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-   -   Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/778098-nutritional-ketosis-lc-hf-mp-challenge-anyone.html)

mom2zeke 07-15-2012 08:54 AM

Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?
 
Hi,
I've been away from this site for a long time but I'm back to finally (hopefully) reach my goal. I maintained ~90 pound weight loss for 9.5 years but never quite made it to goal. I was able to maintain relatively easily at 175 by sticking to low carb foods and not really counting anything. But I really would like to finally make it to goal.

I've been slowly moving towards low carb/high fat/moderate protein aka nutritional ketosis as described by Phinney/Volek in The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. I always hated counting but I have started using ****** to track and it has been useful. It really seems to be working as I am 10 pounds from goal as of this morning.

So would anyone like to join me in this challenge? The goal is to achieve nutritional ketosis for weight loss.

If you're interested in reading the books I have them on kindle and I believe that I can lend them out for 14 days.

jeaniem 07-15-2012 09:57 AM

Kristn
How would you say the Phinney/Volek plan differs from Atkins? I tend to feel more satiated eating higher protein, but am not in ketosis.

mayleesa 07-15-2012 10:35 AM

i'm so curious about this googling as we speak! what are the percentages of fat/carbs/protein needed daily

3Kids4me 07-15-2012 10:44 AM

I'm in!

I lost 60 lbs between May 2010 and July 2011. Then got sloppy and tired of working on weight loss during the fall/winter of 2011. I regained 20 lbs and have been working on getting those lbs off since February 2012. I've lost 10, have another 10 to go to get back to my lowest weight of 188. Then on to my goal of 165 lbs.

I've read both Phinney/Volek books and am a big fan. I've also been following Dr. Attia's blog and love the information there. I recently purchased a blood ketone meter and want to get into serious nutritional ketosis and stay there at least until goal. Then we'll see. I'm not sure I want to have such a tight limit on carbs for life. But I do want to be sugar and grain free. I've eaten Paleo a lot of this past spring and enjoy that too with the added fruit and more liberal veggies. But I also love the mental clarity and appetite suppression of ketosis. And the yummy high fat foods.

I have 4 kids whom I homeschool. I like to run and lift weights, though this summer I've been a slacker on both those things. My good friend who is a personal trainer is going to start working with me again in the fall, so I expect to see some great body recomposition happening.

Thanks for starting this challenge!

Right now my goal is just to get into ketosis. I'm just starting in and I'll test my blood for ketones Wednesday morning to see where I am. I'll probably try and only test once a week since the strips are so dang expensive.

What kinds of things should we post in a challenge thread? Goals? Daily meals? Workouts?

mom2zeke 07-15-2012 11:11 AM

Welcome jeaniem, mayleesa, & 3kids4me!
The goal is to get into nutritional ketosis which is having a blood level of ketones between .5 & 3 mmol/L. To do this you need to keep carbs low and protein moderate. It is an individual thing and they give some ranges in the book. It is also high fat although if you're in weight loss mode you will be accessing body fat as part of your fat percentage.

You can test your blood ketones with a glucose meter that doubles as a ketone meter. The strips are unfortunately very expensive. I got a free meter with 2 ketone strips from the link on Jimmy Moore's blog post about nutritional ketosis. I am not necessarily Jimmy's #1 fan, but I do think that this particular blog post is informative. You can google it:). I have not yet bought replacement strips but I'm going to this week.

jeaniem--I am also more satiated eating high protein, but I wasn't able to lose weight. I believe that the protein was converting to glucose and keeping me from accessing my body fat for fuel.

mayleesa,
I have been keeping my protein between 55 & 90 grams, carbs around 20, and filling in the rest with fat. Usually around 70%fat/20-25%protein/5-10%carbs. But the goal is to access body fat so the actual fat% would be higher when that's taken into account.

3kids4me-I think we should post out our goals to keep each other accountable. Also post meals, workouts, etc. for ideas and inspiration.

Mine are:
Stay in nutritional ketosis between 1200-1500 calories/day
2 kettlebell classes/week
Finally make my goal of 150!

I am also currently doing a 21 day 100 kettlebell swing challenge that my kettlebell coach started.

CurlyGirly 07-15-2012 11:27 AM

I got the free meter and the two strips also. I messed both strips up from not putting enough blood on them. I am planning on getting more strips at some point and would like to try to get into Nutritional Ketosis also!

mom2zeke 07-15-2012 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurlyGirly (Post 15802206)
I got the free meter and the two strips also. I messed both strips up from not putting enough blood on them. I am planning on getting more strips at some point and would like to try to get into Nutritional Ketosis also!

Welcome CurlyGirly!
I have tested twice (about a week apart). The first time I was at 2.4 and when I tested yesterday morning I was at 4. The 4 kind of freaked me out--according to the book that's starvation level:(. I may up my carbs a bit to see how that effects the level.

I am going to order some more strips today to track a little closer. I'll probably only test once per week because of the cost!

clackley 07-15-2012 11:36 AM

I am very interested in this topic. Thanks for starting this thread!!

I have been trying to get my food macros into the right range over the past almost 3 wks. and find it more challenging then first anticipated. My aim is for no more than 20g net carbs, 50g protein and 110g protein all the while, keeping calories around 1000. I started with the Atkins fat fast and tried the 5 mini meals but found it caused me to go over the deep end by the end of the day.

Since then, I have been doing 2 meals but wonder if this is wise as I am getting the bulk of the macros all at one time....I wish breakfast wasn`t such a problem for me....

3Kids4me 07-15-2012 11:42 AM

Are you doing any artificial sweeteners, Kristn?

I'm pretty sure they don't affect ketosis for me, it's more a matter of the cravings or possible negative longterm health effects that concern me. I'm not using any right now.

3Kids4me 07-15-2012 11:49 AM

My goals for this week:

1) Get into ketosis 1.5-2 by Wednesday when I test. Then I head out of town to a conference for 4 days. So...

2) Eat very low carb, high fat as best I can while at this conference. I think I can do fine. I'll take macadamia nuts, salami, and maybe some coconut oil to stir into hotel room coffee or some bouillon broth.

3) Be down to 195 lbs by next Sunday. That's 3 lbs for this week, and doable I think. I'm up a bit with mid-cycle bloat right now.

4) Not counting calories, but 90 g. protein and 30 g. carbs max on days I can weigh, measure and track.

Post-conference, longer term goals--

Start running 20-30 minutes regularly again, at least 3 days a week
Start lifting 2-3 days a week again
Be down to 185 by the time we leave for vacation on August 7th

Run my 4th 5k in October

Be at goal of 165 lbs by November 26th when dh and I go on a cruise for our 15th Anniversary (which is in August, but we're going with friends in November). I hope to be a size 8 at that weight. We'll see how things work out. I'm 5'6.5" and carry a lot of muscle.

mom2zeke 07-15-2012 12:02 PM

Welcome Clackley!

I have been eating exactly 3 meals a day for so long that I don't want to mess with that schedule. I think the 1000 calories is probably why it's so hard. If two meals works for you then I say go with it. I try to stay at 1200 and it's a challenge! Having coffee with coconut cream in the afternoon helps me make it to dinner. I also visualize my fat being used for energy if/when I get a little hungry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Kids4me (Post 15802235)
Are you doing any artificial sweeteners, Kristn?

I'm pretty sure they don't affect ketosis for me, it's more a matter of the cravings or possible negative longterm health effects that concern me. I'm not using any right now.

I've cut out artificial sweeteners in the past with no effect that I can see. I love LC ketchup and bbq sauce with splenda, occasionally drink crystal light, and use DaVinci syrup when I make LC coconut flour pancakes. These things keep me happy so I continue to use them.

mom2zeke 07-15-2012 12:08 PM

I posted this on another thread, but here's a typical 1200 calorie day LC/HF/MP for me:

B: 2 eggs, 2 ounces avocado, 1 tbs low-carb ketchup, 12 ounces coffee with 2 tbs coconut cream

L: Large salad (variety of veggies) with 1 tbs olive oil & lots of vinegar, 3 ounces of protein

Afternoon snack: 12 ounces of coffee with 2 tbs coconut cream

D: Large salad (variety of veggies) with 1 tbs olive oil & lots of vinegar. 3-4 ounces of protein.

If the protein source is lower fat I will add some of my homemade mayo. Sometimes I have other veggies instead of salad, but I'm pretty hooked on salad these days. I like to fill it with lots of different vegetables. I do have to weigh and measure to keep it around 1200 calories. I give myself permission to up the fat if I'm feeling hungry (up to 1500 calories), but I keep the protein and carbs at the same level. I have never done this on low-carb. I am used to eating large servings of protein so this is a big change for me.

I was doing low-carb, no snacks, no nuts, no dairy for quite a while without results. I think I was just eating too much protein and too much in general. This has really jump started things!

3Kids4me 07-15-2012 12:13 PM

Here's my food from today so far.

B: Coffee with 1.5 TB coconut oil

L: Bowl of sausage and kale soup, 2 oz of ribeye with grass-fed butter, cup of coffee with 1 TB cream

S: 2 oz salami with 1 oz cream cheese

Dinner is going to be coconut chicken curry.

I may have an oz of macadamia nuts this evening.

Carli 07-15-2012 12:41 PM

Hello all...very excited to be a part of the group. I also have purchased the ketone meter and a few boxes of sticks. I haven't tested yet, Trying to get my diet in the correct proportions before I test to confirm. Have to save those precious strips.haha

One problem I've had is that the app I use for tracking my food only gives me the grams of protein and grams of fat I've eaten. I suppose I could multiply those by their respective calories and divide that by my total calorie count to get a percentage?

Today for example, so far today I've eaten:
1279 calories
109 grams of fat (981 fat calories)
63.5 grams of protein (254 protein calories)
8 grams of carbs (32 carb calories)

So doing the math, that would mean that so far my diet has been about 77% fat. Is that correct? It seems like there should be an easier way.

clackley 07-15-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 15802225)
I am very interested in this topic. Thanks for starting this thread!!

I have been trying to get my food macros into the right range over the past almost 3 wks. and find it more challenging then first anticipated. My aim is for no more than 20g net carbs, 50g protein and 110g protein all the while, keeping calories around 1000. I started with the Atkins fat fast and tried the 5 mini meals but found it caused me to go over the deep end by the end of the day.

Since then, I have been doing 2 meals but wonder if this is wise as I am getting the bulk of the macros all at one time....I wish breakfast wasn`t such a problem for me....

Not a total of 150g protein:doh::o - meant to say 50g protein and 110g fat. That is more like it!:laugh:

Speck333 07-15-2012 01:04 PM

here I am! :hiya:

ok, I'm caught up reading. I'll be back later with my goals and stats. I do have a camping trip at the end of the week and don't anticipate being on any kind of plan then, so, I guess I will try to work out the details of my plan throughout the week, and hit it hard on Monday.

clackley 07-15-2012 01:06 PM

I personally think that the number of grams is more relevant than a percentage.

mcchimento 07-15-2012 01:15 PM

I am definitely in. I watched a video interviewing Dr. Phinney and I jumped on the plan he suggested 2 1/2 weeks ago. Even though I am 50 years old, menopausal and take medicine for asthma, I have lost almost 14 lbs. in 21 days. :jumpjoy: This is even better results than I had in 2003 where I reached goal in one year (72 lbs.). I do have to lose about 100 lbs this time so I am taking it one day at a time. I only shoot for a one pound loss a week and anything extra is a bonus. I can't test my blood right now, can't afford it but I will continue to eat as though I am.

__________________________________________________ ______________
Cathy

75% calories from fat = 125 total grams of fat
20% calories from protein = 75 total grams of protein
No more than 5% calories from carbohydrates= 19 TOTAL (not net) grams of carbohydrates
Usually average 1200 calories


Week 1/2: Follow Induction (DANDR) - (100 g. of salad lettuce and 50 g. of vegetable)
Week 3: Follow Induction (DANDR) - (100 g. of salad lettuce and 100 g. of vegetable)
Week 4/5: Follow Induction (DANDR) - (150 g. of salad lettuce and 100 g. of vegetable)


July 1: 233.4 lbs. (-8.4)
July 8: 230.8 lbs. (-11.0)
July 15: 228.0 lbs. (- 13.8)

mom2zeke 07-15-2012 01:31 PM

Welcome speck, carli, and mcchimento!

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 15802395)
I personally think that the number of grams is more relevant than a percentage.

I agree! Keeping carb and protein grams in a certain range facilitates ketosis. The fat is for satiety and helping grease the groove into ketosis.

Phinney/Volek recommend .6 to 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass. I believe that I have ~120 pounds of lbm, so I'm shooting for 72 - 120 grams of protein. I've been in the 70-100 range since I've been tracking.

I just ordered more blood ketone strips. I think I will experiment to try and find the best ratio of protein/carbs/fat for me.

mcchimento 07-15-2012 01:35 PM

Menu for today is as follows:

B- 4 slices of bacon
L- salad greens, 2 oz. diced ham, 1 oz. colby jack cheese, 2 T. buttermilk ranch dressing
D-(plan to eat) 4 oz. ground beef (73%), 100 g. broccoli, 2T. butter, 1 oz. american cheese
I try not to snack. If I do, I eat a pickle which helps with my nightly leg cramps.

1140 calories; 95 g fat (75%); 17 total g carb (6%); 53 g protein (19%)

__________________________________________________ ________________________
Cathy

75% calories from fat = 125 total grams of fat
20% calories from protein = 75 total grams of protein
No more than 5% calories from carbohydrates= 19 total grams of carbohydrates (average: 1200 - 1500 calories)


Week 1/2: Follow Induction (DANDR) - (100 g. of salad lettuce and 50 g. of vegetable)
Week 3: Follow Induction (DANDR) - (100 g. of salad lettuce and 100 g. of vegetable)
Week 4/5: Follow Induction (DANDR) - (150 g. of salad lettuce and 100 g. of vegetable)


July 1: 233.4 lbs. (-8.4)
July 8: 230.8 lbs. (-11.0)
July 15: 228.0 lbs. (- 13.8)

drjlocarb 07-15-2012 04:29 PM

I 'm here too.

Ordered meter and stirps yesterday.

helgarush 07-15-2012 04:34 PM

Hi-You can go to Walmart and buy cheap ketone testing strips in the Diabetic section. They about 7-8 dollars for around 200 strips or so and you use them like you would a pregnancy test. :) Hold'em in your urine stream.

mom2zeke 07-15-2012 04:40 PM

Welcome drjlocarb & helgarush!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcchimento (Post 15802416)
I can't test my blood right now, can't afford it but I will continue to eat as though I am.

Have you sent away for the free kit? It contains 2 blood ketone strips so you can at least get a sense of where your blood ketones are at without any cost.

helgarush-we're doing the blood ketone testing referred to in The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. Unfortunately the strips aren't cheap like the urine strips.

3Kids4me 07-15-2012 06:08 PM

At the end of Day 2 of very low carbs and high fat, I can tell ketosis is getting started. Metal taste in mouth and stinky pee. Just have to get those ketones built up enough to have my brain clear up a little more.

Are you all supplementing with sodium and magnesium?

hippyatheart 07-15-2012 07:18 PM

Thank you for this information. I just ordered my free meter and strips! I have been using ketostrips for a while now and I am always in dark purple but yet not losing. Hoping this gives me insight!

jeaniem 07-16-2012 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom2zeke (Post 15802178)

jeaniem--I am also more satiated eating high protein, but I wasn't able to lose weight. I believe that the protein was converting to glucose and keeping me from accessing my body fat for fuel.



.

Thanks. I'll try cutting protein a bit and upping the fat. Does the book suggest cutting calories?
I suppose I could buy it, but aren't these some of the same authors of the NANY book? I already have that book.

svenskamae 07-16-2012 08:36 AM

I'd like to join, too. I have to do a bit more reading and send away for the testing kit and expensive testing strips.

I'm feeling frustrated because my measurements haven't changed (I don't use a scale) for over 4 weeks, despite the fact that I've stayed on plan, weigh and measure and track everything, eat between 1200 and 1400 calories/day, and generally exercise (walking, elliptical) 3 hours a day (often using up more calories exercising than I took in). I know that people who are keeping calories and carbs low and yet aren't losing get conflicting advise--eat more, eat less, eat healthier, stop stressing, etc.--and I'd like some sort of "objective" measure of what's happening in my body to guide what I eat, for a while.

Thanks for starting this challenge, mom2zeke, and for posting here, everyone. My goal is to start losing measurably--pounds, inches, dress size, whatever--again over the next 1-2 months. It's frustrating to be so disciplined and yet have nothing visible to show for it. I'll also be cutting back on my intense cardio and doing toning exercises--callenetics and T Tapp--instead, together with the 5 miles of walking I normally do per day just to get to work and back and run basic errands. I think that all the cardio exercise that I was doing, coupled with keeping my calories low and stress at work, may be keeping my cortisol levels too high for me to lose.

hippyatheart 07-16-2012 08:52 AM

I forgot to post my goals for the month!

My goals:
Get firmly in the 170's
Lose one dress size
Buy a new swimsuit one size smaller
Be comfortable in said swimsuit for schlitterbahn in August!

mom2zeke 07-16-2012 11:51 AM

Welcome hippyatheart and svenskamae!

3Kids4me 07-16-2012 12:09 PM

Breakfast was just coffee with some HWC and coconut oil, about 1 TB of each.

Lunch was two HB eggs with 1 TB grass-fed butter.

I'm about to have some leftover chicken curry.

I'm definitely in ketosis, the metal mouth is strong. Just have to keep building up the ketones in the blood now. I should drink a cup of broth this afternoon, I do get pretty fuzzy headed without extra sodium.


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