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Old 09-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #991
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amlyjo View Post
Okay. I have the Phinney book (not the performance one) coming from the library soon, I hope. I went to the link Rebecca had posted, and you did also above, and figured out that for my goal weight of 171lbs (I'm 5'10") with I guess 25% BF, I would have a goal of no more than 77.8g protein, 38.9 carbs, and 194.5g fat.

Does that mean I should not go LOWER on the carbs or protein? I think I can eat the protein - I have been averaging closer to 60, but it won't take much to up it a little. Both my carbs and protein average lower than those numbers and I am still stalled. Just trying to figure it out.
The protein seems right, but the fat and carbs seem high. What are you basing the carb# and fat# on?
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:26 PM   #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliekaboolie View Post
Ok....my goals after calculating are:

Fat: 120 g
Protein: 65 g
Carbs: 20
Calories: 1420

Does this sound too low/high? I'm 5'6" and a medium build...athletic when I'm in shape and lean, tending towards muscular. Thanks!
That sounds about right to me.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:38 PM   #993
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I remember seeing that Scandinavians like butter spread on cheese
wow, this really works for me! I know what I'm having for dinner tonight, with a little celery on the side maybe thanks for the great idea!
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:03 PM   #994
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Well jeez!

I got the app and my calories added up quickly! I haven't calorie counted for a long time. Hope I don't get hungry. We are having salmon cakes tonight (bound with almond meal, egg, and onion, with a little dijon mustard fried in olive oil and butter) and I get 1 and that's it because it puts me slightly over my nutritional goals. Wow! I think this may be a reality check for me!!!
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:14 PM   #995
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Two JMHO comments:

Don't worry too much about calories to start. Get your protein and carbs dialed in, see if hunger takes care of calories. Don't necessarily *try* to keep calories particularly low. Dr. Phinney's podcast was pretty stern against really low calories and losing LBM or not getting enough essential fatty acids. Even though you do have to be aware that some of your energy does need to come from body fat, too low can kill a metabolism, even in ketosis.

If you want to really experience nutritional ketosis, I don't think a cheat meal can fit into that plan. It takes at least 2 weeks to full adapt, maybe longer for some people. So the full benefits of energy, clearheadedness, fat burning metabolism really need more than a week here and there with an interruption in between to be fully realized from what I've read.

I'm saying this from an exercise perspective particularly. I run and when I get keto-adapted it's awesome. I can go and go, despite being 30 lbs overweight still. But if I cheat or mess around with staying ketotic, then I lose those benefits and it takes me a couple weeks to adapt enough again to not go through energy bonks when working out. NOT worth it, IMHO.

Again, JMHO and all that.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:17 PM   #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
The protein seems right, but the fat and carbs seem high. What are you basing the carb# and fat# on?
Based on the ratios in Rebecca's post:
PROTEIN : FAT : CARBS
1 : 2.5 - 3.5 : 0.5

Actually your numbers were a tad easier to calculate, and came out slightly less. So based on your calcs: goal 170, BF 25%, 170x.25=42.5, 170-42.5=127.5, 127.5 x .6 = 76 my protein number.

Looking at the ratios above,
76 x 1= 76 protein
76 x 2.5 = 190 fat
76 x .5 = 38 carbs

I might be geeking out on the numbers too much, but honestly I just want to get it right. Remember, I am a lot bigger than you, so maybe that's why it looks odd?

I sure thought the carb number looked high too, but can it hurt to go lower than that magic number? Certainly doesn't seem so, however I am stalled....so.........
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:22 PM   #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Kids4me View Post
Two JMHO comments:

Don't worry too much about calories to start. Get your protein and carbs dialed in, see if hunger takes care of calories. Don't necessarily *try* to keep calories particularly low. Dr. Phinney's podcast was pretty stern against really low calories and losing LBM or not getting enough essential fatty acids. Even though you do have to be aware that some of your energy does need to come from body fat, too low can kill a metabolism, even in ketosis.

If you want to really experience nutritional ketosis, I don't think a cheat meal can fit into that plan. It takes at least 2 weeks to full adapt, maybe longer for some people. So the full benefits of energy, clearheadedness, fat burning metabolism really need more than a week here and there with an interruption in between to be fully realized from what I've read.

I'm saying this from an exercise perspective particularly. I run and when I get keto-adapted it's awesome. I can go and go, despite being 30 lbs overweight still. But if I cheat or mess around with staying ketotic, then I lose those benefits and it takes me a couple weeks to adapt enough again to not go through energy bonks when working out. NOT worth it, IMHO.

Again, JMHO and all that.
Okay...get out of the low calorie mindset. CHECK

On point two, I saw Dr. Phinney in an interview posted on the Dietdr.com website where he said that it's like climbing to the top of a pyramid. You work and work hard to get there, and once you are there it's not so hard to stay quite stable, but one "cheat" that knocks you back and you have to work and work to get back up again.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:23 PM   #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Kids4me View Post
Two JMHO comments:

Don't worry too much about calories to start. Get your protein and carbs dialed in, see if hunger takes care of calories. Don't necessarily *try* to keep calories particularly low. Dr. Phinney's podcast was pretty stern against really low calories and losing LBM or not getting enough essential fatty acids. Even though you do have to be aware that some of your energy does need to come from body fat, too low can kill a metabolism, even in ketosis.

If you want to really experience nutritional ketosis, I don't think a cheat meal can fit into that plan. It takes at least 2 weeks to full adapt, maybe longer for some people. So the full benefits of energy, clearheadedness, fat burning metabolism really need more than a week here and there with an interruption in between to be fully realized from what I've read.

I'm saying this from an exercise perspective particularly. I run and when I get keto-adapted it's awesome. I can go and go, despite being 30 lbs overweight still. But if I cheat or mess around with staying ketotic, then I lose those benefits and it takes me a couple weeks to adapt enough again to not go through energy bonks when working out. NOT worth it, IMHO.

Again, JMHO and all that.
I totally get what you're saying! I think I've been overeating in general and this is a wake up call for me. It isn't just the calories, I hit all nutritional goals, too! After eating my dinner I will be at 124g fat (goal 120g), 75g protein (goal 65g...this is the low end of the range), and 18g carbs (net carbs 4g and goal is 20 total carbs). Bummer. I was hoping to get to eat more! LOL!
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:42 PM   #999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Kids4me View Post
Two JMHO comments:

Don't worry too much about calories to start. Get your protein and carbs dialed in, see if hunger takes care of calories. Don't necessarily *try* to keep calories particularly low. Dr. Phinney's podcast was pretty stern against really low calories and losing LBM or not getting enough essential fatty acids. Even though you do have to be aware that some of your energy does need to come from body fat, too low can kill a metabolism, even in ketosis.

If you want to really experience nutritional ketosis, I don't think a cheat meal can fit into that plan. It takes at least 2 weeks to full adapt, maybe longer for some people. So the full benefits of energy, clearheadedness, fat burning metabolism really need more than a week here and there with an interruption in between to be fully realized from what I've read.

I'm saying this from an exercise perspective particularly. I run and when I get keto-adapted it's awesome. I can go and go, despite being 30 lbs overweight still. But if I cheat or mess around with staying ketotic, then I lose those benefits and it takes me a couple weeks to adapt enough again to not go through energy bonks when working out. NOT worth it, IMHO.

Again, JMHO and all that.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:42 PM   #1000
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Amy- what is your goal weight?
Let's it's 160 like me and you want to be 25% BF
your range would be 72-120Protein
Set your Carbs at whatever level works for you 50 or below..let's say 30 Carbs..

So far you are up to 408 cals if you stuck with the 72 protein and 30 carbs..so fat would have to make up the rest.
So let's say 160 Fat grams... totaled up that's roughly 1850 calories.

Protein= 4 cals per gram as well as Carbs
Fat= 9 cals per gram

Or you can start higher based on your current weight and a rough estimate of BF% and slowly adjust everything downwards as you shrink!!

Last edited by betty301; 09-06-2012 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:49 PM   #1001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amlyjo View Post
Based on the ratios in Rebecca's post:
PROTEIN : FAT : CARBS
1 : 2.5 - 3.5 : 0.5

Actually your numbers were a tad easier to calculate, and came out slightly less. So based on your calcs: goal 170, BF 25%, 170x.25=42.5, 170-42.5=127.5, 127.5 x .6 = 76 my protein number.

Looking at the ratios above,
76 x 1= 76 protein
76 x 2.5 = 190 fat
76 x .5 = 38 carbs

I might be geeking out on the numbers too much, but honestly I just want to get it right. Remember, I am a lot bigger than you, so maybe that's why it looks odd?

I sure thought the carb number looked high too, but can it hurt to go lower than that magic number? Certainly doesn't seem so, however I am stalled....so.........
I think this post is more helpful: Post 156 I wouldn't worry about that ratio. Just get the protein and carbs right and adjust the fat until you're satiated and losing.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:50 PM   #1002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betty301 View Post
Amy- what is your goal weight?
Let's it's 160 like me and you want to be 25% BF
your range would be 72-120Protein
Set your Carbs at whatever level works for you 50 or below..let's say 30 Carbs..

So far you are up to 408 cals if you stuck with the 72 protein and 30 carbs..so fat would have to make up the rest.
So let's say 160 Fat grams... totaled up that's roughly 1850 calories.

Protein= 4 cals per gram as well as Carbs
Fat= 9 cals per gram

Or you can start higher based on your current weight and a rough estimate of BF% and slowly adjust everything downwards as you shrink!!
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:50 PM   #1003
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Originally Posted by juliekaboolie View Post
I totally get what you're saying! I think I've been overeating in general and this is a wake up call for me. It isn't just the calories, I hit all nutritional goals, too! After eating my dinner I will be at 124g fat (goal 120g), 75g protein (goal 65g...this is the low end of the range), and 18g carbs (net carbs 4g and goal is 20 total carbs). Bummer. I was hoping to get to eat more! LOL!
Oh I can overeat too! Especially if artificial sweeteners are in the picture...put those in cream cheese and there I go!

That's about where my numbers are most days too. I don't restrict calories too much on purpose, but do come in around 1500-1600 calories. Which is about my BMR as best as I can figure it. But I do have days where I'm up around 1800 because appetite pushes me there. It's easy to overeat when you don't have full ketosis going to shut down that appetite. Especially with high fat foods.

I just know that as I get smaller, I'll have to drop some calories, and I want to be able to drop down to something still reasonably comfortable, KWIM?
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:54 PM   #1004
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Originally Posted by betty301 View Post
Amy- what is your goal weight?
Let's it's 160 like me and you want to be 25% BF
your range would be 72-120Protein
Set your Carbs at whatever level works for you 50 or below..let's say 30 Carbs..

So far you are up to 408 cals if you stuck with the 72 protein and 30 carbs..so fat would have to make up the rest.
So let's say 160 Fat grams... totaled up that's roughly 1850 calories.

Protein= 4 cals per gram as well as Carbs
Fat= 9 cals per gram

Or you can start higher based on your current weight and a rough estimate of BF% and slowly adjust everything downwards as you shrink!!
That's right in my range for protein and carbs too. I keep my fat a little lower, calories closer to 1600, but that's starting smaller.

I wouldn't start your protein at the lower end of your ratio, Amy, personally. I'd see if you *can* get into ketosis at 100g a day with lower carbs, say under 20g, if you can, then awesome. If not, then lowering protein may need to be an option. Maybe it's too much paleo/weight training influence on me, but I'm just not comfortable with "as little protein as necessary" to start. Like with calories, I want some place to lower if need by. And I do not want to lose muscle.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:54 PM   #1005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliekaboolie View Post
I totally get what you're saying! I think I've been overeating in general and this is a wake up call for me. It isn't just the calories, I hit all nutritional goals, too! After eating my dinner I will be at 124g fat (goal 120g), 75g protein (goal 65g...this is the low end of the range), and 18g carbs (net carbs 4g and goal is 20 total carbs). Bummer. I was hoping to get to eat more! LOL!
A lot of us have had to adjust when we started tracking! It takes a few days but you do start getting used to it. After doing this for a while some people have reported feeling too full to finish their day's worth of food. That has never happened to me, but I do feel satisfied.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:58 PM   #1006
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oh I didn't see your goal weight and BF% Amy-

since your starting at a higher weight I'd probably start out higher to give yourself room to adjust.

Maybe make 250 your first goal weight..not sure what your Bf% is now or what it would be at 250. Let's say 40?? soooo...

your range for protein would be 90-150
Carbs still at 30
Fat maybe at 170?
That's 2010 cals..plenty of room to adjust downward. what have you been eating lately? Are you losing?
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:51 PM   #1007
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Terry - thanks for pointing to the "taking blood" page in Bernstein. I have the book but haven't gone through it front to back yet! Are you on medication or able to manage BG through diet? My BGs were "normal" (well, not really but you know doctors..) until very recently. I'm hoping to manage through diet for as long as I can. (my Dad was diabetic and its rampant on his side of the family) I'm interested in any pointers you can share.
Sounds like you're getting your BG under control. I was borderline pre-diabetic, with fasting BG a little over 100. I had an oral glucose tolerance test, and passed that OK, so I've been working on my diet a bit. NK seems to help, since I'm now in the low 90's, with it sometimes dropping into the mid 80's.

Besides LC, eating less protein seems to help, too, as does getting better sleep. I've always been a night owl, and that got worse after I retired. After reading Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival by T.S.Wiley (recommended by Robb Wolf), I've been trying to hit the sack at 10pm and wake up naturally when the sun rises. That may have lowered my AM cortisol, which could have helped reduce my BG "dawn effect".

Keep clam,
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:59 PM   #1008
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Isn't salt substitute like Morton's Light Salt basically potassium? Can you use that to season your meat and veggies?
Thanks for reminding me of this. Looks like Morton Lite Salt has 350 mg per 1/4 tsp, along with 290 mg sodium and 40% dv of iodine. There's also Nu-Salt, from Cumberland Packing, which is nearly pure potassium chloride with 530 mg potassium in 1/6 tsp (which would be 795 mg in 1/4 tsp).

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Old 09-06-2012, 04:02 PM   #1009
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Quote:
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Sounds like you're getting your BG under control. I was borderline pre-diabetic, with fasting BG a little over 100. I had an oral glucose tolerance test, and passed that OK, so I've been working on my diet a bit. NK seems to help, since I'm now in the low 90's, with it sometimes dropping into the mid 80's.

Besides LC, eating less protein seems to help, too, as does getting better sleep. I've always been a night owl, and that got worse after I retired. After reading Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival by T.S.Wiley (recommended by Robb Wolf), I've been trying to hit the sack at 10pm and wake up naturally when the sun rises. That may have lowered my AM cortisol, which could have helped reduce my BG "dawn effect".

Keep clam,
Terry
Thanks, Terry, that's heartening, since I'm hoping to see eventual improvement in my pre-diabetic blood sugar levels. I need to work on my sleep patterns, too, since I easily slip into going to bed very late. I'll look into the Lights Out book.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:09 PM   #1010
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to all the newcomers! I'm still a newcomer myself so looking forward to learning along with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by betty301 View Post
I'm not sure what I will do. My thinking is that 1 free meal every couple weeks isn't going to do a lot of damage in the grand scheme of things.
Obviously we all have to figure out what works for us individually. I will just share that it has been a real eye opener for me using the ketone meter and also taking blood glucose readings. I at off plan on Sunday. My BG readings are still not back to where I was, and my ketones are still not back to the .5 level - Phinney/Volek say .5 - 5 is NK level. I was still only .4 today. I was 1.7 before my departure from plan. So....for me anyway, getting BACK into ketosis (at weight loss levels) and also getting my blood sugars back in line really takes way longer than I thought. No wonder I have struggled mightily since my departure a couple years ago from STRICT low carb with no off plan adventures at all. FWIW and YMMV of course!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pantograph View Post
Sounds like you're getting your BG under control. I was borderline pre-diabetic, with fasting BG a little over 100. I had an oral glucose tolerance test, and passed that OK, so I've been working on my diet a bit. NK seems to help, since I'm now in the low 90's, with it sometimes dropping into the mid 80's.

Besides LC, eating less protein seems to help, too, as does getting better sleep. I've always been a night owl, and that got worse after I retired. After reading Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival by T.S.Wiley (recommended by Robb Wolf), I've been trying to hit the sack at 10pm and wake up naturally when the sun rises. That may have lowered my AM cortisol, which could have helped reduce my BG "dawn effect".

Keep clam,
Terry
Thanks Terry. I'm glad to know NK has helped you get your FBG back into the 90s/80s. That's what I'm hoping for. I too have been working on the sleep thing. Mr. Doggy recently installed black out shades and we've eliminated any glowing things LOL (electical tape over the "red dot" on the TV, etc.) I'm also trying to not fall asleep with any noise (TV) going on - just pitch black. I really would like to nix the TV in the bedroom all together but am not quite there yet!! Sleep is improved since the blackout but still could be better. I'm hoping NK helps with that too somehow.

And yes - I will keep my clam thank you very much! (lol, whatever that clam business is about!)

Still OP here. Not a sugarcarby in sight. Not real hungry either despite a lot of stress today. YAY.

DG
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:41 PM   #1011
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ok, food for though and all that.



I may get the meter after all cause I like stuff like that and it would be cool to experiment.

my food for today:

while I was out Pork Grinds

a serving of pecans while I was waiting for food to cook.

chicken thigh(5oz)
cooked in ccn oil with a red bell pepper
2 oz cream cheese with 1 laughing cow

broccoli slaw w/2tbsps olive oil mayo

More pecans

Ccn oil with unsweetened cocoa and 2 tbsps PB

whew!

cals- 2033!
Protein- 70.3
Carbs- 33
Fiber- 12.7
Fat- 192
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:46 PM   #1012
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Looks good Betty
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:54 PM   #1013
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Betty looking good!!was that pork rinds??i have to stay a way from them I love them with hot sauce.i had 1.5 oz to dayTo many.

Here my # for today! BG this morning 109

Cal-1533
Fat-134.6 (77%)
Carbs-3.1 (1%)
protein -79.6 (22%).... I like to get that down a little my no, is 60-112 but I guess till I get back in full ketoeous again..

If I gain weight I no I can't eat pork rinds,!

I went to Zumba for first time did not do very good!! Could not keep up.i have a bad back so the jumping was to much.but I'm going to water aerobic 3 times a week! And walking.
Hope ever one is doing good.
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:01 PM   #1014
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yep pork rinds, sorry, lol.
I don't eat them all the time but they made a good emergency snack

I ordered my free meter! It says it takes 2-3 weeks??

There only $14 on Amazon and I can have it in like a day..I'll probably just do that.
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:02 PM   #1015
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I ordered mine also
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:09 PM   #1016
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I bought mine from Walgreens. Instant gratification!
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:11 PM   #1017
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Originally Posted by g3rmanchik View Post
Don't cook with MCT, u take it like that by the spoonful. Or I will put it on my salad or my meat....I have to use it with food cause it hurts my stomach. U basically use it like CO but no cooking with it
Thanks Christina...I had 1 TBSP this morning before my walk instead of coconut oil. No taste, no oily feel. Easy to get down. I like the idea of using it as salad dressing....I could add it to my home made mayo and a little vinegar and spices and that would be yummy!!!! I read that you do not use it for cooking (i.., no heat!) Thanks!
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:13 PM   #1018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb34 View Post
subbing to read everyone's experience. I have a "fat" tooth so this sounds like a plan I would love. Is anybody else a secret butter snacker? or not so secret?

Now, back to the beginning to start reading!
OH my gosh.....nobody I have ever known likes to eat butter as butter! I can eat it by the chunks (I get the Amish 2# rolls). I love butter!!!!! So, yes, I also have a fat tooth....love it!!!!
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:14 PM   #1019
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 42
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Stats: 222/178.8/170
WOE: Nutritional Ketosis
Start Date: Feb 2010 (Paleo)
A little slow getting this posted...

Yesterday my food consumption was:
Protein: 104.2 (20%)
Carbs: 41.2 (7%) (12.5 g of this was fiber)
Fat: 178.7 (73%)
Calories: 2,183 (Est. burn rate 3,035)

This morning:
Weight: 179.0 (down 0.4) (down 4 since starting NK Aug 30)
Ketones (urine): 15 mg/dl
Blood Glucose (fasting): 91

My Precision Xtra meter came yesterday, but the test strips are still off in the ozone.

Keep clam,
Terry
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:17 PM   #1020
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Originally Posted by betty301 View Post
I like the idea of this being in the 'other,' weight loss plans, because it IS!!

I asked this is another thread but...


How are you all going to handle special occasion food? Like Holidays, birthdays, nights out, traveling, vacations, or when you just want some ice cream or suuuushi!!!!!!

Tell me Jimmy doesn't eat some of his Moms Mashed potatos or stuffing on Thanksgiving
I have been eating SF, grain free, and low carb for over a year. Mashed potatoes are made from cauliflower with cream cheese, butter and cream, stuffing is a no no for me with gluten intolerance, and ice cream is easy with splenda (just eggs, HWC and splenda!) There are always "solutions" to most of the things you miss...truly there are.
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