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Old 09-23-2012, 09:17 AM   #511
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Anxious to see where this all goes, expect to see more about it all over the place and media.

A good friend asked me to show her how to do it recently. I said "well, you've done LC before, right?" NO, she has never even read about LC. OMG, where do I even start? I told her the first thing she needed to do was to get an atkins book, start out on induction and then I would help her from there. We will see where it goes, I don't think she is really ready to commit to this yet.
It sounds like she needs Atkins 101. I know what you mean about committing. When I first lost weight I had a bunch of friends and family members who started LC but really couldn't commit to it as a WOL. The weight will absolutely return if you don't figure out how to make it a permanent change.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:27 AM   #512
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So true, I have learned that from my past years of LCing. I cringe when I see someone start and say, well, I am going to do this but 2 1/2 weeks from now we are going out for my birthday and I am going to eat whatever I want that day, which often turns into that week and then they are so frustrated b/c it isn't "working". LC isn't very forgiving.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:30 AM   #513
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Quote:
A good friend asked me to show her how to do it recently. I said "well, you've done LC before, right?" NO, she has never even read about LC. OMG, where do I even start? I told her the first thing she needed to do was to get an atkins book, start out on induction and then I would help her from there. We will see where it goes, I don't think she is really ready to commit to this yet.
This is always my first advice I give to people when they start asking me about my weight loss. What I have mostly found is that people want you to tell them a quick fix. That's just not reasonable. I am not going to waste my time trying to explain things to them if they are not willing to put in a little time reading through one book.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:32 AM   #514
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Today is day 20 of my 2 week trial of this WOE . If you are doing the math, you will realize I have almost finished my third week and have no intention of stopping. Now, it is a month long trial I guess.

Feel so much better
Sleeping so much better
Skin is so much less dry
Have lots more energy
Have lost 10 lbs and hit a low I haven't seen for a LONG time. Got down to 199 in May of this year and 2 minutes later was back in the 200's. Have been in Onderland since Friday and do not plan on any traveling soon back to the 200's.

Cons - I have gone through some of what I guess is the induction flu, some pretty strong headaches, they seem to have passed now, and achy back and neck muscles, in the neck where I have had them before, the back kind of a new thing but that is also getting better quickly.

Not sure this is a con, but having to do a lot more cooking b/c you don't just grab easy peasy LC things that are good and satisfying and that means, a lot more cleaning up in the kitchen, but it is worth every second of it and I really do enjoy cooking.

Win/win
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:38 AM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
I too think that too many people get caught up in those percentage numbers and for some reason think that 80% fat is a magic number they have to strive for. As you have pointed out several times Kristn, it isn't percentages we are looking for so much as the grams of protein and carbs, then let fat fill us up.
I couldn't agree more. Keeping carb grams low and protein grams within range is most important. Then eat fat until you are satiated. Most of time, if your are overweight, you will lose weight doing this. If not, just back off the fat a bit, keeping carbs and protein the same. (In the end, calories do count, but probably not all that accurately, depending on your metabolic state.) The macronutrient percentages are interesting, but not what you should target.

Also, I wonder where the info to have ketones between 1.5 and 3 came from? I haven't seen this before. Volek & Phinney say the range for NK is between 0.5 and 3. IIRC, in Phinney's excellent video interview by Swedish LCHF Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, he said his own ketones were typically between 0.6 and 0.9. (I've been watching the DietDoctor's videos over the last two days - highly recommended, especially his AHS 2011 talk.)

I'm impressed with Mike's triglyceride and HDL numbers! Everything I read lately says that total cholesterol and LDL numbers are nearly meaningless.

Keep clam, Terry
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:58 AM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post

Not sure this is a con, but having to do a lot more cooking b/c you don't just grab easy peasy LC things that are good and satisfying and that means, a lot more cleaning up in the kitchen, but it is worth every second of it and I really do enjoy cooking.

Win/win
The longer I do this, the more I find short cuts to make things a little easier. Preparing snacks/meals as far in advance as is practical really helps. I'm much more comfortable preparing foods at home because I know exactly what's in them, and how much.

Do you find nowadays you get a little cagey when eating out? I never know what unexpected high carb ingredient they may be sneaking into my seemingly harmless dish! I need to get more comfortable with just asking.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:12 AM   #517
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Here's my update for the week (average daily values over 7 days).

Consumption
Carbs: 34.9 g (incl 11.4 g fiber) - 6%
Protein: 103 g - 19%
Fat: 191.2 g - 75%
Calories: 2,243 (burning 2,819)

Markers (with weekly change)
Weight: 176.5 (down 1.6)
BMI: 22.66
Fasting Ketones: 1.14 (up 0.4)
Fasting Glucose: 98.7 (up 4.7)

I'm not thrilled with my glucose rising, but it varies quite a bit from day to day. Poor sleep quality or too little sleep tends to raise it.

My ketones seem to be most affected by the amount of exercise the day before. The more sedentary I am, the lower they are.

Of course, I'm quite happy with my consistent weight loss. Based on 7 day moving averages, I'm down 5.4 pounds since August 30th.

Keep clam, Terry
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:44 AM   #518
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Today is day 20 of my 2 week trial of this WOE . If you are doing the math, you will realize I have almost finished my third week and have no intention of stopping. Now, it is a month long trial I guess.

Feel so much better
Sleeping so much better
Skin is so much less dry
Have lots more energy
Have lost 10 lbs and hit a low I haven't seen for a LONG time. Got down to 199 in May of this year and 2 minutes later was back in the 200's. Have been in Onderland since Friday and do not plan on any traveling soon back to the 200's.

Cons - I have gone through some of what I guess is the induction flu, some pretty strong headaches, they seem to have passed now, and achy back and neck muscles, in the neck where I have had them before, the back kind of a new thing but that is also getting better quickly.
Great job Buffy!

Quote:
Not sure this is a con, but having to do a lot more cooking b/c you don't just grab easy peasy LC things that are good and satisfying and that means, a lot more cleaning up in the kitchen, but it is worth every second of it and I really do enjoy cooking.

Win/win
Quote:
Originally Posted by theLossgirl
The longer I do this, the more I find short cuts to make things a little easier. Preparing snacks/meals as far in advance as is practical really helps. I'm much more comfortable preparing foods at home because I know exactly what's in them, and how much.
I find this true too. I have a rhythm and a way of doing things in the kitchen to make cooking easier and less time consuming. I also find that the longer I LC the less I am apt to make complicated recipes, we keep things really simple around here.

Quote:
Do you find nowadays you get a little cagey when eating out? I never know what unexpected high carb ingredient they may be sneaking into my seemingly harmless dish! I need to get more comfortable with just asking.
I am completely paranoid about eating out for this reason. I'm suspicious of everything--even otherwise harmless salad dressing can contain added sugar or other unwanted ingredients. I am pretty good at asking for things to be left off, substitutions, etc.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:50 AM   #519
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I made up a ranch dressing today, just b/c I don't like all the stuff in the commercial ones and like you gals, restaurants ones worry me. Plus, it is so easy to eat too much of it.

I am sure I will come up with shortcuts in the future, I have done LC a lot in the past, just remembering some of the things i liked that made it easier.

Going to make a double ranch of fat bombs today, instead of one, not that they take long anyhoo.
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:16 PM   #520
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Hi everyone. My ketone reading was .9 again this morning. Today I did not have my coffee with HWC and MCT oil.....I had tea...plain herbal tea. Going to cut back on my fat and see if that helps, keeping my protein the same. Thanks for the ideas everyone.

Another book for your friend that wants to try low carb would be the newer of Gary Taubes books...the one on "Why we get fat". He makes a good and easy reading argument on lowcarb eating.

Hope everyone has a great day...and welcome to the new people who are joining us!
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:26 PM   #521
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I think the body raises ketones when consuming coconut oil, MCT oil, and heavy duty exercise....that's what I recall reading in the book anyway. Someone will correct me if that's wrong. So, that could be why your urine ketones went into the "deep zone" of color! Such fun for you!!!!

Now rest!!!

My ketones are much higher when I'm exercising regularly.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:09 PM   #522
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I have been reading all of your threads for the past week or so and last Wed. decided to try upping my fats, etc.
Started wed. 203.8, thurs 202.8,fr 202.2, sat 201.8 and today got to 199.8. Thats 4 lbs. in 5 days. I was aiming for 199 by the end of sept. but will definitely take it early.
Havent got a machine but am in low ketosis with urine strips. As we live on an island in northern British Columbia a lot of things are hard to come by unless you order on the internet. Haven't gotten all the kinks out of the plan yet as for the past 2 years have been following lc on and off - got down to 183 but have slowly gained again. As i really love the fats hoping this will keep me on track.
thanks for all your help
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:33 PM   #523
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Island Girl, feel free to join in, we welcome everyone who is doing this or those that want to learn about it, or have anything to offer.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:06 PM   #524
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Wow. This tread has taught me a lot. Thanks for all your work and information. I have been reading, lurking for couple weeks to catch up from July to present day. I think I get it now, am working on the ratios and finding what agrees with me and what does not. I have extreme food allergies, so this is going to be perfect. I have a few more to lose, was on LC for over ten years, been stalled for a long, long time since I hit 50 - 17 months to be exact! Now, in short time, 2lbs gone.

Kristn, what is kettlebells? This sounds like fun. Can you do it at home?
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantograph View Post
I couldn't agree more. Keeping carb grams low and protein grams within range is most important. Then eat fat until you are satiated. Most of time, if your are overweight, you will lose weight doing this. If not, just back off the fat a bit, keeping carbs and protein the same. (In the end, calories do count, but probably not all that accurately, depending on your metabolic state.) The macronutrient percentages are interesting, but not what you should target.

Also, I wonder where the info to have ketones between 1.5 and 3 came from? I haven't seen this before. Volek & Phinney say the range for NK is between 0.5 and 3. IIRC, in Phinney's excellent video interview by Swedish LCHF Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, he said his own ketones were typically between 0.6 and 0.9. (I've been watching the DietDoctor's videos over the last two days - highly recommended, especially his AHS 2011 talk.)

I'm impressed with Mike's triglyceride and HDL numbers! Everything I read lately says that total cholesterol and LDL numbers are nearly meaningless.

Keep clam, Terry
There's a graph in the Phinney and Volek "Art and Science of Lowcarb Performance" book that suggests that having blood ketones in the range of 1.5 to 3.0 is optimal, but the book also says that one is "in ketosis" with results at 0.5 or higher, and that there's no advantage to going above 3.0. Since the information is in the form of a graph, it's hard to be precise, but it looks like 1.5-3.0 is optimal, from what I can see.

If people are doing fine with losing when their blood ketone levels are at 0.5 or in that range, I wouldn't worry about going higher. And I seem to be getting good results just by watching my macros (for me, under 30 grams carbs, 45-55 grams protein, and the rest fat, staying around 1200 calories/day) without doing blood testing.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:15 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theLossgirl View Post
The longer I do this, the more I find short cuts to make things a little easier. Preparing snacks/meals as far in advance as is practical really helps. I'm much more comfortable preparing foods at home because I know exactly what's in them, and how much.

Do you find nowadays you get a little cagey when eating out? I never know what unexpected high carb ingredient they may be sneaking into my seemingly harmless dish! I need to get more comfortable with just asking.
I used to find it pretty easy to eat lowcarb in restaurants by ordering entrees that were fairly plain presentations of protein plus veggies on the side (steak, roast chicken, fish without sauce). Now that I'm limiting my protein, I have to eat pretty much all my protein for the day in my restaurant meal, if I eat out socially, and I eat veggies plus fat for the other meals. My NK portions of food--especially of protein--are way smaller than most restaurants serve. I prefer to make everything from scratch and bring measured portons of my food from home to eat at work.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:59 PM   #527
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I am pretty sure I've already posted this somewhere on the boards, but I'm loving it so much that I wanted to post here.

I made a list of all of the foods that I eat on a weekly basis. I looked up the protein content and net carbs for all of these foods and compiled them all together on a cheat sheet.
Now when I'm ready to make my menu out for the next day I just have my handy dandy paper with me and can easily figure out my numbers for the day. I don't know what I would do without it. When I was just doing net carbs it wasn't a big deal, but the grams of protein was driving me crazy but not anymore.
Just wanted to share just in case anyone else was having the same trouble. All of those online trackers drive me crazy. I like to do things the old fashioned way
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:41 PM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61 View Post
Wow. This tread has taught me a lot. Thanks for all your work and information. I have been reading, lurking for couple weeks to catch up from July to present day. I think I get it now, am working on the ratios and finding what agrees with me and what does not. I have extreme food allergies, so this is going to be perfect. I have a few more to lose, was on LC for over ten years, been stalled for a long, long time since I hit 50 - 17 months to be exact! Now, in short time, 2lbs gone.

Kristn, what is kettlebells? This sounds like fun. Can you do it at home?
SouthernGirl61! Congratulations on 2 lb gone!

Kettlebells are Russian weights (kind of like heavy balls with handles on them). Probably the most famous practitioner these days is Pavel Tsatsouline. His website and the website for RKC (Russian Kettlebell Challenge) is Dragon Door. There are others too--I'm just not as familiar with them. The only thing that I've heard is that Jillian Michael's kettlebell form is terrible.

They are great for working out at home because they don't take up much space. It is important that you get the form right so good instruction is key. If you're not working with a trainer you can get videos that walk you through the moves and really focus in on form.

There are also videos on youtube if you want to see for yourself, but I'm not sure of the quality. My DH and I workout at a studio with RKC trainers and I have been impressed with their focus on safety and good form. If you have access to an experienced kettlebell trainer it's great to get some help with the exercises when you're starting out. After you know the moves and you have the form right you can pretty much do it on your own.

The bells are not cheap, but they will last forever and as I said above, take up a lot less room than any other exercise equipment.
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February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?
Nutritional Ketosis Thread Information and Posts of Interest
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March 2012 to August 2012--175/150 Made Goal 8/27/12!

Last edited by mom2zeke; 09-23-2012 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:44 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island girl2 View Post
I have been reading all of your threads for the past week or so and last Wed. decided to try upping my fats, etc.
Started wed. 203.8, thurs 202.8,fr 202.2, sat 201.8 and today got to 199.8. Thats 4 lbs. in 5 days. I was aiming for 199 by the end of sept. but will definitely take it early.
Havent got a machine but am in low ketosis with urine strips. As we live on an island in northern British Columbia a lot of things are hard to come by unless you order on the internet. Haven't gotten all the kinks out of the plan yet as for the past 2 years have been following lc on and off - got down to 183 but have slowly gained again. As i really love the fats hoping this will keep me on track.
thanks for all your help
island girl2! I'm glad that you're having success so far!
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:49 PM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
There's a graph in the Phinney and Volek "Art and Science of Lowcarb Performance" book that suggests that having blood ketones in the range of 1.5 to 3.0 is optimal, but the book also says that one is "in ketosis" with results at 0.5 or higher, and that there's no advantage to going above 3.0. Since the information is in the form of a graph, it's hard to be precise, but it looks like 1.5-3.0 is optimal, from what I can see.
This is my interpretation of the graph also.

Quote:
If people are doing fine with losing when their blood ketone levels are at 0.5 or in that range, I wouldn't worry about going higher. And I seem to be getting good results just by watching my macros (for me, under 30 grams carbs, 45-55 grams protein, and the rest fat, staying around 1200 calories/day) without doing blood testing.
I agree! If you're losing no need to question success.

I do get caught up in getting the "ideal" ketones and I'm not really even trying to lose. I need to let go as long as I'm above .5 and not gaining weight. But that's easier said than done.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:12 PM   #531
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[QUOTE=mom2zeke;15965395. The only thing that I've heard is that Jillian Michael's kettlebell form is terrible.

.[/QUOTE]

WHAT? But, I thought she was an expert in EVERYTHING???

Just joking folks, I am not an exercise person so this was totally poking fun
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:33 PM   #532
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Of course, I'm quite happy with my consistent weight loss. Based on 7 day moving averages, I'm down 5.4 pounds since August 30th.

Keep clam, Terry
Congratulations on your loss Terry!
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:42 PM   #533
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:08 PM   #534
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JMCM1--Congrats on being wheat-free. This is my goal also and I think I do a pretty good job of it. Going out is always the wild-card for me. I hate being a PITA and asking about all the ingredients in dishes. Flour is used in so many things. But with all the celiac people around it's become easier. Because of some of my medical issues I've been told my multiple doctors to avoid wheat and gluten, and I've felt so much better since I started taking that seriously.

I wasn't able to fully track yesterday because I went out to dinner with my mom and DH. Had an amazing steak dinner, only ate half of my wagyu ribeye (not easy, but that was my goal), had the blue cheese wedge salad, and a bit too much wine. Instead of dessert, when I got home I had a bit more fat (mascarpone cheese and berries). Because of the wine I expected to be out of ketosis this morning, but I guess not eating too much protein combined with the extra fat worked because this morning I registered at 2.0--the highest am ketones I've seen in a while! I was also down to 148.8 on the scale which surprised me.
Kristn this happened to me! I had been weighing every bite of food that went into my mouth being so precise and charting all to keep within my numbers. I am never hungry anyway, so the night of a big party I ate all my protein at that dinner - cheese, steak and vegetables and 3 glasses of wine! I was sure the wine and extra protein would undo everything.

The next morning I was at a new low and still in full ketosis.
And all the celiacs are helping me - lots of gluten free menus out there. Not necessarily low carb.... but I still appreciate their efforts.

I second or third the 'win' that people are figuring out that it's not the ratios that matter. You eat low carb, and you eat to a certain protein number, and the rest is fat until you are satisfied and not past that.

Having said that I cannot wait until Buffy perfects her hot chocolate!!

Clairie ! I am thrilled you are posting here. My dh is a type I!
Diagnosed age 8, now age 60 and doing well.

Congrats to all the losers!
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:34 PM   #535
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Make sure it's good vodka. My favorite is actually Hangar One Mandarin Orange Blossom and club soda. Plain vodka and soda with lime is also good. Diet soda and vodka is okay if the vodka is only so-so.
Just chiming in to say try vodka and Fresca.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:14 AM   #536
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
Start Date: August 6, 2001
Good morning everyone!

Yesterday my maintenance intake was:
Protein: 82.4 (19%)
Fat: 153.9 (79%)
Carbs (not net): 17.2 (3%)
Calories: 1750
This morning:
Weight: 146 (down 2.2)
Ketones: 1.0
BG: 98

Whoa! Unexpected whoosh this morning. I've been up and down on my intake this past week, and if there are any two weeks of the month I'm going to lose it will be this week and (possibly) next. I'm not actually trying to lose, but I'm also actually totally satisfied with what I'm eating and not inclined to eat more just to eat.

Today also marks 4 weeks since I hit my goal. I've been testing ketones daily since then and have consistently been in ketosis (lowest reading was .6). I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to keep up the daily ketone readings. I'll probably take 2 weeks off when I go on vacation a week from Friday and then probably test to make sure I am still in or getting into ketosis when I get back.

How is everyone else doing?
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:15 AM   #537
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
Start Date: August 6, 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by amlyjo View Post
Just chiming in to say try vodka and Fresca.
Ahh yes, a lovely combination!!
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:18 AM   #538
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
Start Date: August 6, 2001
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Having said that I cannot wait until Buffy perfects her hot chocolate!!
I second that!
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Old 09-24-2012, 08:40 AM   #539
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
Start Date: August 6, 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
WHAT? But, I thought she was an expert in EVERYTHING???

Just joking folks, I am not an exercise person so this was totally poking fun
LOL Buffy!

Some people love her other workouts. But the kettlebell peeps are worried that poor form on some of these kb exercises can cause injuries--especially when you start upping the weights.
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Old 09-24-2012, 08:43 AM   #540
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
Start Date: August 6, 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
Kristn this happened to me! I had been weighing every bite of food that went into my mouth being so precise and charting all to keep within my numbers. I am never hungry anyway, so the night of a big party I ate all my protein at that dinner - cheese, steak and vegetables and 3 glasses of wine! I was sure the wine and extra protein would undo everything.

The next morning I was at a new low and still in full ketosis.
And all the celiacs are helping me - lots of gluten free menus out there. Not necessarily low carb.... but I still appreciate their efforts.
I think that the longer you're in ketosis the harder it is to get knocked out of it. Just like it takes 2+ weeks to really get into ketosis it may take more than one day of higher numbers to get you out of ketosis once it's firmly established.
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