Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by amlyjo

I see there is another monster thread here in the challenge area where someone is doing a "modified fat fast". I got through a lot of the thread and wondered if any of you had (I think I see some names in common).

As far as I can tell the biggest difference is lowering the protein. It looks like she and the others call it "modified" because it's higher protein than a true Fat Fast, which you would only want to stay on for a short time because of muscle loss, right? How do you know how low is too low on the protein?

I tell you my goal right now is to get this danged fat off of me sooner rather than later. That modified fat fast thing is not looking so different from what we are doing here. What am I missing?

Looks like today I will hit:
calories 2,077
net carbs 22
fat 179
protein 64

I had a really wonderful and luxurious day with all that fat, so I hope this shows up on the scale!! Wish the carbs were even lower though, but I haven't really been able to be below 20-24 at all.

Can you give the name of the other challenge, would enjoy reading through it.

[juliekaboolie]

I worry sometimes about the heart attack issue, but I have read SO MUCH that points to saturated fats being healthy rather than unhealthy that I really am believing this woe is what is best. From what I've read, the Problem with heart disease seems to stem frOm too much insulin and/or inflammation in the body. I also think that it's individual. Some of us are carb intolerant, therefore eating too many carbs will, over time, kill us. Anyway, I have further proof that this woe works at improving my health when I compare older pictures of myself to where I am now. It's a marked improvement and I still have so long to go.

Please try to not be driven by fear. Read as much as you can. I'd like to encourage you to google Peter Attia. He has been informative as just one place to start.

[Buffy45]

I have just finished up day 5 of trying this plan. I think I have the grams of protein, carbs and fat figured out but how do you go about setting the daily calorie needs? Since I am not very active, I settled on 1200 -1400 daily. I am 66, 5'6" and weighed 208 the day I started. Figured my p/f/c's based on goal weight of 150. Do the calories sound about right for weight loss. Meter is ordered but haven't received it yet. I am type 2 diabetic, hypothyroid. Any suggestion appreciated. TIA

[Flavia]

Buffy, we are here=

My modified version of the fat fast 5.8lbs lost in less than 3 days!!!!

Not sure if this is the same thread the lady talked about

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

I have just finished up day 5 of trying this plan. I think I have the grams of protein, carbs and fat figured out but how do you go about setting the daily calorie needs? Since I am not very active, I settled on 1200 -1400 daily. I am 66, 5'6" and weighed 208 the day I started. Figured my p/f/c's based on goal weight of 150. Do the calories sound about right for weight loss. Meter is ordered but haven't received it yet. I am type 2 diabetic, hypothyroid. Any suggestion appreciated. TIA

Hi Buffy,
If you figure out the protein, carbs, and fat grams then the calories will naturally follow. You can't change your calories without changing one of those macronutrients. Multiply carbs and protein grams by 4 and fat grams by 9 and add them all together. That will be the daily calories in your plan. If you are not losing then adjust your fat grams down. That will naturally reduce your calories.

And I think your goals are good. Mine were similar and my calories ended up in the 1200-1400 range.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

I have just finished up day 5 of trying this plan. I think I have the grams of protein, carbs and fat figured out but how do you go about setting the daily calorie needs? Since I am not very active, I settled on 1200 -1400 daily. I am 66, 5'6" and weighed 208 the day I started. Figured my p/f/c's based on goal weight of 150. Do the calories sound about right for weight loss. Meter is ordered but haven't received it yet. I am type 2 diabetic, hypothyroid. Any suggestion appreciated. TIA

Hmm, calories seem a touch low if that's your day to day range. I think it's okay as long as you vary them and make sure you don't go too long at that level and get too hungry. I think I shot myself in the foot doing that.

You will also be surprised at just how much you can eat without gaining on this plan. Something about the macronutrients keeps it from being very fattening even with the calories high. I'm guessing because with protein and carbs limited the insulin levels must get quite low.

[Flavia]

Buffy I am also 5'6" and my caloric needs according to the numbers are
1667.25 on the low end
2193.75 on the high end
I am also hypothyroid and pre diabetic and sedentary

[mom2zeke]

If you are in ketosis, getting adequate protein (but not so much as to kick you out of ketosis), and keeping carbs low then you can lower your fat based on goals and satiety. The whole point of this exercise is to access your body fat stores as part of your daily fat requirements. I'm not suggesting low-fat at all. Just that too high of an intake of fat will stop your weight loss.

Dr. Phinney says to eat to satiety with fat and if you're not losing then lower the fat. I am one who could eat too much fat if left to my own devices so I set a goal of eating in the 65-75% range.

[portcop01]

I'm 55 and 5'1 I think 1300 to 1500 cal would be ok..any advice!!

[Buffy45]

Thanks for the help. I am pretty satisfied with this amount of calories and will see what the scale says at the end of week one. I find myself wanting an evening snack and or an after meal bite of something sweet and or chocolate, but not sure if that is just a habit.

[shelley]

Buffy...I"m 5' 5-3/4" tall, 64 years of age and also hypothyroid and pre-diabetic per the last couple years of testing between 100-104 on fasting glucose. I just got my NovoMax Plus meter and strips and am reading the pamphlets in the kit to see how to use it and will probably start Sunday, which is when I do my weigh in.

My "plan" is to have about 1600 calories, 60 grams of protein, 150 fat and under 20 total (not net) carbs. I have about 30# to lose. Some days I have closer to 1200 and much less fat, but I keep the protein the same and very very few carbs.

today I was 1532 calories, 127.1 fat (79%), 4.2 carb (1%) and 69.6 protein (20%) (those darned spareribs!)

And thank you whoever gave us the idea to weigh the ribs first, and then eat and weigh the bones and subtract. Worked great!

When I was doing Atkins, I had to stop veggies and salads as they stalled me. Go figure. So, I have one or the other, or none.

I did 4 days of the Fat Fast and the first 2 days were "fun" to eat pure fat...lots of ways to do that too! But now I've been doing this HF/LC/MP plan and I feel so much better.

Thanks everyone on your thoughts on heart issues and saturated fat. I told her that the newest research said just what you have all said (to let me know I was correct) and, of course, she went nuts on me and said that she's never heard of ANY cardiologists who want their patients to touch saturated fat. I told her that there were really quite a few promoting this way of eating and the scientific research is there, but she just gave me "the look" that she is smart and I am dumb (she is a retired school teacher and truly thinks she knows everything!) We changed the subject. Yes, I have read Attia and "many others" because this is an issue that I want to be up to date on.

Buffy.....your craving for chocolate could be a magnesium deficiency! Do you take magnesium? Enough????

My "sweet craving" is satisfied with coconut oil, shredded unsweetened coconut and some SF Davinci flavorings...and sometimes a bit of butter in that too!!! :-) Either that or a late night of decaf tea with HWC....just bought some decaf chai today....so I can add MCT and HWC and have a fatty "treat".

[juliekaboolie]

I think today was a win compared to yesterday. More fat helped kill my hunger. We will see how my weight is tomorrow.

Calories: 1722
Fat: 152g
Protein: 72g
Carbs: 16g net

[shelley]

Originally Posted by juliekaboolie

I think today was a win compared to yesterday. More fat helped kill my hunger. We will see how my weight is tomorrow.

Calories: 1722
Fat: 152g
Protein: 72g
Carbs: 16g net

I am just "tickled" that you too have discovered that fat is the key to killing hunger, and also will be the key to turning around weight loss plateaus. (at least raising fat and lowering protein).

I'm really happy for you! (and the rest of us too!!!)

I just love this group!

[portcop01]

Morning all!glad to see all of you doing so good! This is a very good group always there to answer you??? When needed? I been stuck on 183-184 for a few days now.something going on..I think I'm doing to much protein and pork rinds guess I'll have to give them up for a few days!!plus I've ate out a couple of days..so for this next few days only eat what I cook!!its better any ways?

I tested my BG this am twice.first one said 112 then second said 127. I think my machine is not working or strips are bad.they are about 1 year old??

[betty301]

Originally Posted by amlyjo

I see there is another monster thread here in the challenge area where someone is doing a "modified fat fast". I got through a lot of the thread and wondered if any of you had (I think I see some names in common).

As far as I can tell the biggest difference is lowering the protein. It looks like she and the others call it "modified" because it's higher protein than a true Fat Fast, which you would only want to stay on for a short time because of muscle loss, right? How do you know how low is too low on the protein?

I tell you my goal right now is to get this danged fat off of me sooner rather than later. That modified fat fast thing is not looking so different from what we are doing here. What am I missing?

Looks like today I will hit:
calories 2,077
net carbs 22
fat 179
protein 64

I had a really wonderful and luxurious day with all that fat, so I hope this shows up on the scale!! Wish the carbs were even lower though, but I haven't really been able to be below 20-24 at all.

She started out by doing that without knowing that there was an actual way of doing NK. I told her of this thread and she also started reading the books(as have I) I started posting there first, but I'm more inclined to stick to the NK guidelines. What she is doing isn't all that different though

[betty301]

I passed out last night at around 8pm..went upstairs to lay down cause my back was hurting and fell right to sleep I guess. No desert for me, lol.

I took an average of calorie intake for the week and it's kind of low. I was going to use that number to stick to but I'm trying to aim for higher cals as long as I keep losing!

Since I am pushing 190 right now, my first goal is 170@25%BF(I'm roughly 31% right now)
sooo that gives me- 76-127 Protein to work with
I'm setting carbs at a net of 30
And 160 Fat grams; to give me a range between 1864-2068.

If I'm stalling then I'll adjust from there..but I think that is a nice starting point. Much higher cals than I've been suffering at in the past and NOT losing.



Can't wait to get my meter today!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by portcop01

Morning all!glad to see all of you doing so good! This is a very good group always there to answer you??? When needed? I been stuck on 183-184 for a few days now.something going on..I think I'm doing to much protein and pork rinds guess I'll have to give them up for a few days!!plus I've ate out a couple of days..so for this next few days only eat what I cook!!its better any ways?

I wouldn't worry about staying the same weight for a few days. But if you are tracking and not eating to your goals then making some changes might be helpful.

I tested my BG this am twice.first one said 112 then second said 127. I think my machine is not working or strips are bad.they are about 1 year old??

The strips definitely expire!

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone! I'm so happy that it's Saturday, and I have a busy one.

Yesterday my (maintenance) intake was:
Protein: 88.1 (16%)
Carbs: 24.9 (4%)
Fat: 205.6 (82%)
Alcohol: 0 (0%)
Calories: 2258
This morning:
Weight: 151.6 (up .8)
Ketones: 1.5
Blood Glucose: 85

I am up another .8 this morning but I am not surprised! I can feel TOM coming on--I am puffy. I was hungry last night and had some fat treats (mascarpone cheese, 2 fat bombs) which raised my fat and calories for the day. Surprisingly it did not seem to effect ketosis (I thought it might push it a bit higher?), I'm still at 1.5.

This morning is my body fat test. Perhaps not the greatest time to take this test while I'm retaining water. I can't eat before the test and I have kettlebell class right after. So I'll be eating breakfast within the 1 hour window after class.

How is everyone else doing??

[portcop01]

Thanks mom2 zeke..I just went and read jimmy blog. Sounds like he only ate some days twice with a snack? I no I need to eat more so today I'm going to work on it??

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by portcop01

Thanks mom2 zeke..I just went and read jimmy blog. Sounds like he only ate some days twice with a snack? I no I need to eat more so today I'm going to work on it??

Don't force yourself to eat. Just eat to your protein and carb goals and then fat until you're satisfied. I don't think there is any reason to eat beyond hunger and I actually think it can work against you. Energy balance is still the name of the game and ketosis helps to blunt hunger and get your body fat burning. But if you eat too much fat your body will happily use that for fuel rather than your body fat.

[portcop01]

Thanks

I think I'm going to do a 15 challeng.i will record all my food here if that's ok with you all.

Breakfast this am..
2 eggs cooked in co..1 tbs
Cup coffee with 1 tsp co.
Cal-312
Fat-29.7
Carb-2
Prot.-11
82% fat.....15% prot.....2% carb...

Weight 183.4

[betty301]

ok, I played around with the coconut muffins.
Basically you make it like your making cake batter..I'm trying to get just the right sweetness.
Also I added lemon extract..a nice taste for breakfast or anytime I guess

It made 10 mini muffins.

[nitenurse]

still adjusting

[Flavia]

Originally Posted by portcop01

Thanks

I think I'm going to do a 15 challeng.i will record all my food here if that's ok with you all.

Breakfast this am..
2 eggs cooked in co..1 tbs
Cup coffee with 1 tsp co.
Cal-312
Fat-29.7
Carb-2
Prot.-11
82% fat.....15% prot.....2% carb...

Weight 183.4

What's a 15 challenge???? 15 what????? 15lbs???? 15 days????

[Flavia]

When I had joined the other thread I didn't know about this one. Betty came on and told us about this thread already existing....I think both threads have their "valid ness?"
It's all good

[portcop01]

Sorry!,15 days. 15 lbs would be nice but not going to happen.i will be happy with a 7 lb lost.

[amlyjo]

Well. Interesting. I wound up at much, much higher calories yesterday due to the fat than I have been averaging for the last couple of weeks. Last week I was down at my recent lowest of 313, but then I cheated over the weekend (my son's birthday) and gained like 4 pounds that all week I could not shake. STUPID CHEAT! It was SO not worth it. I was also really retaining water. I couldn't tell so much in my mid-section as my ankles. Ugh. Like pregnant ankles. I do have trouble retaining water, but this was so mysterious. It's not a mystery at all when I look at the cheat I did. It explains the retaining water, the weight gain, the downward spiral to grumpy-land. Wow, I always heard about how bad the cheats are but ...whew. I have my own proof in my own body. I really can't think of any food that would make me want to go through that again right now.

Anyways, after finding this thread () and taking a day or so to get the numbers right, and having at least 2400 calories yesterday........... I woke up this morning to a little whoosh of almost 3 lbs. AND I recognize my ankles!!!

I am a VERY happy girl! Not only that but here in Central TX we got a lovely cool front!!! Happy, happy, joy, joy!

Will post my food plan later.

[3Kids4me]

Originally Posted by amlyjo

Well. Interesting. I wound up at much, much higher calories yesterday due to the fat than I have been averaging for the last couple of weeks. Last week I was down at my recent lowest of 313, but then I cheated over the weekend (my son's birthday) and gained like 4 pounds that all week I could not shake. STUPID CHEAT! It was SO not worth it. I was also really retaining water. I couldn't tell so much in my mid-section as my ankles. Ugh. Like pregnant ankles. I do have trouble retaining water, but this was so mysterious. It's not a mystery at all when I look at the cheat I did. It explains the retaining water, the weight gain, the downward spiral to grumpy-land. Wow, I always heard about how bad the cheats are but ...whew. I have my own proof in my own body. I really can't think of any food that would make me want to go through that again right now.

Anyways, after finding this thread () and taking a day or so to get the numbers right, and having at least 2400 calories yesterday........... I woke up this morning to a little whoosh of almost 3 lbs. AND I recognize my ankles!!!

I am a VERY happy girl! Not only that but here in Central TX we got a lovely cool front!!! Happy, happy, joy, joy!

Will post my food plan later.

Yay! Great job! Print this out to remind you next time the temptation to cheat rises up!

[3Kids4me]

My numbers yesterday were higher. And I'm pretty sure Papa John's hot wings are too carby and were too much protein for me in one sitting (I had 10). My BG last night was 90 2 hours after dinner and 86 before bed. So not *bad* but higher than it's been. Then for my run this morning I just felt a little less energetic and wondered if I didn't have as many ketones available for energy initially. Still. Got 3.1 miles in, that's the farthest I've gone since starting back up in August.

Yesterday:

Calories: 2,130
Carbs: 19
Fat: 179
Protein: 107

So the numbers were *okay* but the bulk of those carbs and protein happened at one meal and I think I'm too insulin resistant to eat that way. It's why intermittent fasting can be tricky with nutritional ketosis, if one big meal is the goal with that. I think that's what Dr. Attia has found with his experiments with IF.

Just some broth, butter, coffee, cream and CO so far this morning. Much, much fat. I'll test ketones again tomorrow to see if I'm past 1.6, which is where I was last time I tested.

[3Kids4me]

And after a full week without any artificial sweeteners, I'm just not sure what to think. The scale certainly hasn't rewarded the sacrifice. And I've never had headaches or other issues with aspartame. Splenda can mess with my stomach some, as can sugar alcohols. Stevia has never been a problem. But I do think I'm more craving free probably. It's been pretty easy to not think about sugar or treats since really getting focused on NK again. We'll see if I leave them out or add back in a few. It is a much tastier way to get in fat! Mix a little stevia with cream cheese and cocoa, yum!

--Jamie