Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Thanks for the update!! Congratulations on the great results!

Thanks! I feel really good about it. I passed the "store window reflection test" today walking down the street in Chicago. I have to keep telling myself, "You are a normal weight person! You are a normal weight person! No one seeing you walking down the street thinks you look fat!"

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

Thanks! I feel really good about it. I passed the "store window reflection test" today walking down the street in Chicago. I have to keep telling myself, "You are a normal weight person! You are a normal weight person! No one seeing you walking down the street thinks you look fat!"

That is an amazing feeling isn't it? I think it took a year for that to sink in for me...I kept referring to myself as "chubby" and thinking that way for a long time after I hit the normal range. Congrats on your progress this week, I love reading about it!

I still love the feeling when people I haven't seen for a long time see me. At the teacher's luncheon the other day one of the teachers jaw literally dropped when she saw me. It had been about 3 years since I saw her and I was at the height of my weight I think.

I definitely think it's time for a "break" for me. But only in that I'm going to push my calories up to maintenance level. I'll keep the protein/carb restrictions. I think my metabolism definitely slows quite easily when I restrict too much. Maybe I should do this regularly...two weeks normal, two weeks lower fat. I know I can use the psychological break! Plus, I'm definitely planning at least one off plan meal in two weeks on my birthday.

I will still keep posting...I think it will be very fun to continue this WOE without intending any weight loss.

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I think it's interesting that your ketones were down in the afternoon. What did you have for lunch?

2 roasted chicken thighs
1 cup zucchini squash
1 TBS sour cream
1 TBS EVCO

The only thing that jumps out at me is maybe a light bit too much protein? I am also wondering about another question. Since my BG numbers aren't readily coming down from the low hundreds just yet, I'm guessing I'm insulin resistent right now which probably means higher insulin than I want in my blood. I'm guessing that would affect ketosis in a negative way? I'm hoping by continuing to follow this path and getting my exercise groove back on, my insulin sensitivity will get better than it seems to be right at this moment. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

I am eating less than Atkins says to, and I am gaining muscle mass, not losing it.

This is good to know.

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

But you know which day was even better? The day I bought a size 6. I tried them on this morning for fun, and they are comfortable again. A few months ago, the button in the front was inches apart.

Loving more inspiration!!!

Originally Posted by paulabob

I still love the feeling when people I haven't seen for a long time see me. At the teacher's luncheon the other day one of the teachers jaw literally dropped when she saw me. It had been about 3 years since I saw her and I was at the height of my weight I think.

Even more inspiration!

[/QUOTE]

Ketones this morning only .4. The only thing different in total yesterday from the previous day was lower of everything. The ratios were almost the same, but just 450 calories less across all macros. Hmmm.... Not jumping to any conclusions just yet. Will continue collecting and reporting data. Thank you for your feedback!

DG

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by paulabob

I definitely think it's time for a "break" for me. But only in that I'm going to push my calories up to maintenance level. I'll keep the protein/carb restrictions. I think my metabolism definitely slows quite easily when I restrict too much. Maybe I should do this regularly...two weeks normal, two weeks lower fat. I know I can use the psychological break! Plus, I'm definitely planning at least one off plan meal in two weeks on my birthday.

I will still keep posting...I think it will be very fun to continue this WOE without intending any weight loss.

I think it's great that you know what you need to do to keep this up. I know that I would love to hear how things are going with your new plan--thanks for continuing to post! Since this is just one giant experiment learning what works and what doesn't for people is super helpful.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

2 roasted chicken thighs
1 cup zucchini squash
1 TBS sour cream
1 TBS EVCO

The only thing that jumps out at me is maybe a light bit too much protein? I am also wondering about another question. Since my BG numbers aren't readily coming down from the low hundreds just yet, I'm guessing I'm insulin resistent right now which probably means higher insulin than I want in my blood. I'm guessing that would affect ketosis in a negative way? I'm hoping by continuing to follow this path and getting my exercise groove back on, my insulin sensitivity will get better than it seems to be right at this moment. Thoughts?

Ketones this morning only .4. The only thing different in total yesterday from the previous day was lower of everything. The ratios were almost the same, but just 450 calories less across all macros. Hmmm.... Not jumping to any conclusions just yet. Will continue collecting and reporting data. Thank you for your feedback!

DG

This is a mystery! Do you have your total calories and grams of macronutrients along with their %?

You may not be fully in ketosis yet which may be why the combo of 2 chicken thighs (how big were they?) and a cup of zucchini all at once was enough to lower your ketones? Honestly, this is just a guess.

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!!

Well, I stepped on the scale twice this morning because I couldn't believe my eyes. I am down another 1.4 pounds to 150 and GOAL this morning!!

I'm not changing anything about how I eat today as I really need to let this sink in. I'm going to contemplate (small) changes to make this week. I went ahead and ordered 30 ketone strips which I'm going to use to help me figure out the correct amounts of protein/carbs/fat for maintenance. I plan on staying in nutritional ketosis and my big goal is to work on body composition. I will be doing the dunk tank in 2 weeks which should give me a really good starting body composition #. Once I have that I can set some more concrete body composition goals. For now I think I would like to be 25% BF, but my numbers via measuring and my scale are from 26% to 30%.

How is everyone else doing??

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

This is a mystery! Do you have your total calories and grams of macronutrients along with their %?

For the day:
Cals 1462 (lowest day yet - maybe that has something to do with it!)
Fat: 125g 77%
Carb: 15g 3%
Pro: 74g 20%

You may not be fully in ketosis yet which may be why the combo of 2 chicken thighs (how big were they?) and a cup of zucchini all at once was enough to lower your ketones?

I'm thinking you are right that I am just not full on in ketosis so need to just give it more time. I sure love being able to come here and talk it over with you guys!

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Well, I stepped on the scale twice this morning because I couldn't believe my eyes. I am down another 1.4 pounds to 150 and GOAL this morning!!

WOO HOO!!!!!!

Congratulations - what a fine accomplishment!!! I hope you do something special for yourself today!

DG

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

For the day:
Cals 1462 (lowest day yet - maybe that has something to do with it!)
Fat: 125g 77%
Carb: 15g 3%
Pro: 74g 20%



I'm thinking you are right that I am just not full on in ketosis so need to just give it more time. I sure love being able to come here and talk it over with you guys!

I think you're on the right track. I forgot what your protein gram goal is. You might need to come down a bit on protein to jump-start ketosis.

WOO HOO!!!!!!

Congratulations - what a fine accomplishment!!! I hope you do something special for yourself today!

DG

Thanks! I am a bit in shock to tell the truth. My doing something special is going to the dentist (went this am--now need to get the crown I've been putting off since 2009) and kettlebell class tonight. Oh yeah, I ordered a new bathing suit for Hawaii! I wasn't sure of the size so I ordered 2 to try on. Seriously gorgeous suit! I know that we can't link to commerical sites but I ordered the "Tangier" bra top and banded hipster from Everything But Water. I'm crossing my fingers that it will look good enough on me to actually wear in public. At the very least I think I can wear the top with my board shorts.

[Doggygirl]

Kristn I googled the Everything but water place and looked up the bathing suit. You are gonna look SMOKIN' HOT!! YOU GO GIRL! When are you going to Hawaii?

My goal weight is close to yours - 152. So I assumed 25% body fat which is 114 pounds lean body mass. .6 of that for the minimum protein is 68.4. So I'm not hugely over, but over a little bit. I think I will work on that as you suggest. My recent days were more like 90 - 100 so I probably havent' seen the full effect of even yesterdays protein level yet. I'm excited about this whole adventure!

Paulabob - I was thinking about your plan to move from a maintenance level to weight loss level while still following the plan and I really like that idea.

DG

[clackley]

Can someone tell me where in the the art and science book is the protein chart? I cannot find it.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Kristn I googled the Everything but water place and looked up the bathing suit. You are gonna look SMOKIN' HOT!! YOU GO GIRL! When are you going to Hawaii?

Thanks! I fell in love with this suit and have been waiting to order it until I reached goal. We're leaving on October 5th which is 5.5 weeks from now!

My goal weight is close to yours - 152. So I assumed 25% body fat which is 114 pounds lean body mass. .6 of that for the minimum protein is 68.4. So I'm not hugely over, but over a little bit. I think I will work on that as you suggest. My recent days were more like 90 - 100 so I probably havent' seen the full effect of even yesterdays protein level yet. I'm excited about this whole adventure!

I have been roughly 55-65 grams of protein on most days and 70 is probably fine. I think every once and a while doing 90-100 is probably okay (I've had those days!), but if our goals are roughly the same my experience is that you probably can't consistently do 90-100 and stay in ketosis.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by clackley

Can someone tell me where in the the art and science book is the protein chart? I cannot find it.

I looked also. It's not in either of the Art and Science books. It's in A New Atkins for a New You and Jimmy Moore posted a copy of it on the blog post with the Phinney interview (not the "Ask The Lowcarb Experts" blog-his regular blog).

[clackley]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I looked also. It's not in either of the Art and Science books. It's in A New Atkins for a New You and Jimmy Moore posted a copy of it on the blog post with the Phinney interview (not the "Ask The Lowcarb Experts" blog-his regular blog).

Ok, I can stop trying to find it. He did say it was in his art and science book but I guess he was mistaken....Thank you!

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I have been roughly 55-65 grams of protein on most days and 70 is probably fine. I think every once and a while doing 90-100 is probably okay (I've had those days!), but if our goals are roughly the same my experience is that you probably can't consistently do 90-100 and stay in ketosis.

This is great input. I'm done with food for today and came in with protein at 66g.

What is your take on "net carbs?" I use a sofware program to track so it shows me carbs and fiber. I'm not sure I trust the "net carbs" thing so I've really been targeting around 20 total carbs. Today I'm a tad bit higher at 27g but I had a big fiber day at 17 so I suppose I'm OK with that. We'll see what the test strip tells me in the morning.

Cathy I'm going to steal your doggy. That is all. We have five dogs at my house - most are German Shepherds that Mr. Doggy trains with. (or retired from training - he collects them LOL!) I keep saying I WANT ONE LITTLE DOGGY ALL MY OWN!! (the beagle sleeping among the stuffed toys in my avatar is my former little doggy who went over the rainbow bridge last year)

DG

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

2 roasted chicken thighs
1 cup zucchini squash
1 TBS sour cream
1 TBS EVCO

The only thing that jumps out at me is maybe a light bit too much protein? I am also wondering about another question. Since my BG numbers aren't readily coming down from the low hundreds just yet, I'm guessing I'm insulin resistent right now which probably means higher insulin than I want in my blood. I'm guessing that would affect ketosis in a negative way? I'm hoping by continuing to follow this path and getting my exercise groove back on, my insulin sensitivity will get better than it seems to be right at this moment. Thoughts?

How many grams of protein were in those thighs and how many grams of protein are you supposed to be having each day? I am allowed 54 grams, and two chicken thighs would be way too much for me at a meal.

Ketones this morning only .4. The only thing different in total yesterday from the previous day was lower of everything. The ratios were almost the same, but just 450 calories less across all macros.

Well, maybe the problem is that you are reducing everything. With NK, you are supposed to leave your protein and carbs where they are and adjust your fat up and down to get where you need to be.

The amount of protein you eat should be based on your height, not be a certain percentage of your total calories. Same with carbs - they should be at a certain amount, regardless of what percentage they are of the total calories.

What do you think?

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

This is a mystery! Do you have your total calories and grams of macronutrients along with their %?

You may not be fully in ketosis yet which may be why the combo of 2 chicken thighs (how big were they?) and a cup of zucchini all at once was enough to lower your ketones? Honestly, this is just a guess.

I think that is probably likely.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Good morning everyone!!

Well, I stepped on the scale twice this morning because I couldn't believe my eyes. I am down another 1.4 pounds to 150 and GOAL this morning!!

I'm not changing anything about how I eat today as I really need to let this sink in. I'm going to contemplate (small) changes to make this week. I went ahead and ordered 30 ketone strips which I'm going to use to help me figure out the correct amounts of protein/carbs/fat for maintenance. I plan on staying in nutritional ketosis and my big goal is to work on body composition. I will be doing the dunk tank in 2 weeks which should give me a really good starting body composition #. Once I have that I can set some more concrete body composition goals. For now I think I would like to be 25% BF, but my numbers via measuring and my scale are from 26% to 30%.

I am BEYOND THRILLED for you! You must be ecstatic!

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

For the day:
Cals 1462 (lowest day yet - maybe that has something to do with it!)
Fat: 125g 77%
Carb: 15g 3%
Pro: 74g 20%

Are you eating most of your protein at one sitting? How many meals per day are you eating, and is your protein spread out between those meals?

[RebeccaLatham]

I am using total carbs, not net carbs. Jimmy Moore is also using total carbs.

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

How many grams of protein were in those thighs and how many grams of protein are you supposed to be having each day? I am allowed 54 grams, and two chicken thighs would be way too much for me at a meal.

These were two small local farm raised thighs. Not the gargantuan commercially raised chickens. I've been a food weigher for a long time and I would say the meat + skin was no more than 3 ounces tops.

68 is the low end of my protein range based on .6 - 1 of target LBM. (114) is the high end). I have not been low carb until the last couple of weeks. So making the transition to low carb hunger is not my friend. I have been targeting a little bit higher protein (90 - 100g) and 20g carbs and the rest fat. Yesterday is the first day for lower protein (within the target range - not targeting a % of total calories) and carbs were constant. Fat is the big variable.

That is what you are suggesting, correct?


Thank you for taking time to give me feedback! I really appreciate it. I love your blog by the way.

DG

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

Are you eating most of your protein at one sitting? How many meals per day are you eating, and is your protein spread out between those meals?

The last few days I have made it to my goal (for now) of 3 meals, no snacks. (was 3 meals, one snack) I would love it if eventually my hunger is such that I can move to 2 meals. I try to spread protein evenly. Some days of course work out better than others. Carbs I am currently doing next to none at breakfast due to the morning BG issues I've been having. Then I try to stay close to 10 at lunch/dinner.

DG

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

I am BEYOND THRILLED for you! You must be ecstatic!

Thanks Rebecca! I am kind of in shock to tell the truth. During the past 11 years I have tried so hard to get here and have been unsuccessful so many times.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

The last few days I have made it to my goal (for now) of 3 meals, no snacks. (was 3 meals, one snack) I would love it if eventually my hunger is such that I can move to 2 meals. I try to spread protein evenly. Some days of course work out better than others. Carbs I am currently doing next to none at breakfast due to the morning BG issues I've been having. Then I try to stay close to 10 at lunch/dinner.

DG

Yeah Doggygirl! I do 3 meals/day--can't quite make it happily to two. It sounds like you are working towards the right place for nutritional ketosis.

I track both net carbs and total carbs. I try to stay total carbs below 25, but if I go slightly over with lots of fiber I don't worry too much about it.

[mom2zeke]

I made my plan for tomorrow. To my usual routine I am going to add 1 ounce of cheddar cheese at breakfast, 1 ounce of cream cheese at lunch, and one tbs. more of olive oil at dinner.

Thank you for the calculator Rebecca, I used it to try and figure out my new menu. For the next week my goal is 70 grams of protein, 25 grams of carbs (5 fiber), and 130-140 grams of fat. This ups my protein slightly and my fat significantly.

I will start testing ketones on Wednesday morning to see how things are going.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

These were two small local farm raised thighs. Not the gargantuan commercially raised chickens. I've been a food weigher for a long time and I would say the meat + skin was no more than 3 ounces tops.

68 is the low end of my protein range based on .6 - 1 of target LBM. (114) is the high end). I have not been low carb until the last couple of weeks. So making the transition to low carb hunger is not my friend. I have been targeting a little bit higher protein (90 - 100g) and 20g carbs and the rest fat. Yesterday is the first day for lower protein (within the target range - not targeting a % of total calories) and carbs were constant. Fat is the big variable.

That is what you are suggesting, correct?


Thank you for taking time to give me feedback! I really appreciate it. I love your blog by the way.

DG

Yes, that answers my question. If you are really only doing lower protein for the past couple of days, then I would say you just need to give it time.

When I started eating for NK, my ketone strips had not arrived yet, so I have no idea how long it took me to enter NK. I started eating lower protein on July 9, 2012, but I did not test by blood ketones for the first time until 10 days later, when the strips arrived.

I am curious to know what my levels were right before I started, but I will never know. I was just too anxious to start eating right and losing weight, and I did not want to wait for the strips to arrive to start.

Looking back, I guess I did not need the strips, because the way I am eating is right for me, and I am losing weight, with or without ketone testing. If I had started eating this way and did NOT lose weight, then testing would have been enlightening.

Oh, well. I'm still glad I tested. And thanks for reading and liking my blog. When you were there, I wonder if you saw the post for July 21, 2012. I met with my boss over the weekend and we spoke of the future of my writing. I'm looking forward to that.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

For the next week my goal is 70 grams of protein, 25 grams of carbs (5 fiber), and 130-140 grams of fat. This ups my protein slightly and my fat significantly.

I have tried to increase things so many times when I have been making progress, that I hesitate to do it again. This time around, I think I will just stay eating the way I am unless I start losing muscle. If that happens, I will increase protein a little bit.

I will start testing ketones on Wednesday morning to see how things are going.

Be sure to report on that!

[paulabob]

Kristn, Congrats on hitting goal!

I enjoyed eating full calories yesterday. Boy, I sure was hungry!

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I track both net carbs and total carbs. I try to stay total carbs below 25, but if I go slightly over with lots of fiber I don't worry too much about it.

That's what has seemed logical to me - good to know that it is working in your world!

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

If you are really only doing lower protein for the past couple of days, then I would say you just need to give it time.

I think you are right. I get impatient and I need to get over that and give my body time to adjust.

I did not want to wait for the strips to arrive to start.

I don't blame you there!

I wonder if you saw the post for July 21, 2012. I met with my boss over the weekend and we spoke of the future of my writing. I'm looking forward to that.

I hadn't seen that one but just went and read it. Congratulations on your professional writing opportunity! I like your first article. I can relate to so much you said about the generations and coming to America and how things have changed. My grandparents and great grandparents were all farmers so ate nearly all of their food off of their own farms. (meat, dairy, vegs) My grandmother (Dad's Mom) who also died of complications of diabetes was the Big Baker in the family.

Originally Posted by paulabob

I enjoyed eating full calories yesterday. Boy, I sure was hungry!

Good that you enjoyed it!!! I am still battling hunger and for the "ketosis makes your hunger go away" thing to kick into gear!

Ketones read .5 this morning so things seem to be moving in the right direction. I'm wondering how my abnormal BGs have been affecting things. The important thing I guess is that BG is moving in the right direction too. My fasting was 98 today after being in the low 100s for the last several many days. I hope to see continued improvement there. My later day BGs are not such a big concern as these morning readings. I hope I am catching this in time to get it turned around with diet/exercise.

Love reading your posts! Have a good day everyone.

DG

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

I have tried to increase things so many times when I have been making progress, that I hesitate to do it again. This time around, I think I will just stay eating the way I am unless I start losing muscle. If that happens, I will increase protein a little bit.
Be sure to report on that!

I have to figure out workable maintenance somehow. I will definitely report on my nutritional ketosis maintenance experiment!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Kristn, Congrats on hitting goal!

Thanks! It's sinking in today.

I enjoyed eating full calories yesterday. Boy, I sure was hungry!

Today is my first day of upping my food amounts. I'm going slowly, but already loved my breakfast!

Are you testing for ketones?