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Old 09-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #1231
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Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Ok, I caved and decided I couldn't wait for my meter to arrive, just had to run out and get one. So, go to Walgreens, they have the right meter, SCORE! Then, bought the strips, specified they must be ketone testing strips. Got home, messed up the 2 free strips, opened the others and bingo, it tested glucose, looked at the box, glucose testing strips. Back to Walgreens, they gave my money back on those strips but didn't have the ketone ones. To CVS, they didn't have them. To another pharmacy, they didn't have them, to Walmart pharmacy, they didn't have them although every one of them tried to sell me ketostix. So, bummer, have to order strips online and wait anyhow!!!!
According to what I have heard, there is no pharmacy that carries the ketone testing strips. They have to be ordered online.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:54 AM   #1232
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BTW, what is bulletproof coffee? Really strong or what?
google bulletproof coffee. It is coffee with a lot of fat.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:56 AM   #1233
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but you don't have to have Excel.

Libre Office (formerly Open Office) is free and it is compatible with Excel and the rest of the Office formats from MS.

It runs on Windows, Mac and Linux.

Main site: Home » LibreOffice

Choose the one for your computer: Windows-Mac-Linux/Ubuntu/(RPM/DEB)

Rebecca's spreadsheet works for sure. Thanks Rebecca =)
You're welcome and thanks for that added info!
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:57 AM   #1234
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Is that the performance book? It isn't a weight loss book, so it's directed towards people who are already at their goals. A lot of what we learned and interpreted on this thread is how to use the performance book for weight loss goals. We are hoping that Phinney/Volek release a weight-loss book based on NK that has more specifics.



I'm sorry to hear that you're not feeling well. Hopefully you'll feel better soon.
ohhhhhh, my bad!!!
... yes, the performance one(and probably the other)
ok, I have some recalculating to do.

would it be too much to ask to be 155 @18%BF with 36/24/36 as my measurements??
lol
Actually I wasn't far off back in the day but I have no idea what my BF% was.
if I went with that goal it still gives me a doable protein range.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:00 AM   #1235
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Wow I just checked my body fat..yuk......50.5% not good so that means I need to lose half of body fat...why did I let my self get like this
When I started, I was pretty high, too, at 44.8%. There is a bright side to starting high: Imagine how fun it will be to say that you started that high and lost that much!

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Old 09-09-2012, 11:01 AM   #1236
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Glad to see you Rebecca! And thanks for updating us on how things are going--you've had amazing success. Congratulations!
Thanks, Kristn!
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:03 AM   #1237
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Great advice about protein, Kristn! It's all about where a person needs to be to get into ketosis.

I went back to the Performance book which lays out specific numbers so much more clearly than the other book I think. And the Protein section says .6-1 g per *pound* not kg of LBM.

So Dr. Phinney's advice in his interview, and I think in the Art and Science book, is 1.5-2 times kg of what. LBM? That seems the closest correlation number between the two for me.

Range for LBM in kg (1.5-2) -- 81-109
Range for LBM in lb (.6-1) -- 72-120

I think the lower LBM times .6 should be a safe amount for most people. I would personally be a little bit uncomfortable dropping lower than that as long as calories are reduced for losing. *If* there isn't as much of a caloric deficit, it may not matter as much.



Can I throw out one general caveat? Even though many of us our veterans at weight loss and probably know this. I'm not sure daily weighing is really *that* helpful to see if someone is in the zone for losing. Dr. Phinney points out in several places the +/- 4 lb zone a body may be in at any time during the day or week. So the scale can mask real losing *or* give false confidence that "something" went right the day before. I've lost several inches in the last couple weeks, am visibly thinner, am in awesome ketosis, but the scale has shown only about a 2 lb loss. I do weigh daily and I think most of us do, but have to remind myself that day to day the scale isn't really telling me anything that clearly. Weekly a bit more so, but even that can mask a 4 lb loss if I'm up from hard exercise or hormonal shifts during the month.

--Jamie
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:03 AM   #1238
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I meant how people are recommending figuring protein totals based on GOAL lbm. In the book it says to figure out protein based on your(what I'm assuming) current lbm. I didn't see any specifications about GOAL lbm.

I'm feeling under the weather. All I've had today is some broth. My appetite is blunted as well.

The family went off to a baseball game and I opted to stay home with the dog and get some rest. I have a thyroid apt tomorrow and the drive is almost 2 hours long, blech.
It seems logical to me that you would eat to your Goal, not to your Current. If you eat to your Current, I would think you would maintain.

For some people who are obese, they may need to lose lean body mass as well as fat to get to goal. For others (like myself), I needed to gain around 10 pounds of lean mass to get to my lean mass goal. So I eat enough protein to be able to gain that lean mass.

Make sense?
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:05 AM   #1239
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Rebecca, thanks so much for posting your 2 month update, you are really an inspiration to us just starting this challenge!
Thanks, Buffy! I have to admit that it feels pretty good to finally be having good results after years of struggling with standard low carb!
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:06 AM   #1240
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Is that the performance book? It isn't a weight loss book, so it's directed towards people who are already at their goals. A lot of what we learned and interpreted on this thread is how to use the performance book for weight loss goals. We are hoping that Phinney/Volek release a weight-loss book based on NK that has more specifics.
Wouldn't you say the newest Atkins book is basically their contribution to a ketogenic weight loss diet?

How do you think it differs from their advice in the other books?
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:07 AM   #1241
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Tested my ketones today:

2.9!!! Woot!
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:09 AM   #1242
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Wouldn't you say the newest Atkins book is basically their contribution to a ketogenic weight loss diet?

How do you think it differs from their advice in the other books?
The Atkins recommendations for protein are higher than their newest book.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:09 AM   #1243
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Tested my ketones today:

2.9!!! Woot!
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:13 AM   #1244
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Tested my ketones today:

2.9!!! Woot!
Awesome!
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:13 AM   #1245
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The Atkins recommendations for protein are higher than their newest book.
That's the basic difference I seen as well.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:15 AM   #1246
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Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham View Post
It seems logical to me that you would eat to your Goal, not to your Current. If you eat to your Current, I would think you would maintain.

For some people who are obese, they may need to lose lean body mass as well as fat to get to goal. For others (like myself), I needed to gain around 10 pounds of lean mass to get to my lean mass goal. So I eat enough protein to be able to gain that lean mass.

Make sense?
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:16 AM   #1247
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Can I throw out one general caveat? Even though many of us our veterans at weight loss and probably know this. I'm not sure daily weighing is really *that* helpful to see if someone is in the zone for losing. Dr. Phinney points out in several places the +/- 4 lb zone a body may be in at any time during the day or week. So the scale can mask real losing *or* give false confidence that "something" went right the day before. I've lost several inches in the last couple weeks, am visibly thinner, am in awesome ketosis, but the scale has shown only about a 2 lb loss. I do weigh daily and I think most of us do, but have to remind myself that day to day the scale isn't really telling me anything that clearly. Weekly a bit more so, but even that can mask a 4 lb loss if I'm up from hard exercise or hormonal shifts during the month.

--Jamie
This is so true, sometimes I think we would be better off to not even have a scale, just go by how our clothes fit. People used to say, Jeans don't lie, but that was before stretch jeans came along

Years ago when I was in high school I didn't have a scale, didn't even know how much I weighed, turns out it was in the 120's. The only thing I went by was how my clothes fit me and if they seemed a little tight, I cut back on what I ate or got more active.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:17 AM   #1248
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Makes sense Rebecca..thanks! So I guess I'm shooting for 155/18%.aim high right?? lol..ok maybe 22% I've been 24% in the high 170s, so its possible!!
I'm also going by measurements of my waist/hips

3kids...YAY!!!!!

for those that ordered off of American Diabetes wholesale, at the end of your order did you complete a survey for a bonus?

I don't know if it's spam or a virus but I completed the survey and now I get to select a years worth of a mag subscription.

Last edited by betty301; 09-09-2012 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:18 AM   #1249
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Oh, and a another thought. Back when I was young, a looonnnggg time ago, people didn't exercise for fitness, they got their exercise through their daily work, etc. And, people weighed less but were the same size as people today who weigh more but have more muscle, etc. My daughters weigh more than I did when I was young, but they are as small or smaller than I was. If any of that makes any sense.....
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:20 AM   #1250
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My minimum protein with the Dr. Kwasniewski method is 69 g. which isn't too much lower than my .6 of LBM with Phinney/Volek (per their Performance book which I use since I'm working out regularly). So I'm going to stay in the 70-80 range I think, that about hits all my minimums with any calculation. LOL. And I'm obviously doing just fine with making plenty of ketones.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:21 AM   #1251
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This is so true, sometimes I think we would be better off to not even have a scale, just go by how our clothes fit. People used to say, Jeans don't lie, but that was before stretch jeans came along
So true! Darn spandex! (And vanity sizing) And I *do* need to weigh pretty regularly, it helps me watch for creeping pounds that I lie to myself about. But I've been at this long enough to know those numbers aren't telling the whole story either.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:21 AM   #1252
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Gosh ladies, you are all so knowledgeable! I applaud you and will be reading here daily. I have my first of 3-4 reconstruction surgeries coming up in 2 weeks and my plastic surgeon forbade me to be in ketosis when I arrived in his OR. I will get a spankin if I am. So I think I'm planning on giving this a try once I'm out of the woods with recovery. I recon about 6 weeks after surgery. Until then, I'm just gonna eat my 40-60g per day of carbs and do it as I am right now. I ordered the free meter and will put the combo meter on my wish list since I also need glucose strips. Then when I get the all clear to resume my old diet, I'm gonna give this a shot and see what it does to my cortisol levels and blood sugars. Typically I don't do well in deep ketosis. But I should be able to manage a .5 to 1 level.

I'm most excited to use it to see what happens when I add veggie and nut carbs into it. To see just how low I really need to be. I have no idea right now what my CCL is for losing much less for being in ketosis at a minimum .5 level. (I know this sounds counter intuitive to you guys cuz most of you are looking at how low you can go in carbs. But I know that for me, I will be unhappy and not be able to stick to it if I'm too low. So I'm hoping to have a balance of liveability and therapeutic effect. (Best of both worlds, I know.)

Port Yes, it's shocking to know our true numbers. But please have faith and know you never have to revisit that place again. When I was at my documented highest, the scale registered 54% body fat. Now the scale is down to somewhere around the 42% mark. It still sucks but after 90lbs I feel so much better and am convinced I'm healthier - despite the cancer!

It is gonna go down even further. And I'm not unique. So I know that this will work for you too and you will be able to see appreciable improvement in the near future!!! Hang in there!!!

Rebecca thanks for your calculator. Can't wait to download it and play with it!
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:31 AM   #1253
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Are you saying Phinny recommends 1.5 to 2g per KG of LBM? I didn't hear him refer to LBM, I thought he was just referencing target weight, but that obviously makes a big difference in the protein amounts. I have definitely heard the 0.6g to 1g in reference to LBM, but not Phinny's stuff. Maybe I missed it?
Mike, in the Phinney/Volek book "The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" (the newest book), it states the aim for protein intake between 0.6 to 1.0 grams per pound of lean body mass. It's in a few places in the book.

That figure (for me) is a bit more than the calculations of that Dr. K??? that Rebecca's calculations show, but only by about 5 grams.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:33 AM   #1254
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so I'm aiming for 165@24% as my first goal.
I'd love to be 150-155@18% as my second goal.

So for now my protein is 75-125(doable!)
Carbs 30 net
Fat- 170

Tweaking if need be of course. But I think it's a good starting place. Especially since I had previously been in such a deficit for sO long. which was not doing good things.

I better get to eating. I have zero appetite. Like I could eat but it just doesn't sound appetizing, you know?

I ordered my meter and selected 2 day shipping
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:48 AM   #1255
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Tested my ketones today:

2.9!!! Woot!
How fabulous is that reading!!! Woo hoo!!!! Good going.

Betty...hope you feel better soon.

Funny story. I walk every morning with 3-6 women and 2 dogs...we go about 3 miles up and over a steep hill and back down. I have been taking 1 TBSP of coconut oil before and that has helped with stamina. Then I took the CO and 1/2 tsp of salt. That was nice. And this morning I had one of my little fat bombs and I did GREAT!!!!! They even noticed and asked what I had before and I told them a "Rebecca fat bomb" and they all asked what was in it. I told them and the retired RN about exploded in horror. It was very fun....I'm bad.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:05 PM   #1256
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I was close to 50% BF when I started seriously losing weight in May 2010. I'm now around 36-37% I think. I hope to get to 28% by the end of this year, which is pushing hard with serious exercise (does more for my body fat losses than just diet) and not slacking off during the holidays.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:10 PM   #1257
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How fabulous is that reading!!! Woo hoo!!!! Good going.

Betty...hope you feel better soon.

Funny story. I walk every morning with 3-6 women and 2 dogs...we go about 3 miles up and over a steep hill and back down. I have been taking 1 TBSP of coconut oil before and that has helped with stamina. Then I took the CO and 1/2 tsp of salt. That was nice. And this morning I had one of my little fat bombs and I did GREAT!!!!! They even noticed and asked what I had before and I told them a "Rebecca fat bomb" and they all asked what was in it. I told them and the retired RN about exploded in horror. It was very fun....I'm bad.
October 1st, when I'm done with my sweetener-free September, I'm making fat bombs first thing!
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:18 PM   #1258
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October 1st, when I'm done with my sweetener-free September, I'm making fat bombs first thing!
I'm so grateful for your experimentation with the sweetener-free experiment. Phinney/Volek don't seem to think it's a big deal to have them, and a few others I have spoken to also agree that it's a rare person that is affected by them. But I have always wondered as I *do* use them, and not really sparingly (fat bombs, coffee, tea). So, thank you so much....consider your experiment for yourself and others as well. I sure appreciate you doing it!!!!
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #1259
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I'm so grateful for your experimentation with the sweetener-free experiment. Phinney/Volek don't seem to think it's a big deal to have them, and a few others I have spoken to also agree that it's a rare person that is affected by them. But I have always wondered as I *do* use them, and not really sparingly (fat bombs, coffee, tea). So, thank you so much....consider your experiment for yourself and others as well. I sure appreciate you doing it!!!!
Well you're very welcome. At this point I am not seeing any accelerated weight loss without the sweeteners. And I'm certainly making plenty of ketones and my blood glucose has been below 90 consistently. I do think I'm more comfortably cravings-free than I was. And it's easy to not try to snack when there are no sweet things to snack on, since that's my preference. I'm hoping that adding them back in, even if very limited, won't stir up the cravings.

I can't imagine not missing diet soda, it's such a happy thing. But I get tired of my health-conscious/Paleo friends reminding me that I'm drinking a neurotoxin according to some studies. And there's no convincing them that aspartame is relatively safe. Or that for *me* with metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, etc. that artificial sweeteners may be less toxic than sugar in my body.

Sometimes a girl just wants to be left alone with her chemicals!
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:28 PM   #1260
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Lots of amazing posts this weekend. Especially nice to see Rebecca's long term results. (As an engineer, I love plots!) Her lean mass is holding very steady, so it's clear you don't have to lose muscle along with fat on NK. Volek & Phinney, in "Performance", on page 27, cite several of their test subjects who gained several pounds of muscle, while losing lots of fat, on NK plus resistance exercise. (I was re-reading their book late last night instead of sleeping!)

Here's what I consumed yesterday.
Protein: 117.6 g (23%)
Carbs: 63.3 g (11%) (incl 25.5 g fiber)
Fat: 159.5 g (66%)
Calories: 2,095 (Est. burn rate 2,734)

This morning:
Weight: 178.8 (no change) (-4.2 since starting NK Aug 30)
BMI: 22.96 (target 21.83)
Ketones (blood): 0.7
Blood Glucose (fasting): 100

Kind of went over on carbs (one large avocado did that), but at least a lot of it was fiber.

Very happy to see my first morning reading of BOHB at 0.7 millimolar and in the desired 0.5 to 3 zone! (I was really depressed when it was only 0.2 yesterday afternoon.) I've only been at this for 10 days, so I'm approaching the 2 week mark where keto-adaptation typically begins.

Keep clam,
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