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Old 09-13-2012, 09:33 AM   #1531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g3rmanchik View Post
I am confused!!! (no surprise there) How does one calculate the calories on which they should be losing???? How did you do it Kristn??? I suppose you figured your total calories and then adjusted downward???? But downward to what??? Sorry too many questions
The Performance book says to figure out your protein requirement, keep carbs low (below 50, but that's too high for me), and eat fat to satiety. With this formula fat should fall in the 65%-85% range. If you do this, get into NK, and are not losing then they suggest lowering fat until you are losing. There is no need to get a certain high percentage of fat for this to work. Body fat utilized for energy is counted in your fat percentage.

In my experience I wouldn't eat more than I was hungry for just to eat a certain percentage of fat. That's not what the book says to do and there's no advantage to eating a super high percentage of fat if you're already in ketosis and utilizing body fat stores. In fact, it may work against you.

The calories are a natural expression of the food you are eating. If you limit your protein and carbs and fill in with fat you will find yourself in a certain range of calories. If you're not losing and you lower your fat your calories will naturally fall.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:43 AM   #1532
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
The Performance book says to figure out your protein requirement, keep carbs low (below 50, but that's too high for me), and eat fat to satiety. With this formula fat should fall in the 65%-85% range. If you do this, get into NK, and are not losing then they suggest lowering fat until you are losing. There is no need to get a certain high percentage of fat for this to work. Body fat utilized for energy is counted in your fat percentage.

In my experience I wouldn't eat more than I was hungry for just to eat a certain percentage of fat. That's not what the book says to do and there's no advantage to eating a super high percentage of fat if you're already in ketosis and utilizing body fat stores. In fact, it may work against you.

The calories are a natural expression of the food you are eating. If you limit your protein and carbs and fill in with fat you will find yourself in a certain range of calories. If you're not losing and you lower your fat your calories will naturally fall.

I find that 1500-1600 is about perfect for me at my current weight. And it gives me room to drop a bit when I'm closer to goal. I also run and do resistance work (weights or bodyweight) 3-4 times a week. My BMR is 1600 based on most calculators as well and that's about 500 below my maintenance with my lifestyle activity factor. So I aim for 1-2 lbs a week and am happy with that amount of food. But I'll be happy to maintain closer to 2000 if I can swing it. ;-)

--Jamie

(I think staying above minimum protein and above 1200 calories is still the best guideline for not stressing the body too much or risking losing LBM. And at least minimal essential fats of course, but that's easier with this WOE.)
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:49 AM   #1533
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Originally Posted by 3Kids4me View Post
(I think staying above minimum protein and above 1200 calories is still the best guideline for not stressing the body too much or risking losing LBM. And at least minimal essential fats of course, but that's easier with this WOE.)
In his interview Dr. Phinney said that they had never measured anyone with a resting metabolism below 1200 calories/day and not to go below that. If you go too low you can lower your metabolism and actually stop your weight loss and set yourself up for trouble down the line.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:29 AM   #1534
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Okay kids, we've been moved to "Other Plans"!

Also, all the links in the link in my signature (now that's mouthful) should be good. I did lose the link to Rebecca's fat bombs though.

Rebecca--would it be okay to post the recipe here or on a thread in the recipe room?

In the meantime, if you're looking for the Recipe you can google: My Low Carb Road to Better Health Fat Bombs.

If anyone wants to start a recipe thread for this plan in the recipe room we can request that it be made a sticky. I am not much of a recipe person, but I know that others on this thread probably have some good ones.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #1535
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ty those posts really help.....I think if anything I am too high on fat...I def have a fat tooth
I will put in my foods and see how I do....I should get my book today Yay excited!!!
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:40 AM   #1536
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Last night I was a little dizzy and today I feel a little sick almost like carb flu..but I've been doing LC for 2 mo now.but just been doing LC,hf,mp for 5 days now!any advice

I've been eating around 1400 cal....110-130grams fat protein 45-65 carbs around 10-15
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:47 AM   #1537
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Last night I was a little dizzy and today I feel a little sick almost like carb flu..but I've been doing LC for 2 mo now.but just been doing LC,hf,mp for 5 days now!any advice

I've been eating around 1400 cal....110-130grams fat protein 45-65 carbs around 10-15
Salt (in broth), magnesium, and potassium. Your electrolytes may be off.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:54 AM   #1538
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Okay kids, we've been moved to "Other Plans"!

Also, all the links in the link in my signature (now that's mouthful) should be good. I did lose the link to Rebecca's fat bombs though.

Rebecca--would it be okay to post the recipe here or on a thread in the recipe room?

In the meantime, if you're looking for the Recipe you can google: My Low Carb Road to Better Health Fat Bombs.

If anyone wants to start a recipe thread for this plan in the recipe room we can request that it be made a sticky. I am not much of a recipe person, but I know that others on this thread probably have some good ones.
Thanks for all your hard work and ongoing support, Kristn!
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:01 AM   #1539
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Thanks for all your hard work and ongoing support, Kristn!
DITTO!
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:01 AM   #1540
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DITTO #2
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:05 AM   #1541
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Thank you guys. You're so sweet. This thread has been such a great support for me and it's fantastic to see others having success.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:06 AM   #1542
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Here's what I consumed yesterday.
Protein: 130.8 g (23%) -- [target range 0.6*144=86 to 1.0*144=144]
Carbs: 29.9 g (4%) (incl 10.9 g fiber) -- [target < 50]
Fat: 195.9 g (73%)
Calories: 2,423 (Est. burn rate 2,728)

This morning:
Weight: 178.8 (up 0.8) (-4.2 since starting NK Aug 30)
BMI: 22.96 -- [target 21.83]
Ketones (blood): 0.5
Blood Glucose (fasting): 96

Most of my measurements moved in the wrong direction today. Perhaps my protein intake was too close to the top end of my range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
The other formula is brought up real early on in this thread. It was created by Dr. Jan Kwasniewski.

Take your height in cm - 100. That is your base protein requirement in grams. So 180cm height is 80g protein.

Then your range is +/-10%

Fat and Carbs are based off of protein. P*2.5 = F. P*.05 = C.
Based on my 188 cm height, Dr. Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet recommends 88 g of protein, which is close to my low end estimate from Volek and Phinney of 0.6 * LBM = 86g. (BTW, I think the decimal point slipped in the carb formula above. I think it's C=0.5* P.)

By my blood measurements, I've been nicely in ketosis with protein around 110 grams, so I'm going to try to keep it under that for a while. (As another data point, as I recall, Dr. Attia at Eating Academy has to be under 125 g of protein to stay in ketosis.)

Last edited by pantograph; 09-13-2012 at 11:07 AM..
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:54 AM   #1543
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Woohoo! The Nutritional Keytosis FAQ is now posted!

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...faq-links.html

And I think all of the links were approved.

I've asked people to keep using this thread here for questions and support. But when we find a great answer, we can post those to the FAQ page. So hopefully the FAQ becomes a summary roster of all the answers to the common questions we've heard.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:54 AM   #1544
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Interesting-my usual pattern of strict lowcarbing has been, for years, to lose 10 lbs quickly and then stalling awhile, then getting into a groove of losing a pound every week or so.
This time, having cut my protein down some, and the fat up some, I lost 4 lbs right away, been 2 weeks and haven't lost any more. But I lost a lot of inches and I feel better. But it surely is different.
Didn't get the blood testing stuff, but my ketostix are strongly positive, this also is different. Have no plans to change anything, but it really is different.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:57 AM   #1545
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Woohoo! The Nutritional Keytosis FAQ is now posted!

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...faq-links.html

And I think all of the links were approved.

I've asked people to keep using this thread here for questions and support. But when we find a great answer, we can post those to the FAQ page. So hopefully the FAQ becomes a summary roster of all the answers to the common questions we've heard.



Excellent work, Mike!
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:02 PM   #1546
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Woohoo! The Nutritional Keytosis FAQ is now posted!

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...faq-links.html

And I think all of the links were approved.

I've asked people to keep using this thread here for questions and support. But when we find a great answer, we can post those to the FAQ page. So hopefully the FAQ becomes a summary roster of all the answers to the common questions we've heard.
Good job - I know that will help people.
Is it too late to change the spelling from "keytosis" to "ketosis"?
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:20 PM   #1547
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Originally Posted by pantograph View Post
Here's what I consumed yesterday.
Protein: 130.8 g (23%) -- [target range 0.6*144=86 to 1.0*144=144]
Carbs: 29.9 g (4%) (incl 10.9 g fiber) -- [target < 50]
Fat: 195.9 g (73%)
Calories: 2,423 (Est. burn rate 2,728)

This morning:
Weight: 178.8 (up 0.8) (-4.2 since starting NK Aug 30)
BMI: 22.96 -- [target 21.83]
Ketones (blood): 0.5
Blood Glucose (fasting): 96

Most of my measurements moved in the wrong direction today. Perhaps my protein intake was too close to the top end of my range.



Based on my 188 cm height, Dr. Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet recommends 88 g of protein, which is close to my low end estimate from Volek and Phinney of 0.6 * LBM = 86g. (BTW, I think the decimal point slipped in the carb formula above. I think it's C=0.5* P.)

By my blood measurements, I've been nicely in ketosis with protein around 110 grams, so I'm going to try to keep it under that for a while. (As another data point, as I recall, Dr. Attia at Eating Academy has to be under 125 g of protein to stay in ketosis.)
What struck me was how small the overlap is. The high end for you is much, much higher than the high end proposed by Kwasniewski. And if you go Low one to High the other it is almost double.

Yeah, dang, I did write that .5 wrong and now I cannot edit the original post because too much time has passed. Thanks for pointing it out because I might have copy pasted it to answer the same question later on.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:22 PM   #1548
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Mom,,,do you think I just getting into real ketoeous ?i eat lots of saltAnd take mag.what do I do for potassium ? Thanks so much
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:30 PM   #1549
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Mom,,,do you think I just getting into real ketoeous ?i eat lots of saltAnd take mag.what do I do for potassium ? Thanks so much
Possibly?? I love salt and salt my food generously, but I have to put 1/2 tsp in my broth every day. I take potassium supplements, but avocados also have a lot of potassium.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #1550
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Excellent work, Mike!
Mike....well done!!!! Thank you so much. It will be very helpful to send that link to the newbies to answer their questions!
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:44 PM   #1551
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DITTO #2
Ditto #3!!!! Thanks Kristn!!!
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:47 PM   #1552
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Thanks mom.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:50 PM   #1553
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ty for posting ur stuff....how often do you exercise and what do you do...I just joined a gym and will start next week (after TOM) I plan on doing a stretch class and a pilates and hard core class....as little as cardio as possible cause I gain weight doing cardio....my adrenals are shoot and any extra stress good or bad makes me gain weight.....
I will start to really be diligent on putting my food into ******....grrrrrr I had to do that for years when I was sick and I really really really dislike it...ugh...
but I need to do it to see where I am at. Right??? Right!!!!!
I used to do BFL and did weights 3 days a week, HIIT 2 times and a really hard Pilates class 2 times a week. I also ate nonfat and very low calories. I was 20# lighter and didn't feel great.

Now I'm happy, feel healthy and no longer go to the gym. I walk probably 6 mornings a week with the neighbors and their dogs....it's about 2.5-3 miles up and down hills. We do NOT speed walk or go for cardio. It's just a nice chatty walk. That has been the "key" for me.

I used to have horrible adrenal issues and thyroid was "wrong". Got that all squared away over a couple years and am very stable now. Once I get really "solid" into ketosis, I will experiment with the weights once again, but leaving out HIIT and Pilates has enabled me to not have to visit the chiropractor for 13 months now! At $45/month, that is something I'm very happy about. I feel so much better doing the walks. But I want to "tone" the upper body, so will go back to the weights probably in October.

I also disliked ******....Kristn convinced me that it's a great tool, and now I use it and don't dislike it any more...sort of like the ketone meter. I was so scared to "prick" my finger that first day...today I couldn't get enough blood and ended up doing the price THREE times before I got it good! ha ha And it's not a big deal. So, do your ****** Christina!!!!!
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:50 PM   #1554
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Kristn....thanks for the info on the after workout meal and where you got the information. Makes perfect sense!
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:42 PM   #1555
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I used to do BFL and did weights 3 days a week, HIIT 2 times and a really hard Pilates class 2 times a week. I also ate nonfat and very low calories. I was 20# lighter and didn't feel great.

Now I'm happy, feel healthy and no longer go to the gym. I walk probably 6 mornings a week with the neighbors and their dogs....it's about 2.5-3 miles up and down hills. We do NOT speed walk or go for cardio. It's just a nice chatty walk. That has been the "key" for me.

I used to have horrible adrenal issues and thyroid was "wrong". Got that all squared away over a couple years and am very stable now. Once I get really "solid" into ketosis, I will experiment with the weights once again, but leaving out HIIT and Pilates has enabled me to not have to visit the chiropractor for 13 months now! At $45/month, that is something I'm very happy about. I feel so much better doing the walks. But I want to "tone" the upper body, so will go back to the weights probably in October.

I also disliked ******....Kristn convinced me that it's a great tool, and now I use it and don't dislike it any more...sort of like the ketone meter. I was so scared to "prick" my finger that first day...today I couldn't get enough blood and ended up doing the price THREE times before I got it good! ha ha And it's not a big deal. So, do your ****** Christina!!!!!
Ja, ja I did it changed all the numbers to the correct goal an put in what I stuffed into my face..... TY
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:13 PM   #1556
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I e-mailed the moderators to ask about moving the Nutritional Ketosis material to the "Weight Loss Plans" area as a recognized plan, so that we would be able to start multiple topical threads (say, challenges, high fat recipes, questions about using a testing meter, FAQ, example menus, success stories, etc.) under the NK heading, instead of just adding to this voluminous single thread, which now goes on for over 50 pages and over 1500 posts. They did not respond to my message, but did move this thread into the "weight loss plans" area. However, we are in the "other plans" which just gives us this one mega-thread to continue to add posts to, which is no improvement, so far as I can see. I will email the moderators again to clarify my request, but it might help if others would e-mail them also with similar requests. What I was hoping for was something equivalent to the JUDDD or Protein Power setup, which allow for multiple threads and stickies, rather than one huge thread that becomes unmanageably long, regardless of where it sits on this board.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:19 PM   #1557
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It can be a challenge to find recipes that are high in fat but only moderate to low in protein, especially if you don't use artificial sweeteners; things like lowcarb cheesecakes and most fat bombs and shakes are not workable for those of us avoiding all sorts of sweeteners. I would like to start an NK-friendly high-fat recipe thread here, but I can't do so under the NK rubric in this "other plans" part of the board. I'll start a thread on the "recipes help and suggestions" part of the board, and I encourage others to post there, too.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:21 PM   #1558
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I also disliked ******
heh there's plenty to keep disliking it about. I tried to add almond milk today. Nope. None on the list. Goat's milk? Yup.

I have a couple of tips about this situation for new users with ******.

#1 - If you can't find something on the list, google '****** itemName list' to see if you can discover the name it is listed under if it is on the list.

#2 - If you have to add a food, the easiest way to do it is pick something similar and use the 'customize' button to create your item.

#2a - Be sure that the item you are customizing has the type of measurement you want to use. Like, grams or ounces or cups. Some items won't have ounces for example.

#2b - Be descriptive with the new item name and include your serving size. Like if you are doing an ounce of the item then put '1oz' in the title so you will always know what a 'serving' is because the new custom food will say 'serving' not oz or cup or whatever you selected when you created it.

=)

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Iended up doing the price THREE times before I got it good! ha ha And it's not a big deal.
me ------->
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:24 PM   #1559
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I e-mailed the moderators to ask about moving the Nutritional Ketosis material to the "Weight Loss Plans" area as a recognized plan, so that we would be able to start multiple topical threads (say, challenges, high fat recipes, questions about using a testing meter, FAQ, example menus, success stories, etc.) under the NK heading, instead of just adding to this voluminous single thread, which now goes on for over 50 pages and over 1500 posts. They did not respond to my message, but did move this thread into the "weight loss plans" area. However, we are in the "other plans" which just gives us this one mega-thread to continue to add posts to, which is no improvement, so far as I can see. I will email the moderators again to clarify my request, but it might help if others would e-mail them also with similar requests. What I was hoping for was something equivalent to the JUDDD or Protein Power setup, which allow for multiple threads and stickies, rather than one huge thread that becomes unmanageably long, regardless of where it sits on this board.
Great idea svenskamae! I hope Dottie hooks us up
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:36 PM   #1560
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It can be a challenge to find recipes that are high in fat but only moderate to low in protein, especially if you don't use artificial sweeteners; things like lowcarb cheesecakes and most fat bombs and shakes are not workable for those of us avoiding all sorts of sweeteners. I would like to start an NK-friendly high-fat recipe thread here, but I can't do so under the NK rubric in this "other plans" part of the board. I'll start a thread on the "recipes help and suggestions" part of the board, and I encourage others to post there, too.
Dottie told me that if we start a NK recipe thread in the recipe room we can ask for it to be a sticky.

Thanks for working on getting us a place of our own.
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