Nutritional Ketosis (LC/HF/MP) Challenge Anyone?

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I just tried one of the fat bombs. YUM! I can see how these can be dangerous. I will definitely work them into my plan so that I don't over eat them.

Thanks for the recipe Rebecca!

You're welcome! I just had one myself. Some people have said they overeat them, but all you have to do is, um, not overeat them.

I am not allowed to overeat. I do not allow myself to overeat. That might sound like I am oversimplifying things, but now that carbs are not driving my hunger, it's not a biological imperative to overeat. If I want a fat bomb now, and it does not fit in with my meals for the day, I just don't have it.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

You're welcome! I just had one myself. Some people have said they overeat them, but all you have to do is, um, not overeat them.

I am not allowed to overeat. I do not allow myself to overeat. That might sound like I am oversimplifying things, but now that carbs are not driving my hunger, it's not a biological imperative to overeat. If I want a fat bomb now, and it does not fit in with my meals for the day, I just don't have it.

I wish that this was totally true for me. There are a few things that I have trained myself not to do. I only eat three meals, no snacks. I don't ever eat grains, starchy carbs, or sugar in any form. But I do sometimes overeat acceptable foods. I think it's because I do have to eat a bit below satiety to lose weight these days.

[mayleesa]

that sounds wonderful, thanks for the recipe and i will be gathering those ingredients tomorrow! i'm so interested in this!

[loop4yah]

Rebecca, I was looking at what you were eating during your experiment and I'm curious what exactly were you doing with all the oil and lemon juice in the morning? Were you just drinking it straight or mixing it in coffee?

[loop4yah]

Mom2zeke: With the liquid splenda did you use the same amount of drops?

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by loop4yah

Mom2zeke: With the liquid splenda did you use the same amount of drops?

I used 12 drops of Sweetzfree.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by loop4yah

Rebecca, I was looking at what you were eating during your experiment and I'm curious what exactly were you doing with all the oil and lemon juice in the morning? Were you just drinking it straight or mixing it in coffee?

I mix the olive oil, MCT oil, Omega-3 oil, lemon juice and Stevia in a little cup with a lid, shake it up and drink it down. Very tart, but not unbearable. And because of the lemon juice, it does not even taste oily.

[Vita oldie]

Is it too late to join? Don't know how I missed the start.
I need to read 14 pages to catch up!
I know you have a blood ketosis reader but doubt it would be available to UK people!
I will have to use urinary ketosis and I know these are best used at night-any one tested using both to give a comparison that those without the reader could use?
Need to look at the oil drink (what are the proportions)-I will try not to make the FAT BOMBS as I would be greedy.
I see you can lend the books for 14 days (i don't have Kindle).Could you post relevant info as the Atkins 72 did?
I have most of his books and without seeing your suggested reads I'm unwilling to spend more cash!
Thanks for starting the thread and I look forward to catching up!

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

clackley--we buy a grass fed steer every fall and have a freezer stocked full of beef! We've been doing it for 6 years and love having all that meat in the freezer. We also get pastured eggs from our neighbors and belong to a CSA.

I've been having a busy day at work and then have to rush home and eat before my kettlebell class.

I pretty much eat the same thing every day for breakfast/lunch during the week. Eggs & avocado for breakfast and chicken or salmon salad for lunch. Tonight's dinner will be leftover hamburger and salad.

I am excited to get my new strips and to start using them to direct my diet. Does anyone know what time of day is best to test? I couldn't find it in the book, it's just really vague. I wonder if it matters? I guess one would want to test at the same time every day.

did you ever get an answer as to the best time to test for ketosis?
I posted a thread stating evening was best. A diabetic site I posted was removed but it had said that everyone has an insulin surge at Dawn every day-setting the body up and ready to wake up and go!

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

See up top where it says "welcome, carli"? Click on "quick links" in the blue bar under that. Scroll down to "subscribed threads". That will give you a list of all threads where you have posted.

This is so useful.
I have found myself losing heart when I can't get back to where I was after following a link! It happened when I clicked on the link to Fat Bombs!

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Hi there - I'm watching this thread because there is already a group of high fat, low protein, low carb on this board -EFGT Barry Groves. I was hoping to see what you all came up with! We have determined calories definitely still count, but the fat keeps the hunger and cravings away.

I read Jimmy's blog, too, and was glad he figured out he was eating too much protein and too many carbs.

Somebody up there asked about Fat Bombs. I copied these awhile ago on this site and I'm sorry I did not keep the attribution. But here are a couple of recipes.
- - -
Abi Fae's Fat Bombs
• 8 oz unsweetened almond butter (or natural sugar-free peanut butter or other nut butter)

• 8 oz raw coconut butter (Artisana brand is excellent) OR virgin coconut oil
• 1 stick butter
• 2 Tbsp butter
• 1 bar of 85% cocoa chocolate (Black and Greens, Dagoba, Lindt, etc...) or high cocoa chocolate chips
• Sweetener of choice to taste (I use a small amount of eryritol, but you can also use Splenda or raw, local honey if you are not super carb sensitive. Abi does not use any sweetener in hers.)

Optional add-ins
Roasted nuts
Dried unsweetened fruit like cherries or cranberries
Cocoa nibs
Unsweetened coconut flakes

In a microwave-safe bowl, soften the stick of butter, the coconut butter and the almond butter for 1-3 minutes until they are easy to stir together. Once the butters are blended, add in any extras making sure there is still enough butter blend to coat all the goodies. Taste and add sweetener if desired make sure to stir well.

The butter mix then needs to be put in some kind of form to cool. Silicone muffin cups, baking pan, chocolate molds, etc... just make sure it is flexible so you can get the fat bombs OUT of the molds. Melt the chocolate bar in the microwave in a glass dish and add the 2 tablespoons of butter to make it smooth and creamy. Dip your chilled fat bombs in to the chocolate and allow to cool on a piece of wax paper or a silicone sheet. You can also drizzle the melted chocolate over each fat bomb. Store in the refrigerator.


Because of the low melt point of the butter and coconut butter, these need to be kept cold once finished. If you plan on sticking these in a lunch box to eat later, simply put your fat bombs in small jelly canning jars and add a few low-sugar, high-cocoa chocolate chips instead of using chocolate molds and coating with melted chocolate. The thing I like about using the chocolate chips is the label shows how many carbs per chip so you can easily decide how carby or carb-free you want to make each jar full.
- - -

I followed the main recipe, using low carb PB from Target (with flax seeds), coconut oil, and butter. I added 2 TBS of cocoa, 4 TBS of chia seeds, and 1/4 cup + 2 TBS of coconut flakes (whirred in Magic Bullet to make smaller). I poured the fat bombs into 1 ounce portion cups (with lids, for transporting them in lunch boxes). The whole recipe was 26 nC, I got 31 1-ounce portions. The taste reminds me of "boiled cookies"--the ones with cocoa powder, PB, and raw oats. (I used truvia, which is 100% erytherol...counts as a sweetener on Atkins, but 0 carbs.)
- - -
1. 1 stick butter
2. 8 oz cocoa butter
3. 8 oz of a mixture of almond butter and dark chocolate almond butter. I had an opened jar of almond butter in the fridge and an unopened jar of dark chocolate almond butter and thought "what a fabulous addition"!!
4. walnuts (no measure--just what I had leftover in the bag in the fridge)
5. a handful of Craisins
6. 6 semi-sweet chocolate chips on each muffin

Waiting now for them to firm up, but they taste yummy melted. Thank you for posting about these!!!

I have tried to find this ste unsuccessfully. Can you give the link?

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

Well, I'll tell you how I got to my grams of protein, and then you can decide if it is a system you want to use or not.

The first thing I did was to figure out my ideal weight based on my height. The basic premise is this: First, you figure out how many grams of protein you should be eating based on Dr. Kwasniewski's formula. Then you use these ratios to figure out how many grams of fat and grams of carbs you should be eating: For every gram of protein you eat, you should be laso eating 2.5 to 3.5 grams of fat and 0.5 grams of carbs.

PROTEIN : FAT : CARBS
1 : 2.5 - 3.5 : 0.5

I'll use myself as an example and show you how I came up with my numbers. I am 5'3" tall, which is the same as 160 cm. To arrive at my "due body weight", I subtract 100 cm from my 160 cm, and I get 60 cm. The number 60 is now the amount of kilograms I should weigh. I decided a while back that I wanted to weigh 132 pounds with 25% body fat. And guess what! My goal weight of 132 pounds equals 60 kg, which is exactly what Dr. Kwasniewski's says I should weigh! Interesting...

He says that you should eat that same number of grams of protein each day, give or take 10%. I tried it with adding 10%, making my grams of protein 66, but I did not lose weight doing that, so now I am trying it the other way - 60g of protein minus 10%, which is 54. I am now eating 54 grams of protein per day.

Another method is to use Phinney and Volek's calculator - eat 0.6 to 1.0 gram of protein per pound of goal lean body mass. Using me again as an example, with a goal weight of 132 and a desired body fat percentage of 25, I would be 99 pounds of lean mass and 33 pounds of body fat. So I should eat between 59 and 99 grams of protein per day. As I mentioned before, eating more protein did not work for me, so I am staying at the low end.

Just for fun, I also looked up the RDA for protein for a woman. Interestingly, they do not go by height and the RDA for a woman is 46 grams of protein per day. Keep in mind that the RDA is based on the amount you need to avoid disease, not for optimal health. I think that number is pretty low, especially for a taller woman.

The chart in the new Atkins book says a woman my height should eat between 71 and 149g of protein per day. That's a pretty large range, and I can't imagine that 149g of protein per day for a little woman like me would be the right thing to do!

Summary:

54-66g - Kwasniewski
59-99g - Phinney/Volek
46g - RDA
71-149g - Atkins

I chose the first one, because I've tried eating more, and I did not lose weight. Going on the premise that I may have been eating too much protein, I'm trying the lower end.

Thanks for that info.
We are the same height which makes it easy for me! I already done it?aim to try to be a similar weight-it was what I was as a young woman and I always thought I was overweight! ( it was not a time to have curves when twiggy came on the scene!)
At 65 should I try for that weight or follow everyone else who say 140?
I now need to check up on protein levels-fish-meats-salad veg-cheese or have you

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I really want to do the DEXA scan. It's pretty pricey so I thought I'd wait until I got to my goal weight. I found a place nearby that is having a summer special through 8/31. If I reach goal before then I think I'll have it done.

What is adexa scan?

[mom2zeke]

What is adexa scan?

DEXA is a full-body scan that tells you how much lean mass, fat mass, water, etc. that you have in your body.

did you ever get an answer as to the best time to test for ketosis?
I posted a thread stating evening was best. A diabetic site I posted was removed but it had said that everyone has an insulin surge at Dawn every day-setting the body up and ready to wake up and go!

I've been testing in the morning because the ketones are usually lowest. If they're within range AM then they're most likely in range all day.

Is it too late to join? Don't know how I missed the start.
I need to read 14 pages to catch up!

I know you have a blood ketosis reader but doubt it would be available to UK people!
I will have to use urinary ketosis and I know these are best used at night-any one tested using both to give a comparison that those without the reader could use?
Need to look at the oil drink (what are the proportions)-I will try not to make the FAT BOMBS as I would be greedy.
I see you can lend the books for 14 days (i don't have Kindle).Could you post relevant info as the Atkins 72 did?
I have most of his books and without seeing your suggested reads I'm unwilling to spend more cash!
Thanks for starting the thread and I look forward to catching up!

Never too late to join! I think that you'll find the relevant information quoted in this thread. Perhaps when I get some time I'll consolidate them all into one post.

There doesn't seem to be a correlation between urine and blood ketones that anyone has figured out so far.

I've never done an oil drink--perhaps Rebecca can speak to that.

[mom2zeke]

Good morning all! How is everyone doing today?

I tested this morning to make sure that ketones were heading back in the correct direction.

Ketones: 1.8
Blood Glucose: 69
Yeah!!

Anyone here know anything about blood glucose? Mine seems to usually be in the 70s fasting with an occasional 80s or 60s. It seems like most people like to be in the 80s fasting, but is there anything unusual or worrying about being in the 70s?

I have my fat bombs packed up for the bus. I have to say that I find them very satisfying. I had one with lunch yesterday and it seemed to keep me satisfied longer than just the cream cheese. It's definitely a mind over matter thing eating them because I could probably have easily eaten a few more mindlessly.

Have a great day everyone!!

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by loop4yah

On another note I happened to stumble across a blog that was talking about "bullet proof coffee" (not sure if anyone has heard of it but I've seen it on quite a few paleo blogs recommending it)

Basically on this guys blog I believe his name is Dave Asprey the creator of "upgraded coffee" founded this protocol for "bullet proof coffee" which is basically IF with high quality coffee, 2 tbsp of MCT oil, and about 2 tbsp of kerrygold unsalted butter... and based off of his experiences its suppose to be not only a great tool for putting you and keeping you in nutritional ketosis but also help you lose weight. He swears by this protocol and he's actually also been interviewed on Jimmy Moore's podcast.

It's quite interesting. And I've seem quite a few people encourage MCT oil as a great supplement for becoming keto adapted and as a weight loss tool such as Petter Attia.

Unfortunately I'm not too sure on how to post links....but if you google "bullet proof coffee his protocol should pop up!

Tried a variation of this and it stopped me thinking I needed something!
He is obviously keen and everything being perfect and expensive, I, on the other hand, need to go with what I have!
I tried small amount of butter with decaf-coffee granules and it was ok and when I feel like something crunchy I will do it again!
I then made decaff-coffee with salted butter and some coconut oil again it was acceptable-not as good as a chocolate bar but that is not an option-it stopped my thinking of food!!

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by hippyatheart

I had my weigh in this morning. In 3 weeks of personal training (while eating low carb) I have lost 5 pounds, two of which was water. I lost 3/4" off of my waist, 1/4" off my calf, and 1/4" off my arm. I actually LOST muscle whichis crazy considering the amount of weight I am pushing. I am now questioning my low protein intake. What I need to build muscle which ultimatly raises the metabolism is pprotein right? If I am weight training 3 times a week then I need protein to build muscle. I am going to try not tracking my protein and fat intake and only track carbs this month to see how that affects my LBM% and muscle tone. While I lowered my protein I did not experience any great loss so I have nothing to lose in trying right?

How do you measure 2lbs of water from your 5lbs loss?

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Vita oldie

I know you have a blood ketosis reader but doubt it would be available to UK people!

Yes, you can get it in the UK. You just have to order it online from Amazon and order the strips from a Canadian pharmacy, where they are the cheapest.

I will have to use urinary ketosis and I know these are best used at night-any one tested using both to give a comparison that those without the reader could use?

According to Jimmy Moore and many others, the urinary strips are next to useless for finding out if you are in nutritional ketosis. They are very unreliable, and give false readings all the time, based on a lot of factors that have nothing to do with ketosis. I would give them a pass if I were you. If you cannot afford the meter right now, you could just jump in and start eating this way and see if you get results. If you do get results, you won't need the meter at all.

Need to look at the oil drink (what are the proportions)

If you go to my blog here, and read the post called Nutritional Ketosis - Week 4 Results, and read that post, you will see a place where I tell you that you can look at my menus. Click on that, and you will see what I am eating, and at the top of each page is the proportions for the oil drink.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Vita oldie

did you ever get an answer as to the best time to test for ketosis?
I posted a thread stating evening was best. A diabetic site I posted was removed but it had said that everyone has an insulin surge at Dawn every day-setting the body up and ready to wake up and go!

I test my blood ketones in the morning before I eat, for the same reasons that Kristn mentioned. Also, that's when Jimmy Moore does it.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Vita oldie

Thanks for that info.
We are the same height which makes it easy for me! I already done it?aim to try to be a similar weight-it was what I was as a young woman and I always thought I was overweight! ( it was not a time to have curves when twiggy came on the scene!)
At 65 should I try for that weight or follow everyone else who say 140?
I now need to check up on protein levels-fish-meats-salad veg-cheese or have you

My goal is to weigh 136 pounds. For you, I would just say set small goals, maybe 10 pounds at a time, and see how you look and feel each time you reach a goal. If you reach a goal, reasses your goals and keep going if you want to.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Vita oldie

What is adexa scan?

DEXA is a very expensive medical test that shows you your percentage of body fat and also bone density, etc. If you want to know more about it, try googling the word "DEXA" and you will find it.

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Good morning all! How is everyone doing today?

I tested this morning to make sure that ketones were heading back in the correct direction.

Ketones: 1.8
Blood Glucose: 69
Yeah!!

Anyone here know anything about blood glucose? Mine seems to usually be in the 70s fasting with an occasional 80s or 60s. It seems like most people like to be in the 80s fasting, but is there anything unusual or worrying about being in the 70s?

Steve Cooksey says that he attempts to keep his BG under 100 at all times. I told him that my fasting BG was an average of 85, and he said that was excellent. On the other hand, as long as you are not experiencing symptoms of low blood sugar, being lower, as you have been, is not a problem. I wish mine were a little lower than what it is...

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

By the way, I asked a little while ago if anyone knew where I can find the thread about Rodale. I could not find it. If someone already answered, I guess I missed it.

Anyone? Bueller?

Trawlling through threads to keep getting back here I saw Rosedale or some such name under a heading of something like alternative diets-hope this helps you find it.
I might try myself to find out what has sparked your interest!

[RebeccaLatham]

Originally Posted by Vita oldie

Trawlling through threads to keep getting back here I saw Rosedale or some such name under a heading of something like alternative diets-hope this helps you find it.
I might try myself to find out what has sparked your interest!

I was just wondering how much protein he thought we should eat. It is so similar to what we are doing here that I'm just going to stick with this.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham

Steve Cooksey says that he attempts to keep his BG under 100 at all times. I told him that my fasting BG was an average of 85, and he said that was excellent. On the other hand, as long as you are not experiencing symptoms of low blood sugar, being lower, as you have been, is not a problem. I wish mine were a little lower than what it is...

Thanks for the information, I'm not going to worry. In the past I have had low blood sugar symptoms occasionally, but I'm not experiencing them currently.

[RebeccaLatham]

Good morning, Fat Burners!

Yesterday was a weird food day because I spent part of the day at my father's house, and he has no good food to eat. I waited until early afternoon to eat breakfast, and then packed up two fat bombs and headed over there.

While I was there, I ate my fat bombs and I also ate two ounces of cheese. When I got home, I entered my food into my spreadsheet, and found I was a little short on protein, so I just made a little protein "paste" with powder and ate it before going to bed. So the amount of grams of everything was pretty close to perfect for the day.

And this morning, I lost a pound!

I now only need to lose 7.2 pounds of body fat to get to my goal!

By the way, I tested BK yesterday morning, and they were 2.4, so still going strong there.

[Vita oldie]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

That must be so frustrating Alessandre!

I searched around for svenskemae's list and found it on another thread:


You could try increasing MCTs like coconut oil to see if that makes a difference. I use coconut cream in my coffee, coconut oil to fry my eggs in the morning, and a coconut oil/olive oil combo for making mayo.

Can you list the mayo receipe and instructions?

[JMCM1]

Hi Vita,
When I first heard about this way of eating I was on a copying binge so I could keep eating this way without feeling deprived. I'm sorry I can't give you a link to the site where I got that particular fat bomb recipe. I think Rebecca has a great fat bomb recipe on her blog.

By the way Rebecca, this caught my eye - in a good way: What was this? Did you bake it? (from your August 1st meals):
PUMPKIN, CANNED
CINNAMON, GROUND
STEVIA
CREAM, HEAVY

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Anyone here know anything about blood glucose? Mine seems to usually be in the 70s fasting with an occasional 80s or 60s. It seems like most people like to be in the 80s fasting, but is there anything unusual or worrying about being in the 70s?

I think it should be fine. Mine are regularly in the 60s and 70s. I don't begin to feel any hypoglycemic symptoms until 55 or so. 45 is full on shaking/sweating/trouble talking level for me.

However, can't say I have normal blood sugar being hypoglycemic (familial not thru diabetes).

It may be one of those things individual to people. I know diabetics are concerned with it dropping too low, but that's just because of the ones that have to balance their insulin meds. For them too low is likely to be deadly whereas the damage from too high is never immediately deadly.

[Vita oldie]

Rebecca your breakfast made me laugh-what would your Mother say, liking the plate!
Still they also said don't waste food!