BFFM Questions

[DiamondDeb]

OK, BFFM experts, here come the questions! These are just a few mostly nutrition questions for starters.

• How often do you read your affirmations/goals? Do you write them out daily? I know this is a powerful tool.
• How long was your list of affirmations when you started? Mine is not as long is the list in the book. I figure I will add to the list as they come to me.
• What percent of calories did you take off for fat loss?
• Calorie Cycling ~ (sorry, Tom, no-can-do zig zag ) Did/do you do 3 low days/1 at maintenence or did you use maintenence plus 5%? I'm thinking probably maintenence.
• Tapering ~ Did/do you taper calories in all meals or keep 2-4 the same?
• I know we all need to do what works best for ourselves, but what ratio did/do you use? Did you start at 50(C)/30(P)/20(F)? I suspect that may be a bit high in carbs for me, but maybe wait & see? I usually do protein at 50.
• Did/do you cycle the ratios sometimes? How often? I like that idea!
• Are you using flax or CLO? I am going to use CLO because I am not sure my body would be able to utilize it; many people can't. I know CLO will work.

If you know some of the answer to questions I haven't asked yet, feel free to post them.

TIA!

[nonstickpam107]

Well, as you said everyone's different (more or less, more in MY case, lol).

I'm using a 40/30/30 type eating % (it's never 'right on' though...lately I see my fat slipping down to more like 22-25% all by itself just from eating good whole food). I can't use flaxseed, it messes with my thyroid and my T4 to T3 conversion...I get my fiber from veggies and oats. I do believe because I take a comprehensive EFA x3 daily (borage oil, CLA, ALA, dry E, 3, 6, 9, etc. all in one), an allergy multi and things just work themselves out (no pun intended).

I eat my 'usual' calories (around 1500 -1600) for three days, then a higher cal day (1800 -2100) next, then back to three regular days and that's working very well for me. My carbs on my usual days are around 55-65 net (keep in mind I cannot have any wheat/gluten, peas, legumes, peanuts, beans, etc. so I'm eating a massive amount of veggies here). My high day for carbs goes more toward 85 or so net. I eat all my 'high carb' stuff like oats and swt. tators within the first three meals of the 5 a day. Always. I don't take a 'cheat' or free DAY with the nutrition, I will have something once a week at a free meal. If I dare have chocolate, or whipped cream, I'm doomed so it's not in the house.

My 'list' of affirmations runs about nine or ten to the list. Number one is always "To get fitter in order to increase lung function" and runs all the way down to: "GET OFF ME...I'm working hard enough, I don't need to beat myself up". There's a lot of things in between though, lol.

I read my affirmations by sitting at the 'puter....it's on my 'homepage' blog.

I'm only less than a week into a 2nd Challenge...but I'm seeing results with this (I must've just been 'warming up' with the first challenge). All pretty exciting to me, lol.

I had a 'warped' view of bodybuilding..I guess I thought it was an all or nothing type of thing. Either you had to be at competitive level, or forget it. I've found out that's not even close to being what it really is. I have a 30 minute window to work out in ...at best....and it's just uncomprehendable that 20 to 30 minutes x6 days a week (no cardio) is giving me results that an HOUR of cardio wouldn't have. But, then again, I bought the "eat fat and lose fat" theory too, lol. That's not quite right either....and ending up an 109 pound body with over 32% bodyfat proves it to me.

You're just gonna do great things with this Deb!! I can hardly wait to see and hear of your transformation.

Pam

[SherryBerry]

How often do you read your affirmations/goals? Do you write them out daily? I know this is a powerful tool.
I have my goals taped up on my bathroom mirror and on my refrigerator. These are the goals I set my first challenge...
BFFM: GOALS
Long-term Goals
• I am working on losing fat and maintaining muscle (muscle gain would be a bonus) to reach my goal weight of 130 something lbs (depends on my BF%).
• I am working on getting my body fat to 15%.
• I am working on losing 61.2 lbs. (staring weight is 191.2lbs. and lbm is 113lbs.) while maintaining or gaining muscle.
• I am working on meeting my goal 15% BF by October 2, 2005.
• I am working on being able to wear 5/6 jeans.
• I am working on wearing medium/small shirts.
• I am working on revealing my true hourglass figure with muscle definition.
12 Month Goals
• I will be at goal weight.
• I will set new goals.
3 Month Goals
• I am working on losing 18 lbs. of fat while maintaining or gaining muscle.
• I am working on accomplishing this by March 6, 2005....GOAL Reached March 20, 2005!!!
Weekly Goals
• I will follow my nutrition plan.
• I will follow my exercise program.
• I will rehab my knee.
• I will do this by increasing my reps per set until I reach 12 reps and then increase the length of holding my muscles flexed. I will continue doing this until I’m back to normal strength training for my leg exercises.
• I will do my body composition skin fold test.
• I will do my body measurements.
• I will weigh-in.
• I will make modification to my nutrition or exercise plans if necessary.
Daily Goals
• I will get up at 8:00 A.M. and go to bed around 1:00 A.M.
• I will stay schedule for meals and remember to get my water in.
• I will stay on schedule for my workouts exercising flexibility when necessary.
Why do I want this?
• Better health, physical ability, appearance, self-image, Increased back and central (core) body strength to help with a previous back injury…Set goals to beat my personal best!!!!!

What percent of calories did you take off for fat loss?
30% off a moderately active calorie figure of 2,277 colories. 5 out of 7 days a week.

Calorie Cycling ~ (sorry, Tom, no-can-do zig zag ) Did/do you do 3 low days/1 at maintenence or did you use maintenence plus 5%? I'm thinking probably maintenence.
Usually 2 days a week (somtimes only once a week) I up my calories to maintenance or above an up my carbs to 200 grams total or more. On my low days my calories are around 1,500 and my carbs are around 100 grams total.

Tapering ~ Did/do you taper calories in all meals or keep 2-4 the same?
My calories seem to naturally taper my last 2 meals...this isn't something I focus on doing.

I know we all need to do what works best for ourselves, but what ratio did/do you use? Did you start at 50(C)/30(P)/20(F)? I suspect that may be a bit high in carbs for me, but maybe wait & see? I usually do protein at 50
I was high fat when I started BFFM...In the high 60% range. I'm comfortable now at or between these two ratios...40p/40f/20c or 40p/30f/30c.

Did/do you cycle the ratios sometimes? How often? I like that idea!
On my high days I reverse the fat and carbs from this ratio 40p/40f/20c to 40p/20f/40c.

Are you using flax or CLO? I am going to use CLO because I am not sure my body would be able to utilize it; many people can't. I know CLO will work.
I use the flax/sunflower oil mixture that Tom V recommends for EFA's...I have to make sure I get a tablespoon in a day because I don't eat fish or any seafood.

Hope this helps,
Sherri

[WendyOH]

Deb-Great questions!! These are the same things I was concerned with when starting 3 weeks ago, and I am still figuring them. Here's what I've done so far (and have lost 5 inches to date)....

What percent of calories did you take off for fat loss? My low days are 1600 calories (30% below maintenance) and high days are 2000 calories (5% below maintenance). I've never quite gotten that high yet on high days (usually average 1800-1900 calories).

Tapering ~ Did/do you taper calories in all meals or keep 2-4 the same? I do not taper calories and divide my total day's calories over my 5 meals. I do taper carbs, eating no starchy carbs in meals 4-5 at this point. The carbs I am eating include steel cut oats (for breakfast everyday), fruit (meal 2), sprouted wheat bread and carrots (meal 3), and sweet potato (only on my high days).

Ratios? I was coming off of doing Protein Power and eating 1350 calories and 60g total carbs per day. My first week I upped to my low day calories (1600) and increased carbs to 75g total. On my high days (which I do every Tuesday and Saturday), I ate 100g total carbs. My second week I increased my carbs to 90g on low days and 115g on high days. My third week I increased my carbs to 100g on low days and 130g on high days. I am currently beginning my 4th week and I am doing 110g on my low days and 145g on my high days. I plan to continue upping my carbs until I no longer see progress with my weekly measurements. I am currently at 40P/40F/20C (160g protein daily). I am also 5'7".

CLO? I take 1 t. of cod liver oil daily.

Hope this helps!

[DiamondDeb]

Thanks for the replies!

Pam, that sounds like a great EFA supplement!

What a great idea having your affirmations on your homepage!

Sherri, thanks for sharing your goals! I'll have to find one or two places to put my goals, too. The mirror will work, but not the fridge. I never look at anything I put on the door.

I liked the idea of taking 30% off but he warned that could lead to loss of LBM. You (Sherri & Wendy) haven't had a problem with that?

So none of you started with the baseline diet & then made adjustments from there? I got the impression that is what he was suggesting we do and add the carb tapering later?

Oh, does it matter what time of day we take BF% or is it only important to be consistent?

I've got more questions but my mind just went blank..

[inatic]

Deb I did bffm at the baseline. I did not cycle at the time but did carb taper which by days end brought my my ratios hit 40/40/20. I think i was eating about 1800 cals and tapered the last 1-2 meals. I am not sure what my percentage was. I am a lousy record keeper.
I never posted my affirmations anywhere, they are embedded in my brain

I would think you would want to do your body fat under the same conditions everytime, whether it be before eating, afternoon etc. Dtrainer says not to workout prior, so dont do them after working out.

[SherryBerry]

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

I liked the idea of taking 30% off but he warned that could lead to loss of LBM. You (Sherri & Wendy) haven't had a problem with that?

I work very late sometimes...as late as midnight. A post workout shake of 1/2 cup to 1 cup of 1% milk, 30 grams of protein powder (about 1/3 cup) and 1 teaspoon to 1/2 tablespoon of glutamine prevent this. I also carb/calorie cycle up once or twice (twice most of the time) a week...I think this is a key component to prevent muscle loss but so is post workout nutrition.

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

So none of you started with the baseline diet & then made adjustments from there? I got the impression that is what he was suggesting we do and add the carb tapering later?

I did try macros closer to the baseline ratios the first time I tried BFFM and it didn't work well for me and I went off plan. This was before my first official BFFM challlenge. So even though I've had great success doing BFFM slightly modified for my needs. My very first BFFM attempt was frustrating. Edited to add: That very first attempt I did get pretty upset that it wasn't working the way I expected and seemed easier for everyone else (I never fit into the "normal" macro ratios (It's taken me 2 challenges...6 months to work my way to the ratios I posted in my first post) suggestions or even the regular weight training and cardio concepts that are implemented don't work well for me). It was 2 to 3 months before I reread the BFFM book and started on my current path. I have to customize things that he suggests in a way that will work for me. I can't do the higher carb versions of cycling and macros that Tom V suggests.

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

Oh, does it matter what time of day we take BF% or is it only important to be consistent?

My Dh does mine in the morning before I eat and drink anything. You shouldn't exercise right before you have you BF% test done.

[sherdi]

How often do you read your affirmations/goals? Do you write them out daily? I know this is a powerful tool.

I must admit I am not very good at writing out goals. These are some of them.
1. To maintain my weight (whatever it may be) @ 15% bf.
2. To increase my muscle mass slowly.
3. To be mindful of what I consume.
4. To see this program as a lifestyle and not a diet. (This is a big one for me).
5. To re-work/look at my results on a weekly basis and re-figure my calories etc.
6. To sit down with my partner weekly and talk about our lifestyle, eating, exercise, and discuss our weekly challenges.

What percent of calories did you take off for fat loss?
I use the idea of taking 25% off my maint. calories (works out to be 1633) and every week (min) I have a day of 10% below (1960 - Except I have problems eating this much now, but I try to eat at least 1800). I haven't had a high day for about a week now, so I will have one on Wednesday (leg day). I don't really make myself have them, just when it feels right. I also have been finding that 1600 calories very satisfying, coming from lower calories, so just trying to adjust to those too. Each week, when I adjust my LBM, I re-adjust my calories too as the more muscle the more you can eat.

Calorie Cycling ~ (sorry, Tom, no-can-do zig zag ) Did/do you do 3 low days/1 at maintenence or did you use maintenence plus 5%? I'm thinking probably maintenence. See above.

Tapering ~ Did/do you taper calories in all meals or keep 2-4 the same?
I don't have any high carb foods the last two meals, also I do keep them slightly less calories for the end of the day. I don't really like eating right before bed, so I don't eat 2-3hours before bed. I focus my carbs around workouts.

I know we all need to do what works best for ourselves, but what ratio did/do you use? Did you start at 50(C)/30(P)/20(F)? I suspect that may be a bit high in carbs for me, but maybe wait & see? I usually do protein at 50
I currently do 30c/40p/30f as I have slight low blood sugar issues and cannot lower my fats much more than this. I tried 40/40/20 but fats were too low for me and I didn't feel right on this ratio. Most days it's more like 31/42/27.
I don't cycle my ratios any more but naturally have higher carbs and protein and fat on high calorie days which I try to have on hard workout days.

Are you using flax or CLO? I am going to use CLO because I am not sure my body would be able to utilize it; many people can't. I know CLO will work. I use fish oil tabs (morning and night) and make sure I get in good heathly fats from walnuts, almonds, macadamia oil, olive oil, etc. I also try to eat salmon twice a week.

[WendyOH]

Deb-I think the purpose of the carb/calorie up days are to help prevent muscle mass loss from going 30% below. No, I have not lost any muscle. I have gained 0.5 lb LBM since I've started tracking. I am slowly working towards a 40/40/20 or baseline diet that Venuto recommends. Because I was doing lowcarb prior to this, I didn't want to freak my body out by adding a huge amount of carbs. I am taking it slowly, adding about 10g per week, and testing out the carbs I do add to see how I do with them. I've been advised that if you start at the baseline diet, AVOID the scale for awhile until your body adjusts (that is, of course, if you were doing lowcarb prior to this).

[DiamondDeb]

Sherdi & Wendy, why are your high days below maintenance? Did I miss something? I recall him suggesting maintenance or 5% over it, but not below.

Ileen, I know the conditions should be the same, but I wondered it time of day matters? Is it better to do it in the AM, PM or doesn't it matter as long as you do it at the same time each week? I've always had it done mornings before.

I was wondering if anyone actually takes the time to write out their affirmations everyday, as he suggests? It doesn't sound like it.

On the 30% for fat burning, I know the high day is supposed to help but he said that 30% is extreme & may still cause loss of LBM. It's good to hear that hasn't happened for you. He mentioned having 2-3 high days in a row (is this what you do Sherri?) after 3 low days and mentioned this might allow you to gain LBM in addition to losing fat. That sounds like a good deal to me.

If you're doing the cycling/tapering, are the first 3 meals equal in calories or do you still make breakfast larger? This would be at a 40/40/20 ratio for the first 3 meals?

Do you experts think I should start at baseline and go from there or jump into the tapering/cycling from the start?

[WendyOH]

Deb-On p. 113, Venuto says "you could create a larger deficit of 25-30% for the low days and a 10% deficit for the high days. 30% is a large reduction, but as long as you raise your calories every 4th day, your metabolism won't be affected..."

Can you share with us how you are currently eating? That might help the experts (not me of course) help you decide a good place to start with your eating!

[SherryBerry]

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

I was wondering if anyone actually takes the time to write out their affirmations everyday, as he suggests? It doesn't sound like it.

No...I don't write them everyday. I glance over mine because they are in my face...lol...but they are also ingrained in my brain like Ileen mentioned.

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

On the 30% for fat burning, I know the high day is supposed to help but he said that 30% is extreme & may still cause loss of LBM. It's good to hear that hasn't happened for you. He mentioned having 2-3 high days in a row (is this what you do Sherri?) after 3 low days and mentioned this might allow you to gain LBM in addition to losing fat. That sounds like a good deal to me.

I did lose a small amout of muscle here there my 2nd BFFM challenge but came out with a .10 lbs. muscle gained in the end once I focused more on my post workout nutrition<<<<<< is a very important and cycling the calories up above maintenance calories is what turned that around for me. I was cycling my calories to or just below maintenance level and it wasn't working for preventing minor muscle loss. I go 5 (low day 1,500 calories and 100 grams of carbs) days and then my high days are 2 days in a row (about 2,300 calories ar higher and 200 grams of carbs or higher)...Saturdays and Sundays...to go against there grain some more they are on my rest days. . I'm a bit of a BFFM rebel...I've really had to customize this program for me.

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

If you're doing the cycling/tapering, are the first 3 meals equal in calories or do you still make breakfast larger? This would be at a 40/40/20 ratio for the first 3 meals?

My breakfast (M1) is larger by about 50 calories more than than M2 and M3. M4 and M5 are about 25 to 50 calories less than meals 2 and 3.

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

Do you experts think I should start at baseline and go from there or jump into the tapering/cycling from the start?

I know you've done other programs that have worked well for you. I would take a look at any information you logged when doing those and see what macro ratios worked best for fat loss . I would say that the baseline ratios are definately high carb if you haven't lost fat well on high carb/low fat I would say start more at Tom V's recommended moderate carb ratio of 40p/40c/20f. Or maybe give these ratios a try instead 40c/30p/30f or 40p/30c/30f. It depends on what you're comfortable doing...what has worked in the past for you.

[DiamondDeb]

Originally Posted by WendyOH

Deb-On p. 113, Venuto says "you could create a larger deficit of 25-30% for the low days and a 10% deficit for the high days. 30% is a large reduction, but as long as you raise your calories every 4th day, your metabolism won't be affected..."

Can you share with us how you are currently eating? That might help the experts (not me of course) help you decide a good place to start with your eating!

Oh, yeah! I'm trying to remember everything I just read & it's not possible. That's also one place he suggests adding an extra high day or two if you do lose LBM. I like the idea of 2 high days for added LBM.

Right now I am not on a specific plan other than 100% clean food, no sugar no junk. Good carbs, steel cut oats & a bit of sprouted grain bread, a little fruit and not enough veggies. I'm not tracking or anything right now. That starts tomorrow.

I tried a high carb plan a couple years ago & it didn't work for me even though I stuck with it 100% for months. And that was with calories & ratios changing every week. A LOT of work. It was very disappointing not to get results.

[DiamondDeb]

Originally Posted by SherryBerry

No...I don't write them everyday. I glance over mine because they are in my face...lol...but they are also ingrained in my brain like Ileen mentioned.


I did lose a small amout of muscle here there my 2nd BFFM challenge but came out with a .10 lbs. muscle gained in the end once I focused more on my post workout nutrition<<<<<< is a very important and cycling the calories up above maintenance calories is what turned that around for me. I was cycling my calories to or just below maintenance level and it wasn't working for preventing minor muscle loss. I go 5 (low day 1,500 calories and 100 grams of carbs) days and then my high days are 2 days in a row (about 2,300 calories ar higher and 200 grams of carbs or higher)...Saturdays and Sundays...to go against there grain some more they are on my rest days. . I'm a bit of a BFFM rebel...I've really had to customize this program for me.


My breakfast (M1) is larger by about 50 calories more than than M2 and M3. M4 and M5 are about 25 to 50 calories less than meals 2 and 3.


I know you've done other programs that have worked well for you. I would take a look at any information you logged when doing those and see what macro ratios worked best for fat loss . I would say that the baseline ratios are definately high carb if you haven't lost fat well on high carb/low fat I would say start more at Tom V's recommended moderate carb ratio of 40p/40c/20f. Or maybe give these ratios a try instead 40c/30p/30f or 40p/30c/30f. It depends on what you're comfortable doing...what has worked in the past for you.

Thanks!

My two best programs...Protein Power & BRx Cycle 3. That's my proof that I need to stick with less starchy carbs. Veggies I can handle a lot of, obviously, from eating BRx-style. But one is high fat (60+%) & the other low (15-20%).

Maybe start the tapering/cycling with 40/40/20 @ -30%? Do 2 high days @ maintenance and have a good postworkout meal?

[SherryBerry]

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

Thanks!

My two best programs...Protein Power & BRx Cycle 3. That's my proof that I need to stick with less starchy carbs. Veggies I can handle a lot of, obviously, from eating BRx-style. But one is high fat (60+%) & the other low (15-20%).

Maybe start the tapering/cycling with 40/40/20?

40p/40c/20f would be a good place to start if you want to go the low fat route. If you want to start at a high to moderate fat ratio you could try 40p/40f/20c or 40p/30c/30f and make adjustments from there if necessary . I have a problem with some strachy carbs (yams, sweet potatoes and a few others) too but I can eat oats...isn't that kind of strange..lol . Tapering I did right from the beginning of my first (official) challenge and cycling I impletmented at about 4 weeks into my first challenge. I was afraid of carb cycling at first because I thought I would gain fat .

[DiamondDeb]

Thanks again, Sherri! I haven't really noticed any problems with specific carbs other than processed ones. I know less starchy ones is better for me.

I'm going to go with 40/40/20, then, for the first 3 days. That'll be for the first 3 meals. Breakfast will be the largest, and I'll decrease a little with each meal, leaving the starchy carbs out of meals 4 & 5. Then I'll do 2 high days & switch ratios to 50/30/20? Would that work? It's only 10% diffierence.

I'm going to go with -30% for fat loss -5% for the high days...I think.

Does that sound OK?

[SherryBerry]

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

Thanks again, Sherri! I haven't really noticed any problems with specific carbs other than processed ones. I know less starchy ones is better for me.

I'm going to go with 40/40/20, then, for the first 3 days. That'll be for the first 3 meals. Breakfast will be the largest, and I'll decrease a little with each meal, leaving the starchy carbs out of meals 4 & 5. Then I'll do 2 high days & switch ratios to 50/30/20? Would that work? It's only 10% diffierence.

I'm going to go with -30% for fat loss -5% for the high days...I think.

Does that sound OK?

This looks like a good plan to me. The 50c/30p/20c ratio will work on the high days if your body can tolerate it. I can get my body to tolerate 40p/40c/20f for two cycle up days but not three...I don't know why ...that's why I think my maintenance ratio will be 40p/30c/30/f. I have had a starchy carb my last meal and it hasn't slowed down my fat loss...just an FYI . If you lose mucle adjust the 5% below maitenance calories on high days before anything else...to maintenance or above. Everything looks like it's falling into place with the awesome planning you've done. I'm sending some serious fat loss success vibes your way!!!!

[DiamondDeb]

Thanks, I am thinking the second high day may help prevent loss of LBM, too.

I can use all the fat loss success vibes I can get. I am determined to ROCK BFFM! The fat might as well leave now; it doesn't stand a chance...

I AM A FAT BURNING MACHINE!!!

Oh, I am sooo glad this feeling is back!

[DiamondDeb]

I'm gonna have to start throwing away egg yolks again, aren't I?

lol...

[SherryBerry]

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

Thanks, I am thinking the second high day may help prevent loss of LBM, too.

I can use all the fat loss success vibes I can get. I am determined to ROCK BFFM! The fat might as well leave now; it doesn't stand a chance...

I AM A FAT BURNING MACHINE!!!

Oh, I am sooo glad this feeling is back!

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

I'm gonna have to start throwing away egg yolks again, aren't I?

lol...

Yep...this was hard for me too. I was enjoying getting to eat whole eggs when doing high fat. Even now that I'm in the 30 to 40% fat range I have to throw away the yolks because I need to leave room for my raw sunflower seeds...lol.

[DiamondDeb]

Originally Posted by SherryBerry

Yep...this was hard for me too. I was enjoying getting to eat whole eggs when doing high fat. Even now that I'