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avid 04-02-2013 04:21 AM

slow burn training
 
I'm reading a book by Dr. Eades where he recommends slow burn training where you use fewer reps but raise and lower the weights very slowly with a hold at the peak.
I know there are body builders among the LCF'ers. Just wondering what you think of this method?

Punkin 04-05-2013 04:33 AM

Can you just explain the theory behind the method. What book is it?

Ntombi 04-15-2013 02:22 PM

That's what I do. Or did, when I could exercise. High intensity strength training, or slow burn, works great. I hope I'm able to get back to it sooner rather than later.

You do one set of a high weight for each muscle group, whatever weight will bring you to failure within one set, move very deliberately, focusing on your form at all times.

It really helped me keep or build my LBM (depending on the muscle group), and I like that you don't have to do several reps of each.

avid 04-15-2013 04:43 PM

Punkin...slow burn training also known as super slow and other names is basically doing your weight lifting with heavy weights but moving them very slowly, holding at peak, then returning very slowly.
There are books written that are very specific as to how many seconds it should take to do one rep, and as Ntombi said you do each set to failure.
I actually tried a version of it and it was just too boring for me.
No one at the gym I go to does it and there are many very muscular men and women who train there regularly.
good luck with your workout routine.

Ntombi 04-16-2013 09:21 AM

Interesting that you found it boring. I think it's so much more interesting, partially because requires more concentration than traditional weight training.

avid 04-16-2013 09:45 AM

Exactly.
Having to concentrate on each rep is a strain.
I love the gym...I get the endorphins pumping and feel great.
Having to concentrate on anything other than not pushing myself too hard
is no fun for me at all.

Ntombi 04-17-2013 02:00 AM

Got it.

avid 04-17-2013 06:09 AM

Punkin.....Have you settled on a workout routine?

Punkin 04-17-2013 07:12 AM

Yes. I have a 3 day routine, but I don't know how great it is. I have built muscle mass but have had the same routine for almost 2 years. My issue is still fat loss so the weights are just an attempt for me to return lean mass during the fat loss stage, which seems to be taking forever. I like the weight lifting because it seems to be a better way to retain lean muscle mass than extensive cardio work.

avid 04-17-2013 07:26 AM

Good luck to you punkin:high5:

Trillex 04-17-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16378406)
Yes. I have a 3 day routine, but I don't know how great it is. I have built muscle mass but have had the same routine for almost 2 years. My issue is still fat loss so the weights are just an attempt for me to return lean mass during the fat loss stage, which seems to be taking forever. I like the weight lifting because it seems to be a better way to retain lean muscle mass than extensive cardio work.

I can totally relate, Punkin! I *want* to get some shape-defining hypertrophy -- my "muscle model" is Serena Williams -- and I *think* I'm making good progress, even while eating very low carb, but I still have too much fat to realistically evaluate my progress. So... Sigh... Time will tell.

I work out in a private facility with bodybuilders and the guys all *claim* to see great development -- they're, like, "Look at that shoulder separation!" But that's just because it's becoming easier to see *some* indication of muscle structure under the fat. I could have, literally, not bulked at all and would still be *appearing* more defined at this point just because I've lost 75 pounds. I know that it takes bodybuilding newbies who have great metabolic potential about 2 years to become genuinely contest ready. So, as an obese woman, I should be thrilled with my level of progress over the past 11 months. But it's still difficult to be patient just because I've worked SO hard!

avid 04-17-2013 02:24 PM

Quote:

I know that it takes bodybuilding newbies who have great metabolic potential about 2 years to become genuinely contest ready. So, as an obese woman, I should be thrilled with my level of progress over the past 11 months. But it's still difficult to be patient just because I've worked SO hard!
Hi Trillex, glad to see you posting in the muscle matters forum, your contributions are greatly appreciated.
Do you think you may enter competitive bodybuilding someday?
I know right now you want to be lean and fit, but with your family all involved,
it wouldn't surprise me if you get the bug for competition.

Trillex 04-17-2013 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avid (Post 16379354)
Hi Trillex, glad to see you posting in the muscle matters forum, your contributions are greatly appreciated.
Do you think you may enter competitive bodybuilding someday?
I know right now you want to be lean and fit, but with your family all involved,
it wouldn't surprise me if you get the bug for competition.

You're such a great gentleman, Avid. Your posts are like a friendly handshake!

I absolutely did get the bug for training -- I love it so much! But I have zero desire to get onstage -- my brothers are both hams with great stage presence, but I'm shy and nerdy so it's not my calling. With that said, though, I've grown up with bodybuilders. Not just my brothers, but also my uncles who run a training program in which they've had me *test* their trainees on physiology since I was about 8 years old. So my "gym performance" standards are bodybuilding standards -- when I'm gauging my monthly progress, I'm thinking: hardness, shreds, striations, tie-ins, separation, proportion, symmetry, blah, blah, blah... But let's be real, I've made super rewarding progress but I'm basically a fat girl so that is just the most WRONG set of standards that I could possibly apply to my results. Yet, even consciously knowing this, I can't stop myself from being dissatisfied with what should be super rewarding progress.

To be fair, though, it's karma and I totally deserve to suffer a bit. I've dated bodybuilders, of course, and they have occasionally made the mistake of asking me, "How am I doing? I'm looking cut, right?" And I've wounded some egos with evaluations based on championship standards so I deserve to suffer a bit from my own ingrained level of ridiculous expectations. I've discussed this with my trainer -- who is a super smart guy -- and he thinks this is actually a good thing (or so he told me) because higher standards should push me to achieve the best level of physical conditioning of which I'm capable. "A man's reach should exceed his grasp," he quotes, "Or what's a heaven for?"

avid 04-18-2013 05:49 AM

Awwww.....I never met you but from your generous posts I'm pretty sure that
in no way do you deserve to suffer.
It's great to set goals for advancing our physical, emotional, and spiritual fitness,
but one need not punish themselves to do it.
As for bruising the ego's of some of the men you have dated....LOL it sorta comes with the territory :D
"Pain is mandatory, suffering is optional"

Trillex 04-18-2013 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avid (Post 16380284)
Awwww.....I never met you but from your generous posts I'm pretty sure that
in no way do you deserve to suffer.
It's great to set goals for advancing our physical, emotional, and spiritual fitness,
but one need not punish themselves to do it.
As for bruising the ego's of some of the men you have dated....LOL it sorta comes with the territory :D
"Pain is mandatory, suffering is optional"

You are so kind... As you always are! And you're right, I need to stop being so critical and be kinder to myself, celebrating what I've done instead of creating a punishment around trying to measure it.

I think this process has given me amazing opportunities to grow my character as well as shrink my body mass.

And, actually, two of my ex-boyfriends have been my biggest supporters in this process. I'm a huge fan of your gender! The boys have been really good to me. HaHa!

avid 04-19-2013 02:17 PM

:goodpost:

inatic 04-22-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avid (Post 16349665)
I'm reading a book by Dr. Eades where he recommends slow burn training where you use fewer reps but raise and lower the weights very slowly with a hold at the peak.
I know there are body builders among the LCF'ers. Just wondering what you think of this method?

i'd poke my eyes out LOL. Just cant train that way.

inatic 04-22-2013 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16376546)
Interesting that you found it boring. I think it's so much more interesting, partially because requires more concentration than traditional weight training.

concentration is required on every rep, no matter what tempo you are using.

My A.R.T doc has a satilite office out of a slow 'burn' type 'gym' No way, not for me. Machines for everything pretty much. I prefer free wts.

inatic 04-22-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16378406)
Yes. I have a 3 day routine, but I don't know how great it is. I have built muscle mass but have had the same routine for almost 2 years. My issue is still fat loss so the weights are just an attempt for me to return lean mass during the fat loss stage, which seems to be taking forever. I like the weight lifting because it seems to be a better way to retain lean muscle mass than extensive cardio work.

Cardio doesnt build lean muscle. in most cases, it eats muscle. Short bursts (or HIIT) is more effective in RETAINING muscle. Wt training while dieting and a good diet are protective. Cardio no so much.

awesome you have been dedicated to training and that routin but it would do you a world of good to change up that routine (exercises, sets reps, tempo, etc), Not because you have to confuse muscles, cause that's bull/myth but
building muscle has many phases. You need progressive overload. Time out of a deficit etc to build once you pass your honey moon phase..

avid 04-22-2013 04:50 PM

:goodpost:

Ntombi 04-26-2013 01:08 PM

You don't need to use machines to do high intensity strength training.

And I know you're supposed to concentrate on form, no matter what, but I tend to zone out when I'm lifting more rapidly. That's my bad, but I'm not alone in it.

avid 04-27-2013 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16395552)
You don't need to use machines to do high intensity strength training.

And I know you're supposed to concentrate on form, no matter what, but I tend to zone out when I'm lifting more rapidly. That's my bad, but I'm not alone in it.

No Ntombi, you sure aren't....that 'zoning out' is part of what I love about working out. Like I said, the only thing I concentrate on is not getting injured which is to say proper form and knowing when to stop. As for the "zone out" aspects, I consider myself a spiritual person. Prayer and meditation are a big part of my daily life. When I work out I get 'outsde of my self' in a smililar way. I may be risking a little here, but my lc woe is as much for my spiritual health as well as my physical health. My workout routine is part of this aw well.....I do not believe that we are separate parts. A healthy body includes a healthy mind. Spiritual fitness is at the core of it all.
It's all connected.....and while I'm pontificating .....WE are all connected.

99fenix 05-11-2013 08:00 AM

I do these. I use AST. Essentially you start at lower weights/high reps and transition. For example, say you are doing biceps:20 pounds at 12 reps, slow. 20 pounds at 10 reps, slightly faster, get the blood flowing. 6 reps at 25 pounds, slow. 3 reps at 30, slow, 1 rep at 35/40 (weight acclimation). This is warm up. The actual sets will be 2 sets of 4-6 reps. You only work one main muscle group a week, but will work it again as a secondary. Example, Tuesday is arm day (bi/tri) as a primary, wont use them again primarily until next Tuesday however, thursday may be back day. Several back workouts use biceps as secondary muscles used. I've used this on and off and it works. Trying to dedicate more time with it right now. I don't carb up. It builds muscle and strength if you do it right. I get all my energy from ketones :) Sorry if this is all over the place, rocking 3 hours of sleep.

avid 05-11-2013 02:26 PM

I tried the slow burn technique and couldn't stay with it. Too boring.
I actually don't follow any set 'routines' so to speak. I go to the gym with an idea that
'this is a push day' meaning chest/triceps or a pull day for biceps/back. etc. but I don't have a set routine that I follow for any of it. I use both the machines and the free weights with no real organization about it.
I know my 'method' LOL is not scientific and no doubt costs me some progress. But I learned long ago that a gym membership does nothing for me if I don't use it.
Following routines written out by even the most knowledgeable experts gets old for me. I go regularly and work out as I see fit. I listen to my body, try to keep things balanced, and avoid injury at all costs.
I'm leaner, stronger and fitter than I have been in decades.
And that's really what it's all about right?

99fenix 05-12-2013 08:55 PM

absolutely. i'm fortunate to have a gym in my apartment complex. it's hard to be lazy when the gym is 60 yards from my bed. lol

Trillex 05-15-2013 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avid (Post 16420255)
I know my 'method' LOL is not scientific and no doubt costs me some progress.

Your intuitive approach might actually be a great route to achieving great gains!

Borge Fagerli -- a rockstar Norwegian bodybuilder, bodybuilding coach, and personal trainer -- has a theory that "intuitive" approaches to training, in which the training is customized to follow what the mind is ready to do, produces greater progress than sticking with a set system of progression. He calls it "autoregulation" and he has some complicated philosophies behind it but, basically, he's saying that the individual is the best guide to the level of stimulus that he or she needs. As long as you're working with correct form and a "sufficient load" to challenge your body, Fagerli says that a more intuitive approach will produce greater gains because the training will meet your individual needs.

I am MASSIVELY oversimplifying the theory! And Fagerli definitely uses a set training structure with his clients. But the approach and progression are adjusted according to the mindset and body of each individual in each individual session. Fagerli says:
There are days with less work, and days with more -- it depends on how you feel that day, and when you think about it a good coach would tell you to go home when you're not capable of putting in quality work or to push harder if you're perky and overflowing with energy. Auto-regulation is just a set of rules telling you what a coach would tell you when you're in the gym.

sazzie 05-15-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillex (Post 16425653)
Your intuitive approach might actually be a great route to achieving great gains!

Borge Fagerli -- a rockstar Norwegian bodybuilder, bodybuilding coach, and personal trainer -- has a theory that "intuitive" approaches to training, in which the training is customized to follow what the mind is ready to do, produces greater progress than sticking with a set system of progression. He calls it "autoregulation" and he has some complicated philosophies behind it but, basically, he's saying that the individual is the best guide to the level of stimulus that he or she needs. As long as you're working with correct form and a "sufficient load" to challenge your body, Fagerli says that a more intuitive approach will produce greater gains because the training will meet your individual needs.

I am MASSIVELY oversimplifying the theory! And Fagerli definitely uses a set training structure with his clients. But the approach and progression are adjusted according to the mindset and body of each individual in each individual session. Fagerli says:
There are days with less work, and days with more -- it depends on how you feel that day, and when you think about it a good coach would tell you to go home when you're not capable of putting in quality work or to push harder if you're perky and overflowing with energy. Auto-regulation is just a set of rules telling you what a coach would tell you when you're in the gym.

I found your post to be spot on!

I followed Slow Burn since 09 and just recently decided to do my own thing, and I am reaping the rewards!

My energy level is sky high and I feel so much stronger these days. Actually, I feel freer, knowing that I am not following any set rules. I'm a rebel at heart! :)

Eliminating the boredom and same ole' same ole' has resulted in my desire to go to my gym more often.

I'm following my body's dictates, and like Intuitive Eating, I agree that Intuitive Exercise is a suitable partner.

I'm 73 and continue to be in good health and I'm quite blessed.

Thanks for such an informative post

avid 05-15-2013 11:30 AM

So much good stuff here.
I love having a name for my 'do what i feel like doing" approach. LOL
Now when anyone asks me 'what training regimine do you follow" I can sum it up rather neatly in one word "intuitive" LOL love it.
Trillex YOU are a rockstar!!! :sing:
Sazzie.....so nice to hear from other senior citizen types who are dedicated to strength training. I may be getting older but I ain't getting old. YEEEEHAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW

Trillex 05-17-2013 02:30 PM

Gracie and Avid, you are both MAGNIFICENT!!! You are wonderful inspiration!

My maternal grandmother is much older than you both, and I'm really proud of her because she recently started taking fitness walks. I have never in my life seen this lady wear pants, but she bought some slacks and she's out walking every day now.

A lot of her grandsons are bodybuilders, so I think they will eventually get some weights into her hands! And I've cut and pasted your posts into an email to encourage her. My little grandma is a strong, beautiful lady and I want her to stay that way for a LOT more years, so I hope we can convince her to start some resistance training.

Cheers! Have a wonderful weekend.


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