Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle [BFFM] by Tom Venuto

[driven]

Originally Posted by Lucky4

Wow, after 8 long months, I'm back. I blew everything--and am starting again. But, not succeeding on low carb, I'm opting for BFFM which I had done for a while back in 2004. Wish me luck. My main problem is that I travel extensively--and I'm not in a place where I can easily find protein (without it costing a fortune) or things like yams, etc. I'll have to do some extra tweaking. The other problem is that I do not have my receipt from 2004 and have no clue if there were any updates. I'm wondering about virgin CO--if he has allowed it or not--even though for now it won't do me any good because I can't find it.
Well, here it goes--for some reason, after being at my absolute highest weight in my life and being 47, I'm relatively excited about this. It's my only hope left
Lucky4

Hi...
I'm brand new to this board, but having similar issues. I tried BFFM a few years back, and it worked great for me. I don't recall why I stopped doing it, but I am currently on Atkins, and it is just not working as well for me. I am losing weight PAINFULLY slow on it... I am considering going back to BFFM and sticking to the lower carb end of the macros... 30%.

[driven]

Hi All!

I am a former BFFM'er who went to Atkins and is now considering coming back to BFFM. I am losing just PAINFULLY slow on the Atkins.

I am so glad to have found this forum...

On BFFM I was losing a consistent 2 lb per week... on Atkins, I am getting very slow loss... .5 pounds or less per week. Some weeks are showing gains or no losses at all. This is getting super discouraging to me... so I am figuring, "Why not go back to something that worked in the past"? To tell the truth, I don't honestly remember why I stopped doing BFFM...

I do respond VERY badly to carbs... particularly refined carbs. So, I do agree with a lower carb lifestyle. The research that points to it as being a healthier choice is all there... so, I will likely opt for the lowest amount of carbs that Tom recommends.

I enjoy the Atkins way of eating... love all of that meat and cheese... I just wish that it worked as well for me as it does for some... has anyone else ran into this??

Barb

[Whitedov1208]

Hi everyone, may I jump in?

Just ordered the e-book deluxe (with Fat Burner files) and started reading it last night. Three chapters in and easy reading. Things that I thought on a intuitive level, he's saying. Tom makes it real. I've read the posts in this thread and will continue and write when I have something to say or questions. I will read all 600 + pages and get a good understanding before I start.

Iatic: I'm sure you've heard this before...but you are really an inspiration to not only this thread but to everything about exercise at this time of our life. I am 49 yrs old and thought that I was past the point that I could ever sculpt my body. You proved it wrong! You also have proved that you don't have to be a man to look buff. Thank you.

[inatic]

Goodness Thank u Linda :hug:

[Whitedov1208]

Hi everyone!

May I throw a couple of question out here?

Doing the calculations of LBM based on my Body Fat. My scale and the gym's hand held caliber measured me as: 34% body fat. (very high) especially given the fact that I weight 141 lbs and am 5'7".

That gives me a LBM of 94 lbs!
If I add 20% (desired fat % which is reasonable, I think) it gives me a
"Goal Weight" of 116 lbs.

I think that is way too low for an Ideal Body weight. I weighed 118 lbs in High School. At my age now, 118 lbs would not look good on me.

So, I'm stuck.

My questions:

Is it possible for a woman of 49 yrs old, at 5'7" with a weight now of 141 to have a Fat % of 34%?

Do you guys use a caliber that you feel is accurate and what would that be?

Thanks in advance.

[Bring it on]

The scale and the hand held impedance testers are not very accurate. If you really want an accurate measurement, you need to go to someone ie. a personal trainer in the gym who knows how to use the calipers.

Secondly, If you are truly using BFFM, and working out your body composition will change as you add a little muscle and lose body fat.

If you were to weigh 125 and have 20% body fat, your lean body mass would be 100 lbs. So, if you were to add 6 pounds of muscle and lose 22 pounds of fat. you would be 20% body fat. I think that your math is off. I also think that the scale and the handheld tester is off.

The main goal of BFFM from what I take away is keeping your muscle by feeding it the protein it needs and working out while losing body fat. A lot of people lose tons of weight and become thin but very flabby, high body fat percentage. If you diet without exercise and protein etc. Your body will burn your muscle for fuel and your body fat % will stay the same even though the scale is lower..


I should have used this calculation 120lbs x .80 =96, 125lbs x .80=100 (96 and 100 lbs lean body mass respectively. )

So if you were to add 2 pounds of muscle and lose 23 lbs of fat, you would weigh 120 and be at 20% body fat.

Also, don't get hung up on numbers etc. The main goal is to keep the muscle you have, exercise, eat healthy, you will lose body fat and change your body compositon.

Hope this is helpful.

[inatic]

i dont even bother testing my bf but once in a blue moon via DEXA scan , which is the most accurate. You'll know when you are happy based on the mirror and your clothes.

EVen a trainer at a gym, if not well skilled, will not be accurate either. I"d use the same one though,under the same condition ea time though to track progess more than getting fixed on a number.

During times of dieting, outside the honeymoon newbie window, your going to be holding onto the existing muscle and not so much building new UNLESS you make a deliberate effort to EAT and train with more volume.

[Whitedov1208]

Thanks Inatic and Ricardo. I'll check out the Dexa scan. Tom recommends using an inexpense fat caliber and named a few others. I won't invest alot of money - but it has been an eye-opener and a motivator to get off my arse.

Funny thing is yesterday my scale says:
Fat % - 30%, Hydration % - 50%

Today, it's back to the normal: Fat% - 34%, Hydration % - 47%.

What causes it to flucuate? The trainer at the gym saw that on Day 1 will was 34/47 and Day 3, I was 30/50. I asked him and he said he didn't know and looked embarrassed.

Ok, I'm on Chapter 16. It's time to decide what ratios to go by. Since I have been doing low carb for 4 months now, I thought I'd better start off with a lower carb ratio: 40/40/20. The problem is that every website I go on to find my Caloric Requirement has a different number. I've seen for me anywhere from 1400 to 1800. Since it seems like Tom doesn't tell you, do you guys know of a good website that is accurate?

I've started the dietary change yesterday but fell short on the ratio. It came out to: Carb 32/Prot 29/Fat 39 - Calories: 1108 (I know this is too low and should have added more veggies)

I can see I have a lot of planning to do. Well, it's 7:11 am and I'm off to the gym for 1/2 hr of fast walking.

Thanks in advance for your help. I'm a newbie at exercising and appreciate any support.

[inatic]

Please ignore the water/hydration/fat ratios. dont pay mind to what the hydration and fat ratios are on your scale, that is very inaccurate and WILL flucuate doing (and thru the day) salt, water, hormones , etc all affect it.

What matters is the downward trend. MY coach doesnt use calipers for accuracy. MOST trainers arent qualified to do it properly. Re Tom's method, those calipher/clippers rent accurate either and not enough sites are really used to get an accurate picture I'd use nothing less than 7-9 sites and that pincher isnt used for that kind of measuring.We use measurements with a tape measure on about 7 different areas along with a scale WT. to track progess. As long as it's going DOWN. your good. Never mind that BF thing.

Ratios are not necessarily the best way to get your nutrients in. This article by my coach explains that.Use it in conjunction WITH BFFM if you wish. One does NOT have ot stay LC unless you truely feel your body does best LC.. most people do best without the processed carbs but do fine with 'good' ones or is it "A" ones as Tom uses.

Here's that article.Best Macronutrient Breakdown For Fat Loss

[Whitedov1208]

Originally Posted by inatic

Please ignore the water/hydration/fat ratios. dont pay mind to what the hydration and fat ratios are on your scale, that is very inaccurate and WILL flucuate doing (and thru the day) salt, water, hormones , etc all affect it.

What matters is the downward trend. MY coach doesnt use calipers for accuracy. MOST trainers arent qualified to do it properly. Re Tom's method, those calipher/clippers rent accurate either and not enough sites are really used to get an accurate picture I'd use nothing less than 7-9 sites and that pincher isnt used for that kind of measuring.We use measurements with a tape measure on about 7 different areas along with a scale WT. to track progess. As long as it's going DOWN. your good. Never mind that BF thing.

Ratios are not necessarily the best way to get your nutrients in. This article by my coach explains that.Use it in conjunction WITH BFFM if you wish. One does NOT have ot stay LC unless you truely feel your body does best LC.. most people do best without the processed carbs but do fine with 'good' ones or is it "A" ones as Tom uses.

Here's that article.Best Macronutrient Breakdown For Fat Loss

Thank Inatic. I will forget about BF. I read your trainer's link and will focus on eating the right foods. I'm just not sure how much carbs, proteins and fats I should shoot for at this beginning stage. I want a more balanced and healthy diet and to be able to still lose the fat. Low carb kicked started my weight loss and my weight is relatively okay. But I know my energy has been less than average doing cardio and weight machines probably from lack of carb. I was eating 20-30 gram of carbs per day for 4 months.

The visable eye-sore is my thighs. They are long in length but very fatty and flabby up top - 22". I lost most of my weight in my upper half (which was not heavy to begin with and arms are thin and lean -at least that hasn't changed in 49 yrs!). I think I'm a endo mesomorph built (hourglass type). My goal is to lose the fat first - then I'll build the muscles. My typical workout is 3x a week w/eclipical warm up, weight machines and then 30 min of walking fast on tread machine. I may have to amp it up to more times a week.

In your trainer's link I saw under the Metabolism section that 12x body weight is a good start for calorie deficit. That would be 1692 calories I should shoot for to lose fat. I can see that I haven't been eating enough calories.

[inatic]

if you have been dieting for a long while without a break, you might consider maintenance for a few weeks. Under eating and over training is will shut you down fast.

Careful with the cardio. In my opinion Venuto recommends way to much way to fast. My coach is not a huge cardio person.. and uses it in adjunct to diet, when needed.. Ramped up when needed. A few times a week is a good start. A day or two of some Short intervals.. Then rest. See what happens.

As to how many carbs, get your protein first and formost at a gr/body wt. Add some fats and some carbs to balance out the cals. Tweak as needed depending on how your feel.

Try that for a few weeks and see how it goes.

[Whitedov1208]

Originally Posted by inatic

if you have been dieting for a long while without a break, you might consider maintenance for a few weeks. Under eating and over training is will shut you down fast.

Careful with the cardio. In my opinion Venuto recommends way to much way to fast. My coach is not a huge cardio person.. and uses it in adjunct to diet, when needed.. Ramped up when needed. A few times a week is a good start. A day or two of some Short intervals.. Then rest. See what happens.

As to how many carbs, get your protein first and formost at a gr/body wt. Add some fats and some carbs to balance out the cals. Tweak as needed depending on how your feel.

Try that for a few weeks and see how it goes.

Okay - gonna take your advice. Not going to worry about ratios, BF and just eat healthy and keep my saturated fats low and exercise 3x a week - more emphasis on weights. I agree, with yo-yo dieting over the past 2 years, I need to re-set my metabolism back to before I dieted. Before I decided to diet, I didn't exercise. I was one of those that could eat what I wanted and not gain weight and be slender. When I hit my 40's - it caught up with me. Now that I'm going to the gym, I feel I have some leverage to eat more healthy and not go extreme. I joined the gym on Memorial Day.

Love your signature....You gotta wanna!

[Whitedov1208]

Hi,
Been tracking my calories...been too low at 1292. Having a time with trying to up my calories without adding fats. I know if I add the carb, I've got to cut out the fat. Fats and carb = window for fat gain per Tom V.

The good news is that I've upped my carbs and no weight change. I have TOM and that it itself is a miracle. Usually 1 gain 3-5 lbs during TOM.

Sticking to 3x a week - cardio and weight machines. I think without the exercise, I couldn't be at the same weight w/the carbs increasing since I've haven't been able to lower my fats to less than 46%. Trying to get to 20%.
Changed to Hellman's Light, use olive oil, Smart Balance Lite, use spray oils. All meats have some fat but if we are to keep our protein up, then fats go along even thought I am now eating lean meat.

Any suggestions to cutting the fat to 20% without giving up eating protein?

[inatic]

Your cals are too low! try raising them up some and keeping your fat.

you dont have to cut your fat to 20%., you can keep it higher, just keep the protein in check and adjust from there.

when you have protein/carbs, save the fat/protein for later (tapering)

dont make yourself nuts with it. keep it simple

editting to add:
on days you wt train, you can keep the fat lower and keep your carbs and then on off days, have fun and add the higher fats like eggs/yoke, steak , pb etc.

[Whitedov1208]

Originally Posted by inatic

Your cals are too low! try raising them up some and keeping your fat.

you dont have to cut your fat to 20%., you can keep it higher, just keep the protein in check and adjust from there.

when you have protein/carbs, save the fat/protein for later (tapering)

dont make yourself nuts with it. keep it simple

editting to add:
on days you wt train, you can keep the fat lower and keep your carbs and then on off days, have fun and add the higher fats like eggs/yoke, steak , pb etc.

Sounds like good advice, Iantic. It isn't according to Tom's method of the ratios but like I said, it gets complicated to eat that way. I don't know how people that do the Zone diet do it. I think that Jillian Michael's newest book "The Metabolism Boost" or something like that has a ratio method too.

I have noticed since I'm working out at the gym - now only 1 month this week, that my stubborn fat thighs are tightening up and muscles are building and that's from going to the gym 3x a week.

Not killing myself. Just 10 mins of warm up on ecliptical and/or treadmill, weight machines upper and lower to "failure" at about 100-110 lbs on legs and sometimes no weight on the upper body (I have long thin arms) and on the treadmill to finish for 20-30 mins on 4.0 speed (with a 2-3 min jog in between).

So far, the carbing up for this past week didn't hurt me. Weight is same but the body is tighter and that's fine with me. I don't want to be a 118 lb weakling.

It does make sense to me to carb up on workout days and carb down on non-work out days. I do tend to taper - on carb up days, I followed Tom's advice to eat the carbs early - by supper - cut back and eat protein and veggies.

I've got to find some higher calories somewhere in between without adding too much fat. It's the fat foods that have more calories. I can only eat so much veggies. When I was on Atkins, I ate alot of meat/veggies and still my calories were about 1400. Yeah, I want to keep it simple, believe it or not!

Would someone post a menu with quantities? It might help to see a guildline.

[inatic]

what is wrong with adding cals to fat when you dont want more carbs? you need the fats as well. Are you sure you are getting enough protein? If so, up the fats. THey will keep you full.

you should not lift to failure. And going forward, try and use the free wts vs machines

[Whitedov1208]

Originally Posted by inatic

what is wrong with adding cals to fat when you dont want more carbs? you need the fats as well. Are you sure you are getting enough protein? If so, up the fats. THey will keep you full.

you should not lift to failure. And going forward, try and use the free wts vs machines

Tom says Fat and Carbs - eaten together - open the gates of fat gain. So adding fat on lower carb days and less fat on higher carb days seem to make sense (to me anyway). His advice is 20% fat of your caloric intake which seems too low.

He also says to lift to failure is a good thing but perhaps not for a newbie exerciser like myself.

There is a section of my gym that has free weights - I only see body builders there with "spot partners". I go to the gym alone. My arms are not developed for lifting barbells, believe me, but I hear you. I have 3 lb weights at home that I could work with in the meantime.

I have a lot to learn. Thanks for taking the time to answer me.

[inatic]

lifting to failure, especially on a caloric deficit is too much of a hit of the Central nervous system for ANYONE, INCLUDING newbies. Im an experienced lifter and my coach doesnt allow us to go to failure very often..

Fat and carbs eaten together do not cause fat gain you gain fat in a caloric abundance. That said, i'd save the fat for meals you dont have carbs in to fill it calorically with something besides veggies.

Most of the info in BFFM is great.. They are also guidelines, not a bible. So if you feel better with more fat, most people do, then add it in leu of too many carbs. Comfort during dieting is best.. not ratios...

HOWEVER, if you feel better with more carbs, and it doesnt affect you(makes some people ravenous) go for it. Its an individual thing and that is what im getting at. I personally prefer more carbs and eat higher carb than many.. but i have many friends, if they eat the high(er) level, get way to hungry, especially on lower cals.

[Cheese Breath]

Tom Venuto has a hard copy book out now called Body Fat Solution. It is very similar to BFFM in the fact that it is totally long winded. I remember reading BFFM a few years ago, it took days. I can't even get myself to read the rest of his new book, boring!!!! I got though most of it but couldn't take it anymore.

I can sum up both books real quick,

Count calories.

Start out at a certain calorie level , 2500 calories for an example. Now if you don't lose your goal weight for the week (1-2 pounds) you need to make a change. Drop your calories or do more cardio until you find the right amount.

Eat 5-6 meals a day.

Eat protein and complex carbs and healthy fat at each meal.

He doesn't even mention zig zag or macro calculations in the new book.

Anyways I know allot of people like BFFM but all it is is calorie counting.

BFFM is not really a program like say Body for Life is. BFFM just gives you examples of how you could do things. The exercise section just gives example routines. In Body for Life they tell you exactly what to do.

BFFM is a guide not a program.

Anyways............

[inatic]

BFFM is a nutrition guide, not a training guide.

[Whitedov1208]

Cheesebreath, I tend to agree.

I read the entire main book - still have all the "bonus books" to read.

If it's just calorie counting - then I don't know more now than what I did.

From what I've read so far, I am a little disappointed that I'm still not sure what calories I should aim for. For a female, 5'7" - 141 lbs - 2500 calories as an example would be way too high. Everything is nebulous and it's really about you tweaking it for yourself. That's where a human trainer that looks at you and can assess you comes in handy. I guess I wanted to save costs of a personal trainer and thought this woud fit the bill.

BTW: I think the USDA standard says 2000 as in "based on a 2000 calorie diet" on the Nutritional Labels. Different websites I've check say anything from 1500 to 1800 caloires. I don't feel I have any more direction than before. So, basically, the ebook has served it's purpose as a "motivational" tool for me. But I think it may be too swayed to "body builders" rather than a non body builder like me that is new to the exercising world that just wants to lose body fat. Maybe I'll just read it again.

Iantic was kind enoughl to give me alot of pointers. Like the ratios of food - it's all over the place with 20% being the highest amount of fat in any ratio. Try as I might, I could never get that low - perhaps if I didn't use any oils in my cooking like what "6 Week Body Makeover" was about. Also, there was no dairy in that 6 week bodymaker plan either but in Tom's it's ok. Unless you eat no-fat dairy - your fats will climb up the latter, not to mention any nuts you eat.

Right now, I'm just taking Ianic's advise and just eat healthy to reset my metabolism from my yo-yo dieting and exercising 3x a week and see how it goes.

I'll check out "Body for Life".

Thanks.

[gethotabs]

Yep, I have been into some of his blog and they were great source for diet information. Even some of the topics there baffled me into realizing I was doing the wrong "Dieting" food and the dude doesn't plug for some lame protein shakes or stuff...

----
Learn the complete no-nonsense guide into having that six pack abs you've been always dreaming. No BS- only methods that yields results.

[Whitedov1208]

Well, the good news is that after 2 weeks of BFFM, I have not lost weight by scale but I lost 4% of my body fat (from 34% to 30%). Water percentage went from 47% to 50%. No change in inches but from working out at the gym 3x a week with cardio and weights, my muscles are become more defined.

I'm eating whole, organic foods as well (as much as I can find them at my stores here in my area) and de-toxing some of these fake foods like shakes and protein bars. I really didn't abuse them anyway. I went from high fat to lower fat and eating lean meats instead of the fatty ones. I am eating more veggies and eating mostly "whole grains" and trying to stay away from as much sugar as I can - unless it's fruit sugar or those annoying sugar grains in condiments.

For me, it's about taking baby steps and not being impatient to lose a ton of weight and fat in a short period of time. Best of all, I have more energy than ever!

How's everyone else doing?