Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?

[Flavia]

oh Iam also hypothyroid (75mg ) and was on wellbutrin 2x150mg but got rid of those because feel so much better on this plan....don't need them anymore....I also don't need my sleep meds anymore either...

[juliekaboolie]

Thanks, Christina! That helps a lot!!!

[shelley]

Welcome to all the new people joining us on this journey. We are all so individual and require different amounts of various foods/fat/proteins and it's always interesting to see what others are doing.

My goal for now is 60 grams protein, 150 fat and under 30 carbs (which is the easy part for me).

Yesterday I had:

1315 calories
111.9 fat (76%) low
14.4 carb (4%) typical
63.3 protein (20%)

So...a pretty good day. Ketostix was moderate this morning...yesterday I was gone all day so made sure I had a good breakfast before going...a shaker bottle filled with ice and 40% HWC...and 3/4 scoop of protein powder...that was lunch at 2 PM. Dinner was a nice salad with some big juicy shrimp in butter! Not bad for running around all day.

I picked up a bottle of MCT oil at the big health food store an hour away from me...now what do I do with it? ha ha

[amlyjo]

I'd like to join you all too! I have been attempting to read through this monster thread. I slowly got to page 5 or so and thought, okay already...SOLD!

I know I am extremely carb sensitive. I can't hardly get in to ketosis (according to the sticks). I have A LOT to lose, and have been on JUDDD, then Atkins now for 8 weeks. I have lost almost 20 lbs, but most of that was right at first. Then this last weekend I had a slice of my son's ice cream cake, which lead to some other carby things, and BAMMO...up 4 lbs this week that I can not shake. Lesson learned big time. I was feeling discouraged after being stalled for 2 weeks so I thought, screw it, but I know that is not the answer.

I have done the math on what I should be eating based on some formulas shared in this thread. Looks like 78 g protein, 194g fat () and 39 g carbs. I doubt very seriously I can get my fat that high, but I will try to keep the ratios close to that. Problem is that I DO NOT lose if my calories are too high. Even over 1600, and I am a 300lb person. It kills me. The fat just will not budge. So I am going to shoot for no more than 1400 per day and see how I do.

I am also hypothyroid (found this thread from Kristin's sig and post in the thyroid area - thank you!). I am on 2.5 grains of Armour/day but I don't know that I am quite optimized yet. Heading in for blood work this week.

Hoping this change (HF-LC-MP) will be the answer for me!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by juliekaboolie

Hi!!

How difficult is it to eat lower calorie and is it something I should be worrying about right now when I have roughly 50lbs to lose? I think my goal is 50g of protein which is on the lowish side. I am very insulin resistant and take some medications that make weight loss difficult (beta blocker and Paxil). I still think I can lose weight despite these meds, tho. Maybe counting calories WOULD be a good idea considering the meds? I want to keep my fat around 80% and carbs around 5% with protein at 15%. I may end up tweaking those numbers down the road.

So far my breakfast consisted of: 1 mug of coffee w/3 tbsp HWC and 1 tbsp coconut oil so this puts me at: 32g fat, 0.28 protein, and 272 calories, 0 carbs.

Julie,
One of the things that we have learned from reading the Phinney/Volek books and Dr. Phinney's interview with Jimmy Moore is that it is very important to get the right absolute gram amount of protein and carbs and then vary your fat grams depending on your goals. Too little protein and you will lose muscle mass, too much and you will induce gluconeogenesis and drop out of ketosis. The percentages are interesting, but your daily intake should not be based on percentages but upon grams of macronutrients. So if you want to try lowering overall calories keep your protein and carbs the same and lower fat grams. If you are in ketosis this should help you access your body fat for fuel.

You really should do the calculation based on your goal weight and goal BF% to get a minimum protein amount. Once you have that number and your carb goal you can use Rebecca's calculator linked to in post 441 here to figure out your daily requirements.

[amlyjo]

Jamie (3kids4me), didn't I read that you are a home schooler? I am! I have 2 kids that I home school - oldest dd is in 7th grade and ds is in 2nd grade.

[3Kids4me]

Originally Posted by amlyjo

Jamie (3kids4me), didn't I read that you are a home schooler? I am! I have 2 kids that I home school - oldest dd is in 7th grade and ds is in 2nd grade.

I am indeed! I have a 6th grader (ds), 5th grader (dd), 3rd grader (dd) and tag-along 3.5 year old (dd)

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by amlyjo

I'd like to join you all too! I have been attempting to read through this monster thread. I slowly got to page 5 or so and thought, okay already...SOLD!

I know I am extremely carb sensitive. I can't hardly get in to ketosis (according to the sticks). I have A LOT to lose, and have been on JUDDD, then Atkins now for 8 weeks. I have lost almost 20 lbs, but most of that was right at first. Then this last weekend I had a slice of my son's ice cream cake, which lead to some other carby things, and BAMMO...up 4 lbs this week that I can not shake. Lesson learned big time. I was feeling discouraged after being stalled for 2 weeks so I thought, screw it, but I know that is not the answer.

I have done the math on what I should be eating based on some formulas shared in this thread. Looks like 78 g protein, 194g fat () and 39 g carbs. I doubt very seriously I can get my fat that high, but I will try to keep the ratios close to that. Problem is that I DO NOT lose if my calories are too high. Even over 1600, and I am a 300lb person. It kills me. The fat just will not budge. So I am going to shoot for no more than 1400 per day and see how I do.

I am also hypothyroid (found this thread from Kristin's sig and post in the thyroid area - thank you!). I am on 2.5 grains of Armour/day but I don't know that I am quite optimized yet. Heading in for blood work this week.

Hoping this change (HF-LC-MP) will be the answer for me!

amlyjo! Glad to have you here! I hope that NK will help you to start losing again.

Please read my last post--you do not need to force fat or have a certain high percentage every day. The Phinney/Volek books say 65%-85% fat depending on your goals. Your protein and carbs are held steady and your fat amount will vary depending on satiety and goals. The point is to access your body fat for some of your daily requirements.

[3Kids4me]

It looks like there are several of us that are 5'6" and about 192-194 right now.

My goal is 160-165 if I can maintain or gain LBM. If I have that at 120-125 lbs, which is close to what I think it is right now, then I should be 25% BF at 160 lbs and that seems like a great fitness level to shoot for.

I'm nervous to take protein too low while calories are lower, I do think LBM can be lost, even if ketosis is somewhat protective. So the goal is to find the sweet spot for ketosis *and* enough protein to spare muscle when calories are below maintenance. Based on Phinney/Volek my protein range for my goal weight and LBM is 81-109, if I do the 1.5-2x LBM kg. (which is what Phinney mentioned in his podcast) If I do .6-1 LBM lb then it's 72-120, quite a big broader range. Basically I shoot for 90-100 g. of protein, since I do resistance workouts 3 times a week. I'm in pretty good ketosis right now with that, but it can be a struggle to eat that much just in terms of appetite.

--Jamie

[Flavia]

Originally Posted by shelley

Welcome to all the new people joining us on this journey. We are all so individual and require different amounts of various foods/fat/proteins and it's always interesting to see what others are doing.

My goal for now is 60 grams protein, 150 fat and under 30 carbs (which is the easy part for me).

Yesterday I had:

1315 calories
111.9 fat (76%) low
14.4 carb (4%) typical
63.3 protein (20%)

So...a pretty good day. Ketostix was moderate this morning...yesterday I was gone all day so made sure I had a good breakfast before going...a shaker bottle filled with ice and 40% HWC...and 3/4 scoop of protein powder...that was lunch at 2 PM. Dinner was a nice salad with some big juicy shrimp in butter! Not bad for running around all day.

I picked up a bottle of MCT oil at the big health food store an hour away from me...now what do I do with it? ha ha

Don't cook with MCT, u take it like that by the spoonful. Or I will put it on my salad or my meat....I have to use it with food cause it hurts my stomach. U basically use it like CO but no cooking with it

[Flavia]

Originally Posted by 3Kids4me

It looks like there are several of us that are 5'6" and about 192-194 right now.

My goal is 160-165 if I can maintain or gain LBM. If I have that at 120-125 lbs, which is close to what I think it is right now, then I should be 25% BF at 160 lbs and that seems like a great fitness level to shoot for.

I'm nervous to take protein too low while calories are lower, I do think LBM can be lost, even if ketosis is somewhat protective. So the goal is to find the sweet spot for ketosis *and* enough protein to spare muscle when calories are below maintenance. Based on Phinney/Volek my protein range for my goal weight and LBM is 81-109, if I do the 1.5-2x LBM kg. (which is what Phinney mentioned in his podcast) If I do .6-1 LBM lb then it's 72-120, quite a big broader range. Basically I shoot for 90-100 g. of protein, since I do resistance workouts 3 times a week. I'm in pretty good ketosis right now with that, but it can be a struggle to eat that much just in terms of appetite.

--Jamie

If I lower my cals I stall or even gain weight.....my bod does everything backwards.....also when ever I start exercising I gain weight....so I wont start till I am at least down to 160-150

[Deb34]

subbing to read everyone's experience. I have a "fat" tooth so this sounds like a plan I would love. Is anybody else a secret butter snacker? or not so secret?

Now, back to the beginning to start reading!

[mom2zeke]

Hi Everyone! I had a little time on my hands so I went through the thread to try and highlight some helpful information and posts for newbies and oldsters alike! I am also putting a link to this in the bottom of my signature so I can find it again. Thanks everyone for the great information you've posted so far. I'm sure I missed important stuff--but it's a start!

Nutritional Ketosis Challenge Thread Information and Posts of Interest

Phinney/Volek Books: The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance.

Listen to Dr. Phinney’s 8/18/12 podcast interview with Jimmy Moore on Long-Term Stalls

Ketone Meter and Strips including information on how to get a free meter: Ketone Meters
How to figure out goal weight and protein goals: Weight and Protein Goals

Why we use absolute Values (not percentages) and Protein/Carb/Fat Calculator: Absolute Values & Protein/Carb/Fat Calculator

Fat Bombs: Fat Bombs

How to use lancet and get enough blood for meter: Using a Lancet 1
Using a Lancet 2

Why urine ketone testing isn’t a good as blood testing: Ketone vs. Blood testing

If you’re struggling to get into NK: Strategies if you're struggling

NK FAQ Draft: NK FAQ (First Draft)

[svenskamae]

I was wondering if we could request that "Nutritional Ketosis" could be a separate area in the "Weight loss plans" area. There are lots of people interested in this, and there's an easier layout for posting in that format (FAQ, topic-based threads) instead of a single huge challenge thread to go through. Kristn, as the person who started this thread, would you feel comfortable suggesting this to the board moderators? Would you like others of us to suggest this to the mods?

There's currently nothing being posted under "Other Plans" and there aren't a lot of posts for some of the recognized plans (e.g., Protein Power), so I think a good case could be made for this. What do other's think?

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by Deb34

subbing to read everyone's experience. I have a "fat" tooth so this sounds like a plan I would love. Is anybody else a secret butter snacker? or not so secret?

Now, back to the beginning to start reading!

In traditional British cuisine, spreading celery or radishes with good butter is considered a "savory" food, so consider your butter eating in a good tradition. I've been known to eat grassfed butter on celery, myself, to get more fat into my diet.

[Flavia]

Originally Posted by Deb34

subbing to read everyone's experience. I have a "fat" tooth so this sounds like a plan I would love. Is anybody else a secret butter snacker? or not so secret?

Now, back to the beginning to start reading!

I have a huge fat tooth always have....love butter, sour cream, mayo, nut butters....u name it....I will eat it

[3Kids4me]

Originally Posted by Deb34

subbing to read everyone's experience. I have a "fat" tooth so this sounds like a plan I would love. Is anybody else a secret butter snacker? or not so secret?

Now, back to the beginning to start reading!

I remember seeing that Scandinavians like butter spread on cheese. Works for me! (Only Kerrygold grassfed though, it's SO good!)

[betty301]

I like the idea of this being in the 'other,' weight loss plans, because it IS!!

I asked this is another thread but...


How are you all going to handle special occasion food? Like Holidays, birthdays, nights out, traveling, vacations, or when you just want some ice cream or suuuushi!!!!!!

Tell me Jimmy doesn't eat some of his Moms Mashed potatos or stuffing on Thanksgiving

[mom2zeke]

I was wondering if we could request that "Nutritional Ketosis" could be a separate area in the "Weight loss plans" area. There are lots of people interested in this, and there's an easier layout for posting in that format (FAQ, topic-based threads) instead of a single huge challenge thread to go through. Kristn, as the person who started this thread, would you feel comfortable suggesting this to the board moderators? Would you like others of us to suggest this to the mods?

There's currently nothing being posted under "Other Plans" and there aren't a lot of posts for some of the recognized plans (e.g., Protein Power), so I think a good case could be made for this. What do other's think?

I'm open to it, I just wouldn't want to get lost over there. The "Other Plans" doesn't offer any advantage to the challenge board. But if we had our own separate area? Maybe...I'd be interested to hear what others think.

I've toyed with the idea of starting a whole new thread (or maybe a monthly thread). Once we have a good FAQ and/or my links page is cleaned up we could start the thread with those two things. That way the thread wouldn't seem so overwhelming.

And svenskamae--how did your nutritionist appointment go?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by betty301

I like the idea of this being in the 'other,' weight loss plans, because it IS!!

I asked this is another thread but...


How are you all going to handle special occasion food? Like Holidays, birthdays, nights out, traveling, vacations, or when you just want some ice cream or suuuushi!!!!!!

Tell me Jimmy doesn't eat some of his Moms Mashed potatos or stuffing on Thanksgiving

I very rarely go off-plan. Once a year on my birthday I give myself permission to eat as much as I'd like of whatever I want for one meal. It's usually this amazing Chinese restaurant and chocolate cake and ice cream afterwards.

Other than that I try to stick as closely to plan as possible. I love LC foods so it really isn't a problem for me. I have holiday recipes that I use, but don't indulge in high-carb foods. I'm weird I guess. I do find that if I give myself permission "just this once" there start becoming more "just this once" occasions. My strategy has always been to find the LC alternative at whatever occasion or function I'm at.

We vacation every year in Hawaii (only one month until we leave ) and what we usually do is:
1. Rent a vacation place with a kitchen and grill (condo, house)
2. Buy local produce, meat, fish, eggs, etc.
2. Prepare most of our own food
3. Have one special night out

In Hawaii I allow myself some more fruit than I usually would--but not unlimited amounts. We like to come home from a day at the beach and sit out on the lanai and grill.

YMMV.

[betty301]

gotcha, makes sense.

I'm not sure what I will do. My thinking is that 1 free meal every couple weeks isn't going to do a lot of damage in the grand scheme of things.

And all the yummy delicious food in Hawaii...mmmmmm

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by betty301

gotcha, makes sense.

I'm not sure what I will do. My thinking is that 1 free meal every couple weeks isn't going to do a lot of damage in the grand scheme of things.

Everyone is an individual and you have to find what works for you. That's the nice thing about the meter, if you have a free meal or eat off-plan you can measure whether it knocks you out of ketosis and how long it takes to get back.

[juliekaboolie]

Originally Posted by Deb34

subbing to read everyone's experience. I have a "fat" tooth so this sounds like a plan I would love. Is anybody else a secret butter snacker? or not so secret?

Now, back to the beginning to start reading!

I'm a HUGE fan of butter! I love it!! I am going to try the butter and cheese idea....that sounds so yummy. I buy Kerrygold butter and, when in season, Organic Pastures pastured butter which is from grassfed cows and has 84% butterfat. It's my favorite!! I also have always had a fat tooth...it's just that I used to combine it with carbs which is so bad for you. Now, I just indulge my fat tooth without carbs, and that makes me happy. Welcome! I'm new, too!

[portcop01]

What is your comment on pork rinds I love them?

[Flavia]

I had pork rinds one time with some kinda vinegar sauce and I thru up all night....never again (sorry tmi i know)

Also Kristn, I thought it would be cool to make a place where u put all the info by itself and then a monthly thread for ppl to chat????
Idk, that just sounds logical to me

[portcop01]

Has any one ever stalled from them!

[betty301]

only one way to find out!

[portcop01]

Betty!!!good answer!!

[amlyjo]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

amlyjo! Glad to have you here! I hope that NK will help you to start losing again.

Please read my last post--you do not need to force fat or have a certain high percentage every day. The Phinney/Volek books say 65%-85% fat depending on your goals. Your protein and carbs are held steady and your fat amount will vary depending on satiety and goals. The point is to access your body fat for some of your daily requirements.

Okay. I have the Phinney book (not the performance one) coming from the library soon, I hope. I went to the link Rebecca had posted, and you did also above, and figured out that for my goal weight of 171lbs (I'm 5'10") with I guess 25% BF, I would have a goal of no more than 77.8g protein, 38.9 carbs, and 194.5g fat.

Does that mean I should not go LOWER on the carbs or protein? I think I can eat the protein - I have been averaging closer to 60, but it won't take much to up it a little. Both my carbs and protein average lower than those numbers and I am still stalled. Just trying to figure it out.

[juliekaboolie]

Ok....my goals after calculating are:

Fat: 120 g
Protein: 65 g
Carbs: 20
Calories: 1420

Does this sound too low/high? I'm 5'6" and a medium build...athletic when I'm in shape and lean, tending towards muscular. Thanks!