-2012, 11:38 AM   #674
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Shelley--hopefully you're just retaining water from the weight lifting! I can't imagine how frustrating this must be for you.

I wonder if you have considered lowering your fat amount slightly? That's Dr. Phinney's recommendation if you're in ketosis and not losing.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:55 PM   #675
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Thanks Ella, cool.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:14 PM   #676
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Originally Posted by EllaP View Post
EDIT2: I see the creator just added a link to a BF% calculator. Guess I'll dig out a tape measure later and give it a try. (lots of great links within the calculator)
Interesting BF calculator. When I put in my measurements I get 23.3%. Not sure if it's really accurate, but I like that number.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:26 PM   #677
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Thanks for the link! Are you putting in your goal weight or your current weight?
I put in my current weight, since I was looking for numbers for weight loss.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:51 PM   #678
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I put in my current weight, since I was looking for numbers for weight loss.
Do you just subtract fat grams from the recommended maintenance amounts for your weight-loss goals? It seems like it may be more useful to enter goal numbers (weight and fat%) rather than current for this purpose that way one would know how much protein is needed to support one's goal weight and LBM and then reduce fat from there to induce weight loss.

The calculator does seem pretty spot on for maintenance. The protein and calorie levels are pretty much in line with what has been working for me so far.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:58 PM   #679
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Interesting BF calculator. When I put in my measurements I get 23.3%. Not sure if it's really accurate, but I like that number.
I just did this and came up with 30% BF, which comparing this to my new scale is the same number.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:14 PM   #680
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Do you just subtract fat grams from the recommended maintenance amounts for your weight-loss goals? It seems like it may be more useful to enter goal numbers (weight and fat%) rather than current for this purpose that way one would know how much protein is needed to support one's goal weight and LBM and then reduce fat from there to induce weight loss.

The calculator does seem pretty spot on for maintenance. The protein and calorie levels are pretty much in line with what has been working for me so far.
I was mostly looking at it as confirmation of the numbers I'm working with now. I'm very much into NK with fasting blood ketone numbers always in the 3.2+ range and I'm losing one to two pounds a week (more often one), but I do have to keep my calories very close to 1200 and below. I always keep total carbs below 20, usually way below 20, and protein up to 60, so my fat grams are pretty much self-adjusting in keeping my calories where I want. I tried upping calories to 1400 for 3 days and the scale didn't budge - I know it was a short trial, but I didn't want to waste any more 'losing' days. It just felt weird to force fat in me just for the number's sake when I wasn't particularly hungry. If I actually ate based solely on hunger , I could easily do just 800 calories a day. Thankfully, I start every day with 100+ calories from coconut oil in my coffee and I do love food, so I don't have too much trouble getting 1100-1200.

Using the keto calculator and my current stats, it confirms 60 for protein. If I use my goal weight stats in the calculator, it allows me higher protein, which may stop my weight loss. I'm looking forward to maintenance (hopefully by the new year) and higher calories and protein.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:32 PM   #681
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I was mostly looking at it as confirmation of the numbers I'm working with now. I'm very much into NK with fasting blood ketone numbers always in the 3.2+ range and I'm losing one to two pounds a week (more often one), but I do have to keep my calories very close to 1200 and below. I always keep total carbs below 20, usually way below 20, and protein up to 60, so my fat grams are pretty much self-adjusting in keeping my calories where I want. I tried upping calories to 1400 for 3 days and the scale didn't budge - I know it was a short trial, but I didn't want to waste any more 'losing' days. It just felt weird to force fat in me just for the number's sake when I wasn't particularly hungry. If I actually ate based solely on hunger , I could easily do just 800 calories a day. Thankfully, I start every day with 100+ calories from coconut oil in my coffee and I do love food, so I don't have too much trouble getting 1100-1200.

Using the keto calculator and my current stats, it confirms 60 for protein. If I use my goal weight stats in the calculator, it allows me higher protein, which may stop my weight loss. I'm looking forward to maintenance (hopefully by the new year) and higher calories and protein.
It sounds like you have really figured out what works for you! Congrats on your losses.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:35 PM   #682
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I just did this and came up with 30% BF, which comparing this to my new scale is the same number.
I feel like this one might be more accurate for me than other ones I've used. I carry my weight mostly on my hips and thighs and both of these are measured on this one.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:55 PM   #683
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Dear Shelley
I may be the culprit. Sorry.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:55 PM   #684
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Shelly, forgive me for asking you this, more than once. But, I don't think I saw an answer from you. Have you been to an endocrinologist? I just keep reading your posts and my thoughts go to diabetes, or at the least, very very strong insulin resistance. If so, the meds they would put you on would really give you a boost.

Another of my LC friends recently saw a Dr. who put her on a very small dose of metformin for insulin resistance, they called it something else, but I think that is what it is.

Please forgive me is you have answered this before, just trying to help and it is hard to get a handle on each person's particular issues.

Hi Buffy...I have only seen endos for thyroid and they were really horrible. I guess they are good at diabetes and not with thyroid issues!

I do annual physicals and always ask the docs about my fasting glucose....usually 99-105 and this year it was 107 and I freaked out (April). I asked about it and the doc laughed and said she doesn't even think about glucose readings until they are 120 or above.

Taking my own readings first thing in the AM have been all over the place with the Nova Max. Sept they ranged from 92 to 115 (11 readings in the 90's and 6 in the 100's). October has ranged from 88 to 125 (1 88, 3 in the 90's, 11 over 100). So, I have not been diagnosed as Type II diabetic by any of the docs I have ever seen, including this year with a reading of 107. And she never asked me what/how I ate, only wanted me on statins...that was her only concern. We don't have many docs where I live!
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:57 PM   #685
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Dear Shelley
I may be the culprit. Sorry.
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Oh my gosh...it was *you* Maureen!!!!!!! I love the word culprit.....too funny

No problem...I just didn't want the person who had asked about re-introducing fruits to feel left out and not get her questions answered.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:13 PM   #686
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Hi Buffy...I have only seen endos for thyroid and they were really horrible. I guess they are good at diabetes and not with thyroid issues!

I do annual physicals and always ask the docs about my fasting glucose....usually 99-105 and this year it was 107 and I freaked out (April). I asked about it and the doc laughed and said she doesn't even think about glucose readings until they are 120 or above.

Taking my own readings first thing in the AM have been all over the place with the Nova Max. Sept they ranged from 92 to 115 (11 readings in the 90's and 6 in the 100's). October has ranged from 88 to 125 (1 88, 3 in the 90's, 11 over 100). So, I have not been diagnosed as Type II diabetic by any of the docs I have ever seen, including this year with a reading of 107. And she never asked me what/how I ate, only wanted me on statins...that was her only concern. We don't have many docs where I live!
The day I went to the Dr. and my fasting BG was 125, then they had me come back in for further diabetes testing, and then called to tell me I did have it. So, say you had gone in that morning that it was 125, they might have tested you further. You may not be what they term diabetic yet, but from your fasting readings, I certainly think you might be headed there. Now, I am no expert at all, and your Dr. probably knows best, but to me, they seem to just seem unconcerned, and then when you HAVE it, they begin to treat you. What concerns me about your readings is that you are getting these while eating low carb. I was eating high carb, can you think what your readings might be if you were eating the SAD?

It just seems to me that this might be why you are having so much trouble losing weight, but, that is because I was the same, no matter what I did, I could not lose weight until I got on metformin.

Keep working on it, and best of luck to you!
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:19 PM   #687
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Dear Ella
Great post. reddit really did us all a favor. I'm never sure what you are supposed to put for the body fat calculator.
Maureen
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:37 PM   #688
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I'm very much into NK with fasting blood ketone numbers always in the 3.2+ range and I'm losing one to two pounds a week (more often one), but I do have to keep my calories very close to 1200 and below.
Wow, I have not seen BK above 1.8 and can't seem to keep my calories below 1500. Lower than that and I am hungry.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:51 PM   #689
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Dear Shelley
Thanks. Like you I have not been diagnosed a pre -diabetic or diabetic. But I frequently test over 100 in the am. Also no fruit or grains for me. Although I might give some credence to the protein glucose dump discussed last week. Where a poster shared that if you are very efficient at converting protein to glucose it results in a dump of around 65 g of glucose- could give unusually high fasting glucose reading.

Maureen
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:55 PM   #690
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Wow, I have not seen BK above 1.8 and can't seem to keep my calories below 1500. Lower than that and I am hungry.
Same with me, I have kept my calories below 1400 but it is a constant struggle and I don't want to have to do that unless I just can't lose without doing it. My ketones are usually 1. something too. That is first thing in the AM, I know they get higher as the day goes on, but I figure that might be fairly accurate and it is just my benchmark to know I am on track with what I am eating.

Ella, how old are you and what is your level of activity? You are really doing well
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