October Nutritional Ketosis Thread!

[One maur time]

Originally Posted by dianajlane

I have been using the following scale recently:

Weight Watchers By Conair Ww24w Digital Painted Glass Scale, Painted Glass

I decided to check out the Amazon reviews today because of the weird thing the scale did this morning, where my weight jumped up 0.7 lbs after I removed my watch.

I believe I have found an explanation:


So now I have the explanation: I weighed myself this morning and got yesterday's weight. Then DH weighed himself, and there was more than 2 pounds difference from my weight yesterday, so he got a true reading. Then I weighed myself again (minus the watch), and because my weight is more than two pounds different from his, I got what I guess is my true weight for this morning (so the higher reading was actually true)

But the scale is pretty much worthless for daily tracking of weight loss

Time to get another scale...
It's too bad because I like the look of it and the easy cleanability.
But a scale has to be accurate!

On second thought, I guess I could trick it by weighing myself while holding something that weighs more than two pounds;
then I could really weigh myself and get my true weight. But I'm annoyed that the scale instructions said nothing about this "feature".
I should probably send in a complaint to the manufacturer.

I am pleased to have found an explanation though.

Maybe that is a WW feature to keep you coming to meeting for two more weeks??LOL crazy- a scale with a built in torture feature - as if the number couldn't accomplish that on its own.

Maureen

[dianajlane]

Originally Posted by One maur time

Maybe that is a WW feature to keep you coming to meeting for two more weeks??LOL crazy- a scale with a built in torture feature - as if the number couldn't accomplish that on its own.

Maureen

My thought is they are trying to discourage people from weighing themselves obsessively,
but it's lame that the user manual doesn't say anything about it
(of course no one would buy it if it did)

Glad I finally figured it out (with a little help from the Amazon reviewers).

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone! My ketones are still low at .4, hopefully they'll go up soon. Weight was down slightly at 149.8 (down .6). If I don't see higher ketones by next week I'm going to start tinkering with what I eat. So many factors could be playing into this, TOM, jet lag, change of season. I need to be patient and keep doing the same things that got me into ketosis in the first place.

It was really hard to wake up this morning. I have the worst time getting my schedule back on track when I change time zones.

How is everyone else doing this morning?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by dianajlane

Yeah Jenny,

It took me a few minutes to think of that
And I will definitely start doing that tomorrow -
after all, I can't be asking DH to jump on every day between weighings.

Thanks

At least you can get your correct weight while you're waiting to get a new scale. It reminds me of the saying, "it's not a bug, it's a feature."

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61

Welcome back Kristn. Your pic is beautiful! And you held your numbers! I am getting caught up after a few days. You are dead on with that on "statement covering p-m women and young men"....since 50, the stall and lower metabolism hit me between the eyes. I was quite smug about eating liberally -- until 49 and 364 days.....!
Yea, no TOM on vacation!

Thanks! I go crazy when I see these blanket statements that are supposed to cover everyone. I have two young sons (20 & 16) who can eat anything and everything and they're in great shape. Any recommendation would work for them! I see these young guys on the internet giving advice based on their experience and just roll my eyes

I eat my carbs throughout the day, protein twice a day I think, if I get hungry I eat pure fat, that shuts it down ASAP. I have never felt so in control as with this NK. Hunger would get me, even eating way to much protein.

That's what I love about NK also! Keeps hunger and eating in control.

Originally Posted by One maur time

I have been struggling to get any real traction with the Ketones. I can get to .5 and if I'm super strict a .7- I don't know if that qualifies as ketosis. I have been following this WOE since early September and have faithfully tested ketones and glucose. I definitely see a correlation with lower Ketones and a heavy protein ladden meal the evening prior ( I test in a fasting state first thing in the AM).

I struggle with fat later in the day- In the mornings I have my own version of a fat bomb ( 2 Tbs of kerrygold butter with coconut cream in Chai Tea) preceded by 2 Tbs of Coconut oil diluted in warm water. Then maybe a strip or two of bacon maybe 1/2 avocado. As you might imagine I don't typically eat for 8-10 hours. But when I do I am starving.

I am thinking of incorporating Pirate Jenny's suggestion of spreading the carbs more evenly during the day to see if I have either cortisol stress from the lengthy fast or glucose dumping when I don't have an even stream of carbs and a large meal heavy on protein.

I would love any suggestions of fat consumption beyond the fat bombs. I find it difficult to get the fat later in the day other then consuming protein or butter on vegetables.

Maureen

Anything above .5 is considered ketosis. It seems like some people are doing heavy cream in diet soda as dessert later in the day. I like a mixture of cream cheese, cocoa powder and splenda.

Originally Posted by One maur time

Maybe that is a WW feature to keep you coming to meeting for two more weeks??LOL crazy- a scale with a built in torture feature - as if the number couldn't accomplish that on its own.

Maureen

Originally Posted by dianajlane

My thought is they are trying to discourage people from weighing themselves obsessively,
but it's lame that the user manual doesn't say anything about it
(of course no one would buy it if it did)

Glad I finally figured it out (with a little help from the Amazon reviewers).

I still don't understand the thinking behind this scale at all!

[piratejenny]

Originally Posted by One maur time

I struggle with fat later in the day-

I would love any suggestions of fat consumption beyond the fat bombs. I find it difficult to get the fat later in the day other then consuming protein or butter on vegetables.

I just had a little light bulb moment--for all NKers, perhaps....

Years ago, I read this book called The Shangri-La Diet.
The main thing you're supposed to do is eat 200-400 flavorless calories* (like light olive oil) a day; after a few days, it causes massive appetite suppression. The "trick" is, you must not have any flavors in your mouth for an hour before and an hour after. So, no gum or toothpaste or drinks of any kind besides plain water.

This may have sounded cuckoo-banana-pants to mainstream dieters a few years ago, but there's that whole "low-food-reward" movement now...maybe this is the grand-daddy of that!

It can be a little tricky to find that two-hour window, but if y'all are going long periods of the day not being hungry, it might not be that difficult.

I also used to do it in the middle of the night if I woke up to go to the bathroom, or if I woke up really early; I'd have some oil, drink some warm water (helped the oil go down easier than cold water), and just go back to bed & read for a while.

IIRC, you can also add the oil to a bottle of water and just give it a good shake before taking a sip. It will take a bit longer this way, so you'll have to give yourself a bigger window, but it's an option if you can't take oil right off a spoon.

Gosh! I haven't thought of this for quite a while; might have to try it again. Too bad I just brushed my teeth!

Anyway...NK + Shangri-La oil technique...could be perfect together???



*Calories could also be taken in the form of sugar water...but I imagine no one here would be interested in that!

[sunday]

Hey Jen, I remember the Shangri-La diet, that is very interesting...
How is everything going on the MM? I have not been able to check in lately and rarely have time here.

I wanted to add that Mac-Nuts (96% fat) are well known for helping folks lose weight or have a woosh when they are on extreme low cal/low fat and become stalled. Some hcg'ers have found that when they get to the point of no movement, adding about 5 nuts at bedtime helped to get a woosh.

[sasonnier]

Hey Guys/Gals! I've been following your thread here and there. I have a few questions for all of you.
First, a bit of background info on me- I have been eating Paleo (almost exclusively) for the past 1 1/2 yr. I started w/a good 20-30lbs to lose, and I'm still here w/a good 20-30lbs to lose. I am 5'2 and weight 144, 34yrs old. I recently added IFing, usually fasting for 19hrs and eating in a 5hr window. I have been doing this for the past 2 weeks, and feel ok with it. I have heard about NK through a variety of forums, and got interested as I have become increasingly intolerant of raw veggies- for no obvious reason. I have ordered Dr. Phinney's book, and am looking forward to reading it and getting more info on NK. However my main question is- don't you guys miss eating? I mean, it sounds like you guys don't eat much. I happen to have a history of binge eating- so I do love food. In fact, that's probably why I have such a hard time w/raw veggies...eating too many. I am having a hard time w/the idea of eating close to no veggies. I have tried eliminating most of my fruits, and was successful, so I'm not so concerned about that. However, I can't imagine feeling mentally satisfied from such a small meal- moderate protein, fat and a small bit of veggies. How do you guys cope mentally w/that? Or do you guys not struggle with that at all?

Any compulsive bingers on here?

Thanks for any feedback!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Hey Guys/Gals! I've been following your thread here and there. I have a few questions for all of you.
First, a bit of background info on me- I have been eating Paleo (almost exclusively) for the past 1 1/2 yr. I started w/a good 20-30lbs to lose, and I'm still here w/a good 20-30lbs to lose. I am 5'2 and weight 144, 34yrs old. I recently added IFing, usually fasting for 19hrs and eating in a 5hr window. I have been doing this for the past 2 weeks, and feel ok with it. I have heard about NK through a variety of forums, and got interested as I have become increasingly intolerant of raw veggies- for no obvious reason. I have ordered Dr. Phinney's book, and am looking forward to reading it and getting more info on NK. However my main question is- don't you guys miss eating? I mean, it sounds like you guys don't eat much. I happen to have a history of binge eating- so I do love food. In fact, that's probably why I have such a hard time w/raw veggies...eating too many. I am having a hard time w/the idea of eating close to no veggies. I have tried eliminating most of my fruits, and was successful, so I'm not so concerned about that. However, I can't imagine feeling mentally satisfied from such a small meal- moderate protein, fat and a small bit of veggies. How do you guys cope mentally w/that? Or do you guys not struggle with that at all?

Any compulsive bingers on here?

Thanks for any feedback!

Hi and welcome...I can only speak for myself, but I don't have any compulsive desire to overeat....the amount of fat we consume really makes us not hungry, and many of us have to try hard to get in more fat, protein and calories than perhaps we would eat if we weren't recording what we put in our mouths! I don't miss the carbs, but do miss the "idea" and "taste bud memory" of them.

I'm glad you ordered the book. It's a great book and will give you lots of information that makes it all seem like a great plan!

[sunday]

The first thing that I noticed when I upped my fat is that not only did my appetite become suppressed, but I don't ever desire snacks or sweets. I was already low carb prior to this, but I ate too much protein and even with JUDDD, I can't seem to ever remember having this much appetite suppression.

Today is my DD and I honestly don't think I will be hungry or want to eat anything the remainder of the day, I am that satiated on 400 calories.

[theLossgirl]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

However my main question is- don't you guys miss eating? I mean, it sounds like you guys don't eat much. Or do you guys not struggle with that at all?

I think probably almost all of us here have struggled with food in one way or another. If it sounds like we don't eat a whole lot of food now, it is not through tremendous self-control, lol! Not having insulin spikes, eating a lot of fat and few carbohydrates, and being in ketosis really quiets your appetite.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Hey Guys/Gals! I've been following your thread here and there. I have a few questions for all of you.
First, a bit of background info on me- I have been eating Paleo (almost exclusively) for the past 1 1/2 yr. I started w/a good 20-30lbs to lose, and I'm still here w/a good 20-30lbs to lose. I am 5'2 and weight 144, 34yrs old. I recently added IFing, usually fasting for 19hrs and eating in a 5hr window. I have been doing this for the past 2 weeks, and feel ok with it. I have heard about NK through a variety of forums, and got interested as I have become increasingly intolerant of raw veggies- for no obvious reason. I have ordered Dr. Phinney's book, and am looking forward to reading it and getting more info on NK. However my main question is- don't you guys miss eating? I mean, it sounds like you guys don't eat much. I happen to have a history of binge eating- so I do love food. In fact, that's probably why I have such a hard time w/raw veggies...eating too many. I am having a hard time w/the idea of eating close to no veggies. I have tried eliminating most of my fruits, and was successful, so I'm not so concerned about that. However, I can't imagine feeling mentally satisfied from such a small meal- moderate protein, fat and a small bit of veggies. How do you guys cope mentally w/that? Or do you guys not struggle with that at all?

Any compulsive bingers on here?

Thanks for any feedback!

sasonnier!

Eating a lower volume of food does take some getting used to, but like others have pointed out eating a lot of fat really suppresses your appetite. Have you tried regular Atkins or just Paleo?

I usually eat a very large salad once a day that helps with my desire for volume without a lot of carbs. It sounds like raw veggies are out for you though.

I was a binge eater but haven't really binged in many years. Even after I started Atkins I used to binge on LC foods. I'm not even sure why it stopped except that LC eating seems to keep it somewhat at bay. My desire to binge just dissipated over time.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Any compulsive bingers on here?

Thanks for any feedback!

I occasionally lose control...I find I need to take frequent maintenance breaks in order to prevent the hunger that leads to it.

Also, I was definitely overeating protein before, and was very, very hungry my first 2 or 3 days on NK. Some people have found it easier to start lowering their protein in small increments. Fat did NOT fill me up at first (which tends to indicate that your insulin was too high before, whether from carbs and/or protein).

[dianajlane]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

....my main question is- don't you guys miss eating? I mean, it sounds like you guys don't eat much. I happen to have a history of binge eating- so I do love food.

In my opinion, ketosis is great for appetite suppression. I do not feel hungry on this diet even though I am eating only 1600-1700 calories worth of food each day.

I have coffee with cream for breakfast which generally holds me until after noon. When I start feeling hungry, I have a couple of BLT wraps (or something similar) for lunch. If I get hungry later in the afternoon, I have some macadamia nuts. At around 4, I usually have a hard-boiled egg.

I eat dinner between 7 and 9, and I usually have a small salad and 3-5 oz of meat. I also save room for a small quantity of a high-fat dessert (lately, I've been melting a tablespoon of coconut oil, a tablespoon of salt-free butter, and a thumbnail-sized portion of unsweetened dark chocolate together in the microwave, sweetening it with my EZ-Sweetz liquid sweetener, and putting it in the freezer to harden; then eating it with SH whipped cream on top - YUM).

The key to keeping myself in ketosis and reaping its appetite-suppressing benefits is to keep carbs very low, and protein moderate, while ensuring the rest of my allotted calories come from fat.

Good Luck

[sasonnier]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I have been eating mostly a LC version of paleo- mostly above ground veggies and very limited fruits. I am able to overeat protein very easily, veggies too- even if I'm not hungry. It comes and goes. It was really bad when I was eating the CW way. Ever since picking up paleo and putting the grains and really starchy veggies down, the bingeing has been drastically cut back. But, it doesn't mean that I don't know how to EAT
;-)

I did do Rosedale for a few months- eating even less protein than is suggested by Phinney- I was eating about 45g of protein daily. Although I was eating more veggies and comfortable amts of fats- I managed to gain 5lbs on that. That was frustrating!

I can't wait to get the book!

How accurate is the urine ketosis strips? I'm not keen on poking myself regularly to chk my ketones.

[theLossgirl]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

How accurate is the urine ketosis strips? I'm not keen on poking myself regularly to chk my ketones.

In my experience, accurate. I am almost always in ketosis, and when I bother to test, the strips always test positive for ketones. My husband tries to do low carb but still loves his junk too much. So he goes in and out of ketosis and the urine strips reflect that accurately.

[JMCM1]

Urine ketone strips are generally regarded as unreliable and inaccurate.
Sorry.

[dianajlane]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

How accurate is the urine ketosis strips? I'm not keen on poking myself regularly to chk my ketones.

The ketone strips are pricey, but they work on a miniscule amount of blood.
I use a Freestyle Lancet Device and I set it to the lowest setting.
You can also get extra-fine lancets (33 ga) to use with it.
I hate needles, and I find I can barely feel it.
The cost of the ketone strips for the meter is a much bigger
deterrent than the fingerstick.
And it is really nice to know whether or not you are actually in ketosis.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Thanks for the feedback guys! I have been eating mostly a LC version of paleo- mostly above ground veggies and very limited fruits. I am able to overeat protein very easily, veggies too- even if I'm not hungry. It comes and goes. It was really bad when I was eating the CW way. Ever since picking up paleo and putting the grains and really starchy veggies down, the bingeing has been drastically cut back. But, it doesn't mean that I don't know how to EAT
;-)

I did do Rosedale for a few months- eating even less protein than is suggested by Phinney- I was eating about 45g of protein daily. Although I was eating more veggies and comfortable amts of fats- I managed to gain 5lbs on that. That was frustrating!

I can't wait to get the book!

How accurate is the urine ketosis strips? I'm not keen on poking myself regularly to chk my ketones.

I'm wondering if you have a clue as to why Rosedale didn't work for you? NK is very similar to Rosedale. Have you had your hormones and thyroid checked?

As for blood vs. urine ketone readings, I don't find the poking a problem and I like the greater accuracy.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by dianajlane

The ketone strips are pricey, but they work on a miniscule amount of blood.
I use a Freestyle Lancet Device and I set it to the lowest setting.
You can also get extra-fine lancets (33 ga) to use with it.
I hate needles, and I find I can barely feel it.
The cost of the ketone strips for the meter is a much bigger
deterrent than the fingerstick.
And it is really nice to know whether or not you are actually in ketosis.

How often do you test? I was only going to test if I wasn't losing weight. Or if I was gaining.

[SouthernGirl61]

Hello to all! WELCOME newbies!

Maureen - adding fat, I eat mac nuts, cream cheese mixed with dark chocolate powder & splenda, new fav is coconut butter, slightly warmed to make it creamy, add pecan butter (homemade) with toffee stevia drops. Butter melted with coconut butter is awesome! I have to keep stuff with me at work, and all of these are doing the trick and control hunger for hours at times, actually I don't really want supper anymore, but eat a bit anyway for the hypoglycemia factor. Middle of the night shakes, sweats, and dropping on the floor aren't fun!

Kristn, give your body time to adjust to the routine. I used to travel a lot on business and my worse trip was to the west and back east and high altitudes! Geeze, I didn't know if I was coming or going. And my tummy was always messed up, potty issues, gain water weight, then day three back home, I finally felt like I was getting normal again.

Diana, your scale is a gremlin! and who on earth decided this feature was a "good" thing???? The average woman could go nuts with that thing. This sounds like a good bit for "mental anguish"!

PJ, I have never heard of the diet you described, and drinking olive oil, well....I just don't know. I can't do the CO straight either though. Interesting concept.

Sasonnier - miss eating??? wow, not really anymore. Funny thing happened along the way to NK, I don't think much about food anymore, before it was all day long. High protein eater, and devoted to dark chocolate. I eat when I am hungry, which is rare these days come to think about it. took about three weeks for me, we are all very different here. I love fruit, I eat seasonal, locally grown, and blueberries are gone now. Avocados are daily for me, a whole one usually. Veggies, well, I eat seasonal as we have abundance in Texas! But I no longer crave them, now that I think about it. I take many vitamins, supplements, so no worries about missing the health benefits; but most veggies are not very good sources anymore; the soil is not as it was 50 years ago.

Deborah hit is right (LossGirl), no insulin spikes, no cravings!

[sasonnier]

Mom2zeke: I'm not sure why Rosedale didn't work- I didn't measure the amt of fat I ate, but it was generally 1- 1 1/2 avocado's a day and about 2-3 T of olive oil, 1-2 oz of nuts, no fruit, only his recommended veggies (so no tomatoes, root veggies, etc), and his recommended amts of protein (~45g). It could be that it was too much fat. I also didn't track the carbs, which was probably closer to 50-75g a day- so it could have been that too.

I might look into the urine strips first... then maybe consider the blood tests.

[dianajlane]

Originally Posted by sunday

How often do you test? I was only going to test if I wasn't losing weight. Or if I was gaining.

I tested when I first started the diet, to make sure that I was getting into ketosis. Once ketosis was estabished, I did as you suggested, and only tested when I was stalled or gaining, to make sure I was still in ketosis.

[One maur time]

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61

Hello to all! WELCOME newbies!

Maureen - adding fat, I eat mac nuts, cream cheese mixed with dark chocolate powder & splenda, new fav is coconut butter, slightly warmed to make it creamy, add pecan butter (homemade) with toffee stevia drops. Butter melted with coconut butter is awesome! I have to keep stuff with me at work, and all of these are doing the trick and control hunger for hours at times, actually I don't really want supper anymore, but eat a bit anyway for the hypoglycemia factor. Middle of the night shakes, sweats, and dropping on the floor aren't fun!

Kristn, give your body time to adjust to the routine. I used to travel a lot on business and my worse trip was to the west and back east and high altitudes! Geeze, I didn't know if I was coming or going. And my tummy was always messed up, potty issues, gain water weight, then day three back home, I finally felt like I was getting normal again.

Diana, your scale is a gremlin! and who on earth decided this feature was a "good" thing???? The average woman could go nuts with that thing. This sounds like a good bit for "mental anguish"!

PJ, I have never heard of the diet you described, and drinking olive oil, well....I just don't know. I can't do the CO straight either though. Interesting concept.

Sasonnier - miss eating??? wow, not really anymore. Funny thing happened along the way to NK, I don't think much about food anymore, before it was all day long. High protein eater, and devoted to dark chocolate. I eat when I am hungry, which is rare these days come to think about it. took about three weeks for me, we are all very different here. I love fruit, I eat seasonal, locally grown, and blueberries are gone now. Avocados are daily for me, a whole one usually. Veggies, well, I eat seasonal as we have abundance in Texas! But I no longer crave them, now that I think about it. I take many vitamins, supplements, so no worries about missing the health benefits; but most veggies are not very good sources anymore; the soil is not as it was 50 years ago.

Deborah hit is right (LossGirl), no insulin spikes, no cravings!

Southern Girl
Thanks for the suggestions!
I know I need to get the protein in check to see real results.
Maureen

[piratejenny]

Originally Posted by sunday

Hey Jen...
How is everything going on the MM?

Pretty well, I guess! PM me if you have time.

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!

My weight held steady this morning and my ketones are still .4. I'm trying not to get discouraged with the ketone readings and may test this afternoon to see if they're going up during the day.

Tomorrow I start back with kettlebell class after 2 weeks absence and I'm a bit nervous. I expect I'll be pretty sore next week. Hopefully it will have a positive effect on my ketosis!

How is everyone else doing this morning?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by dianajlane

I tested when I first started the diet, to make sure that I was getting into ketosis. Once ketosis was estabished, I did as you suggested, and only tested when I was stalled or gaining, to make sure I was still in ketosis.

This is what I did also. I would also test if I ate something totally different than usual to see how it affected me. I started testing regularly again once I hit maintenance.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61

Kristn, give your body time to adjust to the routine. I used to travel a lot on business and my worse trip was to the west and back east and high altitudes! Geeze, I didn't know if I was coming or going. And my tummy was always messed up, potty issues, gain water weight, then day three back home, I finally felt like I was getting normal again.

Thanks for this advice. I know my routine is off (I'm getting hungry and tired at strange times of the day, and normally I'm up before my alarm, but I can barely crawl out of bed these last few days). I'm going to give it a week before I totally panic.

Originally Posted by sasonnier

Mom2zeke: I'm not sure why Rosedale didn't work- I didn't measure the amt of fat I ate, but it was generally 1- 1 1/2 avocado's a day and about 2-3 T of olive oil, 1-2 oz of nuts, no fruit, only his recommended veggies (so no tomatoes, root veggies, etc), and his recommended amts of protein (~45g). It could be that it was too much fat. I also didn't track the carbs, which was probably closer to 50-75g a day- so it could have been that too.

Ah, the higher carbs may have been the issue. I hope that NK is more successful for you!

I might look into the urine strips first... then maybe consider the blood tests.

Might as well give it a try.

[Dottie]

Going to try to get back on NK/high fat/calorie cycling tomorrow or Sunday.
I was doing great, ketones measuring in the .7-1.5 range, losing a little weight and then I got sick last week and it's just been since yesterday that I can keep anything down (naturally it's toast ). So as soon as my tummy can handle some fat, I'll be back on it.
So I didn't bail out or get abducted by aliens

[JMCM1]

Welcome back Dottie.
Sorry you were so ill and I bet Darin would have really preferred you got abducted by aliens. Who doesn't love a good story?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Dottie

Going to try to get back on NK/high fat/calorie cycling tomorrow or Sunday.
I was doing great, ketones measuring in the .7-1.5 range, losing a little weight and then I got sick last week and it's just been since yesterday that I can keep anything down (naturally it's toast ). So as soon as my tummy can handle some fat, I'll be back on it.
So I didn't bail out or get abducted by aliens

Glad you're back Dottie! I hope that you're feeling better soon.