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Old 09-08-2012, 07:39 PM   #1171
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Mike, I am new, so no expert, but I would guess if the scale isn't moving the best thing to tweak is the protein. I don't know what the exact right calculation is, but if you have been at 95-105, maybe just for a week you can cut it back to about 85 and see what happens? I am not male, nor do I lift weights, so I don't know how cutting back on protein might affect someone who is in to weights and stuff. Good luck to you and I hope some knowledgeable friends will chime in for you.

Joe, good reminders about tracking everything so we can clearly see the correlation to whatever element of our diet is throwing us off track.

The Phinney book is hopefully going to be in off hold from the library soon, and meanwhile I am absorbing all the videos I can find. And hanging here of course.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:52 PM   #1172
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Oh man! That looks delicious, Amy!!!! I must get some liquid sweetner. All I have is granulated Erythritol!! I need fat bombs. I've decided...they are the only thing that's going to help me keep my protein down and fat up!

Mike and Kristn: I live north of you in Bellingham, can you recommend a good doctor that supports this woe? I'm willing to travel, if needed. I have a good regular doctor, but I need a doctor to help me with my thyroid and metabolic issues. I fly to California twice per year to see my old endo (who is an excellent doctor, but she does NOT support this WOE and pushes statins on me constantly).

Miker295: I am very new at this, but it seems like maybe your protein is too high and that is why you are in and out of ketosis??? I'm learning all of this myself.

Pantograph: I am so sorry that the meter didn't show NK. What a bummer when you've been working so hard!!


So, I've learned a lesson, and I think a couple of you mentioned it above: I really cannot eat meat/protein rich foods more than once per day because it really racks up the grams of protein. I never knew that! I must have been eating so much protein before...no wonder I wasn't losing. Combine that with only loosely counting carbs and it's amazing I was maintaining my weight at all!!! Tomorrow I will buy a candy mold and some liquid AS so that I can make fat bombs. They look and sound delish and will help me stay satisfied without increasing my protein. Thanks for the fabulous ideas and all the information! I really love this thread!!!!!
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:58 PM   #1173
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I'm hesitant to drop protein a lot, Mike. Phinney and Volek know their stuff and I think they recommend enough protein to protect LBM when dieting. I'd lower carbs, up fat (even if that means raising calories) and keep protein at the lower range of your 1.5-2 g/kg reference weight, I think Phinney calls it, I use my LBM for that since that's what I want to be sure to preserve. For me at 5'6", that's about 125 lbs currently as best as I can tell. So my range is 85-113.

I think higher fat for a better percentage, moderate protein and very low carbs is more important than going too low with the protein. But I've been dieting awhile and have just read so much "protein to spare LBM, protein to spare LBM" over and over. I may discover I'm wrong about this, but everything Phinney and Volek have said that I've heard or read hasn't been lower than .6-1 of LBM in lbs or 1.5-2 times LBM in kg. I'd be sure not to go lower than the lowest of those, especially if you're active.

Last edited by 3Kids4me; 09-08-2012 at 08:00 PM..
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:10 PM   #1174
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I hope I'm not giving contrary advice to what others have discovered about protein amounts. I just fear losing LBM and struggling to keep weight off when I hit goal, KWIM?

I've been pretty comfortable in the 70-80g range, but I'm working out too, so maybe that helps me get into ketosis with a bit more protein. I do think intense exercise (particularly resistance) helps with making a bit more protein and carbs possible.

Here were my numbers from today:

Calories: 1,487
Carbs: 15
Fat: 130
Protein: 70
BG 2 hours after dinner: 88
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:25 PM   #1175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Kids4me View Post
I hope I'm not giving contrary advice to what others have discovered about protein amounts. I just fear losing LBM and struggling to keep weight off when I hit goal, KWIM?

I've been pretty comfortable in the 70-80g range, but I'm working out too, so maybe that helps me get into ketosis with a bit more protein. I do think intense exercise (particularly resistance) helps with making a bit more protein and carbs possible.

Here were my numbers from today:

Calories: 1,487
Carbs: 15
Fat: 130
Protein: 70
BG 2 hours after dinner: 88
I don't think it's contradictory at all! It seems we all have a sweet spot and the trick is finding it. I think I got confused about protein required for LBM because I didn't know if I should look at ultimate goal weight LBM, or a 1/2 way point LBM number or go for current. I have heard all three. In the end I picked a number that seems doable for me. You are right though, that upping the fat will change the percentages to be in better ratio. It seems like Kristn is always talking about carefully monitoring your macronutrients, so isn't it possible to have protein too high, even for a guy who works out? Or what you are saying is that if he lowers it too low not only will he lose LBM but he will eventually have no where to go?
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:38 PM   #1176
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My numbers for today:

Calories - 1301
Protein - 83 gr
Fat - 100 gr
Carb - 13

BG 2 hours after dinner was in the 70's, the lowest it has tested since I started last Monday. Will have to keep a close eye on that as a diabetic.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:02 PM   #1177
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Juliekaboolie - I don't know of any doctors that I can recommend personally yet, but there is a site that lists low carb doctors so just search for that and it will give you the info. I did a quick search and it lists Dr. Patricia Elliott in Bellingham but the listing is a few years old.

amlyjo - that is what others have told me but I have struggled to cut back the protein below 95g or so. I've quit protein shakes and have made fat bombs and such, but I still wind up around that level. Today was the best so far - only 76g - because I started the day with a shake made from HWC and almond milk. I'm not sure I can do that every day though!

3KidsforMe - yeah especially after listening to the podcast I feel like if I go too low on the protein I will lose lean mass, which of course I don't want to do. So I am a bit stumped.

Are you saying Phinny recommends 1.5 to 2g per KG of LBM? I didn't hear him refer to LBM, I thought he was just referencing target weight, but that obviously makes a big difference in the protein amounts. I have definitely heard the 0.6g to 1g in reference to LBM, but not Phinny's stuff. Maybe I missed it?
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:21 PM   #1178
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My day. Started off rOcky but here it is:

1932 calories
164g fat
31g carbs
92g protein

Hm. Way too many carbs today and my protein is a little high. I will see how the scale respOnds in the morning.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:51 AM   #1179
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Hi everyone. I've been reading here with great interest. I historically have found that I must keep protein low and fats on the lower side with carbs from veggies being higher in order to lose. But recently my A1c has been trending higher over the last 6 months.

I was at a 6.9 originally - when I was eating my Make-A-Wish diet after the ca diagnosis when I went off low carb and said ef it. I'm eating what I want if I'm dying.

So then during treatment I was back low carb and doing IF and kinda sorta JUDDDing too and went down to 5.3

The last 2 have been 5.6 and 5.9 respectively. I'm on a anti-cancer pill that increases insulin and can cause lipid problems (which we are also seeing in my lipid panel with a high ldl).

Sooo...I might be looking at trying to revise the diet once more.

I have a question for all you schmarty mcschmartipants.

I was putting in menus to see if I could get a handle on what this would look like each day. I already have limited proteins close to 60g daily anyway. But that's a broad term.

Is it 60g of good proteins (i.e. meat, dairy, eggs protein)

Or is it 60g of TOTAL protein from all sources (i.e. meat, dairy, eggs, nuts, veggies, fruits)

That's a big difference! Cuz the veggies and fruits don't have "complete" proteins in them, are they still counted toward the daily protein rec?

Here's a sample menu based on eating 1200cals/day. I generally have to be around 1200 or below to lose. (Actually closer to around 900-1000cals), but I get those numbers by JUDDDing. I don't think I can keep cals at 900-1000/day on a day-in day-out basis every day! But I think I can probably do 1200cals daily.

If 60g is made up purely of complete protein sources:
B - 1 eggs

L - 2oz Chicken Breast
1 egg

D - 3oz Chicken Breast
1oz Feta Cheese

Protein Total - 58.1g Protein

But now, when I fill in my other foods - here's what happens to the protein. It is increased by the "incomplete" proteins from veggies and walnuts, etc.

B - 1 Egg, soft boiled
1/2 tsp Butter
3oz Baby Spinach
4 Grape Tomatoes
1 clove Garlic
1 tsp Olive Oil

L - 2oz Chicken Breast
1 HB Egg
3/4 Tbsp Mayonnaise
1 tsp Dijon Mustard
6 Grape Tomatoes
1/4 Avocado

S - 1oz Crispy Walnuts

D - 3oz Chicken Breast
1 tsp Olive Oil
3oz Broccoli
1tsp Butter
Side Salad(2c Romaine, 4 Grape Tomatoes, 1/8c Red Onion, 1/4c Cucumber, 1/4 Avocado, 1 cu. in Feta Cheese, 3Tbsp House Vinaigrette Dressing)

Daily Totals -
1201 Cals
Fat 90.5g 66% Fat
Carbs 33.9g 10% Carbs
Fiber 15.7g ?
Protein 72.5g 24% Protein

So the incomplete proteins account for 14.40g of additional daily protein.

Does the Phinney/Volek plan specify "what constitutes protein" in that .6 - 1g per lb of LBM? Or do they only stipulate that it should be "total protein" from all sources?

And the other question is regarding carbs. Do we calculate the percentage of calories carbs equate to AFTER subtracting for fiber? In other words, if we take it as non-netted carbs, then per ******, the menu above has 10% of cals from carbs.

If you net carbs then I actually ate 18.2g of Net Effective Carbs. (18.2g x 4cals/g=72.80cals) / 1201cals x 100 = 6.1% from net effective carbs.

Or am I supposed to decrease the carb intake so that whole non-netted carbs should be in the vicinity of 5-6%?

I could live and do just fine on this type of menu above. It's pretty close to what I mostly do on the alternating UDs now, except I don't have quite as much fat usually. But I'm thinking it is still too much protein?

I'm 5' 4.5" tall and my goal has been 150lbs. I'm 50. Female. Post Meno. (If I really do have 126lbs of LBM per Livestrong and About(website) then that 150lbs is too low.)

Per Livestrong here are my stats:
220 lbs and 64.5" tall female:
42.34% Body Fat (93.15lbs of Body Fat + 126.85lbs of LBM)
BMI = 37.2

So if my goal is to have 25% Body Fat then my goal weight should acually be 170 and not 150 as I've presently set my goal?

And so based on having 126lbs of LBM, per P/V, I should have 126 x .6 = 75.6g -126g protein daily? Or by WHO 126 x .56 = 70.56g protein?

By JKs calculations my due weight would be 170 (goal weight ) - 100 = 70 x 1g = 70g of protein daily?

Am I making these calculations correctly?

And then it goes all the way back to 70g of protein from WHAT? complete proteins or total proteins from all sources.

Thanks!

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Last edited by pooticus; 09-09-2012 at 12:59 AM..
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:21 AM   #1180
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Morning everyone!

Weight is up .5 lb which I kind of expected with TOM and all. I've decided to keep going for a bit and see if I can lose another 10. At this point its not really a size issue so much as I still have two areas I think could stand some fat loss (upper arms and abs) Friday my counts were

P: 78
F: 146
C: 19
Cals: 1776
Burn according to fitbit: 443

Elevated protein was due to having to eat at wendy's since I was running behind and didn't have time to cook. I also ate again when I got home since I hadn't eaten much that day. I realized as I was cooking too that I wasn't even that hungry but thought I should eat some of it.

Saturday:

P:63
F:136
C: 19
Cals: 1548
Burn: 260

I like 1500 cals a lot however I am finding during the day I'm not really hungry and I seem to do most of my eating at night so I need to shift that a bit probably. No workouts yet since I did way too much on friday and it has set me back a bit. Oh well I'll start up again Monday.

g3rmanchik: Thanks it does actually since...I spent about 10 yrs not weighing myself at all. There was one point when I first did Atkins all those years ago that was my feel good point. I'm there or close to there I know but with body changes due to pregnancies..it feels different this time. Awesome loss!

Kristn: I keep almost adding an "I" to your name. You're right at this point it really is about body comp. Congrats on being so close! I'm looking to be somewhere in the 20-25 range on BF too.

Terry: That's awesome! I expect over time as more meters measure both the cost will come down a little bit.

Julie: I had induction Flu too. It was strange considering...Congrats! Dr Attia is what got me to add fats and he was right. Congrats! Make sure you drink broth or salt!

Shelly: Thanks I'm ecstatic. It feels good to take control of something that felt beyond my control for so long. I'm finding the positivity spreading into other areas too. Sorry if that sounds all twee but it's true for me at least. My dad who is a doctor supposedly ate low carb for a while although I've no idea how strictly he stuck to it. I have a feeling he cheated since I know how he is and he had stents put in years later. Although in my Dad's case I would argue its the loaves of bread he would consume in one sitting and the endless fruit snacking... He's lost some weight but he continuously grazes and eats fruit. He does try to limit the bad fats but I'm not sure how conversant he is with the more recent research. I'm going to lend him my art and science book although getting him to actually read it will be a chore. Also when they look at the risk factors....how many people are eating the fats while also eating a high sugar diet you know? Ah yes that look. I hate that look. In fact I hate telling people how I've lost my weight since they give me the virtual version of it. Someone (also a school teacher) told me eating Atkins would kill me. Same day she went on to say she was investigating Paleo. I just had a nice giggle. I also make a similar Faux Cocoa to yours...it's fantastic. Also I like *food*.

Amlyjo: I do total carbs not net carbs but it's easier if you pick the really low carb veggies like asparagus. Also you can get the liquid stevia or sweetleaf granulated which has less of the carbs.

Buffy: Although I initially at less I'm finding 1400-1600 is working really well for me. Also I've lost even though I know there were several days where I ate over 2000 so Paula is right. If you need something sweet look up the recipe for cream cheese clouds.

Portcop01: I only eat 2x a day. I have bulletproof coffee for breakfast which although it has calories isn't like real food and then an occasional snack.

3kids4me: Nice run! I have that one big meal issue too. I've never noticed a difference with sweeteners and I already have given up so much...I also want to protect LBM but I find I'm just naturally eating less protein:/

Paula: You have a point there....It's nice to know one more fat bomb isn't going to derail my efforts

JoeEO: I have noticed I do better with protein on the lower end of the scale for me. I'm also very active...walk at least 5 miles a day and I workout 4-6 days a week. I exercise for sanity and for vanity but most results come from diet. Also you have to find the sweet spot on exercise vs increased food consumption.

Pooti: Welcome! I count all proteins personally.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:02 AM   #1181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Kids4me View Post
I hope I'm not giving contrary advice to what others have discovered about protein amounts. I just fear losing LBM and struggling to keep weight off when I hit goal, KWIM?

I've been pretty comfortable in the 70-80g range, but I'm working out too, so maybe that helps me get into ketosis with a bit more protein. I do think intense exercise (particularly resistance) helps with making a bit more protein and carbs possible.

Here were my numbers from today:

Calories: 1,487
Carbs: 15
Fat: 130
Protein: 70
BG 2 hours after dinner: 88
I agree about the protein/weight training/ketosis thingy.
Is this what your aiming for daily, caloric wise? you could probably take in a bit more fat to make the range greater between fat and protein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by portcop01 View Post
Buffy here it is I had to work at it all day!!

Cal......fat......carb......protein...
B-2 eggs. 136.....9.3....1...........11
1.5 tbs co. 176.....20.4....0.........0
Coffee w/ stevia

Lunch- can sardines.......210....15.......0.......20
Chicken wing just a bite..27....1.8........0.......2.5

D-2 oz shrimp..............86......2.8.......07.....13.7
2 oz new York steak.....136.....7.7......0........16.2
Heavy cream.................103.....1.......08........06
Bacon dressing.......257............26.7.....05........0 6
Spinach...."....................7........0........ .............09
Onion-----------------------24......0......5.6..........06
Olive oil...........................239.....27......0... ........0

Cal=1403
Fat= 122
Carb=10.6
protein=68.2

77% fat
20% protein
3% carbs.

I really work hard at this!!
Eggs cooked in butter
A serving of nuts with lunch
some cream cheese fit in there somewhere.

Although your percentages look good anyway!
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:21 AM   #1182
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Originally Posted by miker295 View Post

amlyjo - that is what others have told me but I have struggled to cut back the protein below 95g or so. I've quit protein shakes and have made fat bombs and such, but I still wind up around that level. Today was the best so far - only 76g - because I started the day with a shake made from HWC and almond milk. I'm not sure I can do that every day though!



3KidsforMe - yeah especially after listening to the podcast I feel like if I go too low on the protein I will lose lean mass, which of course I don't want to do. So I am a bit stumped.


Are you saying Phinny recommends 1.5 to 2g per KG of LBM? I didn't hear him refer to LBM, I thought he was just referencing target weight, but that obviously makes a big difference in the protein amounts. I have definitely heard the 0.6g to 1g in reference to LBM, but not Phinny's stuff. Maybe I missed it?
why can't you do this everyday? Try it for a couple days and see how it works. It sounds like you are stuck in your way of doing things. I was too at first. I can easily eat whole steaks and a package of bacon
What podcast is this??? I wanna listen too!!

Get the book!
The performance one is only 5.99 on kindle.
I've read .6-1g in reference to current LBM.
I was kinda wondering where goal LBM came from but maybe that is just a quicker way to get into Keto??

Pooti!! That is a mouthful of data and calculations,lol
stick around and learn as you go!
I would also go with your current LBM and adjust downward as you start losing. I count mostly pure protein sources and let the other stuff fall where it may. It seems to work out either way.
Do you really think you have 93lbs of fat?? You would be 128lbs if you lost that much.
I come up with a range of 77-128 protein grams based on your current BF%

Last edited by betty301; 09-09-2012 at 06:23 AM..
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:36 AM   #1183
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Originally Posted by g3rmanchik View Post
Joe, I don't know how much u weigh but I think IMHO that ur protein is a bit high IMHO of course
240 LBs - at about 30 percent body fat. I am thinking that 200lbs is my LBM target - hence the 120 grams of protein number
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:40 AM   #1184
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Pooti!!!!! So glad to see you here!!!
Quote:
I have a question for all you schmarty mcschmartipants.
<--- I WANT to be one of those!!

But...I am not. So will let others weigh in, pun inteneded.

I will just say that I have a secret concern about letting protein fall TOO low. I'm trying to stay close to the lowest end of the .6 - 1 per LBM goal range. I think I'm going to start keeping a closer eye on it, and trying to make sure I have close to 68g (my minimum) complete protein per day. I haven't really been paying attention to that. Good catch!

Also - the general advice on this thread is NOT to worry about %'s of macros. Figure out your specific protein target, your specific carb target, and then use fat as the variable. If weight loss is stalled, ketones aren't happening, or whatever, add more fat. I think I repeated that advice correctly! someone will let me know if I did not (I'm a newb).

Having the meter is such an eye opener. I'm seeing that I REALLY have to keep things very tight to reach .5 or greater ketones.

There was a post above about adding more fat. There is a very interesting spreadsheet that I grabbed from the "measuring ketones with a meter" thread at the Diabetes forum. (it's in the diet/nutrition section) One of the posters there created a spreadsheet to examine "Ketogenic Ratio" which is basically a calculation comparing ketogenic macros (fat) to non-ketogenic macros (carbs and protein). The spreadsheet does the adjusting for differing calorie amounts. The idea is to target a K/R of 2 or more to maximize ketosis. I think I am seeing some sort of truth to it. When I put my macros on that sheet, I often end up having to add fat in order to get the ratio up.

Anyway...maybe that's all voodoo. Just thought I would mention it in case anyone else who is a data monger wants to go looking for it on that other forum. Of course I cannot provide links, otherwise I would.

FBG 108 today - lowest in about 10 days. Scale was down, ketones at least present, LOL! (.3) Yesterday was a crazy day with "life" so I am looking forward to a fresh week and hopefully better control over my schedule, meals, and blood sugar. (I am proud of myself for making the best possible choices yesterday and not using a crazy day as an excuse to throw in the towel! that is progress for me! Only made possible by LC, that's for sure!)

DG
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Mini Goals:
#1: Weight 184
#2: Weight 179
#3: Weight 174
#4: Weight 169 (normal BMI)
#5: Weight 164
#6: Weight 159
#7: Weight 154

Last edited by Doggygirl; 09-09-2012 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:41 AM   #1185
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BTW, what is bulletproof coffee? Really strong or what?
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:45 AM   #1186
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Good morning all!!hope ever one had a good day yesterday?i did my son and grandson came for a visit..to short..they live in Indiana .they got here around 6 and left 6:30 this morning.my grandson is 20 so him,my husband and I set up till1:30 playing wii ...

Any way I did great yesterday .

Fat-77%....122
Prot-20%.....68.2
Carbs-3% ...10.6

I lost a lb.i did not eat any nuts or pork rinds,when I was on Atkins before they stalled me.... But I did have a 1 oz oz of heavy cream..so that will be a nice treat in mornings.

I really would love to see 179 by oct.1...

I did walk to store to get sour cream for h..bake pot....it takes 10 min to walk there.up hill and down....

You no I don't miss any food at all this morning...
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:50 AM   #1187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
And then it goes all the way back to 70g of protein from WHAT? complete proteins or total proteins from all sources.
I personally think total is easier to track if you are journaling. But it comes down to changing what you eat, adding more fat to smaller portions of protein. And for sure, concentrate on meat portions as much as you can because they are satiating compared to other protein sources. Little decisions make a big difference in the protein counts. Now I avoid peanuts but allow macadamia and hazelnuts. No afternoon cheese snacks but instead choose a coconut chocolate treat. No big yogurt portions but instead half a cup with cream added. Some of the changes are fun...including more egg yolks and less egg whites, adding chorizo and sausages to the breakfast menu, lots of guacamole and sour cream.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:07 AM   #1188
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Good morning everyone!

Yesterday my (maintenance) intake was:
Protein: 86.6 (18%)
Carbs: 16.6 (4%)
Fat: 136.7 (65%)
Alcohol: 27.1 (13.8%)
Calories: 1879
This morning:
Weight: 151 (down .6)
Ketones: .9
Blood Glucose: 87

This is one of the lowest ketone readings that I've had. I'm not sure what happened. Dinner was a lean meat (flank steak) without much added fat (and a few vodka cocktails). I also guesstimated the amounts. I'm not going to worry unless I go below .5.

I measured this morning. No surprise my bust and waist measurements are up slightly--thank you TOM. I did plug my measurements into a few online BF calculators and this one is the closest to my hydrostatic testing results. I measure on Sundays so I'm going to plug my numbers in this calculator weekly to estimate BF%. I'll get retested in 3 months and I'll evaluate again at that time.

I'm now going to try to catch up with all the posts!
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February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?
Nutritional Ketosis Thread Information and Posts of Interest
My Maintenance Journal
Original weight 2001--257 Maintaining 165-175 from 2002-March 2012
March 2012 to August 2012--175/150 Made Goal 8/27/12!
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:11 AM   #1189
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Huh, I used that calculator that is closest to your hyrdo test, Kristn and I got %28!!

I'm still going to go with 30% though.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:23 AM   #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miker295 View Post
I have a question about calculating optimal protein. Dr. Phinney said several times that it should be between 1.5g and 2g per KG of body weight. However I've seen elsewhere on this thread mention that the ideal amount is between 0.6g and 1g per LB of target body mass. Those formulas give me two very different ranges:

Current weight 72 KG (weight not LBM, right?), so range there would be 108 to 144

Target LBM (which is close to my current LBM) is 135 LBS so range there is 81 to 135g.

I have been averaging in the 95 to 105g a day range and haven't been losing. I'm also in and out of ketosis it seems - yesterday morning after two days of business dinners I tested 0.9, and this morning I tested a 0.3.
I guess I would go by what the book says rather than the interview. Why not stick with the lower end of the lower range for a while to see if that effects your ketosis.

Quote:
Kristen - I am going to see Dr. Ellis on Monday so hopefully she will be able to do the right kind of blood work to rule other stuff out.

Mike
Cool. I hope that she works out for you and can help you get to the bottom of what's going on with you!
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:26 AM   #1191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham View Post
I have created a little calculator to help you come up with those numbers and you can find it here.

You will need to have Excel installed on your computer to download this calculator, and you will need to download it to enter in your own numbers.

I hope this helps.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but you don't have to have Excel.

Libre Office (formerly Open Office) is free and it is compatible with Excel and the rest of the Office formats from MS.

It runs on Windows, Mac and Linux.

Main site: Home » LibreOffice

Choose the one for your computer: Windows-Mac-Linux/Ubuntu/(RPM/DEB)

Rebecca's spreadsheet works for sure. Thanks Rebecca =)
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:28 AM   #1192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeEO View Post
I have been meaning to write about my experience with nutritional ketosis dieting. I have been eating LCHF for about a month and have not had a huge amount of success. I have never really been able to get into ketosis and I am somewhat frustrated - though today I did have a break through with a relatively high blood ketone (very fatty pork ribs after my son's football game did the trick)

Lesson's learned:

1) Track your diet macros, weight, blood glucose (BG), blood ketone (BK) levels and activity levels. This is the really the ONE big thing I learned this first month. I had been playing around with my protein intake while letting my carb intake drift to around 40 gram (total). This failed miserably as I got out of the low level of ketosis that I was experiencing. I ONLY realized this after looking at my excel sheet - I noticed that when I kept the carbs around 20-30 grams - the needle on the scale was moving, and the my BG and BK level were "good" - or as good as I have experienced so far.

2) I have settled at or about 2000 KCAL, 120 grams protein, 20 grams carbs (15 net) and the rest fat. I think of myself as a big guy, but I am only 5'10" and am very sedentary most of the day (long commute and desk job). I think these are fairly reasonable numbers as I am not starving.

4) Read and Re-Read the Phinney/Volek books. (Especially chapter on mineral replacement)

5) I walk every day at lunch, lift weigh 3X/week. I am not sure how much
exercising helps with losing weight. This annoys me to no end as I am a real work-out warrior (or try to be given my age). I think I need to keep the exercise at a more moderate level...



Peace,

Joe E O
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeEO
240 LBs - at about 30 percent body fat. I am thinking that 200lbs is my LBM target - hence the 120 grams of protein number
Joe--I'm a bit confused! You say that 200 pounds your lean body mass (lbm) goal? At 240 @ 30%BF your lbm is 168. Are you trying to gain muscle and stay the same weight?
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:39 AM   #1193
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Ha! Kristn,

I plugged all my information into that calculator last night and almost screamed with elation. It said I only had 27.44% BF!!! I was elated! It mean't I was only "overweight" and no obese any longer. LOL!

I'm thinking on me something is wrong. No way am I that %BF. I don't have 159lbs of LBM. No way.

So then I found one on About.com that uses the neck circumference and I turned out to be what I stated above. Somewhere around 42% or so. And that's in line with what my Tanita scale says at times. So I figure that is more in the right ballpark for me. I'm guessing at 5'4.5" (unathletic frame) my LBM is somewhere between 120-126lbs.

Thanks for answering everyone! Just to be clear, what book should I order from Kindle? I know it's the P/V book but which one?

Thanks!
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:41 AM   #1194
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Where is Rebecca's spreadsheet and what does it do, please?
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:45 AM   #1195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
Where is Rebecca's spreadsheet and what does it do, please?
It is here:

https://www.box.com/s/e244d6ebddaf5605d208

...and you figure out what protein grams you want to eat, put that number in and then adjust the other two numbers fat/carbs to see your fat percentage. You can adjust fat grams to adjust the percentage.

Since you must eat a minimum of protein to keep from losing muscle mass, that makes it the number to start with.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:48 AM   #1196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
Where is Rebecca's spreadsheet and what does it do, please?
Here is Rebecca's very good post on how to get the protein grams figure:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...l#post15830358
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:53 AM   #1197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliekaboolie View Post
Mike and Kristn: I live north of you in Bellingham, can you recommend a good doctor that supports this woe? I'm willing to travel, if needed. I have a good regular doctor, but I need a doctor to help me with my thyroid and metabolic issues. I fly to California twice per year to see my old endo (who is an excellent doctor, but she does NOT support this WOE and pushes statins on me constantly).
I am seeing Wendy Ellis at the Tahoma Clinic. I haven't been back in a while (things are going so well) but when I saw her in March I was Paleo and she was totally supportive of that. She's an ND and the Tahoma Clinic doesn't take insurance (I did get some reimbursement from mine after submitting the bills). She ended up sending me to an endo (Robert Murray) after some really high cortisol results. He's not very alternative, but does test free T3 and free T4, and pretty much looked at my year's worth of tests and got my thyroid dialed in almost perfectly right away. But I wouldn't go to him for diet support and wouldn't be surprised if he recommended statins.

I like Dr. Ellis, when I saw her I had already had a bunch of tests done by my previous MD and ND. She did a comprehensive 24 hour urine test for all hormones that was really enlightening. Based on my results she made recommendations and put me on some supplements that have been really helpful. She would have taken care of my thyroid too, but felt that she had to refer based on that crazy cortisol test. I decided to stay with Dr. Murray for the thyroid (he takes insurance), but will continue to see Dr. Ellis for other hormone and metabolic issues. She is not listed on the low carb doctors blog, but the founder of the Tahoma Clinic (Dr. Jonathan Wright) is.

When I was looking for a Thyroid doctor last year several people on yahoo groups enthusiastically recommended Dr. Joseph Wessels in Bellingham.

You should also take a look at the low-carb doctors blog that Mike talked about. There is a Patricia Elliott, N.D. in Bellingham listed there and some other interesting ones in the state.

Good luck!! Finding the right doctor took me almost a year. It's really hard to get the right fit especially when dealing with hormones and metabolic issues.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:55 AM   #1198
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There are two books:

the art and science of low carb living
and
the art and science of low carb performance
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:59 AM   #1199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
Ha! Kristn,

I plugged all my information into that calculator last night and almost screamed with elation. It said I only had 27.44% BF!!! I was elated! It mean't I was only "overweight" and no obese any longer. LOL!

I'm thinking on me something is wrong. No way am I that %BF. I don't have 159lbs of LBM. No way.

So then I found one on About.com that uses the neck circumference and I turned out to be what I stated above. Somewhere around 42% or so. And that's in line with what my Tanita scale says at times. So I figure that is more in the right ballpark for me. I'm guessing at 5'4.5" (unathletic frame) my LBM is somewhere between 120-126lbs.
I think the different calculators are only accurate for certain body types and I'm sure that there are other factors. I was using the about.com one and my Omron scale and getting 28% to 30% from those calculators. I was hydrostatically tested yesterday and I was 26.3 so I plugged my numbers into a bunch of calculators to find the one that was closest to my actual BF%. Obviously YMMV. I think it's highly individual.
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:05 AM   #1200
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Newcomers!!

Please check out this link: Nutritional Ketosis Thread Information and Posts of Interest

I have compiled links to earlier threads and other vital information about NK. It's not comprehensive, but it's a good place to start.
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