Weight Lifting Challenge: October / November 2008!!

[BrianSCohen]

Wednesday night workout

Squat - Light day, trying out the new belt on top sets.
Military Press - 4 reps on new PR
Deadlift - Only 4 reps on new PR ***

HS Pullovers

My new medicine is leaving me with rock solid low blood sugar numbers. 82 mg/dl before dinner and then 84 mg/dl after dinner. I was actually tempted to down some carbs before workout.

I am a bit bummed about not hitting my reps. If I stall at this deadlift weight, I will have only put on 20 lbs on my deadlifts over 12 weeks. The belt did not seem to help that much, I think it is my grip giving out. I guess I am going to press on the current stalls for a few more weeks and see if I can break through.

[traycon]

Originally Posted by BrianSCohen

Wednesday night workout

Squat - Light day, trying out the new belt on top sets.
Military Press - 4 reps on new PR
Deadlift - Only 4 reps on new PR ***

HS Pullovers

My new medicine is leaving me with rock solid low blood sugar numbers. 82 mg/dl before dinner and then 84 mg/dl after dinner. I was actually tempted to down some carbs before workout.

I am a bit bummed about not hitting my reps. If I stall at this deadlift weight, I will have only put on 20 lbs on my deadlifts over 12 weeks. The belt did not seem to help that much, I think it is my grip giving out. I guess I am going to press on the current stalls for a few more weeks and see if I can break through.

Can you use those wrist strap things to help with your grip?

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by traycon

Can you use those wrist strap things to help with your grip?

I have wrist straps, but I have not used them. Perhaps you are right. I suppose I could also do some grip training.

[Bobby]

Are you having problems with your grip doing the dead lifts or is it just too heavy to lift? I would suggest grip training over wrist straps unless you're doing rack pulls.

Is the weight stalling from the start or finish? If it's at the top you can work in some heavy rack pulls if it's from the start maybe do deficient dead lifts IE: stand on plates or a pallet/platform and work on your starting pull. Are you wearing your belt for dead lift as well as squats?

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by Bobby

Are you having problems with your grip doing the dead lifts or is it just too heavy to lift? I would suggest grip training over wrist straps unless you're doing rack pulls.

Is the weight stalling from the start or finish? If it's at the top you can work in some heavy rack pulls if it's from the start maybe do deficient dead lifts IE: stand on plates or a pallet/platform and work on your starting pull. Are you wearing your belt for dead lift as well as squats?

For the most part, my deadlift progress has been limited by my grip. I deload each rep, but find that my biggest struggle is not in any weak point of the lift itself, but hanging on for dear life with my hands. At the completion of the final lift, my hands even look funky with the blood squeezed out. I don't get sore in my quads or back after deadlifts, but in my hands. I did wear my new belt for my last deadlift, but it can't really help if my weakpoint is grip.

I actually have a forearm roller at home. And of course, I could always do wrist curls and extensions. What I don't have are grippers. I had thought that repeated work near my max on the deadlift would increase my grip strength, but perhaps it is just lagging. I might try to rack pulls as you suggest and just do holds with heavier weight. That might help.

[Bobby]

Originally Posted by BrianSCohen

For the most part, my deadlift progress has been limited by my grip. I deload each rep, but find that my biggest struggle is not in any weak point of the lift itself, but hanging on for dear life with my hands. At the completion of the final lift, my hands even look funky with the blood squeezed out. I don't get sore in my quads or back after deadlifts, but in my hands. I did wear my new belt for my last deadlift, but it can't really help if my weakpoint is grip.

OK, what I would suggest first is wear your belt on all your work sets, get used to useing it. Not just wearing it but use it for support by building abdominal pressure against it.
Are you useing a double over hand grip on all your deadlift reps, or do you use one hand over and one hand under?

Originally Posted by BrianSCohen

I actually have a forearm roller at home. And of course, I could always do wrist curls and extensions. What I don't have are grippers. I had thought that repeated work near my max on the deadlift would increase my grip strength, but perhaps it is just lagging. I might try to rack pulls as you suggest and just do holds with heavier weight. That might help.

I wouldn't worry too much about grippers, I have a whole set of them and don't use them to train my grip. They are cool if you want to train for a crushing grip. I don't use the forearm roller either, I did in the past a couple of times but I already have fair sized forearms from lifting weights/genetics. But forearm size doesn't make a strong grip either. What I've found helps with holding grip is useing a fat bar/axle or timed holds. You don't have to use maximal weight for timed holds to work your grip, so you don't need to do them in the rack. Also, as you had mentioned trying timed holds with maximal weight, just do that off the floor, but in stead of doing 4-6 reps or what ever rep scheme you're useing, just go for max singles for grip. Also, have you ever tried a hook grip? That is when you wrap the bar with your thumb first and then wrap your index finger over the thumb useing a paralell grip, both hands over hand.

Do your grip training after your workouts and make sure you don't over do it. Like if you're going to do back day and train your grip after make sure you have a few days between that and say leg day when you're going to need your grip again to do straight leg deadlifts or Romanian deadlifts for hamstrings. Use your straps for things like romanian deadlifts too so it doesn't over tax your grip and you can use more weight to train your posterior chain.

Some people do plate pinching for grip training and swear by it as well as other grip training techniques(there's a lot of free information on the web) But I find just holding the bars is the best way to get my grip up to where it needs to be. That said, my grip isn't nearly as strong as some and it has failed me on occasion, usually after I've jambed a finger or I haven't been lifting like I'm supposed to ie: took a long time off.

That was bit long winded, I hope it helps.

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by Bobby

OK, what I would suggest first is wear your belt on all your work sets, get used to useing it. Not just wearing it but use it for support by building abdominal pressure against it.
Are you useing a double over hand grip on all your deadlift reps, or do you use one hand over and one hand under?

Bobby,

Those are all great tips. I do know how to use the belt, I should get better with practice. I do use double overhand up to the final one or two heaviest work sets, then use alternated grip. I do think your suggestions on advanced techniques to break through this plateau would help, however, I am thinking that it may just be time for a programming change. I have been on this program for nearly six months. My deadlift is not bad. My squat is still my strongest lift. My pressing and overhead work is still relatively lagging. I think I am going to press on headfirst for a few more weeks trying to make progress while I figure out what direction to go next.

[BrianSCohen]

Friday night workout

Squat - 3 reps at PR using the new belt
Bench Press - 1 reps on new PR
Row - 3 reps on PR

Weighted Dips
HS Pullovers

Things are really pointing to a major stall again. I think I can make some more progress on my squat with the new belt. But at this point my bench, row, military press and deadlift are all stalled. My workout partner is in a similar situation, although he is still moving up in his squat and deadlift.

Thus on Sunday we chose an alternate workout. Supposed to be a break.

Sunday Morning

5x5 pyramid DB bench press
3x8 pyramid DB incline press
3x8 pyramid superset single leg extension/leg curl *
3x8 leg press
3x8 lat pulldown
3x8 pec fly
3x8 tricep pushdown

* I did learn that I have some imbalance, my left hamstring has gotten stronger than my right, go figure. Single leg versions of these exercises can be useful.

I can't remember the last time I visited the gym and did not squat. When I looked over at the squat rack, I think it missed me.

[inatic]

unless you going for 90% or over on your lifting, you dont not need a belt.

I'd not be limiting my lifting because of grip. You can do farmers walks etc to build grip strength while still using your wraps at a point that your grip is giving out.

There'd be no way id be dl's 275 or 295 for reps without my wraps and Im not willing to sacarific growth because of it either or rack pulling 3plates either

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by inatic

unless you going for 90% or over on your lifting, you dont not need a belt.

I'd not be limiting my lifting because of grip. You can do farmers walks etc to build grip strength while still using your wraps at a point that your grip is giving out.

There'd be no way id be dl's 275 or 295 for reps without my wraps and Im not willing to sacarific growth because of it either or rack pulling 3plates either

I am following a 5x5 routine, and it involves top sets above 90% every workout. See http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm. I do think I will give the straps a go.

A dl 275 with double overhand is quite impressive!!!

[inatic]

i love my wraps. I use the versa gripps cause im too spastic to work the regular ones.

thank you

[Bobby]

I did workout last night/this morning. I didn't finish what was planned, no accessory work or abs, but I did get the planned major lifts done. I went to the chiropractor this morning and got adjusted and made an appointment for Monday morning. Hopefully my energy levels and breathing will pick back up soon.

I did start out doing log presses and axle cleans first before doing the front squats. I think that's the way to go from now on, my hips don't feel nearly as beat up. Also I reread some stuff on front squats and realized my stance was too wide and I was going too deep. I was going all the way down instead of going to parallel. That's why my hips were getting so beaten up. So I set up a 15 inch box to squat down too.

Log Press
175x5
195x3
220x2

Axle Cleans
135x5
155x3
170x0 Felt something pop in the middle of my palm as I was lowering the bar. It seems fine, but it felt weird so I stopped there.

Continental Cleans
180 plus 5 presses
200 plus 5 presses
220 one clean, no presses, lost my air

Front Squats
170x5
190x3
215x3

Then I did 1 set of 10, slight incline on the DB Bench Press using 70's. After that I just didn't feel like doing any more. I'll try and get some more stuff done in the next couple of days. I don't think I'll hit it too hard as we have a comp on Saturday.

[inatic]

you are supposed to go past parallel on a front squat and full squats. The wide stance would hit your hips.

Do you use dymamic warm ups and stretch?

[Bobby]

Originally Posted by inatic

you are supposed to go past parallel on a front squat and full squats. The wide stance would hit your hips.

Do you use dymamic warm ups and stretch?

Yep, that's what I was reading, the disciption on exrx said just passed parallel.
Barbell Front Squat
I thought I was supposed to go down to where my thighs were pressed against my calves. And you're right the wide stance was beating up my hips pretty bad.

I did a couple of sets of weightess squats and a little stretching, very little really, after I did my hypers and before I started the log presses.

Thanks

[inatic]

Exrx isnt the best site.. I"d rather you pop over to crossfit or the starting strength site(their book is excellent by the way)
Or here.. This guy has a WHOLE series just on squatting.. This one is the front.

YouTube - Squat Rx #15: The Front Squat

[Bobby]

Thanks, I'll check it out when I get home, I can't see it here at work.

[traycon]

Did legs yesterday & chest, shoulders & tris today. Didn't go for any PRs...been pressed for time while I am there.

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by inatic

Exrx isnt the best site.. I"d rather you pop over to crossfit or the starting strength site(their book is excellent by the way)
Or here.. This guy has a WHOLE series just on squatting.. This one is the front.

OMG! You found the doctor. He really helped me. You can find all the prescriptions on his blog Squat Rx

One thing you might find helpful when squatting is to remember to sit between your legs. If you just try to bend at your hips without sitting between your legs, you will put extra stress on your hips.

I also really back up Ileen's suggestion to look at starting strength. The book has really detailed explanations of squatting. There are a bunch of websites on starting strength, but the one I like is at Starting Strength Wiki

[BrianSCohen]

Wednesday night workout

Squat - 5 reps at PR using the new belt
Bench Press - 2 reps on new PR
Row - 5 reps on PR

Assisted pull ups

The belt seems to have made some difference on the squats.

[Bobby]

Originally Posted by inatic

Exrx isnt the best site.. I"d rather you pop over to crossfit or the starting strength site(their book is excellent by the way)
Or here.. This guy has a WHOLE series just on squatting.. This one is the front.

YouTube - Squat Rx #15: The Front Squat

Thanks Ileen!!

I just got a chance to see it and it's a a great video.

[Bobby]

I had a great time Saturday at the KCStrongman Challenge. I hit 3 PR's. One PR on a Max Axle Press for 230. One PR for flipping two bigger tires I hadn't flipped before, one was 750 I flipped it 3 times and the other they call 750+ I got it flipped once. The last PR was for loading a 300 lb Atlas stone to 48 inches on the Max Stone load event.

[inatic]

Originally Posted by BrianSCohen

OMG! You found the doctor. He really helped me. You can find all the prescriptions on his blog Squat Rx

One thing you might find helpful when squatting is to remember to sit between your legs. If you just try to bend at your hips without sitting between your legs, you will put extra stress on your hips.

I also really back up Ileen's suggestion to look at starting strength. The book has really detailed explanations of squatting. There are a bunch of websites on starting strength, but the one I like is at Starting Strength Wiki

Brian, can you elaborate on what 'sitting between your legs' means?

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by inatic

Brian, can you elaborate on what 'sitting between your legs' means?

I squat with a low bar squat as taught by Rip in Starting Strength. I don't keep my back vertical, I fold my body shown below in the center of the cover.




If you maintain too narrow a stance, without pointing your toes out, your thighs will come up against your torso as you squat down in the whole. This will place stress on your hips. Notice how the thighs sit outside the chest in the diagram. That is what I mean by sitting between my legs. Hope that helps.

[BrianSCohen]

Friday night workout

Squat - Light day
Military Press - 4 reps on new PR, still stalled at this weight
Deadlift - All 5 reps on new PR *

* This is a milestone. I used my straps as Ileen suggested as well as my new belt. I had more left in the tank and was even able to shrug the last rep. I'll probably be able to move up a bit further with the straps.

Sunday workout

Squat - 3 reps at new PR **
Bench - Total fail at new PR ***
Row - 3 reps at new PR

Weighted Dips

** I got the three reps, but the second rep had bad form. I'll try for 5 reps at next workout, but I may have to consider it a fail if I can't do it with good form.

*** I go no reps this time. Last time at least I got 1. Actually regressing.

I am now to the point where all my lifts are stalling or nearly stalled at PRs. I am building up momentum to either reset or a make a change in my workout.

[LoraJR72]

Really off topic but I need your opinion. Has anyone heard of the Slow Burn Method? If you have, what do you think of it? My trainer and ex-trainer both give it the thumbs down.

TIA!!

[Bobby]

Originally Posted by LoraJR72

Really off topic but I need your opinion. Has anyone heard of the Slow Burn Method? If you have, what do you think of it? My trainer and ex-trainer both give it the thumbs down.

TIA!!

I wouldn't do it. I don't see how doing reps in an exaggerated slow speed in both directions can be beneficial. I'm not a fan of negatives either but can see where they might help, I just don't do them. That's simply my humble opinion, I hope it helps.

Originally Posted by BrianSCohen

If you maintain too narrow a stance, without pointing your toes out, your thighs will come up against your torso as you squat down in the whole. This will place stress on your hips. Notice how the thighs sit outside the chest in the diagram. That is what I mean by sitting between my legs. Hope that helps.

That's what I was trying to do on the front squat. But I must be putting my stance too far apart as it was making my hips very sore. Maybe I need to point my toes out more then?

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by Bobby

That's what I was trying to do on the front squat. But I must be putting my stance too far apart as it was making my hips very sore. Maybe I need to point my toes out more then?

If you don't point your toes out some (about 30 deg according to Rip), then when your knees go over your feet, your thighs may press on your torso, hence hip stress. Does that make sense? Anyway, you may give it a try and see if it helps.

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by LoraJR72

Really off topic but I need your opinion. Has anyone heard of the Slow Burn Method? If you have, what do you think of it? My trainer and ex-trainer both give it the thumbs down.

TIA!!

There is a thread on this, and Fred Hahn the author has posted on that thread (Slow Burn - Fred Hahn).

In that thread I noted:

Originally Posted by BrianSCohen

I have not used the Slow Burn program so take my comments with a grain of salt. I have read the book and I am however familiar with the long line of training philosophy on these techniques. The techniques advocated by Arthur Jones and people who followed his teachings focused on high intensity training. El Darden really puts foward measured timed sets, making large "inroads," and allowing generous recovery. This book is a modern spin on these techniques.

In all these techniques, and in Slow Burn, intensity is the key. If you are the type of person who can drive yourself, or if you have coaching or workout partners who can help you with intensity, I believe most people can be very successful with this sort of program. If you wimp out, don't push yourself and give out just because it is uncomfortable, then this may not be the program for you.

I would add that you can find additional information on similar older method called "Super Slow" by Dr. Ken Hutchins. I do think these techniques work, but as a beginner, it really helps to have a coach, and you will only be successful if you push yourself with the intensity.

I would tend to ignore your trainers views. There is a significant disagreement between trainers who utilize give high volume, low weight circuit based programs and the wider community of people who actually know something about weight training. If your trainer is bad mouthing a program while having you do pink dumbell curls while bouncing on a swiss ball, you can pretty much discount anything coming out of their mouth.

[LoraJR72]

Hi, Brian,

Thanks! Definitely not using pink dumbbells or any sort of Swiss balls. LOL Lots of free weights, kettle bells, dragging the sled around the gym, and plyometrics. My new trainer has me doing a few things on my own (such as abs and a pilates class) and cardio is limited to only 20 minutes after training.

I just can't see doing one set of reps. I found Fred's book in the library and looking through it.

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by LoraJR72

Hi, Brian,

Thanks! Definitely not using pink dumbbells or any sort of Swiss balls. LOL Lots of free weights, kettle bells, dragging the sled around the gym, and plyometrics. My new trainer has me doing a few things on my own (such as abs and a pilates class) and cardio is limited to only 20 minutes after training.

I just can't see doing one set of reps. I found Fred's book in the library and looking through it.

Until you try the protocol for slow burn you won't appreciate the effect. Normally, you will perform 3 sets of 8 reps, with a speed that is as fast as possible while maintaining full control. You typically will complete set within 20 seconds. The total time under tension is very modest. In the slow protocols, you used much slower positive and negative movements and you may spend 60-90 minutes in the movement. Done properly, the intensity and duration of the slow approach is just as challenging. The "inroad" and level of fatigue from a single slow burn set can be as much if not more than a regular 3x8.