Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?

[zay]

Anyone?

What are the differences, if any, between Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) and
Atkins Induction?

[portcop01]

I think there not a lot of different !if you read the book the 72 one ..he always says this is not a low fat diet.i think the only thing is maybe he don't tell you to watch your prot..but if you really and truly follow it I think you will get into deep keto.and your appet.will go away just like when you stick to LC,hf mp.does.the key to both is stick to the plan...

[betty301]

I think the water gain from TOM is going on. Up a lb..first time that's happened since starting..your going the wrong way!!!

I know I know. Hopefully if I drink extra water that would help the water gain.

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!!

Yesterday my (maintenance) intake was:
Protein: 82.9 (18%)
Carbs: 25.7 (4%)
Fat: 155.9 (77%)
Alcohol: 0 (0%)
Calories: 1816
This morning:
Weight: 150.6 (no change)
Ketones: 1.0
Blood Glucose: 89

I am continuing my nutrient timing experiment and I ate my largest meal right after kettlebell class last night. Interestingly BG is up, ketones slightly down (but I'm still in ketosis).

Tonight I'm going out to dinner with girlfriends so I won't be able to track as closely. My food scale also broke yesterday so I've ordered a new one and I'm using my analog scale for now.

How is everyone else doing??

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by juliekaboolie

Today was strange! I started out weak, headaches and some heart palpable only to have those symptoms go away after eating?? What the heck!

Julie, wondering if your electrolytes are off? Sodium, potassium, or magnesium...

Thanks all for the warm birthday wishes. Had a great day, ready to lose the fluff I picked up yesterday and the past two weeks. I did not maintain well...kept having brief but disastrous carb forays.

Anyways, kitchen's "cleaned" up so temptations are gone and I'm ready to focus.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by zay

Anyone?

What are the differences, if any, between Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) and
Atkins Induction?

Atkins allows unlimited protein, NK has you find your range based on your goals and lean body mass. Also, with NK you are testing so that you can adjust your protein and carbs to ensure that you are in ketosis.

Atkins was great for me, I lost 90 pounds without having to worry about protein. But I got stuck and nothing I tried worked until I found NK.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by betty301

I think the water gain from TOM is going on. Up a lb..first time that's happened since starting..your going the wrong way!!!

I know I know. Hopefully if I drink extra water that would help the water gain.

I usually try to stay off the scale right before and during TOM--it's too crazy making.

[Flavia]

Good Morning all

[mom2zeke]

portcop01-congrats on your loss!!

paula--I'm glad you had a good birthday. Good luck with your clean start!!

Julie--I second Paula. Make sure you're getting magnesium, potassium, salt, etc...

Doggygirl--I only feel the appetite suppression occasionally. I could easily eat 2500 calories a day without a problem. What I feel is satisfied but not full and could easily keep on eating if I don't think about it.

[ChristineCQ]

Subbing

[juliekaboolie]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Julie, wondering if your electrolytes are off? Sodium, potassium, or magnesium....

Good morning everyone!! The palpitations are not comfortable. I believe my electrolytes are off. Unfortunately, I already take a prescription for potassium and magnesium. I was hospitalized back in May for atrial fibrillation and it was found that I have a genetic disorder called Long QT syndrome which is a potassium channel defect....which means never letting my electrolytes (particularly potassium) get too low. I've been supplementing my diet with whole avocados which are high in potassium and drinking lots of water and chicken broth, but it is not abating and is starting to worry me. So, this is my sad farewell. It's back to regular Paleo I go. Maybe I will do Paleo and calorie counting???? Ugh. One of the theories I have is that this diet, because of the high fat content, is energizing and causing a surge in adrenaline which I take a beta blocker to prevent because of the LQTS. LQTS can cause sudden cardiac arrest so I have to be extremely careful about my body's balance. If my theory is correct and the fat is causing these 'energy' surges, then that is why I'm having palpitations. Hm. This is such a conundrum because I need to lose weight. Anyway, I will figure it out. You guys are an awesome group, and I am sad to leave so quickly after only one week. I KNOW this is a great diet plan...just not for me, I guess. Take care!

Julie

[Buffy45]

Julie, health first, always! Take good care of yourself.

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Thanks for this. I have been searching for this kind of info. Thanks again.

Yes DG, very interesting read.

[zay]

Julie, makes sense to me! Weight loss is nothing if you are not here.

If you are taking a supplement for potassium and then taking in high potassium foods...don't you think this may cause an imbalance? My thought is that you should be monitored closely if you take on an extreme diet plan such as this. I'm glad you are ok and listening to your body. Take care! ((hugs))

[Buffy45]

Rough night last night, sleeping that is. Went to sleep easily at 11:30 or so, then woke a little after 2 and was not able to get comfortable. My arm and shoulder were hurting where I have strained it and 2 tylenol didn't seem to help. Finally got up and sat in the recliner watching tv where I dozed off about 2 hours later.

Day 9 ahead, ready to plan my menu and full steam ahead!

[juliekaboolie]

Originally Posted by zay

Julie, makes sense to me! Weight loss is nothing if you are not here.

If you are taking a supplement for potassium and then taking in high potassium foods...don't you think this may cause an imbalance? My thought is that you should be monitored closely if you take on an extreme diet plan such as this. I'm glad you are ok and listening to your body. Take care! ((hugs))

Yes, you are right. My cardiologist is aware of me following Paleo and doing low carb, but this new tweak he does not know about, nor would I have predicted this!! I figured it would be a variation on a theme. Guess not.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by amlyjo

I'm pleased with this plan. I really want to up my Co oil intake but ...But that's still only one T. Will have to find a way to get another one in there. Maybe some macaroons mentioned. I'd sure love some kind of chocolate!

You could have your tasty drink twice a day instead of just as an evening snack? Maybe with lunch at work heated up in the microwave?

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Thanks for this. I have been searching for this kind of info. Thanks again.

Yes DG, very interesting read.

[betty301]

Originally Posted by juliekaboolie

Good morning everyone!! The palpitations are not comfortable. I believe my electrolytes are off. Unfortunately, I already take a prescription for potassium and magnesium. I was hospitalized back in May for atrial fibrillation and it was found that I have a genetic disorder called Long QT syndrome which is a potassium channel defect....which means never letting my electrolytes (particularly potassium) get too low. I've been supplementing my diet with whole avocados which are high in potassium and drinking lots of water and chicken broth, but it is not abating and is starting to worry me. So, this is my sad farewell. It's back to regular Paleo I go. Maybe I will do Paleo and calorie counting???? Ugh. One of the theories I have is that this diet, because of the high fat content, is energizing and causing a surge in adrenaline which I take a beta blocker to prevent because of the LQTS. LQTS can cause sudden cardiac arrest so I have to be extremely careful about my body's balance. If my theory is correct and the fat is causing these 'energy' surges, then that is why I'm having palpitations. Hm. This is such a conundrum because I need to lose weight. Anyway, I will figure it out. You guys are an awesome group, and I am sad to leave so quickly after only one week. I KNOW this is a great diet plan...just not for me, I guess. Take care!

Julie

Are you taking cytomel? Have you ever had your Ferritin levels checked??

Sometimes if you take too much T3 this will cause heart palps..or if your IRON is low. Something tells me it's not the lack of carbs. What if you raise the carbs to the level of 50 net that the book suggest and see if that helps? If only for a couple days.

[juliekaboolie]

Cytomel landed me in the hospital in may because the dr started me at 12.5mcg!! And I had low ferritin. Since then, I've had an iron infusion and the beta blockers stopped the palpitations completely until this week I started eating this way. My T3 is on the low end of normal, and my endo (good dr) thinks maybe, based on a new study, that my T3 will normalize once my ferritin does. Btw, I had an iron infusion in July and it helped my energy a LOT!! She is being very careful with me due o what has happened and taking things slowly.

Edited to add: I'm only on Levothyroxine right now. She said she may do compounding for me to ease me in slowly...lower than the 5mcg starting point with Cytomel.

[Buffy45]

I hope it's ok to put our challenge in my signature and invite people to come take a look, if I see someone mention they are doing LC/MP/HF?

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

I hope it's ok to put our challenge in my signature and invite people to come take a look, if I see someone mention they are doing LC/MP/HF?

Heck yeah it is okay =)

[shelley]

Originally Posted by juliekaboolie

Cytomel landed me in the hospital in may because the dr started me at 12.5mcg!! And I had low ferritin. Since then, I've had an iron infusion and the beta blockers stopped the palpitations completely until this week I started eating this way. My T3 is on the low end of normal, and my endo (good dr) thinks maybe, based on a new study, that my T3 will normalize once my ferritin does. Btw, I had an iron infusion in July and it helped my energy a LOT!! She is being very careful with me due o what has happened and taking things slowly.

Edited to add: I'm only on Levothyroxine right now. She said she may do compounding for me to ease me in slowly...lower than the 5mcg starting point with Cytomel.

Julie...I'm so glad that you are under such a good watchful eye as your doc. I truly believe in *health* first, and the rest has to fall in place. Took me 2 years to get my adrenals, thyroid, hormones and D3 levels to normal. It was a long haul, but well worth the trouble and excruciating attention to detail it takes...it's never a quick fix...either is weightloss.

I wish you well in your journey and hope to see you back, or at least have you visit to tell us how you are doing.

I'm also low on potassium and discovered "Performance Zero" sports drinks (< 1 carb for 20 oz) and I drink one every morning (I do that instead of broth). Seems to be working for me.

At any rate...keep us posted on how you are doing. I'm so very proud of you for not just "trying" to do what we all think is a good way to lose weight, but that you are putting your health first. Good for you!!!! :-)

[shelley]

OK.....here are my morning readings....Glucose went up again....2 days ago was 94, yesterday was 100 and today is 104. What is going on?

Ketones on the other hand have done the same..gone up...2 days ago (first use of the meter) they were .7, yesterday .8 and this morning .9.

So...why is my glucose going up? The only changes have been to have a decaf chai tea instead of coffee in the AM and eating one fat bomb/day. I don't eat fruit. I don't touch ANY grains or starches.

Fat bomb before 3 mile walk
Breakfast is always bacon/eggs/coffee or chai(decaf) with HWC and 1 TBSP of MCT oil
Lunch is generally a meat with fat (like chicken salad)...yesterday was 2 romaine leaves with egg salad inside. Nothing else
Dinner was chicken marsala with cream adn 1/2 cup green beans and butter.

So, why is the glucose reading climbing. Take it every morning at 7:45 to 8 AM before eating breakfast or walking. Hmmmm..

I'm off to take a machine embroidery class so will catch up with everyone tomorrow morning. Have a great day!

Love the posts on paleo/atkins/NK in comparisons. Great job with reporting everyone!!!

[Flavia]

Shelley, 2 thoughts....
chicken is being grain fed now-a-days and its basically not good. If u noticed the sweet taste to it....
Also green beans totally stall me and I can't eat them on this eating plan (maybe ur the same)
Hope u have fun in class

[betty301]

hmm, not sure Shelley.

I guess give it a few more days to see if it comes back down? Maybe it has something to do with your ketones going UP?

[amlyjo]

Originally Posted by svenskamae

I've read a fair amount of the Paleo literature and paleo cookbooks. My sense is that there is a different rationale for paleo than for low carb--i.e., eating foods that humans ate through most of their evolutionary time on earth versus limiting insulin resistence. I don't see a reason why one couldn't do a combination of Paleo and Atkins; I'm doing a combination of Primal (paleo plus milk products) and Atkins.

Things that you might eat on paleo and not on Atkins induction: Honey, root vegetables (e.g., sweet potatoes), fruit
Things you might eat on Atkins and not paleo: Dairy products, artificial sweeteners, processed foods that don't contain grains or regular sweeteners

Atkins per se doesn't specify how much fat versus protein you eat. Achieving nutritional ketosis does require making a very high percentage of your diet be fats, but that doesn't have to be saturated fats (though it is easier). Paleo would encourage eating grassfed rather than grainfed animals, but there's saturated fat in a grainfed beefsteak, for example, too.

I think a fair number of people doing this nutritional ketosis approach are doing it because they could NOT lose additional weight, despite long-term compliance with an Atkins approach, unless they cut back on protein and increased fats (and also wouldn't lose on a paleo diet with a lower proportion of fat and higher amount of protein). My personal view is that my life, meal planning, and cooking would be a lot easier if I could just follow the rules for paleo or primal and forget about trying to make my protein low enough and my fats high enough to be in nutritional ketosis. But I also would lose weight at a glacial rate, or not at all, if I did that, and I have a lot of weight to lose. That may not be true for you, which would give you lots more options.

I'm not sure what is considered high for sat fat anyways since the research is changing all the time and SO many studies are revealing that low fat diets have been our demise. I don't worry about it. I get a large percentage of my fat grams daily from MCT and Co Oil, avocados, and olive oils. I think those are healthy.

I personally think Paleo is just the new trendy thing. Who would argue that sweet potatoes and berries and nuts and lots of veggies are not healthy? Of course they are!!! But there is a big difference between eating that way for purely health reasons, and chosing an eating plan for weight loss. I am here for weight loss and will do something like Paleo for maintenance. It'll be nice to someday look forward to some fruits again, just not right now.

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Are any of you following this WOE having things like the One Minute Muffin? Also, what about Greek yogurt, in small reasonable quantities of course? I read where a lady had thinned the Greek yougurt with HWC, almost cup to cup and used that in this type of diet.

Your thoughts are welcome on this, I am doing so good I don't want to screw up over something that isn't that important to me.

Buffy, I love OMMs. I make mine with 1/4c flax meal, 1/2tsp baking powder, 1 egg and 3tsp HWC. Then I just eat half. They are very filling. I love them topped with about 2 tbsp of cream cheese. I do not think they stall me and my system likes the fiber.

Originally Posted by juliekaboolie

Good morning everyone!! The palpitations are not comfortable. I believe my electrolytes are off. Unfortunately, I already take a prescription for potassium and magnesium. I was hospitalized back in May for atrial fibrillation and it was found that I have a genetic disorder called Long QT syndrome which is a potassium channel defect....which means never letting my electrolytes (particularly potassium) get too low. I've been supplementing my diet with whole avocados which are high in potassium and drinking lots of water and chicken broth, but it is not abating and is starting to worry me. So, this is my sad farewell. It's back to regular Paleo I go. Maybe I will do Paleo and calorie counting???? Ugh. One of the theories I have is that this diet, because of the high fat content, is energizing and causing a surge in adrenaline which I take a beta blocker to prevent because of the LQTS. LQTS can cause sudden cardiac arrest so I have to be extremely careful about my body's balance. If my theory is correct and the fat is causing these 'energy' surges, then that is why I'm having palpitations. Hm. This is such a conundrum because I need to lose weight. Anyway, I will figure it out. You guys are an awesome group, and I am sad to leave so quickly after only one week. I KNOW this is a great diet plan...just not for me, I guess. Take care!

Julie

Julie, You will be missed. Best wishes to you on your journey to health!!



I have no change in weight this am, and I am fine with that. Having some "intestinal upset" if you catch my drift. That is always so hard for me to get balanced! Lots of fiber supplements and 1200mg of magnesium a day, in addition to 150oz of water and I am always too far in one direction or another.

Need to go plan my day. So far I've had 3 slices of bacon with 2 tbsp of spicy cream cheese and my coffee w/HWC and MCT oil. Yummy and filling.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by amlyjo

and 1200mg of magnesium a day,

May I ask what your magnesium supplement is?

Originally Posted by amlyjo

2 tbsp of spicy cream cheese

Yowsir! How do you make this?!

[lizzybme]

bump...reading and dont want to lose!

[pantograph]

Julie (and others): It's really important to make sure you're getting adequate potassium. I was a little low on Paleo, but on NK it's really tough, since you can't eat a lot of veggies or fruit to augment the potassium in meats. I've been putting Nu-Salt in my water bottle and on eggs and avocado, along with 6 of the 99 mg tablets daily. Still need more, I think.

Shelley: I'm not sure what's going on with your glucose. Mine's been up a little over the last couple of days, also, but is slowly going back down now. I hope yours improves, too.

Here's what I consumed yesterday.
Protein: 108.9 g (22%) -- [target range 0.6*144=86 to 1.0*144=144]
Carbs: 26 g (4%) (incl 8.9 g fiber) -- [target < 50]
Fat: 172.4 g (74%)
Calories: 2,128 (Est. burn rate 2,995)

This morning:
Weight: 177.6 (down 1.2) (-5.4 since starting NK Aug 30)
BMI: 22.80 -- [target 21.83]
Ketones (blood): 0.8
Blood Glucose (fasting): 97

I was glad to see my ketones back "into the zone" and my weight drop, too. I'm going to try to keep my carbs and protein at about this level and watch my ketones.

I received 10 ketone test strips for my Precision Xtra meter yesterday. Tomorrow I'll test with that and the Nova Max to see if they give similar readings.

Keep clam, Terry