Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by marylouise

Rebecca

Do you remember me? It is great to see you again.

Hi, Mary Louise! Sure I remember you!

[marylouise]

Hi Ya'll. I am doing great! Started my walk up the Ladder today. Scarie but do-able. Because of my age I have decided to go for 160 instead of 150. Plus a couple health issues to work out. But I feel great!
It is great to see sooooooooooooooooo many smiling faces!

Rebecca I am so happy you found LCF!

LCF ROCKS!!!!!!!!!

[stardustshadow]

Originally Posted by marylouise

star! It's great to see you again!

Hey there!! Good to see you!!

[RebeccaLatham]

My weight held steady this morning at 140.6, but I lost 1/8" around my hips. So now I need to lose the following to hit my goal:

4.6 pounds on the scale
6 pounds of body fat
(gain) 1.4 pounds of lean mass
1/8" around my neck
2-3/4" around my waist
0" around my hips

Realistically, I think I will not lose that much around my waist and more than that around my hips, if history is any judge of what is to come. My goal is to have a waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7, but I have always (even when thin) been a little thick waisted. As long as my body fat percentage comes down to 30, I will not worry about the waist-to-hip ratio.

Just for fun, I used the body fat function on my scale this morning. According to the online calculator, my body fat is 33.3% right now. I got on the scale with dry feet, and it said 37%. I got back on with wet feet twice, and it said 34% both times. I guess the 34% one is not that far off from the online calculator - less that 1% difference.

[paulabob]

Up a pound this morning. Probably pre-tom related. I'm usually 26 days, and I'm at day 29 now... Great for my anemia, but a bit annoying just waiting.

Rebecca I hear you on the waist/hip ratio. The only time I was at .7 was at high school prom when I was 95 pounds. I'm just glad I'm below .8 now. I was almost .9 at my biggest. Even with 106 pounds lost, it hasn't changed my ratio all that much.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

My weight held steady this morning at 140.6, but I lost 1/8" around my hips. So now I need to lose the following to hit my goal:

4.6 pounds on the scale
6 pounds of body fat
(gain) 1.4 pounds of lean mass
1/8" around my neck
2-3/4" around my waist
0" around my hips

Realistically, I think I will not lose that much around my waist and more than that around my hips, if history is any judge of what is to come. My goal is to have a waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7, but I have always (even when thin) been a little thick waisted. As long as my body fat percentage comes down to 30, I will not worry about the waist-to-hip ratio.

Woo hoo for the 1/8" lost on your hips!

I think the waist-to-hip ratio has a lot more to do with genetics when your weight and body fat% are on target.

I have always had a great waist-to-hip ratio even at 257 pounds. The very last fat to leave me is on my hips and thighs.

Just for fun, I used the body fat function on my scale this morning. According to the online calculator, my body fat is 33.3% right now. I got on the scale with dry feet, and it said 37%. I got back on with wet feet twice, and it said 34% both times. I guess the 34% one is not that far off from the online calculator - less that 1% difference.

What type of scale do you have? I checked through the manual for mine and it does not require wet feet.

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!!

I am loving my new scale--down .4 pounds this morning to 152.2. My old scale just didn't have that kind of accuracy. Now, I may not like it so much when I'm bouncing around, but right now I'll take it!

I'm taking my son to the airport this morning. He'll be in Prague for 4 months for a Junior semester at film school. It is very bittersweet for me. I'm very excited for him to have this opportunity, but it's hard to have him so far away. Thank goodness for modern technology! At least I won't be waiting impatiently for letters or quick phone calls. He helped me set up a Skype account and I'll be able to see him and talk to him regularly.

How is everyone else doing??

[clackley]

Hi all! And Stardustshadow - great to see you!!

After a few chaotic weeks, I am back to serious nutritonal ketosis. Not that I ever think I have gone out of ketosis but have no proof one way or the other and have resisted buying a meter. I am concentrating on reducing my protein to no more than 60g.

Does anyone count calories as in the fat fast or is that not necessary. I have become quite award of them as I track other data on my menu....

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by clackley

Hi all! And Stardustshadow - great to see you!!

After a few chaotic weeks, I am back to serious nutritonal ketosis. Not that I ever think I have gone out of ketosis but have no proof one way or the other and have resisted buying a meter. I am concentrating on reducing my protein to no more than 60g.

Does anyone count calories as in the fat fast or is that not necessary. I have become quite award of them as I track other data on my menu....

I do count calories and try to keep them between 1200 and 1500 (mostly the lower end). I probably go over that at least one day on the weekends, but I try to keep carbs and protein constant even with calories going up. I have yet to get knocked out of ketosis doing this.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Up a pound this morning. Probably pre-tom related. I'm usually 26 days, and I'm at day 29 now... Great for my anemia, but a bit annoying just waiting.

TOM was a bit later than expected for me last month also. I always bounce around right before and during TOM. Annoying, but expected.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by clackley

Does anyone count calories as in the fat fast or is that not necessary. I have become quite award of them as I track other data on my menu....

I do...I'm pretty resistant to weight loss so I do. Monday-Thursday I do 900-1100. Friday 1300 or so, and weekends 1800 (full calories for me). Averaging about a pound a week, although it's been slower this month. Hoping a good whoosh is on its way.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Rebecca I hear you on the waist/hip ratio. The only time I was at .7 was at high school prom when I was 95 pounds. I'm just glad I'm below .8 now. I was almost .9 at my biggest. Even with 106 pounds lost, it hasn't changed my ratio all that much.

At my highest weight in February 2009, I weighed 158 pounds and had a waist-to-hip ratio of 0.769. As I lost weight, I was losing more in my hips than my waist, and my w/h ratio actually went UP to 0.816.

The lowest it has been since I started losing was 0.739. Just for fun, and for the sake of "getting real", I'm going to adjust my goal to a w/h ratio of 0.739 and see if I can get there. If it goes lower after that, great, and if not, I'll be satisfied with 0.739.

[Doggygirl]

Hi everyone!

Congrats Kristn on the -pounds and Rebecca on the -inches! You are giving me hope!

Yesterday was awesome. Stayed on plan throughout the day, and took a pass on my planned after dinner EVCO bark treat. Just wasn't hungry for it. Hopefully the changes are starting to take place!

Kristn, I took your words to heart and packed LOTS of on plan food - especially fat with modest protein - for being away from home today from 1PM until about 10PM tonight. I am a late in life returning to college student, and today is my first day of classes. My peers LOVE the vending machines and bringing their own junk to class for breaks, etc. I will have no need to go there. I'm bringing more than enough - but if I end up pigging out at least it will be on fat and not sugarcarbies. Extra fat will at least keep me in the same place mentally - sugarcarbies would take me WAAAAY back.

Getting excited for my test strips to arrive.

Fasting BG was 103 this morning. I'm not liking this. Another reason I am very glad to be making the challenging transition back to low carb right now.

Have a good day everyone!

DG

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

What type of scale do you have? I checked through the manual for mine and it does not require wet feet.

I have Homedics. I got it at BB&B. Yes, the manual says that your feet have to be damp in order for the bioimpedance to work.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by clackley

Hi all! And Stardustshadow - great to see you!!

After a few chaotic weeks, I am back to serious nutritonal ketosis. Not that I ever think I have gone out of ketosis but have no proof one way or the other and have resisted buying a meter. I am concentrating on reducing my protein to no more than 60g.

Does anyone count calories as in the fat fast or is that not necessary. I have become quite award of them as I track other data on my menu....

I know what my calories are, but that does not mean that I count them, as in "trying to limit them or increase them." I track my fat, protein and carb grams, and limit or increase THEM as needed. Our bodies respond to fat, protein and carbs in different ways, so just counting calories makes no sense to me.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Hi everyone!

Congrats Kristn on the -pounds and Rebecca on the -inches! You are giving me hope!

Thanks Doggygirl!

Yesterday was awesome. Stayed on plan throughout the day, and took a pass on my planned after dinner EVCO bark treat. Just wasn't hungry for it. Hopefully the changes are starting to take place!

Yeah!!

Kristn, I took your words to heart and packed LOTS of on plan food - especially fat with modest protein - for being away from home today from 1PM until about 10PM tonight. I am a late in life returning to college student, and today is my first day of classes. My peers LOVE the vending machines and bringing their own junk to class for breaks, etc. I will have no need to go there. I'm bringing more than enough - but if I end up pigging out at least it will be on fat and not sugarcarbies. Extra fat will at least keep me in the same place mentally - sugarcarbies would take me WAAAAY back.

I'm glad it was helpful. I think that being satisfied will help get you through the transition. Especially with your classmates eating junk food all the time...

Getting excited for my test strips to arrive.

Fasting BG was 103 this morning. I'm not liking this. Another reason I am very glad to be making the challenging transition back to low carb right now.

Have a good day everyone!

DG

It will be interesting to see the results of your testing. Hopefully getting back to LC will lower your fasting BG.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

I know what my calories are, but that does not mean that I count them, as in "trying to limit them or increase them." I track my fat, protein and carb grams, and limit or increase THEM as needed. Our bodies respond to fat, protein and carbs in different ways, so just counting calories makes no sense to me.

I agree that just counting calories doesn't make sense all by itself. But if your carbs and protein stay the same and you shoot for a certain percentage of fat it will by default put your calories in a given range. it's kind of a "six of one, half dozen of another" situation.

[RebeccaLatham]

Here is my new goal:

136 pounds
40.8 pounds of body fat (30%)
95.2 pounds of lean mass (70%)
11-7/8" neck
28-1/2" waist
38-5/8" hips
24.1 BMI (high side of normal)
0.452 waist-to-height ratio (high side of Slender and Healthy according to this)
0.738 waist-to-hip ratio (0.7 being "ideal")

So.... That means, to get to my new goal, I need to:

Lose 4.6 pounds on the scale
Lose 6 pounds of body fat
Gain 1.4 pounds of lean mass
Lose 1/8" around my neck
Lose 1-7/8" around my waist
Lose 7/8" around my hips

Yesterday, I got dressed for work and realized that my size 10 Docker khakis are getting really loose and baggy. Time to break out the size 8! I also have a size 6 that I was comfortable in a couple of years ago. I may be in them soon, too!

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I agree that just counting calories doesn't make sense all by itself. But if your carbs and protein stay the same and you shoot for a certain percentage of fat it will by default put your calories in a given range. it's kind of a "six of one, half dozen of another" situation.

The reason I say that I don't count calories is that whatever calories something adds up to is not what drives weight loss. There are so many people that think it matters not what their macronutrients are, as long as the calories add up to the number they are shooting for. They think if they will maintain their weight on, say, 1500 calories, and they think they eat 10/10/80 of f/p/c or 80/10/10, it will not make a difference.

That is why I always say I don't count calories, because the number of calories does not matter, where how many grams of the macronutrients does. Calories is just too vague of a calculation to depend on. You can depend on macronutrients as a measurement, but counting on calories as a measurement leaves too much open to misinterpretation.

I keep trying to come up with a good analogy for this. How about:

My house is on fire, so I am going to call a local authority. A dog catcher is a local authority, but the best dog catcher in the world will not put out my house fire. I have to call a specific local authority (a fireman) to get the help I need.

In a general sense, you could say that it is six of one and half a dozen of another to say that a local authority (rather than a fireman) put out my house fire, but it will not help the next person who has a house fire to tell them to call a local authority. They might call the dog catcher!

A fireman is a local authority, but a local authority is not necessarily a fireman, and when your house is on fire, you specifically need a fireman, not just any local authority.

In the same way, fat grams are calories, but calories are not necessarily fat grams, and when you need to lose weight, you specifically need fat, not just any calories.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

The reason I say that I don't count calories is that whatever calories something adds up to is not what drives weight loss. There are so many people that think it matters not what their macronutrients are, as long as the calories add up to the number they are shooting for. They think if they will maintain their weight on, say, 1500 calories, and they think they eat 10/10/80 of f/p/c or 80/10/10, it will not make a difference.

That is why I always say I don't count calories, because the number of calories does not matter, where how many grams of the macronutrients does. Calories is just too vague of a calculation to depend on. You can depend on macronutrients as a measurement, but counting on calories as a measurement leaves too much open to misinterpretation.

I keep trying to come up with a good analogy for this. How about:

My house is on fire, so I am going to call a local authority. A dog catcher is a local authority, but the best dog catcher in the world will not put out my house fire. I have to call a specific local authority (a fireman) to get the help I need.

In a general sense, you could say that it is six of one and half a dozen of another to say that a local authority (rather than a fireman) put out my house fire, but it will not help the next person who has a house fire to tell them to call a local authority. They might call the dog catcher!

A fireman is a local authority, but a local authority is not necessarily a fireman, and when your house is on fire, you specifically need a fireman, not just any local authority.

In the same way, fat grams are calories, but calories are not necessarily fat grams, and when you need to lose weight, you specifically need fat, not just any calories.

I understand your point that the carbs/protein/fat ratio needs to be correct in order to lose--I didn't say that you should just count calories. But one can figure this out using either grams or calories of the macronutrients with the same results. Either way will work as long as you are tracking the macronutrients within a gram range or calorie range.

For example I eat 60 grams of protein (240 calories), 20 grams of carbs (80 calories) and 100 grams of fat (900 calories) for a total of 1220 calories. I can track this either way: grams of macronutrients or calories of macronutrients--there really isn't a difference.

Trust me--I don't think all calories are equal and just counting calories will result in weight loss or maintenance. But calories are a measurement value that can be used to track intake. If used correctly they are no better or worse than grams. In fact, to track correctly they each need to be converted to the other (calories into grams or ounces to measure food, and grams into calories to measure percentage of intake per macronutrient).

[Zyllah]

Hiya Everyone

I just finished reading all 22ish pages and wanted to join you all. I did low carb about 12 yrs ago and lost a whole bunch of weight. However....well you know the basic story I put it back on and then some. Anyway last summer after I was finished with having munchkins (I'm 35) I got serious about it. Well I thought I did anyway. You know when I first did Atkins I could eat pretty much anything as long as I avoided starchy carbs and sugar. At my age and with an under-active thyroid that is no longer the case. So going low carb helped me lose 10 lbs and then in Feb I got really serious. Since then I have lost 45 lbs and 31". I'm 5'5" and currently 150. According to that formula I should weigh 143. I'm not sure that is totally accurate but I'll see how I look when I get there. I was aiming for 135. Body type wise...total short waist-ed apple. Over the past week or so I have adjusted my counts to be in line with higher fat, lower protein and I've also added in the bulletproof coffee. Since then I've lost 5 lbs. I'm doing about 70 grams of protein but I am pretty active. According to my fitbit I walk about 4-6 miles a day everyday. I also workout anywhere from 3-6x a week. I aim for 6 but I have 2 small kids so frequently it doesn't happen. It's high rep low weight though. Anyway I just am curious if anyone thinks that's not enough protein. I don't want to lose LBM you know?
Nice meeting you all
Jen

[Doggygirl]

Hi all. Very good points re: calories and macronutrients. Since I track all food in order to monitor carbs and protein, the calories are "there." Past experience for me suggests that I can be too high on calories to lose weight even on LC. However, I have also never watched my protein intake to figure out an upper ceiling for that.

My hope is that with keto adaptation, I can easily drift my overall food intake down as hunger goes away. I would LOVE the convenience of eating 2 meals a day!!!!! I'm really excited to see how things emerge as I keep going.

Yesterdays plan worked out well. I ended up around 160g fat, 20g carbs, 100g protein, and just under 2100 calories. Got through the "watching everyone eat their sugarcarbies" at school without a problem. People think my food is weird but that's OK! I don't have to worry about sharing! I think things are improving on the hunger front. I am still feeling hungry at times but not that "white hot need" kind of urgent hunger that I always feel when I'm in sugarcarby mode.

I wish the dang ketone test strips would show up. Just takes a while coming from Canada but the savings are worth it. Measured BG this morning on both monitors and one was 85 (old monitor) and the other 83 (new BG/BK monitor). So...that tells me the previous readings where fasting BG was over 100 were probably right. Yikes. I'm glad I checked. The image in my mind of that meter reading 106 is a huge deterent from diving into sugarcarbies.

I really enjoy reading the wisdom on this thread. Thanks for the advice already given, and thanks in advance for the advice yet to come.

DG

[Carli]

I find LC pancakes a great way to add fat. You can add a lot of butter to pancakes! My favorite recipe has a whey protein powder base, giving the recipe almost 20g of protein. Its a decent serving, and keeps me full most of the day. But Id love a lower protein recipe if anyone has one that they love.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I can track this either way: grams of macronutrients or calories of macronutrients--there really isn't a difference.

That's really what I do. Set my protein 40-50, carbs 20-30, then look at my total calories to guide the rest. Which is funny cause at that point I could just look at fat grams, but don't. Keeping 900-1100 Mon-Thur, 1300 Fri, 1600-1800 sat/sun. Definitely a struggle for me on the full calorie days to keep the protein down. I still have some bone marrow, which I'll be eating up this weekend, yum!

Originally Posted by Zyllah

Body type wise...total short waist-ed apple.

Welcome Jen...I hear you on the apple shape, we sometimes have to be at the lower ends of the recommendations especially if we're small boned too. I think your protein estimate was probably good, especially if it spurred a bit of a loss (5 pounds in a week WOW) Hard to argue with success.

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Measured BG this morning on both monitors and one was 85 (old monitor) and the other 83 (new BG/BK monitor). So...that tells me the previous readings where fasting BG was over 100 were probably right. Yikes. I'm glad I checked. The image in my mind of that meter reading 106 is a huge deterent from diving into sugarcarbies.

Wow, that's great improvement in your fasting already. Congrats! I've already run thru 50 strips and am going to have to buy new strips soon. But it's taught me a lot.


Good morning! Yesterday's weird pound that appeared disappeared. Sitting at day 30 of my cycle waiting and bloating LOL. I survived the teacher's lunch yesterday (it was bbq, so I took a little brisket). There was zero fat to be had, so I made it up with a snack later. Luckily I am totally good with avoiding desserts...I'm tempted by salty not sweet. My peach cobbler was a hit...all gone from the dessert table.

Hope everyone's ready for Thursday. I'm all excited for my Project Runway tonight. I do lead a very exciting life. Got to enjoy other people's drama and keep it out of mine!

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Got to enjoy other people's drama and keep it out of mine!

AMEN!!

Love your side by side avatar pic. Congrats on your transformation!

Same is true for your side by side avatar Rebecca. You look fabulous.

How does one make a side by side avatar anyway? (I am so no teknik it's not even funny!)

DG

[mom2zeke]

Zyllah!
Congratulations on your loss so far! I think with your activity level 70 grams of protein seems like a good place to start. I am slightly taller than you (5'5.5") and a little less active (walk 3+ miles a day, work out 3x/week) and my goal is 55-65 grams of protein/day. Have you ordered a meter? Your can use the meter to help you find the sweet spot where you're still in ketosis while getting enough protein so that you don't lose muscle.

Doggygirl--I'm glad things are going well and your morning BG is down! Hopefully you'll get your ketone strips soon.

Carli--I occasionally make LC pancakes with coconut flour. I'm not sure if they're lower protein than your protein powder pancakes. For one serving I use 2 tbs coconut flour, 2 eggs, 1 tsp baking powder, a pinch of salt, and enough vanilla davinci syrup to thin the batter to the right consistency. I fry them up in coconut oil and you can add more coconut oil to the batter to up the fat if you like. My coconut flour has 1 gram of protein per tbs, so along with the eggs this is about 14 grams of protein per serving.

paulabob--I'm glad your floating pound floated away this morning! Hopefully TOM will arrive soon. And great job making good choices at the teacher's lunch. I am also a huge Project Runway fan! Although we don't have cable so we watch the next day through the computer--so don't give anything away.

So I see that there are lots of apple's here on the thread! I am a cross between an hourglass and pear myself. Getting fat to move between my bellybutton and my knees is quite a challenge!

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!!

I am down another .2 pounds this morning to 152. Only 2 pounds from my goal weight! I'm hopeful that I will reach it by next month if things keep going the way that they are right now. I was 160 when I started this thread on 7/15, so I've lost 8 pounds in 5.5 weeks!

I actually have lots of plans to work on my body composition when I reach my goal weight. Should be fun!

[Daytona!]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Good morning everyone!!

I am down another .2 pounds this morning to 152. Only 2 pounds from my goal weight! I'm hopeful that I will reach it by next month if things keep going the way that they are right now. I was 160 when I started this thread on 7/15, so I've lost 8 pounds in 5.5 weeks!

I actually have lots of plans to work on my body composition when I reach my goal weight. Should be fun!

Congratulations! Losing weight is fun, but losing weight with such a sensitive scale gives you a little self-esteem boost every day.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

How does one make a side by side avatar anyway? (I am so no teknik it's not even funny!)

DG

Oh, I fiddled around...took trial and error. Basically I remember opening a new picture in Paint, and copying and pasting the other two pics in. Don't think I did it very correctly, think I may have stretched a photo and made things look a bit funny.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

AMEN!!

Love your side by side avatar pic. Congrats on your transformation!

Same is true for your side by side avatar Rebecca. You look fabulous.

How does one make a side by side avatar anyway? (I am so no teknik it's not even funny!)

DG

Thanks! For mine, I put both pics into Photoshop and made one pic out of them, then posted that new pic here.