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Old 04-11-2013, 08:13 AM   #1
sjs
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: uk
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WOE: cyclical ketogenic diet - 10g carbs mon-fri
carb up guilt

on CKD I know if I want to build muscle during the week I have to carb up, also because I want my metabolism to keep up! Also this way I build muscle, and have a chance at socialising and sustaining this WOE

However, it's a mental battle and it goes a bit like this:
mon - great, forget food, let's work out!
tues - another workout under my belt
wed - sure, still ok with my protein shake and then meaty dinner
thurs - WHAT IS THIS CONFUSING HELL
fri - I am exhausted and it takes all my willpower to get through the work out and not eat biscuits
sat - CARBING UP and it feels like it disappears right into my poor muscles
sun - I feel like I am obese for eating

Anyone else suffer the PURE GUILT of carb up followed by a the MASSIVE DESIRE for carb up?
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:15 AM   #2
sjs
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 19
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WOE: cyclical ketogenic diet - 10g carbs mon-fri
p.s. I eat 10g or less carbs mon-fri and then just relax at the weekends.
I do 45 mins cardio (cycling machine) and 30 mins weights mon-fri too
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:06 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs View Post
on CKD I know if I want to build muscle during the week I have to carb up, also because I want my metabolism to keep up! Also this way I build muscle, and have a chance at socialising and sustaining this WOE

However, it's a mental battle and it goes a bit like this:
mon - great, forget food, let's work out!
tues - another workout under my belt
wed - sure, still ok with my protein shake and then meaty dinner
thurs - WHAT IS THIS CONFUSING HELL
fri - I am exhausted and it takes all my willpower to get through the work out and not eat biscuits
sat - CARBING UP and it feels like it disappears right into my poor muscles
sun - I feel like I am obese for eating

Anyone else suffer the PURE GUILT of carb up followed by a the MASSIVE DESIRE for carb up?
SJS

Few things I wanna mention/ask.

First, your words: "I feel like I am obese for eating."

What do you mean? Your body feels obese? Or is it in your mind? Or both? Do you feel lethargic or energized?

Your answers to those questions are relevant to the resolution.

1. If it's all in your head, neh, get over it. LOL It will pass.

2. If it DOES have a negative physiological effect on you, could be a few things that you can tweak to make this a more positive "tool" to your fat loss and fitness arsenal.

a) You could be having the wrong kinds of carbs and/or too many of them.

b) You could be eating too much fat on your carb up days. On carb up days, esp with CKD where the carb target is much higher, you want to keep your fat at 50 grams or under. This is where tracking on carb up days will be fruitful. You will see what you're eating, how much, etc. You can tweak these things as you need to. If you're a novice at CKD, I found that it took a few shots at "carb ups" to get it right, the numbers.

Also, some people respond better on that high carb day if they think higher glycemic carbs (non-fat or very low fat): bagels, pretzels, rice krispie treats, fat-free icecream, etc., along with some complex carbs thrown in for good meausre.

AND: I always put in an intense weight lifting workout (45 mins+) on that weekend/once-a-week carb up day.

c) Once you make the right choices, eliminate the fat, and find your target of carbs for your body's needs for refilling glycogen stores, those carbs should ideally be gobbled right up by your body to its stores with little or no after effects: bloating, cravings, sluggishness.

I can remember being pleasantly surprised that many times on the day following my carb up, I would feel/look leaner and tighter than I did the day previous. Just blew my mind! Again, I had to play trial-n-error to get my numbers right, but once I did, it was pure bliss and I felt like I was running on high octane following.

Another option:

You also may want to consider carb rotations, giving yourself two med-high carb days a week, all others 50 or under. Again, on the higher carb days you would keep fat as low as possible; on the LC days, you can raise it higher. Also, on your carb days, you may want to try eating your carb loads earlier in the day, tapering to green veggies only (and your protein/fat) for the last 2-3 meals of the day.

You may have already tried some of these suggestions, but I'm just throwing this stuff out there to try being helpful.

If you've being a strict VLC disciple for a long time, it really is a tough mental challenge getting over that hurdle of allowing yourself to have "good carbs," in any amount, much less in large quantities. This is where it helps to understand the science beind a carb up, and/or carb rotations. There are right ways and wrong ways. And not all carbs are created equal.

Let this work FOR you, not against you.

Best of luck to you.

Last edited by WATCH-ME-SHRINK; 04-11-2013 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:51 PM   #4
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Are you coming off a strict low carb diet? If so how long have you been on a low carb diet? Eating carbs should feel somewhat normal unless you have been low carb for a long time. Maybe you should try slowly introducing carbs in your diet and then work towards carb cycling later.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:30 AM   #5
sjs
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WOE: cyclical ketogenic diet - 10g carbs mon-fri
twyla

thanks for the great advice. A lot of the problem is in my head, and I've been alive long enough to know it's not something I can necessarily just change, but it is something I can manage. Any time I need to cut down I use a strict low carb diet but I find as it's a diet not a WOE I am waiting to 'eat normal' again or 'cheat' and I don't think it's the best thing mentally.

I've found CKD something for the first time ever with low carb, I feel like I could actually live with. I enjoy working out and I can get my head round carbing up as a means to building muscle

I eat protein and fat during the week and don't eat much, just because mentally it's easy to almost fast through the day (protein shake with cream for breakfast) then a regular low carb meal at night. All below 10g carbs.

With carbing up here is my dilemma - as is obvious and probably really common, I am trying to strike a balance between treating my WOE as temporary until a goal, or as something I can get used to as a lifestyle and just be second nature. I do like to be n control, and I do like to know I'm doing my best and any hard work I do working out is for the best for me

I think what I really want is something SIMPLE. I struggle with eating, mentally, and I the less I have to think and monitor it, the better. Low carb is great for me because there are certain foods you can just have, no brainers.

I can see how CKD fits my life too, which is something I normally don't adhere to but I'm really trying this time to make a lifestyle change and with consideration for my partner and son who live with me. I think it's pretty rubbish for them when I can't ever enjoy a 'normal' meal or a treat with them, and I don't want that longterm. I don't want to feel 'emprisoned' by my diet, which it can really feel like sometimes.

Anyway, I want to try this for two more weekends then see what I feel. I suppose my goal is to have just stuck strictly to my own plan, gained some strength and my jeans be a bit looser! haha!

Maybe I have too much expectation on my body to feel smaller every week?

And yes! sometimes weirdly after sat carb up, I feel smaller! I always assumed it was psychological but a carb up after about 6 weeks of low carb would always knock me off a plateau, hence I wondered if CKD was better for my body to give my metabolism the spike it needs, and my muscles the glycogen they need!

you're right twyla, all of this is a series of mental hurdles. I suppose I just need to know it's still working and if it is, I can be very disciplined when I want to be. I just don't think I can stick to a WOE without knowing I can endulge in things I want without counting carbs or calories (which becomes obsessive for me, I want a break from that sometimes) and I feel better in my head if these times are build in, scheduled in as part of a diet that thrives off of them, not seen as 'cheats' or 'days off' which then makes me feel worse!

hope some of that makes sense! I suppose all I can do is try it out a bit longer and see if it's still working. you're right I probably just need to get over it, and get on with it

thanks for the feedback guys!

p.s. PUNKIN - yes I always start any cutting regime with about 6 weeks low carb to make sure I'm firmly in ketosis and a couple of days carbing up doesn't throw me out. I low carb all week and workout on that. by friday I feel like I need the carb up, even earned it!
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:37 AM   #6
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You could also think about JUDD as another option because it allows for more carbs on some days. But the down days seem hard. You could read the thread and see what you think. If you like working out and like carbs, and have the metabolism to be able to do carb up days then I would say you're blessed! I would love to be able to do carb ups but I don't think I will be able to. I have a glucose meter now so I might try it in the future, but it won't be for awhile for me.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:24 AM   #7
sjs
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 19
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WOE: cyclical ketogenic diet - 10g carbs mon-fri
thanks for all the advice guys, really appreciate it all

I actually get on really well with hardly eating during the week! and come the weekend I don't even want to eat that much anyway and I focus on enjoying giving my muscles a break and refilling some glycogen. Going to see how it goes anyway.

this way I look forward to getting right back into lifting and cycling by the monday. Will report later though! going to see if I can measure anything in a couple of weeks. if I'm losing and recomposing my body, I'll be cool with that. Knowing I have weekends to be a 'normal' person, helps me just get on with the working week
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:01 PM   #8
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Hey, I know I'm late to this thread, but I have to question the basic premis.
I have been working out at the gym for about 10 months and been lc for about 7.
I'm losing fat and adding muscle at a pace I'm happy with.
I see no reason to "carb up"...so to speak.
I'm at <50 carbs a day most days. I feel great, am steadily losing pounds and inches
while gaining in strength, endurance and muscularity.
Not bad for a 63 year old.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:00 AM   #9
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I am still following a ketogenic diet and haven't had to carb up yet. My muscle mass is just fine. I find that as long as you aren't doing long intense cardio sessions, and are focusing mainly on weight training carb cycling isn't really necessary. It may be more for people who are severly underweight or for bodybuilders who are competing in competitions. Or for people who just love carbs! For people who prefer to stay low carb, I don't think it is necessary, I think you can build and maintain a decent muscle mass on protein and fat. At least that is what I am finding. I will probably just stay low carb once I hit goal, I am happy with my muscle mass.
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