Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Kristn, Congrats on hitting goal!

Thanks! It's sinking in today.

I enjoyed eating full calories yesterday. Boy, I sure was hungry!

Today is my first day of upping my food amounts. I'm going slowly, but already loved my breakfast!

Are you testing for ketones?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Ketones read .5 this morning so things seem to be moving in the right direction. I'm wondering how my abnormal BGs have been affecting things. The important thing I guess is that BG is moving in the right direction too. My fasting was 98 today after being in the low 100s for the last several many days. I hope to see continued improvement there. My later day BGs are not such a big concern as these morning readings. I hope I am catching this in time to get it turned around with diet/exercise.

Yeah! .5 is the lowest threshold for nutritional ketosis!!

I think that your BG is telling you something! Those 90-100 grams of protein that you were eating weren't doing you any favors. There is a nutritional ketosis thread on the Diabetes Forum ("Using a Ketone Meter to do a Ketogenic Diet") where people are really seeing improvements in their BG, but not so much in their weight. I find it interesting to see how others are doing nutritional ketosis, but I don't seem to have diabetes or even pre-diabetes, so I don't post there.

Good luck with your eating today! You can do this!

[clackley]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Yeah! .5 is the lowest threshold for nutritional ketosis!!

I think that your BG is telling you something! Those 90-100 grams of protein that you were eating weren't doing you any favors. There is a nutritional ketosis thread on the Diabetes Forum ("Using a Ketone Meter to do a Ketogenic Diet") where people are really seeing improvements in their BG, but not so much in their weight. I find it interesting to see how others are doing nutritional ketosis, but I don't seem to have diabetes or even pre-diabetes, so I don't post there.

Good luck with your eating today! You can do this!

Are they restricting protein or just doing low carb?

[Doggygirl]

Kristn thanks for the heads up about that thread in the Diabetes forum. I'm going to check it out. I'm not sure if my BGs are "bad enough" right now to even get a pre-diabetes "official" diagnosis. My doctor has continually told me "don't worry!!" about fasting BGs in the 90s but I'm coming to learn that when 83 is a truly normal BG, 90 something is just "moving to the danger zone." I don't want to die the same way my Dad just did if I can help it. If I don't lose another pound, but my health markers improve then all this is worth it. (I am just barely under the wire in the "healthy BMI" range for my height, although I am NOT "large boned" nor "muscular" so I want to get rid of this fluff if I can LOL!)

I'm so excited to hear how your maintenance journey goes! Sounds like you have a well considered plan.

DG

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by clackley

Are they restricting protein or just doing low carb?

They are working on a "ketogenic ratio" to get blood ketones in the .5-3 (or higher) range. There does not seem to be much restriction of fat (or energy input, or calories...). But it's not just LC.

There's good information there about getting into nutritional ketosis if one is struggling.

My experience so far has been that you need to get the protein and carb grams correct and then play with the fat until you get to a place where you're losing.

The more I think about the interview with Dr. Phinney, the more I can see the issues that I was having. There's so much there to think about!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Kristn thanks for the heads up about that thread in the Diabetes forum. I'm going to check it out. I'm not sure if my BGs are "bad enough" right now to even get a pre-diabetes "official" diagnosis. My doctor has continually told me "don't worry!!" about fasting BGs in the 90s but I'm coming to learn that when 83 is a truly normal BG, 90 something is just "moving to the danger zone." I don't want to die the same way my Dad just did if I can help it. If I don't lose another pound, but my health markers improve then all this is worth it. (I am just barely under the wire in the "healthy BMI" range for my height, although I am NOT "large boned" nor "muscular" so I want to get rid of this fluff if I can LOL!)

I'm so excited to hear how your maintenance journey goes! Sounds like you have a well considered plan.

DG

I think the thread is worth a read through--if you have the time! It may be longer that this one.

I wish I knew more about pre-diabetes. The last time my DH had his fasting BG done it was 103 (mine has always been in the 80s). I expressed my concern, but his doctor didn't seem worried. He doesn't stick to LC as strictly as I do, but since I've started all of this his 38 pants have gotten loose. We went to replace them and he needs a 34. Men!!

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

I hadn't seen that one but just went and read it. Congratulations on your professional writing opportunity! I like your first article.

Thanks! I just need time to fit my writing into my busy schedule. I just started a new job and it is taking a lot of my time. I now have three part time jobs.

Ketones read .5 this morning so things seem to be moving in the right direction. I'm wondering how my abnormal BGs have been affecting things. The important thing I guess is that BG is moving in the right direction too. My fasting was 98 today after being in the low 100s for the last several many days. I hope to see continued improvement there. My later day BGs are not such a big concern as these morning readings. I hope I am catching this in time to get it turned around with diet/exercise.

It certainly sounds like things are moving forward for you, based on your readings.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

The last time my DH had his fasting BG done it was 103 (mine has always been in the 80s). I expressed my concern, but his doctor didn't seem worried.

Hmmm... I wonder if his lack of worry was due to the fact that he gets his information about what is normal blood glucose from the drug manufacturers who are selling insulin. You know, the ones who say to eat what you want and then just cover it with insulin...

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!! Today is officially my first day of maintenance. Yesterday I ate as normal and this morning my weight was down .8 to 149.2. I think I'm in my "losing week" right now (between ovulation and TOM) which accounts for the rapid drop in weight. By next week (TOM) I expect to see the scale move up a bit more.

I find this WOE pretty easy. It's nice to add in a bit more food, but I don't feel like I was starving. Mid morning and mid afternoon are the hardest for me. Hopefully with a bit more food I will find those hunger spots dissipating.

Kettlebell class was last night and I signed up for the dunk tank on 9/8. I'm actually looking forward to seeing what it has to say about my body comp. I noticed on the calculator that Rebecca posted my BF% looks like it's going up. Mostly because I am losing weight in my hips and not my waist. I think this may be a problem with the measurements and body type. I want to lose weight in my hips and thighs!

How is everyone else doing?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

Hmmm... I wonder if his lack of worry was due to the fact that he gets his information about what is normal blood glucose from the drug manufacturers who are selling insulin. You know, the ones who say to eat what you want and then just cover it with insulin...

His doctor is the holistic type, she usually suggests anything but drugs. I guess she looked at everything else and concluded that it might just be an anomaly.

I think I might try to get him to use my BG meter to chart his am BG. If he's still getting high readings that might just be enough to get him to tighten up his diet.

[RebeccaLatham]

This morning I am a happy fat burner. My body fat percentage hit a new low since starting NK, down from 37.2% to 32.3% this morning. Pounds of body fat hit a new low, starting at 54.8 and now being 45.1, a loss of 9.7 pounds.

As of this morning, I only have 4.3 pounds of body fat to lose and only 0.7 pounds of lean mass to gain.

I am seriously considering getting my testosterone implant again and starting my weight lifting again. At one point (before I tore my rotator cuff), my lean body mass was 101.1 pounds, Today it is only 94.5. So I know that I have the potential to gain at least 6.6 more pounds of muscle. I would like to do that.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

This morning I am a happy fat burner. My body fat percentage hit a new low since starting NK, down from 37.2% to 32.3% this morning. Pounds of body fat hit a new low, starting at 54.8 and now being 45.1, a loss of 9.7 pounds.

As of this morning, I only have 4.3 pounds of body fat to lose and only 0.7 pounds of lean mass to gain.

I am seriously considering getting my testosterone implant again and starting my weight lifting again. At one point (before I tore my rotator cuff), my lean body mass was 101.1 pounds, Today it is only 94.5. So I know that I have the potential to gain at least 6.6 more pounds of muscle. I would like to do that.

Yeah Rebecca!! You are so close now!!

I think getting back to testosterone and weight lifting sounds like a great idea.

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I think the thread is worth a read through--if you have the time! It may be longer that this one.

I wish I knew more about pre-diabetes. The last time my DH had his fasting BG done it was 103 (mine has always been in the 80s). I expressed my concern, but his doctor didn't seem worried. He doesn't stick to LC as strictly as I do, but since I've started all of this his 38 pants have gotten loose. We went to replace them and he needs a 34. Men!!

Congratulations on hitting your goal, Kristn! I'm glad you will be staying with us on this thread as you work on maintenance.

My fasting BG has tested at 105 (in May) and 103 (today), even after months of doing pretty strict low carb (net carbs in the 20s). So there's no guarantee that doing lowcarb will reduce fasting BG levels for everyone. Doctors and nurses don't seem to worry much about anything in the 100s, and to accept over 125 as the diabetic tipping point where you might want to actually do anything.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by svenskamae

Congratulations on hitting your goal, Kristn! I'm glad you will be staying with us on this thread as you work on maintenance.

Thanks! I still feel like I don't know anything about how to maintain this weight, I really hope the meter and the testing are part of the key to success.

My fasting BG has tested at 105 (in May) and 103 (today), even after months of doing pretty strict low carb (net carbs in the 20s). So there's no guarantee that doing lowcarb will reduce fasting BG levels for everyone. Doctors and nurses don't seem to worry much about anything in the 100s, and to accept over 125 as the diabetic tipping point where you might want to actually do anything.

Thanks for the information--this is really helpful!

[Doggygirl]

Kirstn, I have found the Blood Sugar 101 site to be very informative and that blog is referenced a lot by other people - people pointing to it as a good source of basic info about blood sugars.

Dr. Bernstein was a pioneer in terms of the idea that with or without medications/insulin, blood glucose CAN and SHOULD be managed within a very tight, normal range. While the ranges that doctors consider acceptable appear to have gotten lower over time (apparently it wasn't long ago when a fasting below 120 was considered "normal") he and his patients have proven that with a tightly controlled diet and whatever meds might be necessary beyond just diet & exercise, BG can be managed to a point where organ damage is not occuring.

If a truly normal persons blood glucose NEVER goes over 100, even after a carbacious meal, and it IS possible to manage BG in the normal range, then I don't like seeing my own fasting BG over 100.

This is all new to me and maybe I'm overly optimistic. But I'm not too happy with my doc continually telling me "you are not diabetic you have nothing to worry about" when clearly I've got some early warning signs going on.

The problem with diabetes is the sneaky nature of it. By the time a person has really obvious symptoms, a lot of damage has already occured. I'm not going to fall for the mainstream big pharma induced doctor training on this one any more than I am willing to follow their dietary recommendations.

[/rant off]

I hope your husband will consider things a little more fully! On that other point, I hate when the men lose weight on our diets when they are not even following them!

DG

[Doggygirl]

Oh - just a quick comment on the Blood Sugar 101 site. The diet suggestions are not for a ketogenic diet. So of course the calculator for protein/fat/carb ratios on the site would be useless for anyone trying to tackle the problem via a ketogenic diet. She promotes "low carb" but not ketogenic low. This other info about BG is what I have found so educational.

DG

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Kirstn, I have found the Blood Sugar 101 site to be very informative and that blog is referenced a lot by other people - people pointing to it as a good source of basic info about blood sugars.

Dr. Bernstein was a pioneer in terms of the idea that with or without medications/insulin, blood glucose CAN and SHOULD be managed within a very tight, normal range. While the ranges that doctors consider acceptable appear to have gotten lower over time (apparently it wasn't long ago when a fasting below 120 was considered "normal") he and his patients have proven that with a tightly controlled diet and whatever meds might be necessary beyond just diet & exercise, BG can be managed to a point where organ damage is not occuring.

If a truly normal persons blood glucose NEVER goes over 100, even after a carbacious meal, and it IS possible to manage BG in the normal range, then I don't like seeing my own fasting BG over 100.

This is all new to me and maybe I'm overly optimistic. But I'm not too happy with my doc continually telling me "you are not diabetic you have nothing to worry about" when clearly I've got some early warning signs going on.

The problem with diabetes is the sneaky nature of it. By the time a person has really obvious symptoms, a lot of damage has already occured. I'm not going to fall for the mainstream big pharma induced doctor training on this one any more than I am willing to follow their dietary recommendations.

[/rant off]

I hope your husband will consider things a little more fully! On that other point, I hate when the men lose weight on our diets when they are not even following them!

DG

Thanks for the information! It's very helpful.

When I started this WOL in 2001 my DH at the time lost 5 pounds--and he didn't have scrap of fat to lose!! Current DH is a little more meaty--but it's still a wonder that they can lose so easily.

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Yeah! .5 is the lowest threshold for nutritional ketosis!!

There is a nutritional ketosis thread on the Diabetes Forum ("Using a Ketone Meter to do a Ketogenic Diet") where people are really seeing improvements in their BG, but not so much in their weight. !

I can't seem to find that thread on the diabetes forum, can you help me find it? I need to learn more about using this as a diabetic. Thanks so much

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

I can't seem to find that thread on the diabetes forum, can you help me find it? I need to learn more about using this as a diabetic. Thanks so much

Hi Buffy45!

You can Google: Diabetes Forum "Using a Ketone Meter to do a Ketogenic Diet"

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

I can't seem to find that thread on the diabetes forum, can you help me find it? I need to learn more about using this as a diabetic. Thanks so much

Buffy, it's a really interesting thread - second only in interestingness to this one. (thanks again Kristn!)

I'm finding the ketogenic ratio stuff interesting. Anyone here decide to track that info?

DG

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Buffy, it's a really interesting thread - second only in interestingness to this one. (thanks again Kristn!)

I'm finding the ketogenic ratio stuff interesting. Anyone here decide to track that info?

DG

I just downloaded it and popped my weight loss data into it. Lowered fat calories lowers the ratio I can see. I'm interested to see how my upping the fat is going to do...but it's complicated by my losing the TOM water weight...

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Buffy, it's a really interesting thread - second only in interestingness to this one. (thanks again Kristn!)

I'm finding the ketogenic ratio stuff interesting. Anyone here decide to track that info?

DG

I have not bothered to track it. Since I was consistently testing in ketosis it didn't seem necessary.

[Buffy45]

Thank you, I was looking for it on our diabetes forum here, duh??? LOL

[Zyllah]

Morning Everyone,

Sorry for the break. Anyway no workout yesterday, lots of errands though. Weight is holding steady although I'm having a really hard time with the eating. I don't know if its a psychological thing or what but I'm eating more than I usually do and I never quite feel satisfied. I'm just curious what all you have been eating? Also Sunday night I did something I've been avoiding and tried on a bunch of my clothes. Now I'm a SAHM so I pretty much live in workout clothes on a day to day basis...this was my nicer stuff. Hardly anything fit. I didn't try on everything but wow I think of the things I did try on only 2 dresses fit...a few shirts. I found this oddly depressing I like those clothes. Anyway I decided for a few items that I really love when I'm done losing I'm just going to have them altered. Still...I should have been ecstatic. Anyway my dishwasher needs service and I have to get some stuff for my kids so after that we'll see if I can swing ketone strips. So I wrote that part with slight edits yesterday morning and the day was kind of a series of misadventures however I did discover that I can wear a size 6 pant. I tried on two different pants/different brands to be sure too. I did not buy them since I'm not sure if I'm done yet or what and they were beyond my comfort zone price wise for temp clothes. I did buy some shirts though and they were size SM.

Kristn: That's so amazing you reached your goal! I think you're right but as you said a lot of docs don't know how or don't care. I have thyroid issues... so it's been a real struggle to get my dosage right. Leptin sounds awesome but as you said not going to be on the market anytime soon. I also looked up around where we'll be moving and found a few possibilities. That's awesome since it gives me a short list of doctors to try Also you're right about the percentages although I lost my last five pounds not worrying too much about the protein count. Now adding avocado in to try to and up my fat ratio...I think that's where the added calories are coming from. I did get the low carb performance book in case that has anything useful for me since I do workout quite a bit. Also there does need to be a book about maintenance. That nurse sounds nice and supportive. That chart looked a bit high to me too I'm just having a hard time balancing the low carb/low protein angle. I'll have to check out that thread although I couldn't post there either.

Svenskamae: They may be eating too low cal. I usually do best at about 1400-1600 at least lately.

Doggygirl: You've done this before so you know it does pass...eventually. I have three meters and I get different readings on all of them. I also count all protein and total carbs not net. Although if I'm a few over with high fiber...I don't worry about it. My friends brother did the leptin reset with pretty much zero results. I don't eat breakfast usually. Have you looked at bulletproof coffee? It keeps me going until 12:30 or so. My BG readings were what made me finally do something about the weight. I was really close to getting gestational with both my pregnancies and wanted to nip anything down the road in the bud now.

Paula: I've been starving too! I also add some fat to my coffee for those times.

Kilogirl: Congrats! I like eating meat for two meals too since they feel more like real meals

Clackley: I don't gain but I did plateau for a long long time until I added in some cals. We'll get there.

Rebecca: I never thought I'd see the day I could wear a six either. Congrats on your results! I think the weight lifting will help a lot.

[JMCM1]

Buffy I'm glad you asked - I thought it might be on this forum here too!

Thanks Krstn.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Zyllah

Morning Everyone,

Sorry for the break. Anyway no workout yesterday, lots of errands though. Weight is holding steady although I'm having a really hard time with the eating. I don't know if its a psychological thing or what but I'm eating more than I usually do and I never quite feel satisfied. I'm just curious what all you have been eating?

I have pretty much been eating the same thing every day--especially during the week. I'm weird that way, I find it easier if I don't have to think too hard about food. My day yesterday:
Breakfast: coffee w/ coconut cream, 2 eggs, 1 ounce each of sour cream, salsa, and cheddar cheese

Lunch: 3 ounces of cream cheese, 1 fat bomb

Dinner: Coffee w/ coconut cream, Large salad w/ 2tbs olive oil & Vinegar, 5 ounces of chicken (thigh with skin).

Also Sunday night I did something I've been avoiding and tried on a bunch of my clothes. Now I'm a SAHM so I pretty much live in workout clothes on a day to day basis...this was my nicer stuff. Hardly anything fit. I didn't try on everything but wow I think of the things I did try on only 2 dresses fit...a few shirts. I found this oddly depressing I like those clothes. Anyway I decided for a few items that I really love when I'm done losing I'm just going to have them altered. Still...I should have been ecstatic.

I know what you mean! I have some clothes that I love that I can't wear at all any more. If I had known I might have bought a duplicate in a smaller size. For me the Goodwill shopping has been a godsend. I never realized there was such great stuff in the smaller sizes. And this coming weekend is Labor Day. There will be many sales.

Anyway my dishwasher needs service and I have to get some stuff for my kids so after that we'll see if I can swing ketone strips. So I wrote that part with slight edits yesterday morning and the day was kind of a series of misadventures however I did discover that I can wear a size 6 pant. I tried on two different pants/different brands to be sure too. I did not buy them since I'm not sure if I'm done yet or what and they were beyond my comfort zone price wise for temp clothes. I did buy some shirts though and they were size SM.

Woo hoo on the size 6 pants and SM shirts!! I wish the ketone strips weren't so pricy. I do think that once you get into ketosis (per the meter) and you're eating the same protein/fat/carbs every day you don't need to test much. It's the getting there that uses up the strips.

Kristn: That's so amazing you reached your goal! I think you're right but as you said a lot of docs don't know how or don't care. I have thyroid issues... so it's been a real struggle to get my dosage right. Leptin sounds awesome but as you said not going to be on the market anytime soon. I also looked up around where we'll be moving and found a few possibilities. That's awesome since it gives me a short list of doctors to try

Thank you!! It's hard to believe in this day and age there would be so much confusion about thyroid treatment and so few doctors who really know what they're doing. Thank goodness for the internet!

Also you're right about the percentages although I lost my last five pounds not worrying too much about the protein count. Now adding avocado in to try to and up my fat ratio...I think that's where the added calories are coming from. I did get the low carb performance book in case that has anything useful for me since I do workout quite a bit.

LOL, I lost 90 pounds not worrying about protein! But at some point it just stopped working.

Also there does need to be a book about maintenance.

There are times I wish I had a scientific brain and had gone into research or medicine. I really want to participate in a scientific way to discover how to maintain weight-loss for the majority of people. It kind of became a hobby of mine when I wasn't losing weight. It's clear that most people can't maintain a significant loss, and it would be great to be part of the solution to that problem.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Buffy I'm glad you asked - I thought it might be on this forum here too!

Thanks Krstn.

Sorry for the confusion folks!

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!

Yesterday I stuck to my new plan and measured my ketones this morning: 2.0. So still firmly in ketosis with slightly higher protein and higher fat. Still slightly under my goal at 149.8. I expect to see some bouncing with TOM due early next week.

How is everyone else doing??

[paulabob]

Still enjoying my maintenance calories. Picking up a new quart of cream today...that stuff goes fast on this diet! Other than that, my grocery costs are really down. Amazing how much less meat and cheese I'm eating.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Still enjoying my maintenance calories. Picking up a new quart of cream today...that stuff goes fast on this diet! Other than that, my grocery costs are really down. Amazing how much less meat and cheese I'm eating.

I agree, I eat much less meat, although I was totally off of cheese before I started this. How much are you eating for maintenance? I'm afraid to go too high too fast. When I put my numbers in all of the calculators I come up with around 1900 calories for maintenance. I'm trying to work my way up and I'm at about 1600 now.