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Old 09-27-2012, 12:09 PM   #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantograph View Post
There have been quite a few comments about fluctuations in water weight lately. This made me wonder if anyone has any good experiences with those scales that measure body fat percentage. I've seen people say they aren't too accurate, but if they were at least consistent, it should be possible to see if body fat is declining over time.
I have a super fancy Omron scale and it's not accurate for BF at all. It consistently gives me 30-31% and when I did the dunk BF measurement I was 26.3%. I don't use that part of it anymore but tried the other day when I hit a new low. Still 31% BF on the scale.

Quote:
PS - My waist was down to 37.25" this AM. Sure a lot better than the 43" girth I had before switching from vegan LF to Paleo/LCHF two and a half years ago. I'm trying to get into the "Excellent" range for men (under 37") per the chart in "How to Lose Weight, Part 4 of 17" on the Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt's DietDoctor site.
Congrats on the loss of inches!!
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:26 PM   #722
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Hi yall.

Been reading this thread as well as several other sites. Couple years back I started following Kurt Harris' "PANU" recommendations, pretty simple really: no gluten; no PUFA vegetable oils or transfats, use sat fats (coconut, butter, bacon, etc); eliminate sugar and fructose; eat real food. these are the first principles. Lost weight pretty effortlessly. Got in ketosis according to ketostix, didn't measure any food, lost 2 pant sizes. Fell off the wagon into a pile of baked goods.

Now am following this thread with interest. Restarted, food tracking obsessively, lost 8 lbs and my size 16s are loose and size 14s snug but wearable.

I am a little spooked about being in ketosis long term. I have read on Hyperlipid re pros& cons and possible health problems Hyperlipid: A brief discussion of ketosis (kidney stones, dehydration, electrolyte imbalances, thyroid, heart palpitations, micronutrient deficiencies). Not to discourage anyone, but have you anything to report? I know ketosis is good for fat loss and can be great for mental health.

Here is Peter's take on why fasting blood glucose is high in some who follow low carb and whether this is meaningful: Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance

I know some here mention having broth, is this to counteract the electrolyte thing? All the broth I have looked at in passing seems to have msg/natural flavors/hydrolyzed ick. What supplements do you find to be necessary on this regimen. I seem to find it impossible to obtain enough iron.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:40 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by Ratherbedigging View Post
What supplements do you find to be necessary on this regimen. I seem to find it impossible to obtain enough iron.
Hiya

Google 'LLVLC-ep-602-morley-robbins' and it should be the first hit. This podcast is about magnesium.

Google 'atlcx-26-dr-jonny-bowden' and it should be the first hit. This podcast is about supplements in general.

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Old 09-27-2012, 12:48 PM   #724
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Originally Posted by pantograph View Post
PS - My waist was down to 37.25" this AM. Sure a lot better than the 43" girth I had before switching from vegan LF to Paleo/LCHF two and a half years ago. I'm trying to get into the "Excellent" range for men (under 37") per the chart in "How to Lose Weight, Part 4 of 17" on the Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt's DietDoctor site.
Thanks for the search phrase Terry! I've wondered if I was measuring myself right and I have.

I've lost about 3.5" around my middle since going NK on the 10th.

Really, I was very skeptical about Dr. Eades' book on getting rid of belly fat but it is very possible apparently.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:33 PM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Hiya

Google 'LLVLC-ep-602-morley-robbins' and it should be the first hit. This podcast is about magnesium.

Google 'atlcx-26-dr-jonny-bowden' and it should be the first hit. This podcast is about supplements in general.

Thanks. will listen when I get a chance. The supplements topic seems overwhelming.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:09 PM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantograph View Post
There have been quite a few comments about fluctuations in water weight lately. This made me wonder if anyone has any good experiences with those scales that measure body fat percentage. I've seen people say they aren't too accurate, but if they were at least consistent, it should be possible to see if body fat is declining over time.

Keep clam, Terry

PS - My waist was down to 37.25" this AM. Sure a lot better than the 43" girth I had before switching from vegan LF to Paleo/LCHF two and a half years ago. I'm trying to get into the "Excellent" range for men (under 37") per the chart in "How to Lose Weight, Part 4 of 17" on the Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt's DietDoctor site.
I have a Tanita that I've used for many years. I don't know how accurate it is but I do notice that the number will decline slowly over time if I really am losing weight. But it can change by 1% if I step off and then step right back on again. So if you get one I'd suggest logging it week by week and then looking for the trend.

Congrats on the huge waist drop. Nearly a half foot off your waist - that is no small feat!

Mike
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratherbedigging View Post
Hi yall.

Been reading this thread as well as several other sites. Couple years back I started following Kurt Harris' "PANU" recommendations, pretty simple really: no gluten; no PUFA vegetable oils or transfats, use sat fats (coconut, butter, bacon, etc); eliminate sugar and fructose; eat real food. these are the first principles. Lost weight pretty effortlessly. Got in ketosis according to ketostix, didn't measure any food, lost 2 pant sizes. Fell off the wagon into a pile of baked goods.

Now am following this thread with interest. Restarted, food tracking obsessively, lost 8 lbs and my size 16s are loose and size 14s snug but wearable.

I am a little spooked about being in ketosis long term. I have read on Hyperlipid re pros& cons and possible health problems Hyperlipid: A brief discussion of ketosis (kidney stones, dehydration, electrolyte imbalances, thyroid, heart palpitations, micronutrient deficiencies). Not to discourage anyone, but have you anything to report? I know ketosis is good for fat loss and can be great for mental health.

Here is Peter's take on why fasting blood glucose is high in some who follow low carb and whether this is meaningful: Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance

I know some here mention having broth, is this to counteract the electrolyte thing? All the broth I have looked at in passing seems to have msg/natural flavors/hydrolyzed ick. What supplements do you find to be necessary on this regimen. I seem to find it impossible to obtain enough iron.
To the best of my understanding, the recommendation for eating broth is motivated by encouraging people to get enough salt, which can be a problem during an initial "induction flu" week or two, when the body drops a lot of water held in the muscles before doing low carb. I have very occasionally experienced feelings of exhaustion that I could trace back to eating too little sodium and could cure by eating some well-salted food.

The main recommendation about avoiding kidney stones, on websites that I've visited, is to drink lots of water, which is generally recommended for all people following a lowcarb diet, with or without nutritional ketosis. It might be something that people doing nutritional ketosis have to be particularly careful about. Of course, being overweight is also a risk factor for kidney stones, and following the nutritional ketosis approach appears to be the only way that some of us here can break a weightloss stall or lose at a non-glacial pace.

You might find Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek's book useful, on The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living. Phinney eats a ketogenic diet himself, and he says that thyroid functioning may go down temporarily if calories dip too low (e.g., under 1200/day), but has otherwise seen no evidence of a low carb diet or ketosis affecting thyroid levels. Check out the interview with Phinney recently, on breaking lowcarb diet stalls, with Jimmy Moore on "Ask the Lowcarb Experts."

If you feel that there are health risks with adopting a ketogenic approach, then you can instead simply follow a limited carbohydrate diet, without being in full ketosis--or do a primal/paleo "real foods" approach with limited carbohydrates. I am following the nutritional ketosis approach because simply limiting carbs and calories no longer works for me, even eating super clean according to the principles you specified, and that's true for many other people on this thread. One has to weigh various health risks, and I am assuming that being obese and borderline diabetic is a more serious risk for me than an increased chance of kidney stones, for example.

Many of us maintain our weight eating lowcarb without being in ketosis but cannot lose without reducing both protein and carbs enough to be in ketosis. If I reached my goal weight and were able to maintain my weight while just doing lowcarb but not being in nutritional ketosis, I'd probably follow that path. It's easier to cook and eat socially with a lowcarb diet than with a low carb diet that is limited enough in protein to maintain full ketosis.

You mention that you are in ketosis according to the urine-tested ketostix. The people here are either using blood testing meters with expensive testing strips specifically for ketosis OR are modifying their macronutrient intake so that they eat a small number of carbs, an adequate but modest amount of protein, and the rest fat. That generally works out to be 65-80 percent of calories from fat.

There's no general consensus on supplements, among people following this approach. In general, people make recommendations for supplements based on specific problems that a poster specifies--such as potassium to help with leg cramps, or magnesium to help with sleep.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:48 PM   #728
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sven--you always have the most informative posts!!
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:38 PM   #729
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Here my # what y'all think?
Cal-1205
Fat-107--76%
Carbs-9.6--3%
Prot--60.2--21%

Have not lost lately so decided to lower fat alittle
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:35 PM   #730
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Sven, great info and true. I have done LC for a very long time, so I will opinion my body got smarter than me and refused to lose the last lbs to goal weight. Thus after a very long stall, I found this website and started reading and even though I long ago read Adkins and others, I decided it was worth a try. Even if I bounce up and down and haven't hit goal yet, I have found "full" again, and am not hungry every minute of the day! That alone is relief.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:38 PM   #731
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Does anyone take B6 with the magnesium? My natural path doc said it should be taken with magnesium to help it work better. I have so many vitamins now, wondering if it matters.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:48 PM   #732
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totals for today:

Cals 1360
C: 39
F: 117
P: 42 (a little low)
Weight 149.8

I ate my dinner and realized my lunch today had almost no protein....just wasn't hungry enough to add anything else and if there is one thing I am trying to be mindful of is satiety and stopping eating when I get there. Weight down 1.2# from yesterday, but I'm coming down from some water gain. Hopefully tomorrow will be a new low.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:24 PM   #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portcop01 View Post
Here my # what y'all think?
Cal-1205
Fat-107--76%
Carbs-9.6--3%
Prot--60.2--21%

Have not lost lately so decided to lower fat alittle
Looks good to me. I wouldn't drop calories lower than 1200/day, though, on a regular basis. Your carbs and protein seem very reasonable, and I would think that you would be in ketosis with those numbers.

It's possible that you will not lose--or not lose much--for a while, and then lose quite a bit in a whoosh. Some people lose in fits and starts, and that might be true for you--particularly when doing the nutritional ketosis approach. There's a great post that pops up periodically on how and why the scale numbers can hide progress we are actually making in terms of losing fat; I wish I could remember the name of the original post so that I could link to it.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:16 PM   #734
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:46 PM   #735
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Thanks Sven

Thanks for your response. I am actually following the eating pattern of this thread right now to see where it takes me, now trying to reduce protein a bit. But always the devil's advocate in my head!

Really feeling fine after nearly a month, no problems, no "low carb flu" just a bit of minor digestive stuff at first. Probably need to get additional minerals, since I look deficient in several according to my tracker. But vit C is good -- daily home-grown tomatoes with blue cheese! And have been staying about 1400 cals a day and typically little hunger unless TOM when I am ravenous!

Some of you have great results, some slower but persistent. Nice to join the party!
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:58 AM   #736
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Well no weight lost today...I just did my # for 28 days lost 1.75 lbs a week not bad..so now I'm starting a new 28 days!
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:56 AM   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratherbedigging
Hi yall.

Been reading this thread as well as several other sites. Couple years back I started following Kurt Harris' "PANU" recommendations, pretty simple really: no gluten; no PUFA vegetable oils or transfats, use sat fats (coconut, butter, bacon, etc); eliminate sugar and fructose; eat real food. these are the first principles. Lost weight pretty effortlessly. Got in ketosis according to ketostix, didn't measure any food, lost 2 pant sizes. Fell off the wagon into a pile of baked goods.

Now am following this thread with interest. Restarted, food tracking obsessively, lost 8 lbs and my size 16s are loose and size 14s snug but wearable.

I am a little spooked about being in ketosis long term. I have read on Hyperlipid re pros& cons and possible health problems Hyperlipid: A brief discussion of ketosis (kidney stones, dehydration, electrolyte imbalances, thyroid, heart palpitations, micronutrient deficiencies). Not to discourage anyone, but have you anything to report? I know ketosis is good for fat loss and can be great for mental health.

Here is Peter's take on why fasting blood glucose is high in some who follow low carb and whether this is meaningful: Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance

I know some here mention having broth, is this to counteract the electrolyte thing? All the broth I have looked at in passing seems to have msg/natural flavors/hydrolyzed ick. What supplements do you find to be necessary on this regimen. I seem to find it impossible to obtain enough iron.
Thanks for pointing to Peter's blog on the subject. I found it quite interesting and it again reminds me that the science is still so needed in this area. As usual it is quite informative to read the comments section.

I do think that long term ketosis is likely the most beneficial for most people due to the protective traits that it offers to one's physiology. The most significant ones being, resistance to cancer, inflammation and neurological disorders (just to name a few).

As for kidney stones, I do think it is unclear if these are really the result of a number of different issues but most significant is 'vegetable oils'.

One of the most satisfying things to do is to buy a great quality (i.e. free range, organic) chicken, cook it, eat it and then use the bones to make broth. No msg, or any other questionable ingredient and you control any good additions you may choose. It wasn't all that long ago that in the human food supply - that was the only way to do it. No boxes on the shelve to pluck just feathers.....

I do think it is an evolution and if you research and question enough, you will come to the conclusions that make the most sense to yourself. In the meantime, I support the suggestion that you read Phinney and Volek's book "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living".
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:12 AM   #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratherbedigging View Post
I am a little spooked about being in ketosis long term. I have read on Hyperlipid re pros& cons and possible health problems Hyperlipid: A brief discussion of ketosis (kidney stones, dehydration, electrolyte imbalances, thyroid, heart palpitations, micronutrient deficiencies). Not to discourage anyone, but have you anything to report? I know ketosis is good for fat loss and can be great for mental health.
In December it will be 6 years since I started low carbing. No long term problems for me!

Although I do take magnesium pretty regularly. Not a surprise since our food supply is pretty inadequate nowadays. Nuts and seeds are helpful too.

I can't think of any longterm problems avoiding sugar flour and empty white grains! Certainly not optimal sources of nutrition. And europeans didn't even have access to potatoes till after the new world was discovered. Not something we were designed to require (and potato chips were what got me so heavy).
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:14 AM   #739
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Good morning everyone!

Yesterday my maintenance intake was:
Protein: 84.5 (19%)
Fat: 150.9 (77%)
Carbs (total): 18.9 (4%)
Calories: 1754
This morning:
Weight: 151 (up 2)
Ketones: 1
BG: 96

So I have seen a gain on the scale for the last 3 days. I really hope that's because I'm gaining muscle. Both DH and I are still sore from Wednesday's workout so I think that water retention must be part of it. I have been staying right around 1800 calories/day and think I'm going to try to dial that back to around 1600 for the next week and see what happens. While I'm not really trying to lose, I did like seeing that lower number on the scale and with vacation in a week I think I'm going to try and stay low if possible. Gotta rock that bathing suit.

My CVS ketone strips arrived yesterday so I'll probably continue testing for the next week.

How is everyone else doing?
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:21 AM   #740
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Quote:
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How is everyone else doing?
My week of maintenance has gone well this time! I have kept between 1400 and 1800 calories just eating to full hunger. Weight has fluctuated but not much.

I'll begin lowering calories again on Monday. And will be sure to interrupt with maintenance again if I start getting the hungries. Hope I can go more than two weeks, but I'll play it by ear.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:24 AM   #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulabob View Post
In December it will be 6 years since I started low carbing. No long term problems for me!

Although I do take magnesium pretty regularly. Not a surprise since our food supply is pretty inadequate nowadays. Nuts and seeds are helpful too.

I can't think of any longterm problems avoiding sugar flour and empty white grains! Certainly not optimal sources of nutrition. And europeans didn't even have access to potatoes till after the new world was discovered. Not something we were designed to require (and potato chips were what got me so heavy).


Ratherbedigging--I've been LC 11 years now without any problems. I am hypothyroid, but I believe that's been going on since at least my 20s and runs pretty strongly in my family. And I'm with Paula--I take minerals regularly.

I think you need to find what works for you and then really stick with it and adjust if necessary. I know that I'm in better shape than most of my peers and I've been able to live in a long-term weight-reduced state despite the incredible odds against it. I do try to read all the latest research and digest it as much as my science-disabled brain allows.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:26 AM   #742
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Good morning, Fat Burners!

I have been too busy to post for a couple of weeks, but someone came over to my blog the other day and said she missed me here (awww!), so I thought I'd drop in.

I see there is a new thread! I do not have the time to go back and read the million pages I missed on the old thread or the half million pages on this new thread, at least not today! So I am just jumping in here.

I did have a set back, which you can read about here.

The tiny version is this: my blood ketones are down, I am always hungry, and my blood glucose is up, in most part from regularly drinking something that I did not know was sweetened, and drinking a lot of it! The details can be found in the link I posted in the paragraph above.

So I am back to tracking food and blood again. Oh, well.

I am glad to see all the people getting on the NK bandwagon here!
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:33 AM   #743
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Morning!
Won't be able to weigh the next 3 mornings so was hoping for a low weight this am, alas, it was 200, up! Went right to my wedding rings and put them on, tight. So, that is always my ruler for knowing if I am retaining fluids or not. I must be, not sure why but that reassured me. Ketones were 1.8 which was very good. My Dr. gave me a new blood glucose meter the other day b/c I told her I suspected my old one was reading low. Yep, it must be, this moring I ws 90 as opposed to usually being in the 80 range since starting KT diet.

All is good though, I know the weight is just a fluctation or hope it is and I continue to feel great, sleep so much better, have more energy and I am just in a good place with my diabetes.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:36 AM   #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham View Post
Good morning, Fat Burners!

I have been too busy to post for a couple of weeks, but someone came over to my blog the other day and said she missed me here (awww!), so I thought I'd drop in.

I see there is a new thread! I do not have the time to go back and read the million pages I missed on the old thread or the half million pages on this new thread, at least not today! So I am just jumping in here.

I did have a set back, which you can read about here.

The tiny version is this: my blood ketones are down, I am always hungry, and my blood glucose is up, in most part from regularly drinking something that I did not know was sweetened, and drinking a lot of it! The details can be found in the link I posted in the paragraph above.

So I am back to tracking food and blood again. Oh, well.

I am glad to see all the people getting on the NK bandwagon here!
WE do miss you here, hope you drop by more often to hang out with us. We also miss your wisdom and experience.

Yep, tonic water has carbs, but, if you are hooked on it, you can buy diet tonic water. I used to get that for gin and tonics and loved it.

Sorry to hear about your slip up but so glad you caught what it was, and then shared it with everyone, we can all learn from each other.

good to "see" you
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:19 AM   #745
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Good morning everyone!

here's my info from yesterday:
1867 calories
fat 154
pro 52
carb 21


I hit a wall last night and just didn't want to eat. I usually want a snack after dinner, and had no desire for it at all. My blood sugars were on the low side as well. I have had to adjust my insulin needs by almost 1/3 of what they were prior to eating this way- and I was low carbing before, just not NK. Dramatic!!! I am happy needing less insulin, but the road to find out my needs is a tough one. But, thank goodness for meters and I can test frequently to check in. Interesting- I had to eat a couple glucose tabs last night because I was having an insulin reaction- mild- but needed to get #s up. I was afraid I'd be kicked out of ketosis this morning, but I am still 1.2 today. yay!

have a great day everyone! I'll weigh in later, - I'm waiting to do it after my walk.
do you guys have a time of day you like to weigh yourselves?
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:44 AM   #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairie View Post
do you guys have a time of day you like to weigh yourselves?
Always first thing in the morning, after potty time, naked. I also usually weigh myself before bed. I gain about 2 pounds over the course of a day, so if I've gained less, I know I can usually look forward to a loss the next day.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:46 AM   #747
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I do that too Deborah, usually a good indication of what morning weight will be!!!
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:51 AM   #748
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I would think weighing in the morning after using the bathroom is best. Keep in mind that 2 cups of water weighs 1 pound - a gallon is 8 lbs.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:53 AM   #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham View Post
Good morning, Fat Burners!

I have been too busy to post for a couple of weeks, but someone came over to my blog the other day and said she missed me here (awww!), so I thought I'd drop in.

I see there is a new thread! I do not have the time to go back and read the million pages I missed on the old thread or the half million pages on this new thread, at least not today! So I am just jumping in here.

I did have a set back, which you can read about here.

The tiny version is this: my blood ketones are down, I am always hungry, and my blood glucose is up, in most part from regularly drinking something that I did not know was sweetened, and drinking a lot of it! The details can be found in the link I posted in the paragraph above.

So I am back to tracking food and blood again. Oh, well.

I am glad to see all the people getting on the NK bandwagon here!
Great to see you here Rebecca!! We have missed you.

I think a lot of people don't realize that tonic is sweetened. When I say that I don't do sugar people often offer me tonic. Good thing you figured it out before it got out of hand. Good luck getting back on track!
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:07 AM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Great to see you here Rebecca!! We have missed you.

I think a lot of people don't realize that tonic is sweetened. When I say that I don't do sugar people often offer me tonic. Good thing you figured it out before it got out of hand. Good luck getting back on track!
Reminds me of the time a friend, very very blonde, could not believe that white wine had calories!! She insisted it was white, it couldn't have calories
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