Question on the TKD for bodybuilding

[Ace-of-Steak]

I've been weighing my options and reading all I can find and which direction I want to go regarding my diet to compliment my lifting.

I have had tremendous success over the past 16 months on my VLC Standard Ketogenic Diet.

I am currently at a cycle in my lifting where I'm doing mid max circuit training for the remainder of the month in preparation of going in to a serious 4 day split plan of heavy lifting starting April 1st.

From my research, I have concluded that The Targeted Ketogenic Diet is my best choice to work with my weight lifting goals.

From what I understand, I should be in the range of 25-50 carbs 1/2 hr. prior to lifting and take Glutamine and Glycine post workout.

What I haven't come across, in all that I've read is... what type of carbs should I be ingesting pre workout? I have read everything from: It doesn't matter to liquid carbohydrates to bagels or cut oats.

If you are knowledgeable on this subject and can fill me in, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

[inatic]

have your read lyle mcdonalds stuff? he has some great info on TKD.

i'd not waste money on the glutamine and glycine post workout. It doesnt do a thing.. though cheap to take if you chose too.

[Ace-of-Steak]

No I haven't read McDonald's book on the ketogenic diet but I did just look it up and apparently it's the one I need to to add to my library... so thanks for the suggestion.

Still looking for a heads up on what type of carbs people eat on a TKD pre workout.

Anyone?

[Stackdiesel]

Greg,

I use glucose tablets for pre-and-post workout carbs during a TKD. They are shuttled directly to muscle glycogen stores.

Edited to add: And thus give the maximum benefit of the TKD carb-up with the least impact on getting back into ketosis.

-Stack

[Ace-of-Steak]

Hey Stack,

Thanks for your reply. Regard the carbs you ingest pre or post workout while you're on a TKD... are they basically fat/sugar free starches such as oats? Seems everyone has a their own opinion.

I am going to order a copy of Lyle McD's Ketogenic Diet book. Off his site 49.95 new... on ebay 117.00 used lol, go figure.

[Stackdiesel]

Greg,

I only use the glucose tablets; I don't eat any "real" carb foods. 4g of carbs per tablet, and I eat 10 pre-workout and 15 post-workout for a 40g/60g pre-and-post workout carb intake.

I haven't run a TKD in a while, but it seemed to work pretty well before, and this is what I'll do again if I decide to run a TKD.

Lyle's book is well worth the money.

-Stack

[Ace-of-Steak]

Very interesting Stack!

This seems like an attractive option to me as I have quite a bit of skepticism (and fears) with carb loads as I have lost all my weight staying on a very strict VLC - SKD plan and haven't gone off plan once.

When you were doing your TKD, was this during a cutting or bulking phase for you?

[Stackdiesel]

Cutting phase. I've never done a "clean" bulk.

Given your history of success with the SKD, I think the glucose tabs would be a good route for you, as they should cause the least, or shortest, disruption to ketosis. With your discipline, I don't think you'd have a problem with eating targeted carbs, and I know from your posts that you're not looking for a reason to eat some - you just want to optimize your training and whatever positive metabolic and hormonal effects may be gained from targeted carb-ups, which makes the glucose tabs a good choice.

Interestingly, as I'm doling out advice about CKD's and TKD's, Matt (Yorick) and I are running an extended (for us) SKD for at least 4 weeks to see if we become sufficiently ketoadapted for intense training.

-Stack

[Ace-of-Steak]

Many thanks for your advice Stack! You're right on the money with my intentions and goals.

Good luck with your SKD plan with Matt... both of you are serious inspiration for me.

[Stackdiesel]

Greg,

Glad to offer whatever advice I can. You are a motivator for me as well, as an example of what happens when you decide on a plan, follow it to a "T," and stay with it long enough to allow it to work.

-Stack

[dbglasgow]

This is what Lyle McDonalds e-book says:

Amounts, types and timing of carbs:
The major goal with pre-workout carbs is not necessarily to improve performance,
although that is a nice benefit. Primarily, the goal is to provide enough carbohydrate to promote
post-workout glycogen synthesis without interrupting ketosis for very long. That is, the
carbohydrate taken prior to one workout is really an attempt to ‘set up’ the body for better
performance at the next workout by maintaining glycogen levels.
Although experimentation is encouraged, most individuals find that 25-50 grams of
carbohydrates taken thirty minutes before a workout enhance performance. The type of
carbohydrate consumed pre-workout is not critical and individuals are encouraged to experiment
with different types of carbs. Most seem to prefer easily digestible carbohydrates, either liquids
or high Glycemic Index (GI) candies to avoid problems with stomach upset during training. A
wide variety of foods have been used prior to workouts: glucose polymers, Sweet Tarts, bagels,
and food bars; all result in improved performance.

Ace: I'd like to know how this works for you. I too lost weight on VLC but I'm trying to find the best way to add carbs in around workouts... so I've read the ebook by McDonald and trying to decide if a CKD or a TKD would work best for me... from what I've read it seems that the CKD works best for high intensity training.

Best of luck with your training.