Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?

[mom2zeke]

Thanks for the update Rebecca! It's awesome that you're naval measurement came down this week. Unfortunately I don't think we can expect to see scale movement every week even if we're doing everything right. That's especially true when you're so close to goal!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

It is helpful to remember that it is not ratios that matter with NK. Your protein is a quantitative number and so are your carbs. In other words, find out how much protein grams you need and then use that number regardless of what ratio it is to the other macronutrients.

Same with carbs. Pick a number of grams that you are shooting for and stick with that number regardless of the ratio. Most of us are doing very low carb, like below 25g per day.

Your fat percentage will need to be high. 70-85%, depending on your activity level.

How many grams of everything are you currently eating?

I truly believe that this is the key to success with this plan!

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone and kilogirl78!

We had a great evening with our neighbors last night. We made the food so everything was on-plan, but I admit that I ate and drank more than I planned to. The good news is that our neighbor is doing Whole 30 so we didn't have any cheese which I can totally go overboard on. I believe that is why my numbers are okay this morning...

This morning I was back down my floating pound and weighed in at 154.
I checked my blood ketones and I'm still in ketosis at 1.6. Blood glucose was 81.

Paulabob--how did the party go for you?
svenskamae--have you started testing yet?

How is everyone else doing??

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Thanks for the update Rebecca! It's awesome that you're naval measurement came down this week. Unfortunately I don't think we can expect to see scale movement every week even if we're doing everything right. That's especially true when you're so close to goal!

Thanks for the encouragement, Kristn!

[paulabob]

Oh, I did have a small treat at the party, but it didn't affect my weight this morning. I've noticed with this way of eating, my "out of ketosis" carb number is much higher than it used to be.

Makes it nice that my weight doesn't fluctuate up and down as much as it used to!

I also discovered this weekend that roasted bone marrow is very, very delicious!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by paulabob

Oh, I did have a small treat at the party, but it didn't affect my weight this morning. I've noticed with this way of eating, my "out of ketosis" carb number is much higher than it used to be.

Makes it nice that my weight doesn't fluctuate up and down as much as it used to!

I also discovered this weekend that roasted bone marrow is very, very delicious!

Good to hear that your small treat didn't affect your weight this morning! I have yet to actually go out of ketosis since I started testing. The lowest I have measured was .8 (I blame the wine).

I love bone marrow. I just looked it up and it's perfect for this plan--almost all fat!

[joyfulmomto3]

Just found this group after reading all day about NK. I was aware of Jimmy Moore's n=1 experiment, then found Rebecca Latham through Jimmy, and now find you all here (including Rebecca!)

A little history--I did 5 rounds of hHCG over the last 3 years. Went from 185 to 130. After every round, I would never stabilize past Maintenance 1. I'd always gain. Thinking it was my lack of following the rules, I tried and tried again. I could hardly stand to eat all the protein they suggested in m1. But I did it and was consumed with food and eating and counting everything. It's been 3 years of learning everything I can about LC, paleo, Gary Taubes, Jack Kruse, Jimmy Moore.

My last hcg round was this spring. I've gained from 130 to 160 following a paleo diet. I was even EAV tested for allergies, thinking I had food allergies. I have managed to gain 30 pounds eating protein, veges, healthy fats, NO dairy, legumes, grains, sugar.

So I'm frustrated and find myself here. I've learned a lot from looking over the 20 pages of info. But it will take me a while to absorb everything. I can't afford a meter right now, but will start tracking my foods tomorrow morning. I'm shooting for 80/15/5 (fat/protein/carbs) which equals 133g/56g/19g.

Wish me success, because I don't know what else I can cut out!!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by joyfulmomto3

Just found this group after reading all day about NK. I was aware of Jimmy Moore's n=1 experiment, then found Rebecca Latham through Jimmy, and now find you all here (including Rebecca!)

A little history--I did 5 rounds of hHCG over the last 3 years. Went from 185 to 130. After every round, I would never stabilize past Maintenance 1. I'd always gain. Thinking it was my lack of following the rules, I tried and tried again. I could hardly stand to eat all the protein they suggested in m1. But I did it and was consumed with food and eating and counting everything. It's been 3 years of learning everything I can about LC, paleo, Gary Taubes, Jack Kruse, Jimmy Moore.

My last hcg round was this spring. I've gained from 130 to 160 following a paleo diet. I was even EAV tested for allergies, thinking I had food allergies. I have managed to gain 30 pounds eating protein, veges, healthy fats, NO dairy, legumes, grains, sugar.

So I'm frustrated and find myself here. I've learned a lot from looking over the 20 pages of info. But it will take me a while to absorb everything. I can't afford a meter right now, but will start tracking my foods tomorrow morning. I'm shooting for 80/15/5 (fat/protein/carbs) which equals 133g/56g/19g.

Wish me success, because I don't know what else I can cut out!!

joyfulmomto3!

I can imagine that you're frustrated not being able to maintain all of your great losses. Getting the right number of carb and protein grams and then adjusting fat grams seems to be the key to making this work.

You can get a free Nova Max Plus meter with 4 ketone strips (2 when you get the meter and then 2 when you register it). I don't think we can link to commercial sites but you can google "Free Nova Max Plus Meter" to find the offer. A few people have had their free meter arrive within a week, but I think it usually takes about 2 weeks.

Good luck!!

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by joyfulmomto3

So I'm frustrated and find myself here. I've learned a lot from looking over the 20 pages of info. But it will take me a while to absorb everything. I can't afford a meter right now, but will start tracking my foods tomorrow morning. I'm shooting for 80/15/5 (fat/protein/carbs) which equals 133g/56g/19g.

Wish me success, because I don't know what else I can cut out!!

Welcome! I also can gain weight on a lowcarb diet, and I do believe it's been the excessive protein that got me! Don't be surprised if cutting the protein is really difficult at first. If you do convert the excess to sugar, then your body is going to be used to that and you will have extra hunger for awhile. I definitely struggled the first two weeks but then it got easier and I felt satisfied. Fat never "satisfied" me in earlier lowcarbing, but now with the right amount of protein and adjusted to it, it really does.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by joyfulmomto3

Just found this group after reading all day about NK. I was aware of Jimmy Moore's n=1 experiment, then found Rebecca Latham through Jimmy, and now find you all here (including Rebecca!)

A little history--I did 5 rounds of hHCG over the last 3 years. Went from 185 to 130. After every round, I would never stabilize past Maintenance 1. I'd always gain. Thinking it was my lack of following the rules, I tried and tried again. I could hardly stand to eat all the protein they suggested in m1. But I did it and was consumed with food and eating and counting everything. It's been 3 years of learning everything I can about LC, paleo, Gary Taubes, Jack Kruse, Jimmy Moore.

My last hcg round was this spring. I've gained from 130 to 160 following a paleo diet. I was even EAV tested for allergies, thinking I had food allergies. I have managed to gain 30 pounds eating protein, veges, healthy fats, NO dairy, legumes, grains, sugar.

So I'm frustrated and find myself here. I've learned a lot from looking over the 20 pages of info. But it will take me a while to absorb everything. I can't afford a meter right now, but will start tracking my foods tomorrow morning. I'm shooting for 80/15/5 (fat/protein/carbs) which equals 133g/56g/19g.

Wish me success, because I don't know what else I can cut out!!

I think the grams of stuff you are going to try is good.

[zagnut]

Hi guys, I've been following the thread and reading all your great advice/tips, started lowering my protein about a week ago because I kept seeing bs spikes even though I wasn't eating sugar/carbs, so started tracking everything and found my protein grams were over 100 most days. I decided to lower that and have not seen the spikes like they were (140's). I'm not diabetic, cardiologist said I was pre-diabetic, so I really need to get a handle on this. Here's my numbers for today (well yesterday now)
Calories 1355
Fat 102.47g /66.8%
Carbohydrates 41.6g / 12%
Dietary Fiber 9.5g
Protein 64.2g / 19.6%
It was a slightly higher carb day than I usually eat because I had lots of veggies and some fruit (hardly ever eat much fruit). So normally my calories are around 1450 with higher fat now. I have no idea if I'm in ketosis or ever have been, just signed up for the free monitor (thank you for sharing that!)
I also started using 'fat bombs' to increase fat, but without the AS, I never use those.
Anyway, I have been feeling better since lowering the protein and am hoping to keep seeing good results. Any tips you can give me, feel free!

[stardustshadow]

Hey everyone!!
I have been told about this thread and it looks really interesting! As some of you know i have been stalled for about a year now. I have tried a LOT of things and nothing seems to work to de-stall me. But this looks interesting and I would love to give it a try.

My concern is being able to eat like this while 'on the go'. I sometimes have days where I am out of the house from 9 until after midnight. I am a law student and I have a night job (part time), all of which mean I have a pretty crazy, busy life some days! Can you guys fill me in on what types of foods you eat while doing a NK plan? Is it possible to do it while on the go?

And, of course...how do I figure out what percentages to use?

It would be so nice to find something that works! I feel so hopeless in regards to weightloss after the efforts of the past year!

Thank you all for your input

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by stardustshadow

My concern is being able to eat like this while 'on the go'. I sometimes have days where I am out of the house from 9 until after midnight. I am a law student and I have a night job (part time), all of which mean I have a pretty crazy, busy life some days! Can you guys fill me in on what types of foods you eat while doing a NK plan? Is it possible to do it while on the go?

And, of course...how do I figure out what percentages to use?

This has definitely helped my stall/gain of the past year. I sure hope it helps you! On the go could be hard. If you have to eat out, you can request butter/olive oil (for meat/salad) to balance your meals better. Bringing food with you, you can bring whatever you want. Enjoy cream in your coffee, etc. I go through a ton of sour cream right now...I find it is a great addition to most meats. Certain snacks I used to depend on, like beef jerky and cheese, are no longer available to me. I just don't have enough protein grams to fit in all I'd really like.

Percentages, don't worry about. Just figure your correct protein grams and carbohydrate and let the fat fall where it may. I'm eating a bit higher in carbs than some folks here (about 30 net right now) as I'm following a bit closer to Optimal Diet. My protein grams I'm aiming for 40-50 (based on my lean body mass of 90 pounds).


And amy

[stardustshadow]

Gosh, what about Salami? And cheese being out will be hard for me! I don't eat out much (budget!!) but I have to be able to carry stuff with me for lunches and sometimes dinners...so that might be doable.

If I remember correctly, my lean body mass is 130 pounds...so how do I then figure you how many grams carbs/protein I should have?

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by amy317

Hi guys, I've been following the thread and reading all your great advice/tips, started lowering my protein about a week ago because I kept seeing bs spikes even though I wasn't eating sugar/carbs, so started tracking everything and found my protein grams were over 100 most days. I decided to lower that and have not seen the spikes like they were (140's). I'm not diabetic, cardiologist said I was pre-diabetic, so I really need to get a handle on this. Here's my numbers for today (well yesterday now)
Calories 1355
Fat 102.47g /66.8%
Carbohydrates 41.6g / 12%
Dietary Fiber 9.5g
Protein 64.2g / 19.6%
It was a slightly higher carb day than I usually eat because I had lots of veggies and some fruit (hardly ever eat much fruit). So normally my calories are around 1450 with higher fat now. I have no idea if I'm in ketosis or ever have been, just signed up for the free monitor (thank you for sharing that!)
I also started using 'fat bombs' to increase fat, but without the AS, I never use those.
Anyway, I have been feeling better since lowering the protein and am hoping to keep seeing good results. Any tips you can give me, feel free!

Looks like you are on the right track! I'll be interested to see how you do with this new plan.

[drjlocarb]

Welcome back stardust!

[mom2zeke]

amy317 and stardustshadow

Amy--your numbers look pretty good. You may have to lower carbs a bit, but they may also be perfect for you. I would stick with what you're doing right now and then when you get the meter and test you can adjust if you're not in ketosis.

stardustshadow--that does seem like a challenge! Could you give us a typical day on-the-go right now? Perhaps if we can see what you usually eat we can help tweak it for nutritional ketosis. Also, is 150 your goal weight? If you really have 130 pounds of lean body mass then you're shooting for 15% body fat at 150 which is quite low for a woman and may be why you're stalled.

As for how much protein to eat, Rebecca had a great post here about figuring out protein requirements.

[JMCM1]

Talking about fat bombs - I posted a recipe earlier in this thread and couldn't remember where I got it. They were called "Abi Fae's Fat Bombs" and I got it from Wifezilla's blog.

Just wanted to give attribution.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by stardustshadow

Gosh, what about Salami?

I try to avoid most processed meats. Lots of chemicals that are unhealthy. The exception for me is uncured, nitrate and nitrite free bacon. Plus, you can get nitrate free and MSG free lunch meats from Boar's Head.

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!! I think I might be down in weight slightly, but I'm not 100% sure. I have an analog scale and it's pretty hard to read when it's between whole numbers. That being said, it looks like I'm somewhere between 153 and 154. Considering that I wasn't perfect this weekend I'm pretty happy with that. I went ahead and ordered a digital scale that supposedly can tell body fat %. I'm not sure how accurate these are for body fat, but I think the scale itself will be easier to read than my old one.

I also took measurements over the weekend and compared them with old records I have. I am definitely at the lowest weight and the smallest measurements that I have recorded in the 11 years since I started this whole process. I'm going to measure once a week to see how things are going.

This morning my ketones were 1.8, so still in ketosis after the weekend. This week should be pretty easy to stay on plan as nothing out of the ordinary is planned.

It's great to see some new faces on the thread!

How is everyone else doing??

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I am definitely at the lowest weight and the smallest measurements that I have recorded in the 11 years since I started this whole process.

THAT is notable! Congratulations!

This morning my scale weight finally returned to what it was before the extra protein and strawberries, so that's good. I still need to lose 1/4" from my waist and 1/8" from my hips to get back to where I was.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by stardustshadow

If I remember correctly, my lean body mass is 130 pounds...so how do I then figure you how many grams carbs/protein I should have?

For protein the quick and dirty answer is 130/2.2 for 1 gram protein per kg lean body mass. 59 for you.

[stardustshadow]

Originally Posted by paulabob

For protein the quick and dirty answer is 130/2.2 for 1 gram protein per kg lean body mass. 59 for you.

Wow, that is a shockingly small amount of protein. I really don't know how to even begin to figure out how to eat that little protein, especially since I can't be home to make food for either lunch nor dinner some days (meaning I have to carry it with me). What do you all eat? How does one consume such little protein and severely restrict carbs, too?

[stardustshadow]

Sure! Here is what I would typically eat on a low carb day on the go...

Breakfast: Coffee with cream
fried egg
Lunch: A couple of salami sticks or a hard boiled egg, maybe some cheese
Dinner: that depends. Sometimes a chicken breast and salad at the cafeteria at my job, sometimes a couple more salami sticks. Yeah, my busy days kinda suck

I feel like I am at a loss to eat if protein is so severely restricted...that means that most meat and cheese is off the menu, at least in normal quantities. What are good low protein, high fat food choices? Cream cheese muffins? Macadamia nuts?

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by stardustshadow

What do you all eat? How does one consume such little protein and severely restrict carbs, too?

I add plenty of butter, sour cream, coconut oil treats, avocado, oil dressings, etc. It's more fat than atkins but less protein portions, which does make in between snacking hard outside of cream in drinks. It was a really hard adjustment for me. I was eating 70-100 grams a day when I cut it back to 50-60 then tightened it to 40-50. I was definitely very hungry for awhile despite the same amount of calories. But getting weight loss going again was worth it.

Yes on the cream cheese and mac nuts. In fact I just picked up mac nuts today at the store. Cream cheese is a great lower protein cheese that feels like dessert...I eat it warm. But you could put it in your lunch meat with a pickle and roll it up... (hope that doesn't sound gross!)

[stardustshadow]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

stardustshadow-- Also, is 150 your goal weight? If you really have 130 pounds of lean body mass then you're shooting for 15% body fat at 150 which is quite low for a woman and may be why you're stalled.

Yes 150 was my original goal weight...but I did not have anything concrete to base that on, just guesswork from at BMI chart...it is smack in the middle of the weight range for my height. It may well be too low for me, as I am quite muscular and have a big frame.

I used a scale that calculated body fat % and it told me that I had 31% body fat . However, these websites where you put in your measurements say 39%. What is more accurate?? 8 % points are a huge difference to me. What number do I 'go with'? This will effect how many protein grams I can eat...

As a side note, when I was very overweight I had my body fat measurement done as well. At the time I was 250 pounds and had a body fat % of 50%, which would put my lean body mass at 125, which leads me to believe that the 31% is the correct number, as that would be close to my lean body mass as back calculated from 31 % of my current weight (putting me at 127 pounds of lean body mass, not 130 as I said before...sorry!!).

[joyfulmomto3]

Has anyone had stomach issues after eating coconut oil? I'm feeling quite nauseous after eating the fat bomb today. I didn't feel bad after my bacon grease today.

Also, has anyone ever had EAV testing done for food allergies.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by stardustshadow

I used a scale that calculated body fat % and it told me that I had 31% body fat . However, these websites where you put in your measurements say 39%. What is more accurate?? 8 % points are a huge difference to me. What number do I 'go with'? This will effect how many protein grams I can eat....

The website calculators really get mine wrong...my scale is more accurate. But other people are vice-versa. That said, your LBM will decrease as you lose significant weight, or it has for me. When I started I was 232 and 53% body fat, or 109 pounds LBM. So 19 of the 106 pounds I've lost have been LBM. I understand that's not terrible. Something like 60-80% of pounds lost are fat, and a certain percentage of your LBM is used to support the fat.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by stardustshadow

Wow, that is a shockingly small amount of protein. I really don't know how to even begin to figure out how to eat that little protein, especially since I can't be home to make food for either lunch nor dinner some days (meaning I have to carry it with me). What do you all eat? How does one consume such little protein and severely restrict carbs, too?

Yes, it is a small amount compared to what we have all been eating. I currently eat 54g of protein per day. At first, I felt deprived, but now I am used to it.

You asked what we eat. I gave you links a few posts ago that show exactly what I eat.

And, yes, I am eating less than 25g of carbs per day.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by stardustshadow

Sure! Here is what I would typically eat on a low carb day on the go...

Breakfast: Coffee with cream
fried egg
Lunch: A couple of salami sticks or a hard boiled egg, maybe some cheese
Dinner: that depends. Sometimes a chicken breast and salad at the cafeteria at my job, sometimes a couple more salami sticks. Yeah, my busy days kinda suck

I feel like I am at a loss to eat if protein is so severely restricted...that means that most meat and cheese is off the menu, at least in normal quantities. What are good low protein, high fat food choices? Cream cheese muffins? Macadamia nuts?

You need not give up eating meat. I still have bacon and eggs for breakfast, and I have around 3 ounces of some sort of meat, chicken, fish for dinner. I only eat two meals per day.