Cardio (and Body Pump) instructor - will Burn the fat, feed the muscle work for me?

[joye2world]

Hi Friends-
I am interesed in Tom Venturo's plan- but I do a lot of cardio- I love what I teach, and since it is my job, I cannot not stop. I teach 3 Body Combats, 1 spinning, and take one Body Jam (cardio dance) a week. In addition- 2 gentle yoga, 3 body pump (full body weight work out) and an occasional subbing gig for any of the above. I am worried about not having energy for class or to take care of my family afterwards- as has been the case for me in the past. This program looks very good, and it seemes like many have had excellent success. I am hoping to lose 10 lbs of body fat and gain some more muscle and definition.

any thoughts? Thanks, so very much!

Joye

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by joye2world

Hi Friends-
I am interesed in Tom Venturo's plan- but I do a lot of cardio- I love what I teach, and since it is my job, I cannot not stop. I teach 3 Body Combats, 1 spinning, and take one Body Jam (cardio dance) a week. In addition- 2 gentle yoga, 3 body pump (full body weight work out) and an occasional subbing gig for any of the above. I am worried about not having energy for class or to take care of my family afterwards- as has been the case for me in the past. This program looks very good, and it seemes like many have had excellent success. I am hoping to lose 10 lbs of body fat and gain some more muscle and definition.

any thoughts? Thanks, so very much!

Joye

I am sure you already know this, but doing extended cardio is not necessarily effective in getting really lean. I know you love the cardio, but extending cardio in an attempt to get really lean generally results in a dramatic loss of lean body mass. I suspect this is the reason for your interest in Venturo's BFFM. From everything I have seen, this is a quite reasonable treatment of the topic. But let me ask you. BFFM will tell you about nutrition, supplement, weight training and cardio. Do you really think after hanging around here that you need more info on nutrition (or even supplements)? Are you not already an expert on cardio?

What you really need is a good weight training program. Why don't you just focus on that? The key truth in BFFM is that by building muscle, you boost your metabolism and that actually food becomes the fuel for that transformation. You probably already know that. I might suggestion you look at the New Rules of Lifting (Amazon.com: The New Rules of Lifting for Women: Lift Like a... ) or Starting Strength (Amazon.com: Starting Strength (2nd edition): Mark Rippetoe,... and http://startingstrengthwiki.com). I would actually recommend SS. You are already at the gym and the equipment should all be there. You can do the program in three hours a week and it really works well.

[inatic]

BFFM is more of a nutrition program. You can get lean following it. My experience after working with a coach that does not advocate a butt load of cardio is that bffm is too much cardio way to soon but the diet ideas are pretty sound, it helped me lean down quite a bit. We do carb tapering, etc too. I;ve been working with an online coach for the last few yrs.

For training ideas, BFFM stinks. I second the recommendation for new rules of lifting or starting strength.

[KajunDC]

Getting rid of body fat is mostly about nutrition so BFFM is great for that. New Rules of Lifting is absolutely fantastic for building muscle, which burns much more calories post workout than cardio does during a workout.

If you enjoy what you are doing, and since it is your job , keep doing it of course. Do your weightlifting prior to any cardio so you have the energy for the weights. Your energy levels for the cardio may diminish slightly early on but your body should adapt in no time. (This is honestly also an issue of nutritional timing as much as anything else.) You could also incorporate some resistance in with your cardio classes. Your pupils would benefit much more that way as well.

Good luck.

[ChrisNTX]

Originally Posted by KajunDC

Getting rid of body fat is mostly about nutrition so BFFM is great for that. New Rules of Lifting is absolutely fantastic for building muscle, which burns much more calories post workout than cardio does during a workout.

If you enjoy what you are doing, and since it is your job , keep doing it of course. Do your weightlifting prior to any cardio so you have the energy for the weights. Your energy levels for the cardio may diminish slightly early on but your body should adapt in no time. (This is honestly also an issue of nutritional timing as much as anything else.) You could also incorporate some resistance in with your cardio classes. Your pupils would benefit much more that way as well.

Good luck.

You said building muscle burns much more calories post workout than cardio does during a workout. I assume you're referring to EPOC? You mind posting a reference or elaborating a bit if you don't mind as I don't entirely agree with that statement.

[joye2world]

Thanks- I am looking for a nutrition program, but I am planning to check out these books on lifting, also. As an instructor for Les Mill's Body Pump, I do a full body barbell work out at least 2 times a week, but I need to encorporate weights beyond the group ex arena. I love what I do, I have a good handle on healthy eating, and I have lost almost 80 lbs- from an 18 to an 8- but I am not a dietician or nutritionist- I am in fact forbidden by the gyms to dispense nutriction advice beyond "eat healthy" because it is not my job. I am looking for a eating program that will allow mean to lean up as I maintain my cardio and add a more intense weight training program. Thanks, again, for all of your help, is there anywhere on this site to see food diaries for this program? I worry about all the protein!

thanks, so much!

[inatic]

there isnt here but tom venuto his his own (paid) site if you google bffm.

[KajunDC]

Originally Posted by ChrisNTX

You said building muscle burns much more calories post workout than cardio does during a workout. I assume you're referring to EPOC? You mind posting a reference or elaborating a bit if you don't mind as I don't entirely agree with that statement.

I have many references at home. (I'm in Canada right now for Christmas/New Year's so I won't have access to them to post them until Jan. 5)

But it has been proven time and time again that cardio does not burn anywhere near the calories or fat that weightlifting does. One major problem with cardio is the law of diminishing returns. Remember the first time you did strenuous cardio? Remember how sore and out of breath you were? Does it continue to remain that difficult to do over time? No. Why? Because your body is adapting and becoming much more efficient at what it is doing. Now, when you car becomes more efficient, does it burn more gas or less gas? (Answer - less gas). Same thing happens with the body. Over time, the same amount of cardio causes you to burn fewer and fewer calories.

I will post the studies you want after I return home. And also post a study that showed cardio actually resulted in an increase in body fat over time - pretty interesting stuff.

[inatic]

i'd assume if you did the same wt routine the same thing would happen. HIIT however does burn more cals pwo.

Your body will adapt to any routine and thus would need to change, same with cardio and even hiit, at least that is what i've experienced with myself.

I've heard that study where running actually caused wt gain.. Some about the 'Kobe effect?'

[ChrisNTX]

Originally Posted by KajunDC

I have many references at home. (I'm in Canada right now for Christmas/New Year's so I won't have access to them to post them until Jan. 5)

But it has been proven time and time again that cardio does not burn anywhere near the calories or fat that weightlifting does. One major problem with cardio is the law of diminishing returns. Remember the first time you did strenuous cardio? Remember how sore and out of breath you were? Does it continue to remain that difficult to do over time? No. Why? Because your body is adapting and becoming much more efficient at what it is doing. Now, when you car becomes more efficient, does it burn more gas or less gas? (Answer - less gas). Same thing happens with the body. Over time, the same amount of cardio causes you to burn fewer and fewer calories.

I will post the studies you want after I return home. And also post a study that showed cardio actually resulted in an increase in body fat over time - pretty interesting stuff.

I'm just curious as to how you have come to this conclusion that cardio doesn't not burn more calories then weightlifting. What type of cardio are you comparing to the weightlifting session? Intensity and duration is also a factor also.

When the body adapts to a particular stress, it becomes fitter, not necessarily more efficient. Increased fitness and efficiency while might seem similar are not one in the same. Comparing efficiency of the human body to a vehicle is like comparing apples to oranges. The human body is an organism that can and will adapt to the specfic stress imposed upon it by becoming fitter. A vehicle is a machine with no adaptive capabilities, so it cannot "become more" efficient as you alluded to. The only way a vehicle can become more efficient would be to actually go under the hood and replace parts with more efficent parts etc.

The EPOC or postworkout calorie burn that you referred to a couple of posts ago is not significant enough to invalidate the usage of traditional steady state type cardio as a means to increase caloric expenditure.

If you have any studies comparing the caloric expenditure and EPOC of a steady state cardio session with a moderate to intense intensity level and a weight training session of the same duration, I would like to see that.

[joye2world]

Thanks so much for all your info!
I am on day 3 of BFFM and feel great! Even with my crazy cardio demands.

I appreciate your knowledge, personal perspective and experience-

Happy New Year,

Joye

[JuliaL]

Here's one article that confirms what Kajun is saying:

Kardio kween

myth #1:
aerobic exercise is the only way to lose fat
On paper, fat loss is relatively simple. All you do is expend more calories than you take in. You do this by adjusting your caloric intake (in other words, changing your diet) and perhaps getting more activity. But more activity doesn't have to be aerobic activity for fat loss to occur. Many folks are able to lose fat quite well with weight lifting alone, both because of the extra calorie demand of the activity, and because of the retention of muscle which weight training facilitates. This is not to say that you shouldn't do cardio when trying to lose weight. Indeed, for women, cardio may play a more significant role in fat loss than men because of hormonal differences in the way that fat is mobilized. But aerobic activity is not the only way to lose fat, and it should be only one part of a fat loss plan.

myth #2:
aerobic activity is the only path to good health and longevity
Weight trainers used to be considered terminally unhealthy meat mountains who were immobilized in their steak prison. Snooty joggers and jazzercisers turned up their noses at the iron freaks who were viewed as steroid-laden, narcissistic, and above all, not long for this world. Current research now shows us that the fountain of youth may be iron after all. Study after study shows that weight training has benefits for young and old, athletes and plain folks, rehab and recreation. Indeed, recent theory suggests that large amounts of endurance-type cardio provoke oxidative processes which lead to eventual degeneration and decay. Additionally, higher intensities but shorter durations of cardio-type activity are turning out to be superior to lower intensity, long duration bouts for both fat loss and overall conditioning (Tremblay et al; Metabolism 43: 814-818 (1994)).

[ChrisNTX]

That article didn't really confirm anything. What was it supposed to confirm?

[KajunDC]

I will be posting the studies when I get home from work tonight. We arrived from our trip late last night and I did not get to pull out my research material.

But think about it, Chris. The body does get more fit, meaning your workout and resting heart rate lowers. If you do activities that will lower your heart rate, you necessarily slow your metabolism. Our bodies do adapt to burn less calories. That is our innate survival mechanism.

But fear not, all the peer-reviewed research will be posted tonight... while I watch the Fiesta Bowl.

[ChrisNTX]

Originally Posted by KajunDC

I will be posting the studies when I get home from work tonight. We arrived from our trip late last night and I did not get to pull out my research material.

But think about it, Chris. The body does get more fit, meaning your workout and resting heart rate lowers. If you do activities that will lower your heart rate, you necessarily slow your metabolism. Our bodies do adapt to burn less calories. That is our innate survival mechanism.

But fear not, all the peer-reviewed research will be posted tonight... while I watch the Fiesta Bowl.

True, that as cardiorespiratory fitness increases, resting heart rate will decrease as an adaptive response to an exercise/stress. However, increased heart rate doesn't always mean or equal an increase in metabolism. An increase in heart rate is a physiological response to an internal or external stressor.

An increase or decrease in metabolism is generally influenced by four factors: resting metabolic rate, thermic affect of activity, thermic effect of food and adaptive thermogenesis or NEAT(non-exercise adaptive thermogenesis).

An increase in any of the four factors will lead to an increase in caloric expenditure. Since every workload will expend X amount of energy, an increase in workload will obviously expend more energy. The increase in heart rate is just the response to the demands of the activity. Over time, as the body adapts and gets fitter, while the workload will remain the same(assuming no changes in intensity, duration etc), the heart rate will decrease as an adaptation.

If one doesn't change the workload(intensity,rate, distance etc), how will that decrease the metabolism(thermic effect of food) as you alluded to?

I probably won't be able to respond until tomorrow as I don't have access to a computer after this.

[inatic]

If one doesn't change the workload(intensity,rate, distance etc), how will that decrease the metabolism(thermic effect of food) as you alluded to?

if you arent as effective in burning the calories (through expenditure ) then you arent going to continue to burn the same cals(over time)

also wanted to add that if your losing fat/wt during this time you also wont get the same cal expenditure. We were talking about this on my leanbodies fitness BB.. Some in this case are thinking of implementing a wt'd vest to offset the loss of cals expended.

or did i miss something (not meant snarky)

[ChrisNTX]

Originally Posted by inatic

if you arent as effective in burning the calories (through expenditure ) then you arent going to continue to burn the same cals(over time)

also wanted to add that if your losing fat/wt during this time you also wont get the same cal expenditure. We were talking about this on my leanbodies fitness BB.. Some in this case are thinking of implementing a wt'd vest to offset the loss of cals expended.

or did i miss something (not meant snarky)

A weight/fatloss would constitute a reduction in the amount of work being done, hence reduced caloric expenditure. You are absolutely right. I however, was referring to a constant workload. Thanks for mentioning that though

[KajunDC]

I have several studies posted on a new thread in the Muscle Matters board.

Sorry I did not get this up last night but I fell asleep during the Fiesta Bowl.

I have dozens of these referenced studies and posted about 5 or 6.

[inatic]

for future reference, linking here.

Studies on exercise - Steady state vs HIIT vs Weight Lifting...