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Old 09-19-2012, 07:20 AM   #331
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Good morning everyone!

Yesterdays maintenance intake:
Carbs: 23.7 (4%)
Protein: 80.9 (19%)
Fat: 144.4 (77%)
Calories: 1695
This morning:
Ketones: 1.0
BG: 91
Weight: 150.8 (up .2)

Week days seem to be pretty easy for me to stay on plan, although my mother arrives today for a 5 day stay so we'll see how that goes. She's very supportive of anything I do, but I start feeling self-conscious when she's around.

I hope that my CVS strips actually materialize. After Dottie posted that her friend's order was cancelled I went and checked mine. It's still "in process" and hasn't shipped. I'm crossing my fingers that it worked!

How is everyone doing today?
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February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?
Nutritional Ketosis Thread Information and Posts of Interest
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Original weight 2001--257 Maintaining 165-175 from 2002-March 2012
March 2012 to August 2012--175/150 Made Goal 8/27/12!
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:23 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Hi Maybelle--don't be embarrassed, we've all been there! Every day and every meal is a chance to make better choices. Do you have an idea about what's going on? Evenings can be really tough--perhaps you're not eating enough during the day?

I saw in another thread that you are originally from Prague. My 20 y.o. son is studying there right now.
Thanks.

I'm just not feeling very satiated lately. Yesterday it was probably a combination of boredom/grazing instead of just sitting down and having a proper meal. I thought about the not eating too much during the day, but I do get to around 900calories after lunch (the last couple of days have been around 350 for breakfast, 550 for lunch)...don't know...

Prague is very nice- our family moved when I was 10 due to my dad's job so when I go back I see it more as a tourist but still very enjoyable. Does your son like it (beyond the beer? )?
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:44 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by maybelle View Post
Thanks.

I'm just not feeling very satiated lately. Yesterday it was probably a combination of boredom/grazing instead of just sitting down and having a proper meal. I thought about the not eating too much during the day, but I do get to around 900calories after lunch (the last couple of days have been around 350 for breakfast, 550 for lunch)...don't know...
I wonder if it's because you're not quite in ketosis yet? I know that there was a bit of "white knuckling" for me until ketosis set in. I also try to limit myself to mealtime eating (with one late afternoon snack) instead of grazing. It's a tough habit to get into, but it eventually gets better.

Quote:
Prague is very nice- our family moved when I was 10 due to my dad's job so when I go back I see it more as a tourist but still very enjoyable. Does your son like it (beyond the beer? )?
My son loves it! He's working hard and having a great time. His goal is to live and work in Europe when he graduates from college. We'll see if that actually pans out for him. But for now he's really enjoying his taste of living there.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:23 AM   #334
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I have lost six pounds since Saturday!!! I still can't believe it. I am 1/2lb away from 50lbs total!!!
WOW!! That's fabulous!! Congrats!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:25 AM   #335
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Because I tend to be a little obsessive about these things (a little ) I ordered another nova max ($13.99 through amazon, 10 keto and 50 glucose strips included) to double check the accuracy.
I checked blood sugar just now and the NM showed 124 and my freestyle showed 82. That's a HUGE difference.
On a lark, I also checked the ketones and got a reading of 0.8.
We'll see how that goes. Kind of depends on how much my fingers can take
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:28 AM   #336
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BTW I'm not invading your thread (I hope).
I do the JUDDD plan primarily but I tend to eat low-carb on it and I was curious reading these threads.
I saw someone post that juddd can't be ketogenic, and well that's just a challenge! .
I had a down day yesterday and ended up eating within my calorie range of food but did add 1T coconut oil (which I don't count anyway) and 1T evoo.
I do think it's doable as ketogenic if you are willing to raise your down day calories to 750-800.
I won't post my experiment here and bug you all, but I'll let you know if it does work
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:33 AM   #337
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I did pretty good yesterday but the scale reflected no loss today For some reason I had a lot of water retention, maybe it was the dill relish or seasoning I used last night? I couldn't even get my wedding ring off this morning my hands were so swollen!! I need to work on my water intake for sure, that's a constant struggle for me and always has been

Still don't have a meter to check ketones in blood but have continued to use the urine ones and it shows a pretty constant "moderate". Although I do know that they are not very accurate.

I've been doing a lot of googling about this plan and people seem to either swear by it or swear it doesn't work. So far I am pretty pleased with it, but have only been doing it 5 days. In five days I have lost 6-8 pounds though which is better than I did restarting the LC only.

But I'd like to take a survey of sorts if you all will entertain the idea, I'm curious how much weight people have lost doing NK and low long it has taken them to lose that weight thus far. I'll go first!

6-8 pounds (I always fluctuated daily between 218-220) now at 212
Took 5 days, I'm a beginner
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:36 AM   #338
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Ooooops, almost forgot to post my tintake for yesterday

Calories:1367.2
Carbs: 9.3
Fat:124.2
Protein:55.4

Maybe I needed to bring my fat up some??
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:39 AM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
BTW I'm not invading your thread (I hope).
I do the JUDDD plan primarily but I tend to eat low-carb on it and I was curious reading these threads.
I saw someone post that juddd can't be ketogenic, and well that's just a challenge! .
I had a down day yesterday and ended up eating within my calorie range of food but did add 1T coconut oil (which I don't count anyway) and 1T evoo.
I do think it's doable as ketogenic if you are willing to raise your down day calories to 750-800.
I won't post my experiment here and bug you all, but I'll let you know if it does work
Dottie, you are MORE than welcome here, you are not invading. Please stay with us and continue to post your experiment on here as we are all learning and continue to learn. Or, at least I think this more keto woe is newer to most of us.

Curious to know why you don't count the calories in CO? Is that part of JUDD? Just commenting because I have been a member on here for years and way back a group of us had a thread going where we were wallowing in and eating coconut oil, but, I was not counting it and starting actually gaining. One of our group, was smart enough to keep say, you have to count the calories and use it in place of something else but I wasn't smart enough to listen.

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Old 09-19-2012, 09:41 AM   #340
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Personal choice. I do believe that coconut oil (within reason - I only use 1T and don't count it) is more a catalyst for fat burning than it is a "calories in" kind of thing. I have read several studies (a lot of paleo/primal stuff) that suggest it tells your body to burn fat for fuel.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:46 AM   #341
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I bought a scale, which arrived yesterday, and learned that I've lost 5 pounds between August 28 and now. That may not sound like a lot, but to me it's a HUGE improvement over losing 1 pound per month between May 28 and August 28, despite keeping carbs and calories low, eating super clean, and never going off plan. So I'll definitely be sticking with the NK approach, keeping net carbs under 20, protein grams around 50, and calories around 1200/day. I also am not having nearly as much trouble with gnawing hunger in the absence of high protein than I had at the start.

Thanks so much for starting this challenge/group, Kristn. At the rate I was losing before, it would have taken me about 6 years to reach my goal, assuming that I continued to lose at all. Now, if this NK approach continues to work, I can imagine getting there in a year or two.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:51 AM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom_2_4 View Post
But I'd like to take a survey of sorts if you all will entertain the idea, I'm curious how much weight people have lost doing NK and low long it has taken them to lose that weight thus far. I'll go first!
I've lost 25 pounds. I'm not sure exactly how long it took. I was 175 at the doctor's office mid-March and I was 150 on August 27th. I didn't start tracking consistently until I started the NK thread on July 15th when I was 160 lbs. The other data point of note is that I've been trying to lose this weight for 9.5 years without success.

I've read some of the other threads where people are trying NK and I do think that there is this notion out there that if your %s are correct that you will lose weight, no matter how much food you eat. Also, the belief that if you're in NK (as shown on meter) and not losing that you should increase your fat. I do not believe that either of these ideas is true, and it's certainly not what Phinney and Volek wrote in their books.

As we have discovered here it's all about getting the correct absolute protein and carb gram numbers to get into NK. Eating too much fat will keep you from losing. So when people add fat to try and get some correct percentage it may be counter productive. Also, if you're eating too many calories your percentages may look great, but your absolute protein and carb numbers may be way too high.

Last edited by mom2zeke; 09-19-2012 at 09:54 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:53 AM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
I bought a scale, which arrived yesterday, and learned that I've lost 5 pounds between August 28 and now. That may not sound like a lot, but to me it's a HUGE improvement over losing 1 pound per month between May 28 and August 28, despite keeping carbs and calories low, eating super clean, and never going off plan. So I'll definitely be sticking with the NK approach, keeping net carbs under 20, protein grams around 50, and calories around 1200/day. I also am not having nearly as much trouble with gnawing hunger in the absence of high protein than I had at the start.

Thanks so much for starting this challenge/group, Kristn. At the rate I was losing before, it would have taken me about 6 years to reach my goal, assuming that I continued to lose at all. Now, if this NK approach continues to work, I can imagine getting there in a year or two.
Congratulations svenskamae!! I'm so glad this is working for you. And thank you for all of your great recipes and the recipe thread!
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #344
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I know that we've discussed the exercise issue before. There's an interesting article in the NY Times today, For Weight Loss, Less Exercise May Be More. From my experience I have come to believe that getting the right amount of exercise is important to both weight loss and well being, but that more is not always better.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:09 AM   #345
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If you are getting results, why would you test at all?
Good question. Because everyone else is? Really, the meter was free, so I figured why not, and I ordered it on day one of starting this plan and had no idea I would have these kinds of great results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfine View Post
I have lost six pounds since Saturday!!! I still can't believe it. I am 1/2lb away from 50lbs total!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
Personal choice. I do believe that coconut oil (within reason - I only use 1T and don't count it) is more a catalyst for fat burning than it is a "calories in" kind of thing. I have read several studies (a lot of paleo/primal stuff) that suggest it tells your body to burn fat for fuel.
Moooooommmmmmmmm, Dottie SAAAAIIIIIDDDDD! I have to eat it!! Seriously it tells your body...reason enough for me!
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:18 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by mom_2_4 View Post
I did pretty good yesterday but the scale reflected no loss today For some reason I had a lot of water retention, maybe it was the dill relish or seasoning I used last night? I couldn't even get my wedding ring off this morning my hands were so swollen!! I need to work on my water intake for sure, that's a constant struggle for me and always has been

Still don't have a meter to check ketones in blood but have continued to use the urine ones and it shows a pretty constant "moderate". Although I do know that they are not very accurate.

I've been doing a lot of googling about this plan and people seem to either swear by it or swear it doesn't work. So far I am pretty pleased with it, but have only been doing it 5 days. In five days I have lost 6-8 pounds though which is better than I did restarting the LC only.

But I'd like to take a survey of sorts if you all will entertain the idea, I'm curious how much weight people have lost doing NK and low long it has taken them to lose that weight thus far. I'll go first!

6-8 pounds (I always fluctuated daily between 218-220) now at 212
Took 5 days, I'm a beginner
I have water retention sometimes too. I noticed it twice in the last couple of month, not necessarily related to my cycle, but then I couldn't otherwise figure it out if there were no significant dietary changes to account for it. I think I figured out it IS part of my cycle, but more mid-way - around ovulation. All I could do was drink lots and lots of water and in about 3-4 days it disappeared.

As for your survey... I started NK on 9/7 - so that's about 12 days - and I am down right at 10 lbs. I was on LC - Induction I guess - before that. But stalled for the most part. I follow this plan very closely to have 80/15/5.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:20 AM   #347
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Ooooops, almost forgot to post my tintake for yesterday

Calories:1367.2
Carbs: 9.3
Fat:124.2
Protein:55.4

Maybe I needed to bring my fat up some??
I don't think you're eating enough. Maybe up the fat and quantity.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:24 AM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom_2_4 View Post
I did pretty good yesterday but the scale reflected no loss today For some reason I had a lot of water retention, maybe it was the dill relish or seasoning I used last night? I couldn't even get my wedding ring off this morning my hands were so swollen!! I need to work on my water intake for sure, that's a constant struggle for me and always has been
I wouldn't expect a loss every day, you are setting yourself up for disappointment if that's your expectation. Just keep doing what you're doing as you've had great success so far!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:26 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
Because I tend to be a little obsessive about these things (a little ) I ordered another nova max ($13.99 through amazon, 10 keto and 50 glucose strips included) to double check the accuracy.
I checked blood sugar just now and the NM showed 124 and my freestyle showed 82. That's a HUGE difference.
On a lark, I also checked the ketones and got a reading of 0.8.
We'll see how that goes. Kind of depends on how much my fingers can take
That was worth it just to get the 10 ketone strips!!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:28 AM   #350
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I know! 10 strips alone are $29 so it was a bargain and I can give one of the meters to my mother with the blood glucose strips.
Adding: it doesn't really matter if it's accurate, she doesn't actually care, she just wants people to think she does
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:29 AM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
Personal choice. I do believe that coconut oil (within reason - I only use 1T and don't count it) is more a catalyst for fat burning than it is a "calories in" kind of thing. I have read several studies (a lot of paleo/primal stuff) that suggest it tells your body to burn fat for fuel.
Glad to hear about those studies
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:30 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
I've lost 25 pounds. I'm not sure exactly how long it took. I was 175 at the doctor's office mid-March and I was 150 on August 27th. I didn't start tracking consistently until I started the NK thread on July 15th when I was 160 lbs. The other data point of note is that I've been trying to lose this weight for 9.5 years without success.

I've read some of the other threads where people are trying NK and I do think that there is this notion out there that if your %s are correct that you will lose weight, no matter how much food you eat. Also, the belief that if you're in NK (as shown on meter) and not losing that you should increase your fat. I do not believe that either of these ideas is true, and it's certainly not what Phinney and Volek wrote in their books.

As we have discovered here it's all about getting the correct absolute protein and carb gram numbers to get into NK. Eating too much fat will keep you from losing. So when people add fat to try and get some correct percentage it may be counter productive. Also, if you're eating too many calories your percentages may look great, but your absolute protein and carb numbers may be way too high.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:56 AM   #353
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I wouldn't expect a loss every day, you are setting yourself up for disappointment if that's your expectation. Just keep doing what you're doing as you've had great success so far!!
You are definitely right. I guess after stalling on the LC induction I am just hoping to see something (progress) that shows me that this is going to work. LC worked so GREAT for me before, lost 100 pounds and most of it was literally overnight, like 60-70 pounds in about 3-4 months, but I suppose that was because I had A LOT of weight to lose also (I weighed 300 pounds). I guess I am afraid that this won't work either or that I will stall and be stuck again.

I guess I shouldn't lose sight of the fact that I have always been relatively happy at around 185-200 pounds and I'm really not far from that at all!

Thanks for reminding me that any loss is GREAT!!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:09 AM   #354
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Congratulations!! What do you think has been the key to your success on this plan?
It has to be lowering my protein intake. I have upped my fat a bit, but not too much. The protein was holding me back

SVEN-I am SO happy that you've finally started losing again. I don't know that I could have been as strict as you were during that time. Congratulations!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:27 AM   #355
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Lots of posts to respond to. First...Dottie, I think everyone is just delighted with you posting here....I know I am and am excited that you find what we are all doing to be interesting. We think so too! :-)

I checked your "deal" at amazon, and it's 10 glucose strips, not ketone strips...big difference....I got all excited and was ready to order!

Mom 2 4....re: how long we have been doing this and what are our personal results. I'm in a similar spot to Kristn in having been doing Atkins induction for years....and having no changes for the 'positive' since I was following the calories in/out plan and the macros of low carb and high protein/fat. Didn't work. I think this is my 3rd week of really towing the line and trying to fine tune it for MY body....all based on Kristn's challenge and Rebecca's blog and posts to help , me find how many grams of protein I needed and then filling in the rest...I don't do "net" carbs....I do total carbs and they are never over 20 (total) and usually in the teens or lower. I'm that sensitive to even veggie/lettuce carbs (as is Christina!). Yesterday was my first "whoosh" that you all talk about, but mine was not water. I've been holding my own with about .5# loss a week for a couple weeks, and then POOF, I lost 1.5# overnight yesterday and was down another .2# this morning from yesterday, so big changes all of a sudden. I found that I had to RAISE my protein...I had dropped it below the calculations a bit to see if that would help. Nope...made it worse. It's all a process and I love playing detective anyway, so I'm having fun with this. So, like Phinney/Volek said...takes 2 weeks to a month to really notice the changes, but I think they were saying to get INTO ketosis....and in my case, I've been in that state for weeks, but it took even longer to fine tune the grams of protein and such. I agree with Kristn that it has nothing to do with percentages, but that's a good start. For me, I have to be under 20% protein and about 80% fat and definitely under 20 *total* carbs/day.

Also....I have been walking...sort of strolling with women/dogs and we are all in our 60's and 70's (not young) and so it's definitely not speed walking, but we do go up a couple pretty steep hills and back down. ie., not cardio! I used to lift heavy weights and do hard workouts and HIIT. I think, for me, that the heavy duty exercise caused my cortisol levels to control my weight...and now I just move over 10,000 steps a day (wear a pedometer) and that's about 5 miles by my stride. It's working well, but I'm going to add back the weights starting next week to "see" what happens.

Hope that makes sense. Everyone is really doing their "detective work" and it's paying off. Hip Hip Hooray!!!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:57 AM   #356
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Just checking in today. In my third week of this and finding my appetite greatly reduced. With my 2 big cups of coffee/1T of CO each, I am not even thinking about eating until noon or so. I am not an early riser and work at home, so don't have to get up and eat something to hold me until lunch. Loving the way I feel, I am sleeping better and getting to sleep easily. Did add the magnesium so that might be a factor in the sleeping. Have mentioned this several times but skin not nearly as dry. No carb fog.

There is one problem I am having though!! Spending way too much time on the boards and blogs reading about this, looking at recipes, etc. Having trouble getting my work done. Has anyone else noticed this side effect?
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:15 PM   #357
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Congrats to all the losers!!!!!!! YAY!!! It's working let's keep it going!!!!!

Dottie, what Buffy and Shelley said
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:21 PM   #358
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WOE: Atkins for the first 100 lbs now doing NK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post


Also....I have been walking...sort of strolling with women/dogs and we are all in our 60's and 70's (not young) and so it's definitely not speed walking, but we do go up a couple pretty steep hills and back down.

Hope that makes sense. Everyone is really doing their "detective work" and it's paying off. Hip Hip Hooray!!!!
WISH I could find a work out routine that I could tolerate. I have had multiple knee surgeries and am waiting to have another one once technology catches up to what I need done so walking etc. is out for me. I can ride my stationary bike better than anything else, which I do when I have time. Also went to see me OS yesterday for an update on my sons knee MRI and he looked at my right arm, which has been hurting, and it appears I have tennis elbow in that arm! I work a second job on Fridays and some Saturdays, which we remodel houses, and I apparently did to much painting!! I'm 33 and falling apart is what's happening. We have horses, so I ride them from time to time, not sure how much of a work out it is but everything sure hurts for days after LOL And we have a pool but it'll be getting too cold to do much in that soon. Ya'll know that show sit and be fit?!?!?! That's what I need.... seriously!
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:46 PM   #359
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Shelley I'll double check because I could swear it said 10K strips and 50BG strips - I'll get back to you!
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:06 PM   #360
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Ok I swear I am not losing my mind
The one I ordered last night showed a pic of both kinds of strips and said "10k strips and 50BG strips" it's a kit.
I'll let you know when I get it if they changed the description after.
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