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Old 09-22-2012, 01:57 PM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
Thanks so much for the idea....I did that for 4 days about 3 weeks ago, and I have still had some of the fat fast "meals" for current meals to up the fat and lower the protein. I have definitely been staying where I "should be" with regard to grams of protein and fat, and my carbs are usually in the teens for "total" carbs, not net.

I think I need to drop my total calories and have less fat...which sort of defeats the entire idea, but what I'm doing has me with a 2# weightloss over a 3 week period, so won't complain as at least it's a loss! But my ketones stay pretty well around the .9 range.....technically in the NK zone, but nowhere near the 1.5 - 3 that I want to achieve for optimal fat burning.

I test first thing in the AM...and am wondering if others are as well (which is when you get the lowest readings of the day). Maybe I should test before dinner or bedtime to make myself happier with higher numbers??? :-)
Tweak away. I'd start from where you are and keep tweaking downward slowly, in maybe 5% increments, till you get positive feedback from your body.

I think Buffy was saying that she changed when she was testing and got better results.

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Old 09-22-2012, 02:10 PM   #482
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My 4th day eating this way and so far so good! I feel great and eating the higher fat is so satiating and I'm experiencing significant appetite suppression whereas I never did back when I ate just very low carb (and much higher protein than now). My weight dipped 1.5lbs but I think it's probably just water weight and will not continue which is fine since I'm not looking to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Kids4me View Post
For those researching cholesterol and trying to figure out which numbers are important and when to be concerned, Dr. Peter Attia (Eating Academy is his website) has a very thorough series of posts on cholesterol.

--Jamie
Wow, thanks for suggesting this series of posts, as it's some of the best information I've ever seen on this topic. Also reaffirms that my cholesterol numbers are excellent despite my doctor's "slight concerns" and suggestions to eat a more "cholesterol healthy diet".
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:02 PM   #483
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FYI, I lost all but 2 of the 7 pounds I regained due to my birthday carbs and my failed maintenance two week period during the past two weeks of NK. I'm starting to get too hungry, so I'm taking a week to do a real maintenance period with higher fat calories. Think I need to do this pretty regularly to avoid carb binges. Think it's better to feed the body than try to gut it out and get cravings.

I'm telling myself I'd much rather go slow slow slow than get cravings and lose ground due to offplan eating.

Congrats to all the losers!

I'm also still waiting for my meter. I ordered it sometime before my birthday on the 10th... Guess for free there's no rush though!
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2012 lowish Optimal calories, June25th 132.6/124.6/110
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:19 PM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
That brings me to Amy and her thyroid test results. I am "assuming" you are taking some sort of thyroid hormone to have that FT3 number way over range. I hope you are going to see your doc about that as a high FT3 number is scary for a woman for a variety of reasons...unless you took some Cytomel/T3 within a couple hours of the blood draw.
I don't take cytomel, I take Armour. And i did take it within 3 hours of testing. I've never been told to skip my meds, just to fast. Yes, I will talk to her on Monday about it. I've never seen it that high. It has to be from just taking the meds?? Boy I really need to brush up on my thyroid education.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:26 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
Thanks so much for the idea....I did that for 4 days about 3 weeks ago, and I have still had some of the fat fast "meals" for current meals to up the fat and lower the protein. I have definitely been staying where I "should be" with regard to grams of protein and fat, and my carbs are usually in the teens for "total" carbs, not net.

I think I need to drop my total calories and have less fat...which sort of defeats the entire idea, but what I'm doing has me with a 2# weightloss over a 3 week period, so won't complain as at least it's a loss! But my ketones stay pretty well around the .9 range.....technically in the NK zone, but nowhere near the 1.5 - 3 that I want to achieve for optimal fat burning.

I test first thing in the AM...and am wondering if others are as well (which is when you get the lowest readings of the day). Maybe I should test before dinner or bedtime to make myself happier with higher numbers??? :-)
I test first thing in the AM and just today hit 1.6, almost 3 weeks in.
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:17 PM   #486
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I ordered my Nova Max ketone strips today. I'm thinking of switching to the Precision brand because their strips are cheaper. Anybody using this one? I only got the Nova Max because it was free.

I lowered my fat intake today so I hope I see a difference in my scale tomorrow
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:08 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by amlyjo View Post
I don't take cytomel, I take Armour. And i did take it within 3 hours of testing. I've never been told to skip my meds, just to fast. Yes, I will talk to her on Monday about it. I've never seen it that high. It has to be from just taking the meds?? Boy I really need to brush up on my thyroid education.
Just sent you a private message since I didn't think thyroid stuff should be discussed here. :-)
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:11 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
I test first thing in the AM and just today hit 1.6, almost 3 weeks in.
Buffy, that is just wonderful!!!!! Woo hoo!!!!!

I also ordered the free Nova Max meter, but it said it would be 3 weeks for processing, so I went ahead and ordered the meter and extra strips from the diabetes wholesale link that Kristn told us about...and they ship fast. I have already ordered refills that should keep me going for a bit. Waiting for a sale somewhere. I had 2 boxes in my shopping cart at CVS and then the server did not allow me to buy them....and I was gone all day to return to see the post about the big one day sale and my cart still showed 2 boxes, but when I tried to check out (again) it said they were sold out. Maybe next time.
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:11 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
WTG Mom 2 4, that is a super loss for week one.

Yes, I was one of the ones with the headaches, none yesterday and so far none today so maybe I am moving past that.

How about eating before you go tonight, then just picking at your food, claim your tummy is a little off, anything to avoid ruining what you have worked so hard for all week!!! It really sets you back if you swerve off on this, I would avoid it if at all possible. Just my 2 cents, you will do what you need to do, but best to you on it.
Buffy I took your advice and ate before I went. I did still eat there but not as much as I wanted to lol. S hopefully I won't get hit to hard by the scale in the AM. I also worked my butt off today pressure washing our entire two story house plus the wrap around porch and deck! Omg that was a workout!! Just for the heck of it I checked my ketones (via urine) and they were in the high range!
WTH? They have NEVER been that high the entire time I've been checking them! They are usually in the steady moderate range. Thought that was weird, even though I know they are not extremely accurate.

Btw, how long does it take to get the free meter in? I ordered mine about 2-3 weeks ago and still haven't gotten it. Is that normal?

Hope everyone is having a fabulous weekends!! I'm really hoping to do some relaxing tomorrow before the start of another busy busy week!
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:15 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by mom_2_4 View Post
Buffy I took your advice and ate before I went. I did still eat there but not as much as I wanted to lol.

I also worked my butt off today pressure washing our entire two story house plus the wrap around porch and deck! Omg that was a workout!!

Btw, how long does it take to get the free meter in? I ordered mine about 2-3 weeks ago and still haven't gotten it. Is that normal?
Good going on eating before tonights outing with food! Good job!

You deserve a real relaxing day tomorrow after all you did today with the power washer. My goodness you did a lot!

I ordered my free meter about 3 weeks ago...don't know when it will come but I purchased my own online knowing that when the other came, I'd have a "free backup". My free one hasn't come yet either.

I think the body raises ketones when consuming coconut oil, MCT oil, and heavy duty exercise....that's what I recall reading in the book anyway. Someone will correct me if that's wrong. So, that could be why your urine ketones went into the "deep zone" of color! Such fun for you!!!!

Now rest!!!
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:33 PM   #491
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Hi everyone! I am a week into this and am totally obsessed! I ahve been LC for a long time, and am a type 1 diabetic, also have hashimoto's.
Got my ketone meter and am testing way too much, but am so curious! time of day, pre-eating, post workout...
no weight loss yet... kinda bummed.
ketones are AM .7 and get up to 1.8 in the evening
ratios are
83
12
5
and I am this today:
144fat
52 pro
19 cho
1670 calories
worked out big time doing kettlebells today

I feel like I snack too much- dipping spoons of a mix I make of crushed up macadmias in grass fed butter- kerry gold- good stuff! omega 3's!

I learned that wine is really hard to drink now! I used to drink 3 glasses sometimes in an evening, and now 1 glass of red makes me feel so sick.

I also need a lot of salt, broth, and sprinkle celtic sea salt when I can. I get really light headed fast on this woe.

so hi all!! I am so glad I found you!
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:36 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom_2_4 View Post
Buffy I took your advice and ate before I went. I did still eat there but not as much as I wanted to lol. S hopefully I won't get hit to hard by the scale in the AM. I also worked my butt off today pressure washing our entire two story house plus the wrap around porch and deck! Omg that was a workout!! Just for the heck of it I checked my ketones (via urine) and they were in the high range!
WTH? They have NEVER been that high the entire time I've been checking them! They are usually in the steady moderate range. Thought that was weird, even though I know they are not extremely accurate.

Btw, how long does it take to get the free meter in? I ordered mine about 2-3 weeks ago and still haven't gotten it. Is that normal?

Hope everyone is having a fabulous weekends!! I'm really hoping to do some relaxing tomorrow before the start of another busy busy week!
Good job on making the best of the situation. I always make sure I go to events full, otherwise the temptation is too high. I went to a bridal shower today and passed up all the goodies.

My meter hasn't come yet, I got impatient and went to walgreens and bought one.
What did u eat at the event? Hopefully it was fairly LC
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:39 PM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairie View Post
Hi everyone! I am a week into this and am totally obsessed! I ahve been LC for a long time, and am a type 1 diabetic, also have hashimoto's.
Got my ketone meter and am testing way too much, but am so curious! time of day, pre-eating, post workout...
no weight loss yet... kinda bummed.
ketones are AM .7 and get up to 1.8 in the evening
ratios are
83
12
5
and I am this today:
144fat
52 pro
19 cho
1670 calories
worked out big time doing kettlebells today

I feel like I snack too much- dipping spoons of a mix I make of crushed up macadmias in grass fed butter- kerry gold- good stuff! omega 3's!

I learned that wine is really hard to drink now! I used to drink 3 glasses sometimes in an evening, and now 1 glass of red makes me feel so sick.

I also need a lot of salt, broth, and sprinkle celtic sea salt when I can. I get really light headed fast on this woe.

so hi all!! I am so glad I found you!
Glad you found us, it just gets better and better. Of course you know to watch your BG closely as a diabetic. Sounds like you are off to a great start.
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:49 PM   #494
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Thanks!
yes, I am on an insulin pump and test my BG's ten times a day. Eating this way has greatly reduced my total insulin needs, and I am much more stable- no more rollercoaster of chasing carbs with insulin! Now if only I could get a Rx for ketone strips!! my endo isn't too excited about me being in NK, he's a little old school. I have followed a popular Diabetic diet for years- Dr Bernstein, who is also a type 1, but his diet isn't this low in protein. He doesn't worry about his type 1 patients going into diabetic ketoacidosis eating VLC, so he doesn't tell them to test for ketones much. I want to know where I am though, for my own piece of mind. So far, I am not even close to 3 let alone 40 (I believe that is the super high DKA amount)
have a great night!
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:55 PM   #495
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Had a perfect day food wise until I decided to experiment with making a hot chocolate drink using HWC and unsweet almond milk. My mistake was to drink it to see if it was good before I entered the recipe and got the counts on it. Put me over on calories by about 250, should always check before you bite, or drink I am learning.

Will work on it, I just had vanilla flavored almond milk so it was a little on the vanilla side but pretty good. I need to use less HWC to lower the calories, if I get it to where I really like it, I will post it.

Good Night all.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:41 AM   #496
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
Start Date: August 6, 2001
Good morning everyone!

Yesterday my maintenance intake was:
Protein: 69.9 (23%)
Fat: 99.6 (72%)
Carbs (not net): 16.6 (5%)
Calories: 1237
This morning:
Weight: 148.2
Ketones: 1.2
BG: 87

I did not mean to eat so little yesterday. I was still full from the night before so I just had coffee with coconut cream for breakfast. I was also planning on going out last night so I was saving some calories for cocktails. But my mom was too tired to go out so we stayed home instead.

How is everyone else doing??
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:50 AM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairie View Post
Hi everyone! I am a week into this and am totally obsessed! I ahve been LC for a long time, and am a type 1 diabetic, also have hashimoto's.
Got my ketone meter and am testing way too much, but am so curious! time of day, pre-eating, post workout...
no weight loss yet... kinda bummed.
ketones are AM .7 and get up to 1.8 in the evening
ratios are
83
12
5
and I am this today:
144fat
52 pro
19 cho
1670 calories
worked out big time doing kettlebells today

I feel like I snack too much- dipping spoons of a mix I make of crushed up macadmias in grass fed butter- kerry gold- good stuff! omega 3's!

I learned that wine is really hard to drink now! I used to drink 3 glasses sometimes in an evening, and now 1 glass of red makes me feel so sick.

I also need a lot of salt, broth, and sprinkle celtic sea salt when I can. I get really light headed fast on this woe.

so hi all!! I am so glad I found you!
clairie! It's great to have another kettlebeller in here!

Are you on thyroid hormone for your Hashimoto's? Do you feel like you are optimized for thyroid? How much are you trying to lose?

It seems like it's taking people 2-3 weeks to really get consistently into the optimal NK zone (1.5-3). If you are in that zone and not losing you may need to slightly decrease your fat to get the ball rolling on weight-loss.

I have the same experience with wine--and I love it so much. For me, top-shelf vodka is a good substitute.
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February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?
Nutritional Ketosis Thread Information and Posts of Interest
My Maintenance Journal
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March 2012 to August 2012--175/150 Made Goal 8/27/12!
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:57 AM   #498
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Had a perfect day food wise until I decided to experiment with making a hot chocolate drink using HWC and unsweet almond milk. My mistake was to drink it to see if it was good before I entered the recipe and got the counts on it. Put me over on calories by about 250, should always check before you bite, or drink I am learning.

Will work on it, I just had vanilla flavored almond milk so it was a little on the vanilla side but pretty good. I need to use less HWC to lower the calories, if I get it to where I really like it, I will post it.

Good Night all.
At least they were probably all fat calories! I'm learning that if I'm going to go over my day's plan I should err on the side of fat.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:00 AM   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
I ordered my free meter about 3 weeks ago...don't know when it will come but I purchased my own online knowing that when the other came, I'd have a "free backup". My free one hasn't come yet either.
I wonder if this whole NK phenomenon overwhelmed the manufacturer! When I ordered mine I think it took 2 or 3 weeks. Hopefully everyone's meters will be arriving soon!
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:02 AM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfine View Post
I ordered my Nova Max ketone strips today. I'm thinking of switching to the Precision brand because their strips are cheaper. Anybody using this one? I only got the Nova Max because it was free.

I lowered my fat intake today so I hope I see a difference in my scale tomorrow
I think there are a few Precision users here. I know that Terry and Rebecca have the Precision meter and there may be a few others.

Good luck with lowering fat. It may take a few days to show up on the scale.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:07 AM   #501
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
Thanks so much for the idea....I did that for 4 days about 3 weeks ago, and I have still had some of the fat fast "meals" for current meals to up the fat and lower the protein. I have definitely been staying where I "should be" with regard to grams of protein and fat, and my carbs are usually in the teens for "total" carbs, not net.

I think I need to drop my total calories and have less fat...which sort of defeats the entire idea, but what I'm doing has me with a 2# weightloss over a 3 week period, so won't complain as at least it's a loss! But my ketones stay pretty well around the .9 range.....technically in the NK zone, but nowhere near the 1.5 - 3 that I want to achieve for optimal fat burning.

I test first thing in the AM...and am wondering if others are as well (which is when you get the lowest readings of the day). Maybe I should test before dinner or bedtime to make myself happier with higher numbers??? :-)
I always test first thing in the am. You could try testing throughout the day to see where you are.

I don't think dropping calories and having less fat defeats the idea. That is what I did and it worked great for me. When you are in ketosis and you drop your fat % from intake you then access more of your body fat as part of your total fat %.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:17 AM   #502
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Congratulations to everyone on their losses!!

Mike--when my thyroid was off my cholesterol went way up. The lab ranges for TSH especially are pretty meaningless--your doctor should be able to better interpret the numbers or you can post on the thyroid board here and get some opinions.

Amy--I can't lose when my T3 is too high or too low. Yours may be fine for you.

mom_2_4--great job making it through the fundraising dinner!
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:18 AM   #503
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I am still following the NK guidelines AND continuing with my JUDDD UD/DD rotations. The highfat has helped with my sweet tooth so that is good. Anyway my weighin this morning was 142.8 and my goal weight is 140, so I am getting closer. I guess NK did shake me up enough to sgtart a little faster weight loss as I get closer and closer to my goal. I have not weighed 142 since before DS was born over 23 years ago. I did get down to 144 several years ago.

SO why did I gain back up to 180??? A foot problem caused me not to be able to do my daily walk and since I was bummed about my constant foot pain I relaxed on my eating and just ate anything. Fast forward to foot surgery and being dependent on DH for food and all the grocery shopping. Walking on crutches is not good for weightloss I discovered. Four months on crutches equaled more weight gain. Boo Hiss. Finally decided (now that my foot is completely healed) to get back to the weightloss and I am almost there.
More information than anyone ever wanted but I always wonder why.

Since I have so many home grown eggs, I am centering my meals around eggs which has worked out very well for me. Not suggesting that for anyone else. It has just worked in my situation.

Oh and I "own" a kettlebell. I bruised myself up so bad trying to learn that routine I now use it for a door stop on the porch.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:49 AM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
clairie! It's great to have another kettlebeller in here!

Are you on thyroid hormone for your Hashimoto's? Do you feel like you are optimized for thyroid? How much are you trying to lose?

It seems like it's taking people 2-3 weeks to really get consistently into the optimal NK zone (1.5-3). If you are in that zone and not losing you may need to slightly decrease your fat to get the ball rolling on weight-loss.

I have the same experience with wine--and I love it so much. For me, top-shelf vodka is a good substitute.
Awesome!
I love kettlebells!!! I'm in the best shape ever since I started using them. I love how I can do them barefoot! so fun.

I am on Cytomel as well as Synthroid. I gained about 30 lbs over a year until I realized my T3 was low. Endo never checked it- thought it must be insulin related, me being type 1. It's easy to over-do insulin and gain weight just like non-diabetics! So, when I asked him to see if I was low, sure enough I was. Lost 8 lbs and then stalled.
I think you are right about overdoing the fat. I have been going for the 83% - but- my calories are so high when I go for that. I also get that grossed-out feeling. Big sign to stop eating! Reading Volek and Phinney last night reminded me to keep fat where I am losing and not worry so much about getting it super high. I think they said 65-85%? is that right?

I use the Precision Xtra meter and like it a lot. This morning fasting is 0.9 so I am slowly going up. In the last 3 day it is
0.7
0.8
0.9

BG fasting was 101 today- woot woot!!!
I'll try vodka tonight instead of wine and see if I feel better. I like a drink at night to relax, and wine has been my "go to" for years. Thanks for the encouragement and tips!! I love this thread!!

Last edited by clairie; 09-23-2012 at 08:10 AM.. Reason: typos
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:04 AM   #505
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Morning!
I too have loved wine in the past and just love the whole wine experience, learning about it, learning how to drink it and which glasses, storing it, etc. But, wine and liquor have gotten to where they don't like me so much. I don't feel very good after just having a couple of drinks, I don't sleep well at all, so lately I haven't been drinking and that is good when I came to this WOE. Not nearly the temptation it used to be, plus when we were younger we went out a lot more.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:05 AM   #506
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Adillenal, glad you found how to tweak to get those last few lbs off!
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:07 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
I wonder if this whole NK phenomenon overwhelmed the manufacturer! When I ordered mine I think it took 2 or 3 weeks. Hopefully everyone's meters will be arriving soon!
Anxious to see where this all goes, expect to see more about it all over the place and media.

A good friend asked me to show her how to do it recently. I said "well, you've done LC before, right?" NO, she has never even read about LC. OMG, where do I even start? I told her the first thing she needed to do was to get an atkins book, start out on induction and then I would help her from there. We will see where it goes, I don't think she is really ready to commit to this yet.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:09 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by clairie View Post
Awesome!
I love kettlebells!!! I'm in the best shape ever since I started using them. I love how I can do them barefoot! so fun.
I love the barefoot thing too! DH and I have been doing kettlebells for 3.5 months at an RKC studio near where we live. It's amazing what the combo of weights and dynamic movement can do for your fitness.

Quote:
I am on Cytomel as well as Synthroid. I gained about 30 lbs over a year until I realized my T3 was low. Endo never checked it- thought it must be insulin related, me being type 1. It's easy to over-do insulin and gain weight jsut like non-diabetics! So, when I asked him to see if I was low, sure enough I was. Lost 8 lbs and then stalled.
I do the T4/T3 combo myself. Getting it right has made all the difference. It didn't make me lose, it just made it possible to lose KWIM.

Quote:
I think you are right about overdoing the fat. I have been going for the 83% - but- my calories are so high when I go for that. I also get that grossed-out feeling. Big sign to stop eating! Reading Volek and Phinney last night reminded me to keep fat where I am losing and not worry so much about getting it super high. I think they said 65-85%? is that right?
Yes, 65%-85%. I think when people get caught up in having to get to 85% they lose sight of this. The performance book is mostly written for athletes who are not trying to lose weight so they need more fat from their diet rather than from their fat stores. Definitely eating beyond satiety doesn't make any sense just to get the fat% up if you're already in NK.

Quote:
I use the Precision Xtra meter and like it a lot. This morning fasting is 0.9 so i am slowly going up. In the last 3 day it is
0.7
0.8
0.9

BG fasting was 101 today- woot woot!!!
I'll try vodka tonight instead of wine and see if I fell better. I like a drink at night to relax, and wine has been my "go to" for years. Thanks for the encouragement and tips!! I love this thread!!
It's great that you're ketosis numbers and BG are heading in the right direction!

Make sure it's good vodka. My favorite is actually Hangar One Mandarin Orange Blossom and club soda. Plain vodka and soda with lime is also good. Diet soda and vodka is okay if the vodka is only so-so.

Last edited by mom2zeke; 09-23-2012 at 08:10 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:09 AM   #509
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At least they were probably all fat calories! I'm learning that if I'm going to go over my day's plan I should err on the side of fat.
Yes, the calories all pretty much came from the HWC. As I tweak the recipe it will work into our plan, just need to allow more calories for that instead of waiting to the end of the day when all I had left on my menu was a fat bomb, then deciding to make that Needless to say, I didn't get the fat bomb I enjoy every night.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:15 AM   #510
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I too think that too many people get caught up in those percentage numbers and for some reason think that 80% fat is a magic number they have to strive for. As you have pointed out several times Kristn, it isn't percentages we are looking for so much as the grams of protein and carbs, then let fat fill us up.

I have to admit, I do like looking at my pie chart each day and see the percentages, I have to keep reminging myself that 80% fat is not the magic, just one of the tools. Like you said, 65-80% is the range to strive for to keep us burning body fat, more isn't necessarily better.
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