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Old 12-18-2006, 08:40 AM   #151
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Thanks, Jackieba, that was quite clever of you. Can't wait to try it!!!
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:51 PM   #152
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Magnamater,
I used a 8x11 glass baking dish (I line it with quick release foil for easy cleanup). I divided the dough into 6 balls and rolled out 4" wide x 6" long then rolled them up jelly roll style and pinched the seams to seal. I experimented with rolling shorter than 6" long but they still spread out to the same length (but rolling to 6" gave a prettier bun). They make hot dog bun pans but I don't have one.
you did a great job making those hotdog buns. they look like the real deal!
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Old 12-18-2006, 04:36 PM   #153
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Those hot dog rolls look great Jackie! I'm thinking of them for mini-sub rolls. Tuna salad, chicken salad, Italian sandwiches --- yum!
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:48 PM   #154
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Oh, wow! Hot dogs on buns! Haven't had that in years. It'll be a major treat!
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:00 PM   #155
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Magnamater,
I used a 8x11 glass baking dish (I line it with quick release foil for easy cleanup). I divided the dough into 6 balls and rolled out 4" wide x 6" long then rolled them up jelly roll style and pinched the seams to seal. I experimented with rolling shorter than 6" long but they still spread out to the same length (but rolling to 6" gave a prettier bun). They make hot dog bun pans but I don't have one.
Did you let the dough "rest" a bit before rolling it out? I found it pretty darn resistant to rolling.

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Old 12-19-2006, 04:07 PM   #156
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I just finished making 2 loaves of the carbalose bread.

Tweaks - 2 loaf recipe
1 tsp extra sugar
1 tsp. vanilla extract

I baked the loaves in 5x9 inch loaf pans (new larger pans). The dough rose high and gave me large and rounded loaves.
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Old 12-19-2006, 04:46 PM   #157
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OK, I've had some fun with the Oat and the Carbquik versions, most notable results being a batter (though I kept adding more "flour" to it in hopes it would ball up, but not really) rather than a dough, and incredibly salty (that'll be the doubled Carbquik version, I should know better than to double when testing in my own kitchen ! ).

In the end, I liked the Carbalose version as being most whitebread ... though I will point out, for the benefit of those who haven't baked high protein stuff much, before, that this kind of bread needs to be well-wrapped and stored as soon as it is fully cooled, it will stale quickly because of the low moisture content and the high protein. Goes squeaky fast if you don't wrap it tight!

Also, with the whole batter problem, I just turned the method around back to the traditional style (stir together dry, then with dough hook or blade, stir in the wet until a dough ball forms. I left out the cream, then added it by the Tablespoon until the dough looked right to me, not too "tight" and dry/rubbery, a little looser on the hook, kind of flopping slightly around the bottom of the hook rather than trying to climb the hook out of the mixer. This worked for me, got a well (machine) kneaded dough ball. This, too, was one of those doubling exercises (yeah, I'm stubborn! ), and once kneaded, I baked it off in a long narrow loaf pan (from Ikea)

and 9 mini-loaf pans, kind of like this one

All these baked at 350F for 30-35M.

I had a few "tag ends" from divvying up half the dough into the loaf pans, so I rolled them up with a spice/PDX/erythritol mixture, but that's another experiment in the making...I was just flinging ingredients around and it needs a bit more tweaking (needs more stickiness!) though it was edible. I ended up turning the mini loaves into mini grilled cheese sandwiches, and taking them to a Christmas do! VERY yummy, when warm.

So here's MY version of the ingredient list, which I am keeping and re-using (note the changes in the liquid ingredients and some small changes in "floury" stuff proportions):

Quote:
* Exported from MasterCook *

White Bread, Carbalose

Recipe By :Jude IslandGirl
Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Breads & Crackers Veggie Ovo-Lacto

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
10 tablespoons warm water
2 tablespoons half and half cream -- up to 1/4 c
1 whole large egg
1 tablespoon grapeseed oil
1/2 cup wheat protein Isolate 8000
1 cup Carbalose
1 cup wheat protein isolate 5000
1/4 cup wheat starch, Resistant Wheat 70
2 teaspoons baking powder
1 teaspoon sugar
4 teaspoons Yeast, Rapid Rise*


Source: "KevinPA on www.lowcarbfriends.com, with tweaks"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 55 Calories; 2g Fat (30.6% calories from fat); 7g Protein; 4g Carbohydrate; 2g Dietary Fiber; 14mg Cholesterol; 114mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 1 Lean Meat; 0 Non-Fat Milk; 1/2 Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates.

NOTES :
* I increased the yeast because my jar of yeast seemed weak, slow to bloom when I proofed it.
** 2.3 net carbs, 6g protein per 1/16th slice. The count of 16 came from the regular size loaf pan in previous tries...I actually got a whole bunch more slices out of this narrow loaf but they are smaller, so I stick with the 16 count for slices.
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Last edited by theislandgirl; 12-19-2006 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 12-20-2006, 07:34 AM   #158
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Jude,
No I didn't let it rest. I dumped it out of my bread machine onto a well sprayed silicone mat, divided into 6 balls, then flattened it a little with my hand and then rolled it out. I saw a 7x11 dish at Wmt which would be a better length for hot dogs but mine were long dogs so it worked out. We do plan to use them for a cheesesteak sub.

For loaves, I'm not thrilled with my 9x5 pan because it rises so much above the top (then spreads a bit), it was looking like a mushroom and too tall for my toaster. I have 2 others but the largest is just 9 1/4 x 5 and it's shorter in height. In search of the right size pan (9 1/2 x 5 1/2 would be perfect) and not finding it, I bought a giant disposable one (about 12 x 5 1/2) and wedged a piece of tin where I wanted it to stop--surprisingly it turned out a beautiful loaf. Definitely not ideal but workable till I find a better solution.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:41 AM   #159
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Jackieba, how long did you cook the hotdog buns? and did your buns have a hard crust, they look soft like the real thing.


I made the bread yesterday the carbolose version, and it has the exact texture of real wonder bread, smaller holes then kevin's picture. Anyways, it still has that off taste imo, that you get with using these fake flours. I have a couple of ?, why do we need the baking powder, mine rose way over the top of the pan. Is 40 minutes too long? mine looked brown on top at 15 minutes or is that how it should look. The crust was very firm, had to use electric knife to cut it. Like I said it made a very pretty loaf and the texure was right on, so maybe I should try adding some vanilla to mask that off taste?????

Debbie.

Last edited by Tater Head; 12-21-2006 at 07:43 AM..
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:19 AM   #160
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Debbie, I baked the buns at 350 degrees for about 15-20 minutes (I don't remember the exact time; I set my timer to check at 15 minutes)--till lightly browned on top. They were soft (the top feels firm right out of the oven but softens with cooling). I froze the leftovers and they reheated well wrapped in a paper towel and heated in the microwave--came out real soft even after being frozen.

Ovens don't all cook at the same rate so you have to adjust your time accordingly but 40 mins worked well for me. It does start to brown early but that doesn't mean it's done. The loaf will be well browned. You can test for doneness by tapping the top with your finger--a hollow sound means it's done. If you want it less browned, you can cover the top with foil for the last 15 minutes. It will soften as it cools. I turn it out onto a rack and let it cool completely before cutting. I cut mine with a bread knife (to cut fresh bread, you need a knife with a serrated edge).

I don't notice any off taste here but you might want to increase the resistant wheat starch (and decrease the Carbalose a bit) or try the vanilla--since everyone's taste is different, what works for one may not work for someone else. May take a little trial and error.
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Old 12-21-2006, 02:16 PM   #161
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Kevin,
Thank you so much for your recipe. Without it I never would have finalized my recipe. Here it is and it makes a yummy, soft bread.

3/4 water
1 egg
1/3 C oat fiber
1/3 C flaxmeal
1/3 C almond meal
1/4 C WPI 8000
3/4 C WPI 5000
2 t baking pdr
1 pkt stevia
1 t salt
1 T oil
2 t yeast

I put it in the bread machine in order and let it knead. When it is done kneading, I take it out, shape it and get it into a bread pan. I let it rise an hour, then bake. It comes to a total of 13.1 grams of carbs per loaf and that makes it less than 1 gm per slice. It makes great toast.

Thanks again, Kevin, for all the hard work you do for us. You are our inspiration!!

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Old 12-21-2006, 03:45 PM   #162
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Debbie, I baked the buns at 350 degrees for about 15-20 minutes (I don't remember the exact time;

Thank you jackieba, did you use the food processor method/ I did.

I think i will use all half and half next time, and no water, use butter instead of olive oil and add 1 tsp vanilla, 1/2 cup each of 800&500 flour. The bread was very soft inside just like wonder bread but boy was the crust firm. My dough was very elastic, so I had to really push it into the corners.
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:53 PM   #163
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Thank you jackieba, did you use the food processor method/ I did.

I think i will use all half and half next time, and no water, use butter instead of olive oil and add 1 tsp vanilla, 1/2 cup each of 800&500 flour. The bread was very soft inside just like wonder bread but boy was the crust firm. My dough was very elastic, so I had to really push it into the corners.
can you post your results when your finished and tell us which one you liked best. by the way, the bread tasted great when i made a rueben today. kinda masked that taste you are talking about. i was so greatful to have bread again, i haven't minded the taste. i think i will try the vanill tho!
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:53 PM   #164
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Thank you jackieba, did you use the food processor method/ I did.

I think i will use all half and half next time, and no water, use butter instead of olive oil and add 1 tsp vanilla, 1/2 cup each of 800&500 flour. The bread was very soft inside just like wonder bread but boy was the crust firm. My dough was very elastic, so I had to really push it into the corners.
can you post your results when your finished and tell us which one you liked best. by the way, the bread tasted great when i made a rueben today. kinda masked that taste you are talking about. i was so greatful to have bread again, i haven't minded the taste. i think i will try the vanill tho!
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:54 PM   #165
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I think i will use all half and half next time, and no water, use butter instead of olive oil and add 1 tsp vanilla, 1/2 cup each of 800&500 flour. The bread was very soft inside just like wonder bread but boy was the crust firm. My dough was very elastic, so I had to really push it into the corners.[/QUOTE]

can you post your results when your finished and tell us which one you liked best. by the way, the bread tasted great when i made a rueben today. kinda masked that taste you are talking about. i was so greatful to have bread again, i haven't minded the taste. i think i will try the vanill tho!
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:54 PM   #166
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I think i will use all half and half next time, and no water, use butter instead of olive oil and add 1 tsp vanilla, 1/2 cup each of 800&500 flour. The bread was very soft inside just like wonder bread but boy was the crust firm. My dough was very elastic, so I had to really push it into the corners.
can you post your results when you are finished and tell us which one you liked best? by the way, the bread tasted great when i made a rueben today. kinda masked that taste you are talking about. i was so greatful to have bread again, i haven't minded the taste. i think i will try the vanilla tho![/QUOTE]

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Old 12-21-2006, 07:40 PM   #167
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can you post your results when you are finished and tell us which one you liked best? by the way, the bread tasted great when i made a rueben today. kinda masked that taste you are talking about. i was so greatful to have bread again, i haven't minded the taste. i think i will try the vanilla tho!
[/QUOTE]


Yes I will, but it won't be for a week or so, I gotta finish eating this loaf first. I made a grilled cheese sandwich today and faux tomato soup for dinner, yummy.
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Old 12-22-2006, 11:52 AM   #168
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Tater Head,
No I didn't use the food processor--I used my bread machine for the mixing/kneading. You mentioned "pushing it down into the corners"--I just kinda shape into a basic loaf shape (mainly just so the it's smooth on top, nothing fancy), put it in the loaf pan, flatten it with my hands some and let it go--it's never covering the bottom of the pan fully but it expands when rising so that's not a problem.

On other recipes (like yeast rolls) I use Hood milk for a soft crust and butter for the fat. I also use alot less wpi8000 (and more wpi5000 and more wheat resistant starch) but I was surprised this wasn't real "chewy" with as much wpi 8000 as it has in it. If you have it, more wheat resistant starch will help with the "taste". I've made alot of different iterations of rolls/buns and while some are better than others they all turned out pretty good so I think this is an area tweakers can have fun--seems to be pretty forgiving.
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Old 12-22-2006, 12:06 PM   #169
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Jackie, you are right this bread is very forgiving and making in the food processor is so easy. I am sitting here eating a salmon salad sandwich with lettuce and tomato, yummy. I need to look for taller loaf pan too because my loaf rose and rose and rose . I was looking through my bread maker machine recipes and most of them call for all milk and butter, maybe it's because like you said softer crust. the crust today is just right though, all I did was slice the whole loaf and put those slices 2 each in baggies, let one bag sit out to come to room temp for my lunch, it is just like store bought egg btead. It still has that off taste, but I can work that with the next batch. I'm a tweaker, but I ALWAYS make any new recipe as written the first time. I really want to try those hotdog rolls you made next, but I need to get the taste of the dough just right first.

Thanks Kevin for this recipe


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Old 12-23-2006, 05:45 PM   #170
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i am so sorry for posting the same thing 4 times, i have no idea how that happend. sorry!!!
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Old 01-03-2007, 06:05 PM   #171
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More Bread Adventures

Did two more recipes of the Simple White Bread this past week. Here's what happened:

1) Subbed 1/4 (one quarter) cup of regular all-purpose flour for same amount of Carbalose. Shaped dough into eight balls and baked in my new hamburger bun pan. I'm a technical ignoramus so I don't take digital pictures, but the buns were lovely. I'd say the bun pan is worth the splurge. DH and I thought the small amount of regular flour made a noticeable difference. Yes, this upped the carb count to about 7 per bun, which I think is still awfully good for a nice hamburger bun.

2) I used to make sourdough bread and European-style sponge-based breads in my HC baking days and wondered what would happen if the sponge method were applied to Carbalose. I was hoping to improve the taste since I seem to be one of those people who gets a weird aftertaste from it. I dissolved a teaspoon of yeast in three-quarters cup of warm water and added three-quarters of a cup of Carbalose. It sat at room temp for about four hours and then in the fridge overnight. I continued with the recipe in the morning, dissolving one and one-quarter teaspoons yeast in a quarter cup of warm water and adding the rest of the ingredients. I let it rise as usual and baked. The texture of the baked bread was not significantly different from the original recipe, but I thought there was a bit less of the Carbalose taste - but not really enough to justify the extra steps and time. Still, I'd like to do more experimenting with the sponge method and LC ingredients.

I read on Jena Marie's site that the sourdough fermentation process reduces overall carbs of regular flour, much as the fermentation process of yogurt making reduces the available carbs in milk. Does anyone out there (Scott? Kevin?)have more technical information on fermentation's effect on flour carbs?

Ginny
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Old 01-03-2007, 06:39 PM   #172
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Ginny, what you did sounds interesting, keep us posted.

I am thinking of adding in 1/4 cup white flour also. I have made 2 batches now of the carbolose recipe, and I still can't get past that off taste from the carbolose. I really tweaked the second batch too. The texture of Kevin's recipe is dead on to real bread too. When you make grilled cheese sands and such I have no problems with the taste. It's when you eat a plain sandwich that that the taste comes through loud and clear. I think adding just a small amount of white flour should do the trick.

My tweaks were, I upped the 1 tsp sugar to 1 Tbsp, I lowered the Arise 800 from 3/4 cup to 1/2 cup , I upped the Arise 500 from 3/4 cup to 1 cup, I used butter instead of olive oil, I upped the cream from 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup, plus I added in 1 tsp vanilla everybody says to mask the taste and I can still taste that off taste from the carbolose, and maybe the 800 and 500 flours too I don't bake breads, so i have no clue of how to get rid of that off taste.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:56 PM   #173
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When you make grilled cheese sands and such I have no problems with the taste. It's when you eat a plain sandwich that that the taste comes through loud and clear.
I haven't made the bread yet, but I hope to this weekend. In another thread, Masking taste of Carbquik, Scott123 mentioned adding additional butter to mask the "off taste" of Carbquik. If I understand it correctly, Carbquik is mostly Carbalose, so if you grilled your cheese sandwiches in butter, perhaps that was what masked the "off taste."

Anyway, just a suggestion. I do not pretend to be qualified or talented as a LC baker. I'm still on a very steep learning curve! Truly a mere "babe in the woods" compared to the many wonderfully experienced members here!
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Old 01-04-2007, 06:35 AM   #174
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[QUOTE=Kisal;7941120, Scott123 mentioned adding additional butter to mask the "off taste" of Carbquik. If I understand it correctly, Carbquik is mostly Carbalose, so if you grilled your cheese sandwiches in butter, perhaps that was what masked the "off taste."

/QUOTE]

I think Scott was talking about adding butter into the dough, but even doing that didn't mask the off taste. I do agree that grilling the cheese sandwich in butter did help mask it though.
Tuna melts are wonderful also with this bread. BUT! I want a plain ol cold turkey sandwich, <wine>
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:32 AM   #175
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Ok guys, I am going to introduce a couple of [COLOR="DarkRed"]new players[/COLOR] to the game in hopes of getting rid of that taste for you.

Same basic directions.
The following is the ingredients I used:

* 3/4 cup warm water
* 1/4 cup heavy cream
* 2 large eggs
* 1 Tbsp. olive oil
* 1/2 Tsp. salt
* 1/2 + 1/8 cup wheat protein isolate 8000
* 3/4 cup Carbalose
* 1/2 + 1/8 cup wheat protein isolate 5000
* 1/4 cup Resistant Wheat Starch 75
[COLOR="DarkRed"]* 1/2 cup almond flour
* 1/8 cup wheat bran
[/COLOR]
* 2 Tsp. baking powder
* 1 Tsp. sugar
* 1 packet rapid rise yeast


The rise was double but not as high.
Texture and taste are both very nice.

Let me know what you think.









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Old 01-04-2007, 09:25 AM   #176
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What a sweetheart you are Kevin, that looks good, I'll try it after this loaf I just made is gone. Thank you
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:09 AM   #177
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Thanks, Kevin

Hmmm....when this loaf is gone, I'll be doing some more experimenting, too. I like the idea of the bran in there and it might just mask the taste of Carbquik/Carbalose for me. DH has no problem with this taste; he thinks my tastebuds might just be a little weird.... I'm surprised that much almond flour isn't affecting the texture more. Everytime I've used it, I get more of a pound-cake denseness...which is fine in pound-cake but not what I want in a yeast bread. I'll still be fooling around with the semi-sourdough sponge ideas. And, if anybody else out there runs across info on fermentation's effect on wheat carbs, please post. I remember that years ago, yogurt was pretty much off-limits on the LC WOE before it was discovered that the milk sugars were significanatly reduced during the culturing process.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:32 PM   #178
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ack!!! kevin, i hope you are here. i am in the middle of making the new version of the bread. i have added everything, and now have a very moist, almost cake-like batter. was your bread mixture anything like that? i was able to pick up the orig bread and place it in the pan. looks like i have to scoop this mixture into it. any ideas? also, how many carbs do you think this revised recipe has? thanks a bunch, keep up the good work!
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:11 PM   #179
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ack!!! kevin, i hope you are here. i am in the middle of making the new version of the bread. i have added everything, and now have a very moist, almost cake-like batter. was your bread mixture anything like that? i was able to pick up the orig bread and place it in the pan. looks like i have to scoop this mixture into it. any ideas? also, how many carbs do you think this revised recipe has? thanks a bunch, keep up the good work!
It was very sticky but not cake-like. Do you mean it is thin? Maybe you need to knead it longer.

The carb count is almost exactly the same as the original 32 or 33 carbs for the loaf.

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Old 01-04-2007, 03:41 PM   #180
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could not just pick up out of the bowl, i had to scoop the mixture into the bread pan. it is, however, raising nicely on the stove. maybe i forgot to add one of the flours, don't think i did that tho. oh well, we will see what happends. thanks for responding!
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